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I fully expect to see us hit that position group hardcore the same way we hit others this past offseason, so I would not be surprised at all to see us hit it in Free Age½cy/Trade as well as high in the Draft. It really is the only group remaining that needs a complete makeover. The rest just need tweaks and the beginnings of reloading.
I doubt that they'll see it this way, but I expect them to treat RT the same way... no more band-aids or injury prone veterans; bring in a solid keeper.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Not all of us pimped him. I tried to make this exact arguement last year but not a lot of people were open to it.
Exactly..it alarms me a lot when the Browns select a player (high in the draft)from a team I watch a lot but know nothing about or hardly noticed during those games..
it's interesting every year some of us try to tell the majority who really isn't that good of a pick,but they want to accept what the FO does..then they see these guys bust and then complain..not talking about Purp,but a lot of others do this.
I read a blurp off PFW that said As Holmgren noted Tuesday, offensive coordinator Brian Daboll's scheme works the middle of the field more than the edges. And it is generally a conservative passing game, too. The Browns' three leading receivers are a tight end (Benjamin Watson), a running back (Peyton Hillis) and a receiver best in the slot (Chansi Stuckey).
That said, the clock is ticking on Massaquoi and Robiskie to show more than they have. More opportunities would help, certainly; Robiskie is getting 3.6 targets per game, according to the NFL's official game summaries, with Massaquoi getting 3.5 passes thrown his way on average. By contrast, Watson (6.6 targets), Hillis (4.9), Chansi Stuckey (4.4) and Cribbs (3.7) have all been thrown to more frequently.
It's a small sample size, and how the teams have defended the Browns, as well as Cleveland's game plan in a given week, certainly must be taken into account when looking at these numbers, too. Also, Massaquoi missed most of the second half at Pittsburgh with a concussion (as did Cribbs) when QB Colt McCoy attempted 23 passes. Finally, Massaquoi and Robiskie had a combined 10 targets in the season opener vs. Tampa Bay when QB Jake Delhomme played a full game, and he has played only a full half since.
This could be a week to get the wideouts more involved. The Patriots are surrendering 282.4 net passing yards per game and are allowing opponents to complete 69.8 percent of their passes. With an extra week of preparation and an opponent with a shaky secondary, perhaps the Browns give their wideouts more chances. For Robiskie and Massaquoi, both second-round picks in 2009, maximizing those opportunities will be key."
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/05/10 08:51 AM.
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They picked up Roth on November 26th. Good or bad, Roth was Mangini's move.
Yeah, Mangini's bad coaching move....we only got Roth because we managed to lose to DET (up by 2?3? scores?...I guess they failed to "execute" again in the 2nd half  )...we were the worst team in the NFL after that game and had #1 on the waiver claim, DET was #2 because they "beat" us...they also had a claim on him...it was reported back then
Fool's gold...well, at least he claimed him...I remember I started a thread screaming to claim the guy
regarding Massa: Say what? Slowly folks on here start to realize what I said back when we drafted this tease....both Robo and Massa were underachievers at big Colleges with no superior WR traits (and MAssa had Stafford throwing to him)...drafting 1 of them in the 2nd would have been stupid enough...both? My god...they were basically 2 "projects" with little "ceiling" talent...when you overdraft projects at least make sure the ceiling is there....that's why I was "more ok" with overdrafting Veikune than those 2 hacks (even though not liking it)....at least the guy had projectability...with Robo and Massa we "hoped" one day they'd become our Austin Collie....so, why didn't we draft Collie to begin with? Oh yeah, he was productive in College, has sure hands and knows route running...there's simply no room to outsmart anyone in the league about him 
The Colts always do the obvious stuff on draft day, limiting their outsmarting moves....they draft good, productive College performers...esp. at WR...like B.White this season...can't believe he went undrafted, he was on their PS (Colts have great WR depth)...why didn't we sign this guy at least then? Guys like him or Collie aren't playmakers (and we need one) but we have nothing, we don't even have reliable poss-WR like them...these kind of guys are there every draft in the late rounds...just take them or sign them as UDFA, guys like Welker or Bess or Amendola or Lance Moore (we had him in TC back then) or Blair White....they are there every year
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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unbelieveable... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Time for me to get things cooking in here since I won't be in here till Monday..oh wait,we already heard these comments when MH first came here..except the part bout the screaming in the booth..well it matches the screaming in the living rooms in Ohio..  http://profootballtalk.nbcspor...to-coach-again/
Holmgren sounds like a guy who wants to coach again
Posted by Mike Florio on November 4, 2010 1:30 PM ET
As the Browns prepare to play the Patriots this weekend, coach Eric Mangini has to worry not only about his former boss but also his current one.
Browns president Mike Holmgren, who had kept a low profile for much of the season, suddenly has gotten chatty. He held a press conference earlier this week, during which he declined to close the door on returning to the sidelines.
"If I keep wearing a suit or not," Holmgren said, "we'll see."
Earlier today, Holmgren appeared on The Dan Patrick Show, and the former Packers and Seahawks coach continued to send out clues regarding a possible return.
"I don't know," Holmgren said as to whether he'll return to coaching. "I'm not evading anything. I don't know. . . . One of the challenges for me is just watching the game. I'm in the box and I'm with some other guys and I'm ranting and raving and jumping around and it's a challenge for me. It's new for me."
As to the desire to be on the sidelines, Holmgren said, "I don't know if it ever leaves you."
It sounds like a huge factor in the decision-making process will be his wife, Kathy, who apparently would remind the Big Show of the big problems that coaching in the NFL creates.
Patrick eventually said he thinks Holmgren will coach again. "You do?" Holmgren said, possibly not clear what to say once Dan shot an arrow into the heart of the matter -- and struck the bull's-eye. "Well, you know maybe we can talk about it if it happens next year."
Later, Holmgren added, "We'll see."
Indeed we will. And Mangini is going to be one of the folks monitoring the situation most carefully.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/05/10 10:07 AM.
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Transcript from the show itself. Hate to say it but profootballtalk is making some of their story up Attach.... Or at least from what I get from the transcrpit I read anyway???? Quote:
Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren joined the show to talk about his season and more.
Dan asked who the best quarterback on the team was. Holmgren said he set it up before the season to be 1) Jake Delhomme, 2) Seneca Wallace, 3) Colt McCoy.
"If everyone's healthy, I would do it the way I set it up originally," Holmgren said.
Holmgren said that he is impressed with McCoy's poise. "It's not too big for him," Holmgren said. "I kind of check that off my list."
Holmgren also discusses the difference between a passer and a thrower. He said that Favre is a passer who gets in trouble when he becomes a thrower and thinks he can make the kind of impossible plays he's made countless times. Holmgren said Favre still has something left.
"It doesn't appear that he's lost any zip off the fast ball," Holmgren said. "You have to have a good group of receivers, because it's on you quickly."
Dan asked Holmgren if he would ever coach again. Holmgren said that it's hard for him not to be a coach. "It's a challenge for me," Holmgren said. "It's new for me. It's this hopeless feeling. Before I could control something or change something on Sunday. Now I can't."
Holmgren said that he's not sure his wife wants him to go back to the sideline.
Holmgren said he didn't want to put a claim in on Randy Moss because they want to develop their receivers. Holmgren said that teams have to be careful with Moss. "He's a thoroughbred and you have to treat thoroughbreds just a little bit differently," Holmgren said.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...x.html#ixzz14PlPRyfI
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
Thats what I got from the entire transcript nothing about DP asking/telling Holmgren he thought he would return to coaching, nothing. I'll have to listen to be dead certain but I don't think they would have left that out of their transcript.. DO YOU?
BTTB
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He did not rule out coaching again, in fact I think the deciding factor if Holmgren dons the headset again or not will be if he can get his wife to go along with it...I think him and his wife started these discussions a few weeks ago...
I said when we hired Holmgren that he would not be able to help humself, and he would have a hardtime overcoming watching someone like Mangini and being powerless to call any plays, make adjustments, etc..the fact Mangini is using the conservative system he uses is the Anti-Holmgren the whole way.
...I think Holmgren is telling Eric "Either you start winning or im taking your job next year" that is what Mike is saying...
I see things shaking out like this UNLESS Mangini starts winning
1. Brad Weidmar, the guy who came over from Miami, he will get promoted or his duties changed to something like Executive Vice President of Team Operations and he will do ALL the marketing, non-football related nonsense and will report directly to learner himself.
2. Holmgren will assume the role of Head Coach and President of Football Operations, he will work with Heckert and will do nothing but coach and pretty much go along with whoever Heckert wants to draft...Mike will have input like Reid.
3. Heckert will continue to do what he does right now with no change...Holmgren will be glad to let the GM he picked make 95% of the draft picks..Holmgren will probably agree with all of Heckerts choices anyways(like the last draft) and let Heckert do his job...Holmgren may want one late rd QB a year...other then that, its Heckerts show in that regard.
If Mangini doesn't turn things around, thats how I see things shaking out...we have the people in place in the office Mike can delegate a ton of his Pres duties too and allow them to repoprt the business/marketing side of the nonsense to Lerner on his own, freeing up Mike to Coach and work with Heckert on the draft.
Mike is a coach though and though, and he is impatient,and by golly if he thinks he can do a better job at coaching he will
ever heard the age old adage "If you want something done right you have to do it yourself"?
I think thats what Mike is beginning to feel here...
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Quote:
I read a blurp off PFW that said As Holmgren noted Tuesday, offensive coordinator Brian Daboll's scheme works the middle of the field more than the edges.
Which is unfortunate, but understandable. We lost our first two games on quick outs.
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Greg Salas is another big time value in the mid to later rounds.
Salas is only 2nd in the nation with 133 yards per game.
Salas is a sure handed
'Possession' slot receiver.
Back to the thread.....
Saying we are 'Okay' @ WR is incorrect, even with political correctness.
No you never want to throw young players who still have time to develop under the bus, but I think that sends the wrong message to the guys who need to work harder at their trade.
I am not ready to throw in the towel in on MoMass, but I am also not going to treat his situation with kid gloves either.
He has been given an opportunity, by default or otherwise and I think he has not taken advantage of it.
If I'm the QB I'm going to throw the ball to who is open.
Some folks like to say the QB needs to sometime throw into coverage and let the WR make a play.
That's all well and good if your WR is Jerry Rice or Larry Fitzgerald.
But no it's all the Coach's fault, because they haven't been used enough
Pee U.
Fyi, the WCO in it's Original form has been around for a long time and most defensive coordinators around the league have figured out how to defend it.
This is why I think the current staff does not want to run a re-run offense.
Call it a conservative offensive philosophy, but don't say that it's a conservative 'passing offense', because we do run 8 and 9 routs.
I tell my kids, that when opportunity knox, answer the door.
MoMass and Robo need to answer the door, before mr opportunity walks down the road.
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Quote:
...I think Holmgren is telling Eric "Either you start winning or im taking your job next year" that is what Mike is saying...
 
You know knight, being all honest right now I seldom actually bust out laughing at anything, but this made me laugh thanks, really thanks... In fact your entire post made me laugh honest. Tanks again……………….LMAO
Look Mike is way smarter about these matters he knows what Mangini is up against. I think my perspective is much more realistic then yours for obvious reason. Just the fact that Mangini is still here pretty much says that's so, even you have to admit that much...
But what really made me laugh was you went from Holmgren getting his guy over Mangini to Mike taking control himself, it's laughable, really it is and it speaks volumes to how hate filled you are towards Mangini.
What Mike has said repeatedly is he has to find the Browns "the GUY", and whether you want to hear that message or not I think he is speaking volumes about what he thinks will make the real difference on this team. And hey that comes before even the coach. I have to say I agree 1000%.
But you still haven’t gotten over the idea that at some point coaching takes a back seat to talent, and it does. Coaches coach players play and there is a point where the players have to deliver the goods. Mike gets that part he understands how hard this staff is working and he also understands the odds their up against with the talent they have at their disposal. Oh yeah sure in your word it’s all about W-L but Mike doesn’t share that with you and has said so. But you skip right over that and continue down the win or I’m taking your job now. Last week it was win or Mike will replace you with his guy. Sorry but it truly is laughable.
But you and some members of the media skip right on by that little tiny detail and focus on him stating the obvious. I say obvious because it is. The guy was the HC of an NFL team for what 20 years and now on Sunday he has to be just a fan. I would think that would be tuff for anyone given Mikes background. That hardly means he is ready to throw Mangini to the curb, what it really means is he is human.
I will say this Knight your creative, and that’s where it ends. You have drafted so many scenarios around Mangini being sent packing that you are blind to the improved play of the team overall in every single stat category and they are improving from week to week against arguably the toughest schedule I remember them having in a long time. That speaks volumes to how good a job Mangini has done.
I think this entire conversation is premature just like Mike does. I think he knows just like me that this is going to end way different then it started. You replace half the starters on defense and you replace your entire QB core and you know going in that your going to lose some games (especially with this schedule) and that as you go along you look for improvement and competitiveness from there you look to move to the winning side of the ledger. That is the positives that you can take from this season so far. I’m positive Mike gets that part, sadly you don’t so you come up with these wild dreams that wouldn’t improve the team, and if I was to bet you can count on them setting this team back another 3 years. No Thanks I like what I see enough to this juncture that I want to see more. And no not more losing but seeing if we can get that bad throw that cost us the game under control or that stupid penalty that cost us at a critical moment under control, and yes win games without a franchise QB. And believe me that is really hard to do in today’s NFL.
As is we are not quite past the half way point I would recommend that you hold your opinions about what will happen until the season is over. Right now if I had to make a prediction based on the play of this team to this point in the season it would be they are close, very close to turning the corner. And whether you admit it or not their a lot closer to turning the corner then they are to continuing to lose close games.
Just an idea though Knight you need to stop dreaming about the end and enjoy what’s left of this season before you start warming up any buses and running folks over. I would hope you’re enough of a Browns fan to want to see this team win, and hey they just might and that would be my bet.
JMHO
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I think Mike enjoys playing owner to much to ever go back into coaching. Full authority over an organization, man talk about a dream job for anyone. Now Mike believes in his offensive philosophy and that is where I do see the trouble brewing.
I believe Mangini could stay but Holmgren and Heckert made their careers by building west coast systems. Hell the QB they just drafted comes with the label of being a west coast quarterback.
Change will be coming but I am not certain that the change will be of the head coach variety.
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Change will be coming but I am not certain that the change will be of the head coach variety.
agreed. I see Daboll in jeapordy, but not gone for sure. If a WCO is in our future, , that might tip the balance, and he'd be out. If the new smashmouth style yields good results, I think Holmy is flexible enough to stick with what's working... and Daboll might stay.
At this point, it's really just too early to know.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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According to BB we already run a WCO......
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LOL... yeah, we're chuckin' the ball all over the place these days. Sure LOOKS like a WCO gameplan. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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LOL... yeah, we're chuckin' the ball all over the place these days. Sure LOOKS like a WaCO gameplan.
Fixed it for ya...
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Hey Brown answer this then: Quote:
Mike Holmgren said:
According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, Holmgren said more than once Tuesday he hasn't ruled out a return to coaching.
He plans to fulfill his promise to owner Randy Lerner to turn this around in Cleveland.
"If I keep wearing a suit or not, we'll see," Holmgren said.
Now WHY would Holmgren say something like this when he has a Head coach (Eric Mangini) in place.
WHY would mike Holmgren purposely throw his HC under the bus like this in front of the media if the guy seriously doesn't want to coach?
you NEVER heard Bill Parcells say anything like this about Sprano in miami
WHY would Holmgren say this? If he isn't intrested in coming back then why would he throw his HC under the bus like this? why would he keep flat out hinting in the media he wants to coach?
you think he is going to coach elsewhere? He signed a 5 year deal here...he is NOT getting any younger....
please tell me...why would holmgren throw Mangini under the bus like this in front of media pretty much saying he is eying his HC job? what productive end does this possibly have for Eric? why would he say this?
please I want to hear your rationalization...holmgren wants to coach again...He has said cleveland is his last stop in the NFL..he will not go back to coaching after a 5 year stint here...he will be out of time...the guy is getting old...he knows this is his last shot to do what he loves(coaching)
The very fact he mentioned his wife...is telling...it tells me he is talking to his wife about returning to the sideline...why else would he bring it up?
Holmgren is using this as backup plan..if Eric don't work out this year...with his wife's blessing mike is taking over
ui think this was the plan all along when he signed up here...I think he agreed with Randy to give Eric a chance however Holmgren made it a stipulation that if Eric can't cut it to his satisfaction that Holmgren can coach....Randy Lerner said when he hired Holmgren, he can GM, Pres, coach or all 3...
this was a "feel it out" year for holmgren..he really had no idea if he could see eye to eye or be content with how Eric runs things...he had no idea...now that mike is begginning to see GLARINg differences in how he would run things compared to how they are...mike is begginning to lean in the direction that he doesn't like it....it works because he gets his last chance.
outside of Eric getting a .500 record or close...I think mike with his wife's blessing wants to take over
there is no reason for him to make these statements to the media and throwing Mangini under the bus unless its what he is thinking
"if I keep wearing a suit or not, we'll see" there is NO REASON for him to say that unless he is eyeing Eric's job..no reason...we have him under a 5 year deal..he can't coach elsewhere
it is what it is.
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I want to hear the stretch of imagination that translated this to mean next year or the next year? That it would be in the next five years? That it would be here? Anyone can take an off the cuff statement and twist it any way they want to. See your above post as a prime example. All he said is it's quite a transition from being a HC into office personnel. All coaches miss coaching and think of being on the sideline again. So you go ahead and spin this to suit you. I've read you enough to know you will with or without my blessings.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Knight, Knight Knight you poor poor boy. Holmgren said in an earlier press conference that he wore a suit to remind himself that he wasn't the coach anymore. Now he says he may give up the suit to watch the games... So the question really is SO WHAT? But keep it going Knight go to bed tonight sleep well and tell us all about it in the mourning..............  BTTB
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I watched the presser a couple days ago and didn't get the same impression about that comment or those comments. IIRC it was more along the lines of, Holmgren kept getting asked if he would consider a return to coaching, and he'd give a bunch of diplomatic, non-answers that would keep his options open without it appearing that he was being dishonest. Then they kept pressing and that comment came out and it really seems out of context.
Now I'll admit that I think there's a small but realistic chance that he'll be our next HC but that's just a hunch.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren Press Conference today...
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