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Can't we just say that he had a great game and leave it at that?




That's what a lot of us are saying. Some of us just have differing opinions on what he is and what he can be. Just because we all have differing opinions doesn't mean any of us are right or even wrong.

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Buzz Killer




That may very well be true, and I think that's part of the issue here, but can you at least agree that what I said is fair?

Also, just one more thing I want to add. Here in Cleveland, I think that we Browns fans have gotten so used to seeing a QB lose games for us, that we have somewhat forgotten what a franchise quarterback really is. I've seen some people praise Colt for not losing the game for us. That's great, and definitely progress, but it's not a franchise quarterback. A franchise QB is a guy who wins you games, not one who just keeps you from losing them. I'm not saying Colt will be that guy, but I'm not saying he won't be either.

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You think Hillis is going to consistently have 180 rushing yards and over 6 yards per carry? I kind of doubt that happens.





what rb does?

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The throws to Watson and Cribbs downfield were quite awful. Both had too much air under them and didn't give the receiver a chance.

Both guys slowed up when if they continue to run their route its an easy TD. I loved both passes.

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I admit I only saw each play once, but I didn't see that. Additionally, IIRC both passes had too much air under them. It's something he needs to work on.

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I haven't anointed McCoy, but what do you really expect Deep?

What rookie QB doesn't generally throw to his main read? What rookie QB that's successful doesn't spend most of their time handing the ball off? That's all Big Ben did his rookie year, look what he developed into.

What I like the most about McCoy is that he can manage the game at the LOS. He can make audibles and read the blitzes. Very few rookie QBs do that.

While his deep game leaves you wanting more, that can be improved. Drew Brees improved his deep passing throughout his NFL career.

And either way, intelligence with the football is the most important thing for me. May be that's because I watched more Jets games than Browns games a few years ago, and Chad Pennington was my favorite QB.

But that's why I like Seneca Wallace too. Intelligence, don't turn the ball over, engineer a drive and work the ball down the field. I mean, I think he's thrown like 1 interception in 3 games, that's pretty impressive for a rookie.

But yeah, I get a better feeling with McCoy than I did with Quinn, Anderson, and Frye. So far he's played very smart (managing at the LOS and during the play), doesn't check down as much as Quinn (and is much more accurate), and isn't a bonehead inconsistent QB like DA always has been. And his throwing ability is much better than Charlie Frye

He will never sling the ball deep like Brett Favre, but he has a quick release, great awareness of what's going on around him, and I think he really wants to be the best QB he can. The team's gotten behind him, and he's really become a leader on this offense; while also being a rookie.


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I think that's a very fair, and accurate assessment. All I really want is for people not to make all these amazing comparisons after three games. I realize that most people aren't doing that, and I don't have an issue with those people.

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I think you over analyze every thing. You can use the same critique on about any QB in any game. For God's sake look at Brady today. He was throwing some pitiful looking balls.

My point is he is playing well within the scheme. This team is being built not around one player be it the QB or anybody else. Just because you are some kind of psuedo scout, you seem to come across as a wannabe know-it-all. You have some knowledge, but your opinion is no better than anybody elses. Talking down to those who see good in McCoy will never make you look like the talent evaluator you seem to think you are.

The kid did more than manage the game today. If you can't see that, I don't want you scouting for my team


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I think you're overanalyzing what I've said. All I have said is that we shouldn't jump the gun on him because he performed well today with a great run game. I've said multiple times that he did everything that was asked of him and more. He did do a little more than manage the game today; I will concede that. He didn't have to do more than manage the game today, which is part of my point. We don't know what he can do. If he is the guy, he has to be able to be the focal point of the offense. That's what we don't know yet, and until we do, no one can say that he is or isn't "The Guy".

And Brady was actually quite awful today. Colt was quite a bit better.

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People just get excited when the Browns win man. I think you can fairly compare players. When I watch Ryan Mallet throw a deep dart, I might say "Man, he looks like Brett Favre out there" But that doesn't mean that Ryan Mallet is Brett Favre.

It's the same thing with McCoy. People are excited that the rookie QB doesn't make bonehead mistakes and seems to make accurate throws. These are traits the Kosar had, it doesn't mean that he's as good as Kosar, it's just comparing strengths.

But yeah, what it comes down to is that the offense is beyond McCoy, he plays smart football, and he has handled the pressure. He doesn't look like a fish out of water at all.

When you watched Mark Sanchez last year, he made tons of mistakes. Matt Ryan, his rookie year, was even more one dimensional than Colt. He didn't go through reads, and he only worked with the right side of the field. McCoy is playing top defenses and I'm not terrified when he throws the ball. That's the way I have felt this year about Jake Delhomme, and it's how I used to feel with Derrick Anderson (terrified).

It might not be your style of football, but the Browns just won two in a row against the defending superbowl champions and a team that was 6-1. While you might want a QB that wins us games, that's a lot to put on a rookie, instead, the way I see it, he gives our guys a chance to win these games; and he does it by not screwing up.

(and also by being the man at the LOS and calling audibles and reading the blitzes and coverage pre-snap. While he doesn't go through a ton of reads, he seems to know who is going to be open based on matchups and what the defense is showing. This shows great preparation, and a great feel for the position)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I kind of wish we could play the St. Louis Rams and shutdown those Sam Bradford lovers out there. Boomer Esiason was hyping up Bradford on his radio show last week, we'll see what he and his partner have to say about Colt McCoy.

I might even have to call in and tell them to "Come get some" because the Cleveland Browns bring it every week (this is true, we have played better than our record made us out to be) and it seems like we finally have clicked and found ourselves.<<<<<<<<<<< Boomer and Carton are Jets fans, and despite what many people think about Boomer on TV, they're a great radio pair.

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And that's fair. The only thing I don't like is conclusively stating something about a player whom we really know very little about. I overreacted to those few individuals, and for that, I apologize. I also probably came off as an arrogant .... Again, I apologize for that.

Also, Sanchez is not good. He was overhyped last year, and he is showing it this season. Ryan is good, but not incredible. Oh, and Bradford is going to be the best quarterback ever.

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His deep pass is very reminiscent of Kelly Holcomb with the way he loft's it down there with very good accuracy. The receivers must develop that timing. I know its asking a lot because of working so much with wallace who can really gun that ball down there on a rope but Stuckey, Cribbs and Watson all made bad reads on passes that hurt.

I am really impressed with this kid overall. Accuracy, mobility and command of the offense is impressive for anyone but especially for a rookie. If he wants it he is simply going to have to outwork everyone else. He doesnt have the arm so he better make it up with everything else.

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His deep pass is very reminiscent of Kelly Holcomb with the way he loft's it down there with very good accuracy. The receivers must develop that timing. I know its asking a lot because of working so much with wallace who can really gun that ball down there on a rope but Stuckey, Cribbs and Watson all made bad reads on passes that hurt.

I am really impressed with this kid overall. Accuracy, mobility and command of the offense is impressive for anyone but especially for a rookie. If he wants it he is simply going to have to outwork everyone else. He doesnt have the arm so he better make it up with everything else.




Interesting comparison with Holcomb. Luckily, he doesn't telegraph as badly as Holcomb did, and he doesn't throw that long ball as much as Kelly Holcomb

But I was a Tim Couch fan...........


Although, I will say, while Seneca's deeper passes are faster, I don't think he's as accurate as McCoy on almost any level. What Seneca has going for him is his mind and ability to extend plays. (I call Seneca "the Tallest" Wallace a thinking man's QB) But McCoy seems to have those things going for him too, he just doesn't throw all his deep balls out of bounds.


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Also, Sanchez is not good. He was overhyped last year, and he is showing it this season. Ryan is good, but not incredible. Oh, and Bradford is going to be the best quarterback ever.




Sanchez is killing fools this year.

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That may very well be true, and I think that's part of the issue here, but can you at least agree that what I said is fair?





Kinda, but I think it's out of context. I mean, what are you judgeing against? What criteria?

It's seems silly and a waste of time to even come up with the slightest criticism of him after this game. he's a kid, having just played arguably the best team in football today and he managed an offense that, coupled with excellent D and ST, beat the dickens out of them.

So, Fairness aside, it's a silly argument. Like I said, you seem to be a guy hell bent on marginalizing this victory by finding meaningless (at this stage in his career anyway) things to pick on..

To me, it's nitpicky..


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Not at all true. I did not intend to nitpick, nor marginalize the win. I just had a problem with those proclaiming him the savior.

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Actually having re-read this thread and some of your posts, I don't think you were overly-critical, for the most part.
People just hate it when someone pees in the punchbowl during a great party. Which is what we are kinda having today.


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One thing I want to say on Colt that is so important. This team believes in Colt McCoy and they opened up a few things for him today and he came through so that confidence is only going to grow. I really havent seen that kind of confidence in a Browns QB in a couple decades.

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I think Mangini said two or three times in the post-game presser that he trusted Colt... which is saying a lot being a rookie... that fourth down play was just huge! To allow him to have that much responsibility is impressive for the kid.


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He has a total of two 100 yard games. In one of those games, he had one reception that went for 59 yards which tends to skew the results......and if he didn't go to Georgia you wouldn't be hanging onto his jock......

He sucks major ass. Whenever your number 1 guy (and he is SUPPOSED to be our number 1) seems to disappear on the field that is telling.





Maybe, after today, what we needed was for the right QB to develop some timing.. Momass had a couple nice grabs today, Cribbs laid out for a great catch and the throw and catch to Robo on the run was amazing... Overall this was the type of balanced offense we need.

I am still of the opinion that to take the next step we need a big time #1 threat but I think there is room on this team for MoMass, Cribbs, Stuckey.. not sold on Robo yet though..


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Hey DT,

I thought the same thing on some of Colts early throws.
Then I seen the same thing from Brady.

Then I remembered that they were playing in Cleveland stadium where the 'wind' can be a factor

Just a thought to remember Deep.

Who cares what the QB's stats are as long as we win.

Colts TD passes will come.
Of that I have no doubts.

Enjoy the moment, Lord knows we have all earned it.


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j/c

Colt reminds me a lot of Ben Roethlisberger his rookie year. Like Ben, McCoy has had the benefit of the running game to lean on, and has been put in a position to succeed. He reads the defense, protects the football and creates when necessary. He's "managing the game," but managing the game is SO much easier said than done for a young QB. (see: Clausen, Jimmy...and basically all of Mark Sanchez' games last year)

Of course, he's doing it without a Wines Hard or a Plaxico Burress to throw to, which makes McCoy's body of work all the more impressive.

I'm not all in yet on him being "the guy," but I AM all in on him being the guy for the rest of the season.

It's truly mind boggling to me how this is the same guy who I thought had no chance after seeing him play in the preseason.

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Just for fun.
Obviously it is very early in McCoy's career, but if I were to pick a Hall of Fame QB whose style Colt most resembles, it would be Joe Montana (not putting pressure on the kid, who has fewer NFL starts than Montana has Super Bowls) ): .
Good feet, accurate, intelligent... wins games.

What a great day to be a Browns fan.


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You think Hillis is going to consistently have 180 rushing yards and over 6 yards per carry? I kind of doubt that happens.





what rb does?

buzzkiller x2




I've got to go with Deep on this one. We should be happy at the good game he had today, but remain cautiously optimistic.

After the QB history we've had here since '99, there's a mountain of evidence pointed toward being cautiously optimistic.

We can all be ecstatic Colt McCoy won two in a row against Brees and Brady, and I am. I'm just waiting/hoping he continues to do well and improve.


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Not at all true. I did not intend to nitpick, nor marginalize the win. I just had a problem with those proclaiming him the savior.




Like it or not, you are though. Saying he didn't make any huge plays today is crazy. I think that TD run he had was huge. And what is so wrong with getting excited about a QB that is making plays?

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I admit I only saw each play once, but I didn't see that. Additionally, IIRC both passes had too much air under them. It's something he needs to work on.




Actually you should go back and watch those passes again. The first one was perfectly placed where only our guy could get it.
The second after watching the replay you could see that cribbs should have taken a couple more steps and he would have been in the endzone for a TD.
They are not used to a QB who can throw a sideline pass inbounds. It will take time.
Im drinking the cool-aid because the kid played against the top 3 teams in the NFL and didnt get creamed (which almost everyone said he would).
Also if you dont think the OC was listening to Holgrems pressers your crazy.
He knows you want a job you better start to move the ball through the air.

The rookie made 2 great reads to me today. The first was when rolled out passed it to Robo for a first instead of tucking it in and running for only a couple of yards the 2nd was when he tucked it in and ran for a TD.
Complete understanding of the game and whats going on around him.
The line is really stepping up their protection for him and the team believes in him.
While most people wanted to fire Mangini at the bye and were crying in their footloops because he managed to beat the Saints keeping MH in the lodges now we see that we have a coach that can win games and the Saints game was not a fluke.

Savage said that every team need a signature win that gets them over the hump. Colt now has 2. Welcome to the new era of the Browns Winning.


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McCoy is a playmaker at QB. It doesn't do him justice to just call him a "scrambler." The guy will kill you with his legs and is a tremendous athlete. And his accuracy, especially on the run, is something that's almost too unbelievable. What you saw today against the Patriots is something he did every game in college. He'll have some growing pains, but his level of intelligence, vision, maturity, and athleticism is something you don't see in rookie QBs.

Here's a link to his career highlights from University of Texas Football website when his number was retired. Some of the plays he makes are absolute jawdrappers. Outrunning an SEC secondary, picking up a fumbled ball then throwing a strike 20 yards the field while being chased, crazy Steve Young type TD runs. He's the all-time winningest QB in NCAA history. The guy is a leader and doesn't know how to lose.

http://www.texassports.com/allaccess/?media=205369

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Colt being equal to Kosar in intelligence is a bit of a leap. Kosar was one of the most intelligent players of all time. I think someone may of had too much happy juice.

Deep you are way off base to say Colt didnt make any plays today. He was 7-13 on 3rd and made some very good throws on the run to Robo and Cribbs. Had a nice throw over the middle for 20?? to MoMass. But you are right his deep passes. They seemed to hang a bit. Was it windy today like someone suggested?

I think the kids a winner and a natural leader. He showed it 4 years in college and its looked like the offense has confidence in him. I dont think anyone here will argue with that.

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It's truly mind boggling to me how this is the same guy who I thought had no chance after seeing him play in the preseason



Didn't he get better throughout the preseason though?

He had one game where he had like no incompletions I think.

May be he's just a "gamer" like Charlie Frye, hehe

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It's truly mind boggling to me how this is the same guy who I thought had no chance after seeing him play in the preseason



Didn't he get better throughout the preseason though?

He had one game where he had like no incompletions I think.

May be he's just a "gamer" like Charlie Frye, hehe




Never mention Colt and Chaz Frye in the same sentence ever again. :-P

I thought they were similar in the preseason though. Of course, I didn't know at the time that Colt was getting none of the snaps with the actual Browns offense during training camp and was only running scout team.

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Where he has come from family day to the game today is a testament to how hard this kid works. I really want to believe in this kid but I'm still cautious.

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Where he has come from family day to the game today is a testament to how hard this kid works. I really want to believe in this kid but I'm still cautious.




I think most are looking at this with some caution. As Browns fans you have to. But, you can't help to get a little excited at McCoy's play so far.

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I'm sure glad DP isn't a scout . . . btw that bomb to shippley was 50 yards in the air, you don't need much more arm than that. Dogging CM for not being good in the deep game is getting nitpicky.
By the standards some people put out there our franchise QB has to throw for 280 and 3 TD's every game to be a franchise QB . . . news flash: Brady and manning dont put up those numbers every game and they make mistakes, By DP's standards Brady was a bum today that should be benched.

Also, why is it so many people try to pick him apart? Not a good prospect? are you F%&ÎNG kidding!!!! he's only the best QB statisitcally in NCAA history. Because he can't launch a ball 90 yards in the air and isn't 6'5"? CM has what great QB's need in this league, leadership, accuracy, brains and work ethic. In reality the prototype QB's rarely work out for every 1 Peyton Manning, there are 10, jamarcus russell, Jeff George, Derek Andersons and Todd Maranivich's out there.


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Colt McCoy's stats (3 Games)

Passing:
46-68 (67.4%) 529 Yards - 1 TD - 2 INT's

Rushing:
12 Carries - 37 Yards - 1 TD

Record:
2-1

The thing that I'm happy with is his % completion.

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So far, this is what I am happy with:

He knows, and can control the offense at the line of scrimmage. The game is not too big for him.

He hits receivers in stride so they can gain yards after contact. In Frye's 1st full year he threw almost 400 passes and had 24 plays of 20+ yards. Last year, Quinn threw the ball 256 times and had only 12 plays of 20+ yards. McCoy has 10 in 68 attempts. Part is throwing longer patterns, but part is hitting the open receiver, in stride, and in a position to be able to run.

He takes care of the ball.

He moves the team. He has had 28 drives as the QB. (not counting kneel-downs) 15 of those are 6 plays or more. He's not going 3 and out all the time. Also, this has been against 3 pretty damn good defenses.

He has pocket awareness. He can move in the pocket without panic, and keeps his eyes downfield. He is also excellent at throwing on the run.

Overall, I am impressed with the kid. I hope that he can continue to develop, and I am convinced that the best place for that to happen is on the field.


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Totally agree. The stats will come.

The important thing so far is that he's passing the eyeball test, which is something Quinn never did even on his best day stats wise.

As others have mentioned, the vertical game has left something to be desired, but there's still plenty of time to develop that aspect of Colt's game. Furthermore, he hasn't been asked to throw downfield that much yet, so who's to say conclusively what he's capable of.


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Don't go that far. The offense is still pretty dumbed down for him at the moment. He's basically making one read and throwing it. Very few progressions of any sort.




Daboll said that they had some ridiculous number like 175 offensive plays in this week.

That's not "dumbed down" one bit.




He said 150.

That's not a lot....there can be 10 plays that are identical with the exception of a pulling guard or some other variance.

On a similar note though---I noticed he wasn't going through progressions that much but he WAS making audibles which is something we didn't have with Wallace.

Let the kid play.....hell, we are 3-5.

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Here is one of many old NFL playbooks available online that displays this:

http://fastandfuriousfootball.com/prooffense/1999_Miami_Dolphins_Offense_.pdf

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Colt McCoy's stats (3 Games)

Passing:
46-68 (67.4%) 529 Yards - 1 TD - 2 INT's

Rushing:
12 Carries - 37 Yards - 1 TD

Record:
2-1

The thing that I'm happy with is his % completion.




Call me a homer, but both of those interceptions were lucky bounces for the Steelers. . .

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Call me a homer, but both of those interceptions were lucky bounces for the Steelers. . .




I agree, one interception was off of Ben Watson's hands. While the pass wasn't the smartest one to make, it wasn't like he just threw it to the defender, it came off a deflection.

The other one was later in the game when we were behind trying to come back.

And it was his first game.............

I think Colt .45 has shown himself to be a very smart gunslinger baby


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