DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum NYT article on mangini

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BEREA, Ohio — Perhaps Eric Mangini reached his lowest point in January. He was eating too much, sleeping too little and wrestling with a chewing tobacco habit. His job as the Cleveland Browns’ coach was fraught with uncertainty.

He faced a daily barrage of criticism. His weight climbed to an embarrassing level, and he kept thinking that his father had died of a heart attack at 56. Even his old nickname, Mangenius, resurfaced to mock him.

“I’m telling you, it was as miserable as could be,” Mangini said. “It was like being on the treadmill, Level 15, every single day. So I decided, I’m going to change this.”

The new Eric Mangini will now take center stage in an N.F.L. version of “This Is Your Life.” On Sunday, his Browns host New England, with whom he won three Super Bowls as an assistant; a week later, they host the Jets, who fired him after the 2008 season.

Since January, everything has changed. Mangini, 39, weighs less than he did as a college senior at Wesleyan. With an overhauled roster, the Browns practice in a remodeled facility, for a reconfigured front office, for a man who lost all job titles except coach. Mangini remains meticulous and thorough, obsessive even, but seems, if not gentler, then more relaxed.

Mangini returned to his core principles, just coaching, as the same guy, he insisted, but more firm in his beliefs. His Jets tenure provided a painful lesson in what happened when he deviated.

He ignored his instincts when quarterback Brett Favre went on the trading block in August 2008. Favre was the kind of player Mangini wanted to avoid. He was a hired gun, a quick fix.

The Jets’ executives desperately wanted Favre. They assured Mangini that regardless of the outcome, his job was safe. So Mangini helped seal the trade, researching hunting in New Jersey, even giving his third son the middle name Brett.

Favre led the Jets to an 8-3 start but hurt his arm and tossed multiple interceptions as the team stumbled from contention. Mangini failed to disclose the injury properly, which later prompted a $25,000 fine.

The night the regular season ended, Mangini watched television on his couch, preparing for exit interviews, compiling an off-season checklist. General Manager Mike Tannenbaum called at 11:40 p.m., charged with the unpleasant task of firing one of his best friends.

Mangini kept returning to one thought: he had compromised, sold out.

“I get that someone had to pay,” Mangini said. “And it was me.”

After a week of unemployment, Mangini, to the shock of N.F.L. insiders, landed with the Browns. It made a cute story: disgraced coach receives second chance with the organization that once employed him as a ball boy.

After that first start with Cleveland, Mangini eventually followed Bill Belichick to New England, where he witnessed a Patriots dynasty built on character and his beloved core characteristics. From Belichick, he borrowed the stiff, paranoid manner that defined his time with the Jets.

He required players to take copious notes, and they still remember the rustling of notebooks opening as meetings started. (Tight end Dustin Keller said he scribbled more in one week than in half a semester at Purdue.)

Now, they choose their words carefully in regard to Mangini. On one hand, they described his brilliant football acumen, which produced two winning seasons in three years. On the other, they said that Mangini created an atmosphere of fear throughout the organization, that he ruled with the heaviest of hands, that he humiliated players and assistants. Draconian, one played called it.

“He was tough,” Keller said. “But if you ask, everyone would agree he’s by far the smartest coach any of us have been around. It was almost psychotic how much he knew.”

The Jets made Mangini the youngest coach in the N.F.L. in 2006, hiring him two days before he turned 35. Immediately, the jokes started: the Jets were the only team that needed a sandbox; he and Tannenbaum were the only N.F.L. executives who got birthday balloons.

Mangini described the experience as nerve-racking. He had conducted only one previous news conference. He had never drawn up a practice schedule or run an entire team. Looking back, his time with the Jets reminded him of parenting, in that he parroted his mentors (Belichick and Bill Parcells) and did not sufficiently speak in his own voice.

In his first season, Mangini made the playoffs and a cameo on “The Sopranos” (Artie Bucco: “Hey, Tone. You know who’s in tonight? Mangenius.”) Yet there he was last January, in Walt Disney World with his family on the weekend of the conference championships. The Jets played in the first game. Favre played in the second.

“That was the perfect ending to last year,” Mangini said. “How could it end any other way? That was my personal ‘Hard Knocks.’ ”

One afternoon last month, Mangini played tour guide at the Browns’ headquarters here. When he arrived in January 2009, he found dried banana peels on the floor, broken equipment, chairs stained with sweat, dark lighting and concrete walls. It felt like a prison. Mangini changed all that, conducting his first training camp amid construction.

His image problems followed him to Cleveland, magnified when he fined players for not paying for water bottles in hotel rooms, or when he sent his rookies on a 10-hour bus ride to Connecticut for his football camp. Players grumbled, and it seemed that instead of being humbled by his termination, Mangini had failed to change, that he was Belichick without the pedigree. But to Mangini, these incidents spoke instead to a lack of organizational respect.

“This place was a disaster,” said Rob Ryan, Mangini’s defensive coordinator, adding, “Vince Lombardi wasn’t going to come in here and win.”

Cleveland closed the 2009 season with four victories. But when the Browns hired Mike Holmgren as their president, he stripped Mangini of all front-office responsibility. Mangini did not prepare for their initial conversation. He believed, more firmly than ever, in his philosophy, the work accomplished.

Mangini’s touch is evident throughout the headquarters, in the lockers randomly assigned and the quotations lining the walls and the messages players pass on their way to practice (be on time, pay attention, work hard). This is the Mangini way.

Now, Mangini said, he hears more of his own voice.

“I’m going to do things the way that I feel they should be done,” he continued. “I’m going to rely on those experiences, but I’m going to be who I am, no exceptions.”

The core remains, but Mangini is significantly lighter in weight and in approach. He said that his first year here “wasn’t even in the same stratosphere of hard.”

He added, “But compared to what they were used to, it was ridiculously hard.”

Longtime confidants like his offensive coordinator, Brian Daboll, say the gap between Mangini’s private and public personas is closing. He seems more comfortable in meetings, less dry, more himself.

“He’s been more of the Eric I’ve known since 2000 in front of the group,” Daboll said. “Tells funny stories. Doesn’t rule with as hard an iron fist. He’s got a little bit more trust, and a little bit more experience, too.”

The Browns’ record, 2-5, remains dismal, and Mangini’s job is as tenuous as ever. He and Holmgren are schooled in two of the most successful coaching philosophies in league history, but Bill Walsh’s and Belichick’s are diametrically opposed.

Holmgren can empathize with Mangini. His lost his front-office duties in Seattle, and shortly after, in the 2005 season, the Seahawks advanced to their first Super Bowl. Mangini said Holmgren gave him advice on everything, including practice schedules and parenting. But that has not diminished Holmgren’s wish to return to coaching.

For all the changes — better roster, improved facility, four losses by an average of 5.5 points — football is zero sum. Mangini insisted it would be hypocritical to look toward the future and ask his players to focus on the next game, but victories more than progress will ultimately decide his fate.

Sometimes, Mangini worries about becoming like the “cleaner” character from the movie “Pulp Fiction,” fixing the salary cap and jettisoning problem players and instilling those core characteristics — for someone else to coach the team he built. For now, the new Eric Mangini moves forward, his future uncertain, his approach a life preserver in another season filled with turbulence.

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Good read dong, thanks. Makes you wonder what the hell Crennel and Phil during those four seasons.

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kicked a habit

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Pretty sure he had a jaw full of "chaw" when he ran out to shake Bellycheat's hand. Just saying.

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“This place was a disaster,” said Rob Ryan, Mangini’s defensive coordinator, adding, “Vince Lombardi wasn’t going to come in here and win.”

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Mangini bagging another former "friend" in Romeo to make himself look good...what else is new?

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"Now, Mangini said, he hears more of his own voice."

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The core remains, but Mangini is significantly lighter in weight and in approach. He said that his first year here “wasn’t even in the same stratosphere of hard.”

He added, “But compared to what they were used to, it was ridiculously hard.”

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and the "disaster" talk for sure was there between Ryan and EM, otherwise Ryan wouldn't have yapped it

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I guess I just don't like that he thinks he's the smartest thing since sliced bread...and since he often isn't, it makes him and our Browns look bad and I don't like that...that's what I mean with "outsmarting", often guys like that just aren't critical enough on themselves and take too long to adjust (see last and this year's start as proof, talking more "we" mode after losses and more "I" on wins...little stuff like that is pretty telling) ...I also dont like his constant preaching of his "Core characteristics" like "team", "loyalty" etc...and then go all EGO in his job (Belly, Kokinis etc), pretty much doing the exact opposite...that's why I lable him the biggest primadonna in the clubhouse because his "my way or highway" style formally is the same of a Meshwan-player...of course his content is smarter but the style is the same....and I'm not convinced that's the way to go, esp. when things go wrong...and Mangini has always had long losing streaks in his career (late fade with Jets, starts with us)

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Your spite of him is getting to the point where it's tough to even read your posts anymore.

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Your spite of him is getting to the point where it's tough to even read your posts anymore.

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I can't believe you've read them this long.

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Your spite of him is getting to the point where it's tough to even read your posts anymore.

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I can't believe you've read them this long.

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+1

"Ignore This User" is a wonderful feature.

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Mangini bagging another former "friend" in Romeo to make himself look good...what else is new?

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Rob Ryan said it was a disaster not Mangini.

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We beat the Saints - and you harp on how lucky we were. We smoke the Pats - and, according to you - it had nothing to do with the coaching/game plan, etc.

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Well, we've had posters who go to TC and who've said that Crennel's camps were like country clubs for coddled little spoiled brats.
And we see where that got us, so I'm quite comfortable with Mangini running a tight ship.

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If a "My Way or the Highway" attitude from a coach leads to the kind of culture that helps us physically and mentally dominate teams like New Orleans and New England in decisive wins, well then the whiny Braylon Edwards of the world can go drop passes someplace else. Some people just aren't made to go to war when called upon, they'd rather sit in a room full of mirrors.

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Did you see his players congratulate him yesterday, hmmmm django?? Hillis, Fujita... others. They knew what a win like that over Belichick meant to Mangini, but yeah they all hate him.

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now look at this: after Romeo's 1st 18 games he was 8-16, just like Mangini...and with MUCH worse talent (Verba at LT and Fisk at NT anyone? Yeah, almost as good as Thomas/Rogers, lol....somebody please post that starting 22 and then match it to today's)....

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and after the 1st 2 seasons Romeo had his 10-6 season, lets 1st see if Mangini can get us there....

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Romeo's teams were competitive at the start of the season and then dogged it when there was nothing to play for...that's bad...Mangini's teams start out bad and then grow during a season that is already compromised, that's bad too...

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the trade off for character is playmaking talent, get used to it...thank god he inherited some PB talent and now has a real GM to give him players...what Mangini "likes" was at display last offseason

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I asked for locker room footage, anything else I don't care much about...normally they get shown after wins, esp. big wins...wonder why that's not the case anymore...they did it once after the1st W vs BUF last year and it was a farce, might as well have thought they lost

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Squeek out a 6-3 win over another of the worst teams in football to get to 1-4 and what did you expect the locker room to be like? Champagne pouring? We sucked, our offense was anemic.. there was no reason to celebrate.. This is one of your weaker arguments really.. that the on field celebrations and congratulations are meaningless, you only believe what happens in the lockerroom afterwards.. I'm sorry but every single thing I hear coming from the players is talking about coming together, buying in, playing like a team, believing in each other..

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THROW away the Keyboard,, Take a Prozac,
fixed it for you to make it easier on everyone

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I'm sorry but every single thing I hear coming from the players is talking about coming together, buying in, playing like a team, believing in each other..

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in the locker room he wasn't in the middle, if you didn't know, you'd think he's an assistant, player's held speaches, Mangini said next to nothing, no pep talk, nothing..

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The brothers Ryan remember only highlights from their infamous college fisticuffs at Southwestern Oklahoma State. The fight started in the dormitory and spilled outside, where two friends suffered broken noses attempting to make peace.



By brawl’s end, Rex Ryan’s shirt had been torn off. His twin brother, Rob, broke both an ankle and his nose. Yet almost instantly, all was forgiven. The Ryans went soon after to the Super Bowl, where their father, Buddy, served as defensive coordinator for the 1985 Chicago Bears.

There, the Ryans partied in New Orleans, walking everywhere to save on cab fare. Rob complained of foot pain — oh, shut up, his brothers told him — and later discovered the bottom of his cast had disappeared.

“They tried to tell our stepmother that Rob fell down a flight of stairs,” said Jim Ryan, their older brother, an attorney in St. Louis. “My dad was sitting there with a look on his face, like, yeah, right.”

The Ryan rivalry continues Sunday, when Rex and the Jets travel to Cleveland, where Rob serves as the Browns defensive coordinator. This being the Ryan brothers, the already record levels of trash talk amplified in recent weeks.

Rob, speaking from the Browns’ facility near Cleveland, pointed to early victories (Tennessee State over Morehead State) as a college assistant and noted he owned more Super Bowl rings (two to one). Rex said in a telephone interview that he triumphed the last three times they stood on opposing sidelines and never lost to Rob in the N.F.L.

The trash talk even extended into Wiffle Ball, a Ryan family pastime.

Rob: “I absolutely kill him. His bat’s tardy.”

Rex: “He’s delusional. I buckle him with the knuckle curve. He’s never been the same since I hit him in the head with a golf ball when we were 10.”

Growing up in Toronto, the Ryan brothers played backyard football, with Jim, older by 6 years, pitted against the twins. Their games had one rule: if you did not dispense cheap shots, you were penalized. In one contest, Rex or Rob, Jim cannot remember which, slid down a snow bank into a moving vehicle. In another, Rob celebrated before he reached the goal line, then turned smack into a tree.

After hundreds of such games, the twins reached high school, and days of Ryan versus Ryan and Ryan ended. In their final meeting, Jim said, “Rex dropped me and Rob kept laughing at me while stepping on my face.”

The Ryans played all sports with similar abandon, much like the defenses they coach, physical and tough. They played hockey (Rex as goalie, Rob on defense), basketball (camped underneath the basket and fouling on every play) and football, at least when they were allowed. They were booted from their youth football league in Canada for tackling too hard.

Over the years, according to Jim, Rob proved the more talented trash talker and the more accident prone twin, the kind of kid who once fell from a tree and broke his arm. Rex was the more politically savvy of the two, and, Jim confirmed, the Wiffle Ball King. Rob, Jim continued, is more like their father and more like a pirate because of his long hair.

Both brothers speak in expletives as much as English. Both possess matching, mountainous midsections. Both are considered brilliant defensive strategists, a notion sometimes overshadowed by their bluster and brutal honesty. Even their sentences sound the same.

Rob: “When Rex won the Super Bowl, I was jacked. I was talking so much mess. It was (expletive) awesome.”

Rex: “When Rob won the Super Bowl, I was surrounded by St. Louis fans, talking mess the whole game. When Brady led them down the field, it was (expletive) awesome.”

Buddy Ryan pushed his sons into anything but coaching. But it was clear, even in college, that the twins would follow him into the family business.

Even then they started at the bottom. Rex coached at Eastern Kentucky, New Mexico Highlands and Morehead State. Rob coached at Western Kentucky, Tennessee State and Hutchinson Community College. Sometimes, while at different schools, they helped each other in recruiting, sharing information, tips.

Eventually, Jim convinced Buddy to hire the twins in Arizona in 1994. But when the Cardinals tanked that following season, Buddy’s worst fears — accusations of N.F.L. nepotism — were realized.

The Jets assistant Jeff Weeks attended college with the Ryans, who he labeled the two most loyal people he ever met. In little league, Rex borrowed Rob’s contact lens and smacked a two-run homer. In football, they often double-teamed opponents instead of completing their respective assignments.



Rex estimated the brothers were in more than 100 fights. Only rarely did they square off against each other (like the epic battle, or once on Easter). As ballboys in Chicago, they nearly fought a Buffalo defensive back after one game.

“There’s probably a top 10 fight list out there that would blow your mind,” Weeks said. “I’ve never tried either of them. And I never will.”

Just like they helped each other recruit at different colleges, they share inside information in the pros. When the Jets played in the American Football Conference championship game last season, the twins and Weeks met nightly in Rex’s hotel room, where they studied film and exchanged ideas.

That loyalty is reciprocated by their players, who see real people in the Ryans, who held paper routes and tarred roofs and worked construction, who give honest assessments, who send defenses after quarterbacks like swarms of bees. Against New Orleans this season, Rob received a Gatorade shower from his players.

With Rex’s instant success last season, and with the Browns’ striking victories over the Saints and New England the last two weeks, Rob “will be shocked” if he does not join Rex as an N.F.L. head coach next year.

On Sunday, they will continue to take part in an interesting triangle, because Rob works under Coach Eric Mangini, who Rex replaced with the Jets when they fired Mangini following the 2008 season. Mangini is as reserved as the Ryans are outspoken, but he called Rob “a great counterbalance” and “the minister of trash talking.”

All three played down the potential awkwardness of the dynamic. Rob, in typical Ryan fashion, labeled Mangini “a special guy. I mean, he hires me as defensive coordinator, probably his most important hire.” And Rex, also in typical Ryan fashion, said Rob remains “loyal as hell to Eric. He would fight for him.”

Soon the latest installment of Ryan versus Ryan will commence. For all the talk, Weeks predicted the twins would embrace afterward, perhaps even shed a tear. Until then, they will continue talking.

Rob said: “I got a lot to look forward to. All I hear is this mess about how he kicks my butt all the time. We’re ready. We’re going to beat him.”

Rex said: “He’s drinking too many beers. I’m losing count of all my wins. I’ve always been able to whip him, and this year will be no different.”

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On Sunday, they will continue to take part in an interesting triangle, because Rob works under Coach Eric Mangini, who Rex replaced with the Jets when they fired Mangini following the 2008 season. Mangini is as reserved as the Ryans are outspoken, but he called Rob “a great counterbalance” and “the minister of trash talking.”

All three played down the potential awkwardness of the dynamic. Rob, in typical Ryan fashion, labeled Mangini “a special guy. I mean, he hires me as defensive coordinator, probably his most important hire.” And Rex, also in typical Ryan fashion, said Rob remains “loyal as hell to Eric. He would fight for him.”

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