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What U fail to do is something Toad and I always say,you look at a individual players talents and what they do inspite of whats happening around them,then you'll know if they are dependant on support or are good enough to function by themselves.
U are placing a screen over Wright..blitzes/lack of help do not minimize the fact that Wright has horrible techniques and is a soft cover player.
Speaking of blitzes I saw one game where they sent Wright in (it was so obvious),left the receiver on Ward (who passed him off to Elame deeper) and the QB immediately went to the hot read and got the ball into the space before Elam could react..U can rail, and cry about Ward but it's Elam/Wright who are the weak links.
In the few times I've been able to isolate Haden,his cover technique is tighter than Wrights,and he's more physical.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/18/10 12:09 PM.
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Come on guys. Brown has not played that well. He gave up the long TD to Roddy White on the post route. He fell down on the long TD to TO. He allowed Mike Williams to catch the pop-up in the back of the end zone. Brown has been beaten a number of times.
Haden gave up the TD on the 9 route to lose the Tampa game. Haden is getting thrown at a lot recently. He gave up a lot of catches last game.
All this stuff people are saying about "for some reason Stupid Drew Brees or Stupid Tom Brady can't figure out all they need to do is throw at Eric Wright and all their problems would have been solved. Phew! That was a close one!" crap is just crap. you really think you know how to win football games better than these guys? Yes, Wright blew the Baltimore game, manned up and admitted it... but he hasn't played that poorly overall since then.
The point is, all of our corners have been getting beaten. Our safeties are not good cover guys. Ward is good at getting to the ball quickly when he's in position, but he's still figuring out how to get in position.
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J/C
finally got around to watching the Jets game last night (from NFLN Replay)
Ward was the one who had a terrible game. Wright had a decent game.
It was Ward who lost Cotchery on the first TD (he doubled the outside and never saw him run to the middle) for his worst offense and he kept getting himself out of position in coverage.
Wright had a few bad plays as well (2nd and 20 and he gives Braylon a 20yd cushion to get 16 of it unopposed?), but overall he was in the right place most times and did not "Ole" any tackles that I saw.
And I do like Ward. He's been fantastic most of the year. He had a bad game and the Jets exposed some of his flaws. He should review it and learn from it as I am sure he is doing.
#gmstrong
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He has spoiled us with his play.  (My words, not his.)
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He has spoiled us with his play.
(My words, not his.)
and his family. don't forget that he has spoiled his family with his play too.
#gmstrong
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Come on guys. Brown has not played that well. He gave up the long TD to Roddy White on the post route. He fell down on the long TD to TO. He allowed Mike Williams to catch the pop-up in the back of the end zone. Brown has been beaten a number of times.
Who said anything about Brown? I know whats he done .I knew he lost a step ,dude is not young,but he's a crafty vet and knows the ropes. All this stuff people are saying about "for some reason Stupid Drew Brees or Stupid Tom Brady can't figure out all they need to do is throw at Eric Wright and all their problems would have been solved. Phew! That was a close one!" crap is just crap. you really think you know how to win football games better than these guys? what the heck does all that mean?? U making a point or did you just blow your coverage?  Yes, Wright blew the Baltimore game, manned up and admitted it... but he hasn't played that poorly overall since then.
He's had some bad games since.Without improving much. The point is, all of our corners have been getting beaten. Our safeties are not good cover guys. Ward is good at getting to the ball quickly when he's in position, but he's still figuring out how to get in position.
Any rookie gets out of position,the coaches have to coach him up and the players have to help him..but the other safety whom U conveinantly left unmentioned ,can't school anyone when he's gets taken to class every 3 plays.
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j/c
We will be a better team when we get an upgrade at CB and S...and our two young guys get some experience.
Along with WR, these are our most glaring weaknesses that must be addressed significantly in the offseason.
I have to believe that Heckert/Holmgren see this too...but what can they say/do at this point.
The coaches are getting quite a bit out of what they have to work with right now.
I am trying to enjoy this ride and not second guess long-gone personnel moves. Yeah...EM the GM was a bust...get over it...he is not the GM anymore.
If Mitchell/Williams can show anything this second half...we will have further confirmation that Heckert knows what he is doing.
One more offseason dawgs...one more...then I think we will be back.
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If we had another "good" CB, do you think the coaches would have moved Brown to S in training camp?
Or do you not see any viable S in Brown?
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I really can't answer that,one because Brown openly said he wanted no part of playing FS..although I think since he's lost speed that would be a better fit.
Second ,don't know how Ryan/Mangini would have viewed that ..Brown is more instinctive than Elam is,but I think they would have kept Brown at CB.
Me..I would have done so.
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Quote:
All this stuff people are saying about "for some reason Stupid Drew Brees or Stupid Tom Brady can't figure out all they need to do is throw at Eric Wright and all their problems would have been solved. Phew! That was a close one!" crap is just crap. you really think you know how to win football games better than these guys?
what the heck does all that mean?? U making a point or did you just blow your coverage?
My point is that people were saying we lucked out in these games that Brees and Brady didn't just attack Wright all day, and had they, they'd have won the games for their teams because Wright certainly would have blown the play. We heard it after both the Saints and Pats games. These folks claiming this seemed to not even consider that maybe they weren't throwing at Wright's guy BECAUSE HE WAS COVERED. I was trying to illustrate how arrogant and likely incorrect it is to assume that Super Bowl- and league MVP-winning quarterbacks don't know how to beat the Browns as well as random message board fan. The other assumption was that Wright was not doing his job, which evidence (i.e. not throwing at him) shows to likely be incorrect.
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You beat all I have ever heard when it comes to putting your spin on things. It's Wards fault  Btw Haden has come a long way from TB. The sooner we can send Wright to the bench or out the door, the better imho. He is a veteran CB, so no excuses needed.
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Hahaha, did you just say Wright's tackling has been better this year? Clearly, you have been watching his play with biased eyes. Do you know him personally or something?
Go back and watch the Ravens game. Boldin treated Wright like he was his little brother. Horrible physical mismatch.
Go back and watch the second half (mainly the 4th quarter) of the Saints game. Missed tackle after missed tackle.
Go back and watch Hines Ward punk Wright as he smiles his way into the endzone. Seriously, I would love to hear your excuse about how the blame doesn't fall on Wright for that play.
Go back and watch the Jets beat us in overtime.
Do you need any more examples? One tackle (and I wouldn't even call it a "good" tackle) doesn't mean he is getting better, sorry. As I said, if he wants to come back as a nickle back with a low salary, then I'm all for bringing him back. But if he wants big time #1 CB money, then he's gone.
Give me a physical corner like Antoine Winfield any day over a finesse player like Wright.
And Wright's ball skills? His ball skills have been horrible this year! Unless you think never turning to find the ball and instead running at the WR with your hands out good ball skills. To tell the truth, I have seen a lot more passes knocked down by Haden then I have from Wright this year, and that's with less playing time. Am I lying, or have other people seen this too?
Last edited by CribbsHero; 11/18/10 06:45 PM.
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You're absolutelyright about the ward td. I had blocked out that game.
As far as pass defenses, espn says wright is tied for 11th in the league with 9, while Haden is tied for 40th with 7.
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i'm taking a positive outlook on Wright. it's more hope than true belief, but... Wright's contract is up this year. it's safe to say we won't lose him to someone b/c of $, a la AHenry, right? so is it possible that he is just having a bad year, we resign him on the cheap, and he rebounds to be a solid, if unspectacular cover corner, as he has been until now? look, you can pick the guy apart, but he can be a good enough piece on this defense for a few more years while we add playmakers and replace aging DL/LBs. so maybe, just maybe, we catch a break with EW having a poor contract year. 
Browns fans are born with it...
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I was trying to illustrate how arrogant and likely incorrect it is to assume that Super Bowl- and league MVP-winning quarterbacks don't know how to beat the Browns as well as random message board fan
Well apparantly several of them don't,cuze they didn't..whateva..thats not even a point to debate.
The other assumption was that Wright was not doing his job, which evidence (i.e. not throwing at him) shows to likely be incorrect.
The likely assumption is that most in here don't understand what they're seeing and have assumed wrong as usual.Wright is having a bad year and pretty much sucks right now and those just wanting to deflect it to Ward are off base.
I know the rookie is learning and making mistakes..but you have a vet CB who simply sucks right now and a vet FS who has as many clues as GO-GO Gadget..
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I agree, Loyal. Posted on here before: He is a weak sister and a number of teams keep him as a "go to" guy to keep drives alive, as in they need to convert long third down conversions. He has cut our throats with whiff tackles, no contact on the line, cushions that surrender before the ball is snapped. He just doesn't seem to want to be out there at least twice as often as he does seem interested. What is maddening is the rare good heads up plays show he could do more but doesn't for whatever reasons. I want him to shine for the Brownies, but if he won't then get his replacement in here. As a trend, his game is bad and getting worse IMO. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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As i said some time back, he is our new Potete....be it better.
Teams are going to pick on the weak link, and positive proof why corners need to be top picks(or get lucky).
You have to have two excellent corners if you want to shut down the passing game week in and week out.
Corners are like O-linemen and D linemen.....you can't have too many good ones.
Just the way it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
You beat all I have ever heard when it comes to putting your spin on things.
It's Wards fault
Btw Haden has come a long way from TB.
The sooner we can send Wright to the bench or out the door, the better imho.
He is a veteran CB, so no excuses needed.
dude...you know that "great play" many people think Haden made on the deep route against Jacksonville? Watch the replay
Haden was beaten by ATLEAST 5 steps on that play...5 steps by a "no name" WR
the ONLY reason that was not 6 points was because Gerrard threw a HORRIBLE under thrown pass....a "no name" WR made Haden look "worse" then Hank Poteat....
look at who Wright has been beaten by:
1. Owens(3rd all time in TD's)
2. Boldin(top 5 to top 10 receiver in the league)
3. Holmes(former Superbowl MVP)\
those guys make ALL CB look silly at some points...thats why they make big bucks...on any day on any game they can make ANY corner look like a bum
however Haden was burnt deep and was owned by a "no name" WR....i never even heard of the guy before...Haden was beat by 4 or 5 steps and looked ay worse then Wright looked against ANY of those top guys i posted above.
whats the excuse? Haden was "torched": by a no name kid from Tampa who makes his 1st ever NFL TD catch against him, and he was flat out OWNED by a no- name receiver for the Jags
that was a sure fire bomb for 6 points if Gerrard doesn't under throw that pass...the ONLY reason it was a TD was because of Gerrard....Haden had nothing to do with it...the guy was flat out owned by a no-name.
i am not saying this to "dog" on Haden..im just telling you Wright isn't the problems...Wright, Brown, and even Haden ALL get hung out to dry with this god awful Front 7 with a pass rush that is non-existent.......
it won't matter who is playing corner for us...teams are going to take shots deep at both of them because they have time to....it don't matter who is over there
If we give up on Wright he will go to NE, Pitt or KC and Start and play well and we will look like fools
Wright is having one down year...he has had 3 good years prior...,look at his Passes Defensed numbers over the last 3 seasons...teams threw at him alot the last few years..its complete BS that teams didn't throw at him the last few years..
in 2007 he had 11 pass defenses
in 2008 he had 13 pass defense
in 2009 he had 14 pass defense
in 2010 so far he has 9 pass defenses
http://www.nfl.com/players/ericwright/profile?id=WRI193852
the last 3 years before this year teams threw at him "more" and "more" each year and his first 3 years he answered and played well...the guy is having one down year, even Cy Young award winning pitchers in baseball have a down year every now and then
Eric Wright isn't some weak link teams throw at all thew time thats the biggest bunch of BS i have ever heard and it has no basis in fact whatsoever
Sheldon Brown has 6 pass Defenses this year
Joe Haden has 10 already this year
http://www.nfl.com/players/joehaden/profile?id=HAD357325
look im just saying....until we get some semblence of a pass rush you can't fairly access these corners.....we force our corners to hold coverage for 7 secs or more..i have seen QB have 10 and 11 secs to stand back there...no way anyone be it Wright, Haden, or Brown can be expected to do anything under those circumstances..no way
The Steelers, Ravens, Pats, Colts, etc don't leave their corners out there like that for anywhere near that long
the play of your corners is only as good as your pass rush...they work hand in hand...util we get a pass rush there is no way you can say Wright or anyone sucks...considering Wright has played well the last 3 years..no way....cooler heads must prevail here...
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Did anyone even missed Wright after he went out? I didn't. The defense didn't play any worse.
Hell, the announcers didn't really mention his name after he went out.
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Quote:
Quote:
You beat all I have ever heard when it comes to putting your spin on things.
It's Wards fault
Btw Haden has come a long way from TB.
The sooner we can send Wright to the bench or out the door, the better imho.
He is a veteran CB, so no excuses needed.
dude...you know that "great play" many people think Haden made on the deep route against Jacksonville? Watch the replay
Haden was beaten by ATLEAST 5 steps on that play...5 steps by a "no name" WR
the ONLY reason that was not 6 points was because Gerrard threw a HORRIBLE under thrown pass....a "no name" WR made Haden look "worse" then Hank Poteat....
look at who Wright has been beaten by:
1. Owens(3rd all time in TD's)
2. Boldin(top 5 to top 10 receiver in the league)
3. Holmes(former Superbowl MVP)\
those guys make ALL CB look silly at some points...thats why they make big bucks...on any day on any game they can make ANY corner look like a bum
however Haden was burnt deep and was owned by a "no name" WR....i never even heard of the guy before...Haden was beat by 4 or 5 steps and looked ay worse then Wright looked against ANY of those top guys i posted above.
whats the excuse? Haden was "torched": by a no name kid from Tampa who makes his 1st ever NFL TD catch against him, and he was flat out OWNED by a no- name receiver for the Jags
that was a sure fire bomb for 6 points if Gerrard doesn't under throw that pass...the ONLY reason it was a TD was because of Gerrard....Haden had nothing to do with it...the guy was flat out owned by a no-name.
i am not saying this to "dog" on Haden..im just telling you Wright isn't the problems...Wright, Brown, and even Haden ALL get hung out to dry with this god awful Front 7 with a pass rush that is non-existent.......
it won't matter who is playing corner for us...teams are going to take shots deep at both of them because they have time to....it don't matter who is over there
If we give up on Wright he will go to NE, Pitt or KC and Start and play well and we will look like fools
Wright is having one down year...he has had 3 good years prior...,look at his Passes Defensed numbers over the last 3 seasons...teams threw at him alot the last few years..its complete BS that teams didn't throw at him the last few years..
in 2007 he had 11 pass defenses
in 2008 he had 13 pass defense
in 2009 he had 14 pass defense
in 2010 so far he has 9 pass defenses
http://www.nfl.com/players/ericwright/profile?id=WRI193852
the last 3 years before this year teams threw at him "more" and "more" each year and his first 3 years he answered and played well...the guy is having one down year, even Cy Young award winning pitchers in baseball have a down year every now and then
Eric Wright isn't some weak link teams throw at all thew time thats the biggest bunch of BS i have ever heard and it has no basis in fact whatsoever
Sheldon Brown has 6 pass Defenses this year
Joe Haden has 10 already this year
http://www.nfl.com/players/joehaden/profile?id=HAD357325
look im just saying....until we get some semblence of a pass rush you can't fairly access these corners.....we force our corners to hold coverage for 7 secs or more..i have seen QB have 10 and 11 secs to stand back there...no way anyone be it Wright, Haden, or Brown can be expected to do anything under those circumstances..no way
The Steelers, Ravens, Pats, Colts, etc don't leave their corners out there like that for anywhere near that long
the play of your corners is only as good as your pass rush...they work hand in hand...util we get a pass rush there is no way you can say Wright or anyone sucks...considering Wright has played well the last 3 years..no way....cooler heads must prevail here...
So you stopped hating on Mangini, and in turn, turned all of your new unused hatred towards Joe Haden?
He got beat in his first game ever in the NFL... Yes by a Rookie... Possibly the Rookie of the Year...
Who is this no-name you speak of? Too hard to present actual facts... I know, sometimes they get in the way...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Did anyone even missed Wright after he went out? I didn't. The defense didn't play any worse.
Hell, the announcers didn't really mention his name after he went out.
Eric Wright goes out... And we get 4 INTs...
Coincadence?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Eric Wright goes out... And we get 4 INTs...
Coincadence?
Yes.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Haden was beaten by ATLEAST 5 steps on that play...5 steps by a "no name" WR
He was beaten! no.....re recovered. Something he showed on more then one occasion.
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1. Owens(3rd all time in TD's)
2. Boldin(top 5 to top 10 receiver in the league)
3. Holmes(former Super bowl MVP)\
Among other less notable WR and TE's
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whats the excuse? Haden was "torched":
by a no name kid from Tampa who makes his 1st ever NFL TD catch against him, and he was flat out OWNED by a no- name receiver for the Jags
Funny but I don't recall him ever being torched.
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Wright is having one down year...he has had 3 good years prior...,look at his Passes Defensed numbers over the last 3 seasons...teams threw at him alot the last few years..its complete BS that teams didn't throw at him the last few years..
in 2007 he had 11 pass defenses
in 2008 he had 13 pass defense
in 2009 he had 14 pass defense
in 2010 so far he has 9 pass defenses
 Passes defense is no defense, because it only tells half the story.
Does it tell us how many times he was thrown at? No it does not.
And using Haden's first game in the league to prove your point holds no water imb.
And I did not see him get owned last Sunday and I think you are out on a pretty thin branch there 
If you read all my post you would not see me saying anything that would indicate that his problems are physical.
Wright just seems to be dis interested for what ever reason and the only stats that matter to me is how many times he has been torched for a TD, by either the pass or by way of missed tackles.
I think Wright should have more passes defensed then Haden at this point, because he was the starter.
Haden already has two more int's.
He is the future.
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I checked the Play by Play of the game.
The only deep pass that I found that was covered by Haden was to Mike Thomas.
And while Thomas may not be All-Pro, he's far from a "No-Name WR" in the league.
Seriously dude, if you want to have an opinion thats fine, but making stuff up to support it is rediculous...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Did anyone even missed Wright after he went out? I didn't. The defense didn't play any worse.
Hell, the announcers didn't really mention his name after he went out.
Eric Wright goes out... And we get 4 INTs...
Coincadence?
Probably. I think 2 of them were tipped balls. But, you could argue that we were in a better position to get those 4 picks because Wright wasn't in there letting his man run all over the place uncovered.
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Quote:
Eric Wright goes out... And we get 4 INTs...
Coincadence?
Wright goes down and Garrard converts an easy 3rd and goal to Marcedes Lewis covered by 5'7" Ray Ventrone...
coincidence?
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Quote:
Quote:
Eric Wright goes out... And we get 4 INTs...
Coincadence?
Wright goes down and Garrard converts an easy 3rd and goal to Marcedes Lewis covered by 5'7" Ray Ventrone...
coincidence?
No!.....No Mike Adams "!" 
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Quote:
Quote:
Eric Wright goes out... And we get 4 INTs...
Coincadence?
Wright goes down and Garrard converts an easy 3rd and goal to Marcedes Lewis covered by 5'7" Ray Ventrone...
coincidence?
Yes I'm sure the extra 3 or 4 inches Wright has over Ventrone would help against a 6 foot 6" TE...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think he is in the wrong position in this defense-he should be a nickel back. He will get more than his share of interceptions there, much like Anthony Henry was (he was not a cornerback, but in the nickel or dime, he excelled), and we NEED a nickel/dime guy.
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I think he is in the wrong position in this defense-he should be a nickel back. He will get more than his share of interceptions there, much like Anthony Henry was (he was not a cornerback, but in the nickel or dime, he excelled), and we NEED a nickel/dime guy.
In your scenario...... I though Eric Wright did a good job of covering Winslow this season, but a Nickel back also needs to be a guy who can tackle a big TE, because, many teams including us, use the TE in the slot.
We all know what kind of tackling he exhibits on the edge of the defense, so where as I follow your line of thinking, I also have my reservations too.
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
I often wish we could have kept Henry,...Wiki doesn't even have him listed as a former Brown,....
Eric has been outplayed by Haden. Game over.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Eric has been outplayed by Haden. Game over.
Eric Wight has put fourth his best poker face this season, but I think Haden's arrival might be the hitch in Wright's giddy up. I think he may feel slighted by the competition. [Sulking]
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
 I've made that point before,...
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
Simple solution move Wright to CB2....let Haden cover the WR1.....Sheldon can play CB3.....
#brownsgoodkarma
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,075
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,075 |
If that truly is the case, then he's probably not the kind of player I'd want in the locker room.
I mean, the career he's chosen is based on competition. If he can't withstand competition from a team mate, why should I trust him on the field against opponents?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
Quote:
If that truly is the case, then he's probably not the kind of player I'd want in the locker room.
I mean, the career he's chosen is based on competition. If he can't withstand competition from a team mate, why should I trust him on the field against opponents?
I think we should give the dude the benefit of the doubt. He's shown great coverage ability at times, and had a great year last year. He's owned up to having a bad year, and there have been problems with safety help. I'm not making excuses for him, but there have been no indications that he's a distraction in the locker room or anything but a stand up team player. He's a UFA this year, and I'd be disappointed if we didn't resign him.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,075
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,075 |
Don't get me wrong here, deathdawg17... I never actually said he DIDN'T deserve the benefit of doubt.
I even started my post with: "If that truly is the case"...
Truth be told, I'm not convinced that this is anything other than a bad year for Wright. He showed too much promise and production for me to write him off so quickly... I'm an old guy, and have too much patience to ever do a "knee-jerk" like that.
I usually flesh out my thoughts in much more detail ( to the boredom and frustration of many Dawgs on this board, no doubt), and I took a shortcut this time. I usually do it so that I don't have to come back and explain myself at a later date- much like I'm doing now.
FOR THE RECORD: I want to watch Eric Wright play through this entire year before I make an assessment of him. He has innate skills which served him well last year... and you don't just lose your skillset overnight. If he continues to stuggle, I'll be concerned.... but at this point, I'm still giving him a lot of wiggle room.
I haven't tossed in my towel on Eric Wright- not in the least.
Just wanted you to know....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
If that truly is the case, then he's probably not the kind of player I'd want in the locker room.
I mean, the career he's chosen is based on competition. If he can't withstand competition from a team mate, why should I trust him on the field against opponents?
I think we should give the dude the benefit of the doubt. He's shown great coverage ability at times, and had a great year last year. He's owned up to having a bad year, and there have been problems with safety help. I'm not making excuses for him, but there have been no indications that he's a distraction in the locker room or anything but a stand up team player. He's a UFA this year, and I'd be disappointed if we didn't resign him.
Correction! Wright will be a RFA and if that does not change in a new CBA, we can tender him.
He has 5 games to turn things around and impress the FO and Coaching staff.
Having said that, I don't think even if he plays well that it will have any barring on how we approach our next draft.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
I think he's worth keeping for the nickel, NPI.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Eric Wright
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