DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 18 Game Schedule/Collective Bargaining Update

Sources: NFLPA wants fewer workouts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Chris Mortensen
ESPN

Lukewarm to a proposed 18-game regular-season format by NFL owners, the NFL Players Association nevertheless has made what it says is a "good-faith" counterproposal that addresses the player safety risks incumbent with an expanded season.

The union's counterproposal, according to sources, includes significantly reduced voluntary offseason workouts and a specific number of helmetless and padless practices during training camp.

The highlights of the union proposal:

• Voluntary offseason workouts would be reduced from the current 14 weeks to five weeks or 20 days (four days a week, four-hour maximum per day).

• Significantly reduced contact between players during training camp with four practices a week consisting of helmetless and padless periods.

• Two in-season bye weeks.

• Expanded rosters from the current 53 to 56 or 57, in addition to practice squads.

• Increased prorated salaries for players under contract.

• Reduction of the amount of games players need to become vested to qualify for post-career health care and pension benefits.

An NFL spokesman said the league would not have a comment on the union's counterproposal, which was delivered to the league's labor negotiation team near the end of October without a response from management.

Despite optimistic public assertions made by high-profile owners such as Robert Kraft of the New England Patriots, there have been no substantive recent negotiations, nor are there any scheduled, on a new collective bargaining agreement. The owners will have their monthly labor meeting in mid-December in the Dallas area. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has stated that while there have been discussions, little progress has been made as both sides have prepared for a potential work stoppage in 2011.

"We have responded to every one of the league's proposals and concerns in an effort to keep negotiations progressing in good faith," said George Atallah, the NFLPA's assistant executive director of external affairs. "There are obvious concerns about an 18-game season in the absence of real information that we await."

Asked to describe "real information" that the union awaits, Atallah said, "injury data, financial information and a logical explanation as to why they are canceling their obligation to post-career and current health care [next March when the current CBA expires]."

In response to Atallah's description on health care, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello recirculated the management position on funding of current player benefits if there is a work stoppage: "This is yet one more reason to get back to the bargaining table and get an agreement. But there is no question that a strike or lockout triggers rights under a federal law known as COBRA that allows employees to continue their existing health insurance coverage without interruption or change in terms -- either at their expense or their union's expense. This means that no player or family member would experience any change in coverage for so much as a single day because of a work stoppage. The union surely knows this and there is no excuse suggesting otherwise."

The NFL's proposal for an 18-game regular season remains unavailable but sources said the league has called for a reduction from 14 weeks on voluntary workouts to 12. The union's five-week proposal is a stark contrast, although the NFLPA will allow for rookie exceptions as first-year players are integrated into the league.

The NFL also has proposed one bye week after the second of two preseason games in addition to one bye in-season, the sources added. The union wants both byes to be in-season.

Furthermore, union sources say that owners have proposed just one expanded roster spot, from 53 to 54, for an 18-game regular season.

The NFL calendar would undergo significant changes under an 18-game format with two byes, including the possibility that the Super Bowl will be played on President's Day weekend -- three weeks into February. However, there is still discussion of beginning the season one week earlier, on Labor Day, a practice the NFL has forsaken the past several years.

It's possible training camps would begin in late June with at least one break before resuming for preseason preparations, a source said.

Unrelated to the 18-game schedule, also remaining on the table are proposals from each side to include a rookie hard wage scale that could be in effect as early as the 2011 draft. However, whereas the owners want the $200 million on projected rookie wage savings redistributed with $100 million to improved retired player pensions and health care and the remaining $100 million to simply be available in the system with an increased pay-for-performance pool, the union wants the owners to match the $100 million savings on retired players.

Aiello's league response: "We proposed to the union prior to the 2010 season adopting a rookie wage scale for this year [2010] and redistributing the first $100 million to improve retired player pensions and health care. We were prepared to take this step immediately without a fully negotiated CBA in order to get help to retired players now. The union rejected the proposal."

Aiello added that the league already has committed that retired player benefits would continue even if the CBA expires without a new agreement.

Chris Mortensen is ESPN's senior NFL analyst.

They've got till March to keep this thing goin'...

I'd like to think that everyone on both sides is smart enough not to kill the golden goose, but this is America, after all.

Anyone else think it's a bit hypocritical for the league to suddenly show an intense interest in increasing player safety while insisting on extending the regular season an additional two games? Inconsistent at the very least.

Actually, I think the reverse......I find it hypocritical that the union wants to reduce workout time before agreeing to go to a longer schedule.

A lot of the injuries we are seeing, as well as the poor tackling fundamentals are based IMHO upon a lack of conditioning. They get paid awesome amounts of money, they need to go to work.

Union proposes offeason changes to adapt to 18-game schedule

By Jason La Canfora
NFL Network

Published: Nov. 16, 2010 at 05:08 p.m. Updated: Nov. 16, 2010 at 11:36 p.m.


The NFL owners have made it no secret that they are eager to increase the regular season from 16 to 18 games.

The players aren't so sure, and it's clear the expanded schedule has become a central issue in talks on a new collective-bargaining agreement.


The NFLPA made a counterproposal to owners Tuesday, and it includes a major change to the current offseason schedule, according to an union source.

The union doesn't want any team activities to begin until June 15. That's a big change from current offseason format, in which teams begin offseason activities by mid-March.

The players union wants only rookies and first-year players at team headquarters for a two- or three-week orientation in the spring. Veterans wouldn't have to report until June 15. The union also would limit number of full-contact sessions.

In addition, the NFLPA wants two bye weeks, larger rosters and a potential expansion of practice-squad size, The Associated Press reported, citing a source familiar with the negotiations.

With the league preferring not to play on Labor Day weekend, the players' proposal could mean a Super Bowl in mid-February. This season's title game is scheduled for Feb. 6 in Arlington, Texas.

Current rosters are set at 53 and the players want at least four or five more spots. Coaches certainly will want to suit up more than the 45 and a third quarterback currently allowed.

Neither side has said when the next set of negotiations will be held. The owners have a meeting in Dallas in mid-December.

For more NFL labor news, visit http://NFLLabor.com

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

I don't see all that much that can't be worked out.

Owners want to add 1 player...the players want 3....make it 2.

I agree about easing practice schedules for veterans and also agree about more helmetless practice.

I also agree the bye's should be in season, though i would like to see the byes done all at once...one week you shut down one conference minus two teams, then the next week you shut down the other.... get all teams byes done in weeks 5-6, then again in weeks 12-13.

The way they do it now makes no sense and provides advantages. Teams who get the early bye and the late bye are put at a disadvantage IMO.

Neither the amount of playing time of starters nor the level of intensity of preseason games compare in any way to regular season games. That's why everyone hates them in the first place.

20 games is 20 games, but all games are not created equal.

dude- you should get on the negotiating committee.

Either one- I don't care... so long as your common-sense approach gets implemented.

well-thought.


Maybe you could get appointed as a special mediator?

Of course not, but for the teams that win, the last 2 or 3 games of the season are equivalent to the pre-season. Again a wash.

No kidding. Tackling has been a MAJOR weakness for seasons on end. Better this year, but still...

Shep, IMO the reason things look so scewed is because they haven't really been negotiating for a while.

I've done some negotiations in terms of salaries and benifits. Not nearly at this level of course!



But I think the same basic principals apply. Both sides ask for unreasonable demands they know they're never going to get. Bottom line is, they end up somewhere in the middle. the owners know it and the players know it, so both sides start out fairly far apart knowing that in the end, they'll both find some middle ground.

Provided the greed isn't so intense from either or both sides to prevent that from happening. It happened in baseball many years ago which is why I got so sick of it I no longer watch it or support it. To many strikes/walk outs far to close together.

I still don't think the game has recovered completly from that and if it has, it's only been recently.

So from my perspective both sides are asking for some rather futile things in their current negotiations. But with any luck they'll both start moving to the middle enough we won't be without the NFL in 2011.

jmho

Good read and info. BTW

NFL players union asks government to help avert lockout
By Kevin Goheen • Enquirer contributor • November 28, 2010

CINCINNATI -- The NFL Players Association sent letters to Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, Governor-elect John Kasich and Cincinnati mayor Mark Mallory this week seeking help from the politicians in its efforts to avert a lockout by NFL management next March.

It was a move the NFLPA repeated for all 32 teams.

The Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA is set to run out on March 4. If a new CBA is not reached by that time the owners could lock out the players and put in jeopardy the 2011 season.

Owners voted in 2008 to opt out of the current CBA when it expired and work towards a new agreement that would be more favorable to them. The NFLPA wants to continue working with the current deal’s framework and have the owners open up their financial books to prove assertions that the current deal needs to be reworked.

The NFLPA claims that the Cincinnati market could see as much as $160 million in lost jobs and revenue if a work stoppage were to occur.

“During one of the worst economies since the Great Depression, NFL owners are preparing to cancel the 2011 season and, in the process, devastate Cincinnati businesses and stadium workers who count on football Sundays to make ends meet,” NFLPA president Kevin Mawae stated in the letter. “It is our hope that the owners will shelve this plan and negotiate in good faith to ensure that we are playing for the fans in 2011.”

Bengals management declined to comment on the NFLPA’s letters, instead deferring to the league office to handle any reply.

The NFL’s response to the union’s letter-writing campaign was a terse rebuke; the NFL has no desire to have government intervention in their negotiating process.

“Now that the union leaders have concluded their decertification ‘going-out-of-business sale,’ arranged for form letters to be sent to NFL owners by other unions, and issued press releases about their letter-writing campaign to mayors and governors, we are hopeful that they might find more time to talk to us,” read the NFL’s response.

“The union’s request for state and local political leaders to intercede in the negotiations ignores and denigrates the serious and far more substantial problems that those leaders, and that state and local workers across the country face. We can resolve our own issues as we have done many times in the past but the NFLPA has to want to participate in resolving them.”

There have been some signs though that both sides are getting more serious about reaching a deal. The two sides met last Monday and there are indications that there might be further meetings next month.

It’s also possible that the NFLPA might use decertification of the union as a way to prevent a lockout if no progress toward a deal is made. The Bengals players voted unanimously to decertify if the union leadership deemed it necessary.

If the NFLPA were to decertify and cease to be a union, since it would not have the authority to collectively bargain for its members, it would operate more or less as a trade organization and could sue the league under antitrust laws.

“We all need to take the time to get together as much as possible and get this thing done,” said left tackle Andrew Whitworth, the Bengals’ player representative. “I think that’s why people want there to be pressure to negotiate because when assumptions are made in negotiations that things are going to be a way that’s when things get delayed. We want to get to the table and let’s get it all out there and let’s get something done.”

BACK TO WORK: After having a weekend off, the Bengals return to Paul Brown Stadium today to prepare for the Saints game Sunday.

IN THE COMMUNITY: Leon Hall, Cedric Benson, Morgan Trent and Brandon Ghee will host a shopping spree for children from the Children’s Home of Northern Kentucky tonight as part of the Toys for Tots program.

The Bengals’ collection for Toys for Tots will be before the Saints game.

Joe Reedy contributed.

web page

Sensible compromise, Ballpeen. Mail those in. If each side wants to get it done, then it will happen. Why beat the goose for a better golden egg? They have something special here, and no reasons good enough to kill it.
I would move the byes to later in season when the healing time is needed. early byes disadvantage those teams IMO. If it is about recovery time, then something like week ten might be better (or thereabouts). The excessive number of flex times and too many games in too tight a window for the backs and groundpounders is a killer, too much abuse in too little time. M-Th-sunday is a lot of football dates. Rotate 'em. You ought to be there. Not that far apart. Doing silly posture stuff on the glossy issues. Some peeing contests aren't worth it. This has been amplified by owners hoping to force compromise IMO. They present a unified front, which in turn molds a need for a militant and unified defense on the players' parts. Wouldn't dare do that solo as a club. It is hardball, but some of this is just the law of the club where dogs are taught to obey. Not about quality dogs in this approach.

I really want to know if there will be more interconference games.

I would like to see 2 NFC divisons played each year, (e.g. give up the 2 games against the AFC comparative finish for the divisions that we do not play.

So

AFCN = 6 games
AFC Division 4 games
NFC Divisions 8 games.

j/c

link

ORT WORTH, Texas (AP) -- NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said a new labor agreement could be in place by the Super Bowl "if we all commit to it and work hard at it."

Goodell made it clear Wednesday that NFL negotiators are willing to do so.

"There's no higher priority than getting a collective bargaining agreement," he said following a day of meetings with NFL team owners. "So we will work night and day to get that done."

Asked whether he expects the same from the NFL Players' Association, Goodell said, "I hope so."

NFLPA spokesman Carl Francis said, "We have no comment at this time."

The major sticking point is the owners demanding to restructure the players' share of designated revenues. Another point of contention is the owners wanting to turn two preseason games into regular-season games; the union fears more injuries and has countered with a request for additional roster spots and cutting offseason workouts by about one-third from the current 14 weeks.

Goodell said the league has no deadline, but noted the collective bargaining agreement expires March 4.

"This becomes harder after the labor agreement expires," he said. "We want to get this done as soon as possible."

At the league's fall meetings in October, Patriots owner Robert Kraft said he considered it realistic to have a new CBA by the end of the regular season, which is Jan. 2.

Goodell said he doesn't think it is practical to expect negotiations to get serious enough fast enough for that to happen. However, he said, "I think the end of the postseason is realistic."

Kraft left the meetings saying he didn't want to discuss the negotiations.

"Just a lot of discussion. Nothing's changed. We're still hopeful of getting an agreement at some point, but I don't have any substantive comment about where we are," New York Giants co-owner John Mara said. "I'm always optimistic until proven otherwise."

Colts owner Jim Irsay said these negotiations felt like all the others he's been involved with over the last few decades.

"There's nothing that's unusual or anything earth-shattering right now," he said. "The process continues is the best way to put it."

Last week, the league agreed to give the union more time to file a collusion claim against the NFL. It was announced in a joint statement.

"I have said this repeatedly: I believe this will be resolved at the collective bargaining table," Goodell said. "Obviously we're seeing a lot of rhetoric and different tactics, including litigation strategies that I think are all distractions and attempts to get leverage. I understand that. But at the end of the day, this will get solved at the negotiating table. That's where we should be."

Goodell said it's a good sign that the league and the NFLPA are talking, but he called that only a start.

"It takes productive dialogue, which means we've got to get to that place where we're making significant progress in getting an agreement," he said. "It's not just about meetings and dialogues. It's about getting real, significant progress on the key issues."

The owners also watched a video on helmet hits and discussed reseeding for the playoffs.

Owners have discussed before whether to change the current system of rewarding division winners with a home playoff game, or if playoff seeds should be based strictly on record. It's an issue again because the winner of the NFC West could be 8-8 or 7-9, while a team with 10 or 11 wins could have to go on the road.

"I see the merits of what they're talking about," Goodell said. "But I also believe that our playoff system has worked quite well. ... We were focused a lot on [whether] the priority should be win your division, get a home game. That's what clubs really felt should be the priority."

The two clubs most likely hurt by the existing rules are the Giants and Eagles. They are tied for the NFC East lead at 9-4.

Mara said he understand the logic behind the way things are done, "though I don't necessarily agree with it."

"For me, a team that wins their division with a .500 record or worse shouldn't necessarily get a home game over a team that wins 10 or 11 games," Mara said. "I can't tell you I have a lot of hope about that passing. It's been discussed in the past and never gone anywhere."

Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie said he didn't have a stance.

"It's a tough question," he said. "You keep having to go back and forth with that every year."

The commissioner said a decision could be coming soon on the investigation in Brett Favre's possible improper conduct, and that another investigation is ongoing regarding a tampering charge between the Chiefs and Lions. Asked about a team moving to Los Angeles, Goodell said the CBA has to be resolved first.

Thanks for posting.

I found this funny ..... in an odd kinda way ....

Quote:

---

Last week, the league agreed to give the union more time to file a collusion claim against the NFL. It was announced in a joint statement.

---

Umm .... yeah .. we're going to give you more time to sue us if you like ....?

I may never understand labor negotiations ... especially between legitimate milionaires and billionaires ....

Even if I live to 1000,

More posturing.

I would assume that it has something to do with the union not decertifying ...... or some damn thing.

Yes. That and the impressions that it gives. The NFLPA keeps saying the big bad owners are going to lock us out, while the owners are saying look, we want to negotiate and are willing to bend over backwards to do so.

I'm hoping for the lockout. I wouldn't care if all 1696 current active players got up and left while 1696 new ones crossed the picket line. It would still be football, maybe not as good, but I wouldn't care. Bet on it.

if the Browns win the superbowl with scab players, I will still celebrate

Me too,...it will count.

I look at it this way, when we came back in the league in 99, we pretty much had scab players, if we had won the superbowl we all would have celebrated. We celebrated when we beat pittsburgh with thoseöplayers. It doesnt matter to me, as long as there helmets are orange and there team is called Cleveland Browns im celebrating..

Roger Goodell: NFL CBA talks 'not where we need to be'
02:12 PM 12/21/2010 USA Today


NFL commissioner Roger Goodell increasingly expresses his frustration publicly with the pace of negotiations regarding a new collective bargaining agreement in order for the league to avoid an potential lockout — with the expiration of the current deal now only 10 weeks away.

"We are not where we need to be — we need to get an agreement,'' Goodell told reporters in Minneapolis on Monday night prior to the Bears-Vikings game. "We are not as close as I would like to be. We have a lot more work to be done. We have time to get it done, but it's going to need a very concerted effort and commitment to get that done.''
A day earlier, Goodell echoed the urgency theme in Foxborough, Mass., although it was unclear whether he was referring to the NFLPA, the owners or both of their teams of representatives.

"My biggest frustration is the commitment and energy that needs to be there,'' Goodell said. "We need to make sure that's there and we get there as quickly as possible. The longer it does (go), the more damaging it is to the game.''

But Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson made it clear which side was dragging its feet. He told USA TODAY that the "pace is illogical.''

"It is very, very frustrating,'' said Richardson, 74, co-chair of the league's Management Council Executive Committee, which is responsible for labor negotiations.

"We have tried to explain that the longer this is delayed, the smaller the pool of revenues will be. It is shrinking, not getting larger."

Along with New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, Goodell held one of his town hall-style forums for fans prior to the Packers-Patriots Sunday night game.

Among the topics the commissioner addressed:

•Escalation of rookie salaries: "…the system has gotten out of whack. We have paid $2.5 billion to 500 rookies over the last two years — half of that is guaranteed. That money, or a big portion, should be going to proven veterans and ... retired veterans."

•Possible future playoff restructuring: "There's been a proposal ... I know will be further considered, which is the idea of seeding (playoff) teams so that every game counts. If you win your division, you automatically get a home game. Well, maybe that shouldn't be the case."

•Amounts of fines for repeat offenders who lead with the helmet: "If you continue to violate that rule, the fine is going to increase."

•The quality of officiating: "We are going to strive to get better. In officiating, you have to get consistency. ... We have the best officiating in sports, but that doesn't mean you stop there."

•Pay-per-view games: "I don't foresee that in the future. As a matter of fact, I would fight hard against that."

•Super Bowl ticket demand: "We are actually going to try something with the sidelines of Dallas' stadium, where we are going to try to make more tickets available at a lower cost to our fans. I am interested to see what happens."

•The NFL in Los Angeles. "One of the things we are trying to address in the collective bargaining agreement is how to get structure in place that will allow us to finance a new facility and get back into the Los Angeles market."

•Investigation of Jenn Sterger's allegations regarding Brett Favre: "I do expect a ruling before the end of the season. ... Any violation of the personal-conduct policy I take seriously. We have worked exhaustively to make sure we find out all the facts on this. The workplace environment has to be safe. My wife is in the media business and, believe me, I hear a little bit from her. I have twin daughters. I understand the importance of women in the workplace and what we have to do to create that environment."

•Medical and pension concerns of retired players: "I have made it very clear we are going to address the issues of retired players within the context of the collective bargaining agreement. It's one of the reasons we've focused on the rookie pool."
-- Jon Saraceno

"…the system has gotten out of whack."

Well, he has that part right,....

Agreed with that, OohRahJ! Such a sweet setup in the NFL, and we keep screwing around with it. Our best hope might be strike ball which did level the playing field so to speak when it happened before. But get this done. We are in a peeing contest over some relatively easy conflicts. Do need to get some momentum going in negotiating rounds to finalize. Lame to sewe this much money in the market for the NFL brand and product, and we can't see a way to close the deal for both sides? Money can't be as desperately needed as some owners indicate; not "driven to settle" on either side. Money doesn't seem real to these people.

Yep,....Unfortunately, they use money as a measure of ego and status,...power. Standing. " Don't diss me ! " I am important.

Yada, yada, yada.

I would prefer a system predicated on wins. Instead we watch T.O. laugh all the way to the bank.

I used to try to figure out how to get a system setup on wins. but, it is difficult.

the problem is that the best FOs already attract the best FAs. if you add wins to compensation, that magnifies it. plus, if you have a couple of key players (say Peyton Manning or Tom Brady), FAs will flock there as they know those guys are good for a few extra wins each year.

it would kill parity as the best players would seek the most money and could only get that from the best teams, which would then become even stronger (and the weak teams even weaker).

Yeah,...it's free agency that kills everything. At least "we're" finally getting better with the way it is.