DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cleveland Cavaliers

Spolestra will end up getting fired. Pat Riley will end up saving the day. It wouldn't be the hollywood ending if he didn't.

i said that months ago, although i predicted like a 3-4 start or something along the lines and riley taking over. so i thought he'd be in already.

honestly, i don't think he can save them. you can't coach size, and they are gonna get bullied when the playoffs come.

but i bet any money they get on a ridiculous run at some point, they beat some teams, even the elite ones, and espn is riding them calling the team the greatest ever.

but it's not about the regular season with them, it's about not being able to beat boston, LA, and maybe even orlando if they are hot.

I can't stand them as much as the next guy, but I'm not counting them out. Boston looked horrible all year last season, and turned things around in the playoffs. The lakers are the heavy favorite, but the heat has plenty of time to work out their issues.

Who would have thunk after the first 15 games the Heat would be 8-7?

What was the Cavaliers record last year after 15 games? 11-4 .... but you know .... that was with the "scrubs" team around him ........ so if he'd had teammates like maybe Bosh and Wade ....... well, the sky could be the limit ........

Like maybe 8-7.


The Heat have a 1 1/2 game lead on the Cavaliers int he overall standings so far.

The Heat have played 9 home games so far, and the Cavaliers have played 7.

Glad that superstar lineup is doing so well ... you know .... since James now has the proper talent around him so he can shine ...

Man, talk about someone who just doesn't get it. Come on, they're missing MIKE MILLER! Just wait til he's back. And Pat Riley comes down to coach. And Haslem comes back. This Heat team doesn't care about the regular season. They're clearly built for a deep playoff run. Nobody said it would be easy. They all knew they were going to have to play long minutes and be counted on in the clutch to step up, that's why they never took winning a championship for granted.

Oh.

You're right.


I forgot.

I've noticed that ESPN no longer has the Miami Heat "Chase for 72" page up on their website. Funny, because it had the Lakers on there too. But I guess they feel that if Miami isn't going to be able to do it, who cares if anyone else might?

Also, I haven't seen anyone on my television asking me "what should I do?" in the past two weeks or so, and I've watched a lot of basketball.

I was thinking about that as well.

Funny how quickly that thing got yanked.

I just wonder how long they're going to keep the "Heat Index" page up.

One thing I just though of that I found rather interesting.

The Heat have 2 players who never attended college.

Both are former Cavaliers. James and Z.

As far as the "Heat Index" .... at 8-7, wouldn't the "Mild and Lukewarm Index" be more appropriate?

What the heck is wrong with Miami's coach?

Doesn't he realise that LeBron came to Miami so he wouldn't HAVE to play 40+ minutes a game?

I mean the Heat are 0-7 when James plays 40+ minutes, who cares if all 7 of those games are either a close loss or a blow out, ya know, where you'd need your best players on the floor as much as possible...

HE'S LEBRON JAMES!

Give the man what he wants...

20-30 Minutes a game... and a Championship reign...

Is that SO much to ask...?

I have noticed that they've been running the "LeBron brings the Heat to Cleveland" spot on ESPN Radio for about the last three weeks... now that we're a week away from that game the machine that can't be tamed (ESPN) will turn it's full attention to hyping that game.

I can't wait for the coming days when I can be told to move on by Wilbon and company and that my owner is an idiot

I'm glad I'll be in Moab Utah for that game, far away from a tv

Whoever is a schedule maker gave a gift to the Cavs.

December 1st, Miami plays Detroit in South Beach...

The next day...

They play IN Cleveland...Who had that day off...

I'm still redicuously pessemistic that we're ganna get killed, he's ganna have a huge game... and someones ganna do something REALLY dumb...

I say we just double team James AND Wade and let Bosh TRY and beat us...

I really hope we don't get rid of scott. I know this team looks bad but he's making our PGs look like all stars.

totally agree. i hope byron scott can be patient with this team. and i hope he realizes dan gilbert is not going to sit on his hands forever. this year, maybe next year, but after that, he is going to get agressive again. he's a great owner to work for. no doubt about it.

the only way i see scott leaving would be to take the laker job if phil leaves and hill doesn't get hired.

i hope not though. scott knows his basketall and it's really sad when you think about what he could have done for lbj and for the cavs with lbj.

I was watching the All Bets Are Off and Pluto brought up an interesting point. The browns leaving cleveland was beyond more devastating then what lebron did. If they ever left again.... ugh..... I hated even imagining it. It's amazing how much cleveland fans value the browns more than any other team. I mean the Cavs were championship contenders but people still loved the Browns more even though they sucked.

saw that too. pluto really hit a couple of great points.

i think it's really hard to compare the situations too. they are completely different for many reasons. but also in a way they are the same because you can argue that in one case a franchise literally got up and left, and in the other case, maybe metaphorically, the cavs franchise got up and left. at least for the time being. the cavs will eventually get back to being a good team, it just may take more time than we want.

both cases you can actually blame other sources as well. we all know with the browns there were politics involved, and with lebron, i really believe bspn, and all these other national outlets played their part. they never liked lebron in cleveland, they probably hated that they had to nationally broadcast so many games for such a small market, you can't tell me that at least a little part of lbj got that in his head that maybe he couldn't win there. maybe cleveland was too small for him to create something.

ever since that ping pong ball fell in our favor, they were pushing him out. after his first season when they barely missed the playoffs, stupid a. smith was saying his sources were telling him that his people can get him out of cleveland. soon after the knicks love started, and you know the rest.

just sayin.

I think the Browns leaving was a bigger and more painful loss, but that Lebron leaving was more personal, so we hate him more. Not that we don't hate Model.

In my mind, the Browns leaving involved a lot of factors, only some of which had to do with Modell.

Lebron leaving was solely his decision, the way he did it was his sole decision, and his complete idiocy from that point until now is all him. It was a personal stab in the back from someone we thought of as family. We always knew model was a businessman from new york.

J/C

great write-up from OTL

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=101201/Cleveland

Good read, thanks!

This team sucks

Merry Christmas Everyone!

I was going to buy my dad Cavs tickets for XMAS (I tend to buy him tickets to stuff as gifts. He got a bunch of Indians tickets this past summer).

I couldn't bring myself to do it. Just couldn't bring myself to send him to a game when the team doesn't even look like they care.

So, he'll be going to a CSU Viking game instead and sitting centercourt just a few rows up (and paying upper deck Cavs game prices to do it).

I wish the WVU game was at home, but oh well.

While it does suck that they are losing, I'm also sort of glad they are losing. The reason is rebuilding and the draft. In the NBA, to rebuild, generally you have to blow it up and start over. we should get a good draft pick and couple that with some expiring contracts and you could add the pieces needed to compete. I doubt we will get a pick that high, but I would love it if we could land Sullinger here. That guy dominated this past game and sure does look like the real deal

i'd rather have Irving (assuming the foot injury is cleared)

windy hit it the other day in an interview on the rbs. said it's better that they save money and lose games, then to try and keep this thing going and become the pistons who badly overpaid for horrible players like charlie v and ben gordon.

as far as who to get, sullinger looks great, but i don't care, i just want to see this organization get another great player to build around. right now they have NOBODY. they have some decent support guys, but no true player that anyone really would build around.

part of me wants to see us get another point guard, whether it be that top lotto pick or some other way. to see what byron scott was able to do with cp3 right off the bat is a reason for cavs fans to have hope, they won 17 games before cp3 and won many as soon as they got him.

and then hopefully chris grant and dan gilbert can do a better job of putting guys around him.

the good thing is, because of what they went through. nobody is getting preferential treatment. nobody outside of gilbert and grant is going to run the cavs. nobody is going to go to player A or player B and say hey who do you like, who do you want to play with. that didn't work and this organization will be better because of that experience.

so while it blows to watch them play bad, it's for the better. but my advice would be to stay down for a while. get a few guys to build around.

It's easy for Windy to say that though, because he doesn't have to cover it. He jumped ship to write fluff pieces for a team that rebuilt in the exact opposite way that most people agree is the proper way to rebuild a struggling franchise. He's lost every iota of credibility in my opinion, but this thread isn't about Brian Windhorst.

The reality is that getting one lottery player in the draft isn't going to put this team back into contention. They're going to have lose a whole lot of ballgames, get two very lucky bounces of the ping pong ball and then hope that their picks don't bust. It's going to be a 5-year plan, minimum. If they tank seasons for draft picks, they may win a first round playoff series by 2014, and as much as Cavs fan wants to say that he doesn't care if they tank to get a high pick, he's used to watching a winning team. Five years of bad basketball isn't going to sit well at all.

Beyond that, recent history shows that the way to win has been to get a good player through the draft and surround him with other good players brought in through trade or free agency. The only championship team of the past decade whose nucleus has been homegrown talent is the Spurs. This isn't saying that the Cavs should trade for guys with bad, bloated contracts, but waiting with baited breath hoping that the ball bounces your way is going to result in a lot of disappointment, which is going to lead to a lot of empty seats in the Q for the next half-decade.

i have to disagree on both.

first of all, anyone in windy's spot would have taken that job. this wasn't lebron going to miami. this was a promotion. more money, and more exposure. any beat writer for a local paper would take that job. it's not a cleveland thing, that would happen anywhere. i don't agree with some of the things he's written, but i certainly can't blame him for taking the job. it's a huge step up in his career.

however, i will never read another thing of his again if i ever find out he knew lbj was going to miami long before the decision. i'm not saying he is, but i know he has a good relationship with lbj, and to think he was completely left in the dark kinda raises an eyebrow, but again it's something we'll probably never find out.

there are a lot of people to point at when the decision came up, not just lbj. if windy really did go to gilbert last january after he found out about the meeting with lbj/riley (tampering of the highest degree) and gilbert did nothing and then played dumb in june/july, than shame on him.

as far as playing the lotto. you might be right about waiting for that top pick, but you don't need the #1 overall to get a great player.

just the last few years...

2009
tyreke evans (4)
steph curry (7)
brandon jennings (10)
ty lawson (18)
darren collison (21)

2008
russell westbrook (4)
kevin love (5)
eric gordon (7)
brook lopez (10)

2007
kevin durant (2)
al horford (3)
joakim noah (9) (yes, i will admit he's turning into a really good 4/5)
rodney stuckey (15)
wilson chandler (23) (very underrated player on the surprise knicks)


just the last few years. you don't need the number one overall to get a good player and if you finish bad enough you're a lock for a top 3, top 5 spot.

outside of durant all those other players are complimentry all-stars. Love is developing into a monster, so he may end up into a superstar down the road. Even if the cavs get a few of those guys, you're potential is only so great. I've always been of the belief you need 1 superstar to win championships. I don't want to be like the current hawks, or past wizards that win 50 games a year only to get bounced in the 2nd rd. You look at the grizzlies. their roster is stacked with 2nd tier guys. Mayo, Gay, Randolph. Right now they're 9-14.

Look what the pitiful knicks did this offseason. Before amare they're a cellar dwellar, now they're 15-9, and on a 7 game win streak. If we don't get another superstar via the draft, we will die in mediocrity. I really believe that.

all of those guys are young. i bet many years ago you could probably say the same about kg, ray allen, and paul pierce.

but yes, having a bunch of good players via high picks doesn't always work (see atlanta) but it's the only way to go. you can't sit and bank on another lbj coming around. that is something that just kinda happens. those players only come around a few years as well.

I'm not saying building through the draft is wrong, it's just a real long shot, we match the James era of the past 7 years. As much as people hate baseball around here, it's much more realistic small market teams could compete for championships. Just the sheer size of the minor leagues. The indians have a greater chance to fill Cc''s and Lee's shoes than the cavs do with James. It may take 15-20 years to find another player like Lebron to play in a cavs uniform. That's why I still support the tribe, and mlb as a whole. The constant pumping in of players into the system.

I know why Windy took the job. It's an obvious step up, in both pay and national recognition (though I do find it humorous that he turned down previous offers from ESPN and, two months prior, he said that no matter where LBJ went he would be the Cavs' beat writer this year, but I digress). My point about him is that its easy for a pundit talk about what a team should do when what that team does has no affect on said pundit. If he was still covering the Cavs I doubt he'd be so gung ho about the Cavs wallowing around in mediocrity for four or five years. Any sports beat writer would cringe at the thought of having to write about a team that sucks.

As for why I think he's lost all credibility, first, the aforementioned empty promise about staying with the Cavs "no matter what" (his words, not mine). Second, in defending his decision to take the Miami job, lying about what his role there would be. He maintained that he was not going there to write about the Heat, but that he would be writing articles about the entire NBA and would simply be based in Miami. The truth is that he hasn't written a single article that wasn't about the Heat and/or LeBron. Third, when I hear his interviews on the radio, he talks about his upcoming piece where he's going to be "tough" on LeBron or the Heat or whoever, and yet these pieces never seem to materialize. Instead he churns out fluff. Hey, whatever, he threw his journalistic integrity out the window for more money and the chance to follow his meal ticket. Lots of people would. I probably would. It is what it is. I'm just not going to sit here and pretend that he can tell me what's best for my team.

As far as the draft goes, yeah, you obviously can get excellent players outside of the top five picks. My point is that nobody is playing for the 15th or 20th or 29th pick in the draft. The strategy being espoused here is to tank seasons to try to get top picks. If you felt that you could get the player you want or need regardless of where you're picking, then you should play your season to the best of your ability, making strategic moves if possible to help your team win as many games as possible. Then, when draft day rolls around, take your pick at your spot and keep going.

I might even go so far as to say that the likelihood of getting a star-caliber player outside the top five being about equal with getting one in the top five is evidence against the strategy of tanking. Look, I know it worked for the Cavs when we got LeBron, but thats somewhat of the exception as opposed to the rule. All I'm saying is that tanking to get a top five lottery pick doesn't guarantee that you'll get a great player, but it does guarantee that its one of the first steps to a half-decade of bad basketball. Look at the players you listed below...how many playoff series have the teams that drafted them won in the last five years? Outside of Atlanta and Detroit (who brought in their best players in free agency or trade), those teams have played some of the worst basketball of the decade.

One more thing to add...I don't think the Cavs and the city will ever fully recover from LeBron leaving. They will eventually become a competitive team again, will probably win some playoff series, maybe even make it to the Finals. However, this city had the potential for possibly the greatest story in American professional sports...child phenom grows up, plays for his hometown team and lifts them from the dregs of the league to championship glory. But it didn't happen, and probably will never happen, not just in Cleveland but in any NBA city in the country. I think the question of what could have been will hang over the city like a dark cloud for a long long time.