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Cleveland Browns have six games to prove they've escaped the ranks of the NFL's cellar-dwellers
Published: Monday, November 22, 2010, 7:02 PM Updated: Monday, November 22, 2010, 7:09 PM
Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- At some point, the Browns have to stop being a lousy team.
In the NFL, a lousy team is one that loses at least 10 games, which the Browns have done in six of the last seven seasons.
A lousy team beats Super Bowl contenders New Orleans and New England in the same season, but still finishes no better than 6-10. That's why the 3-7 Browns have to find a way to win at least four of the last six games.
This is not just about Eric Mangini and his coaching staff keeping their jobs. It's not about playing young guys -- virtually all of the top picks are regularly on the field.
It's about the Browns at least moving into the ranks of the mediocre, that mass of teams with records between 7-9 and 9-7.
It's a group that proudly can proclaim: We're not awful!
These Browns aren't terrible. These are not the Browns who lost seven games by at least two touchdowns in the 5-11 season of 2009. Or the Browns who scored only one touchdown in their final six games of the 4-12 season of 2008.
They are not the 1-9 Carolina Panthers, who come to town Sunday with a lame-duck coach in John Fox and no discernible quarterback. They are not the 2-8 Buffalo Bills, or the 2-8 Cincinnati Bengals -- both coming up on the schedule.
No matter who is the quarterback without a sprained ankle in a walking boot, the Browns should be able to beat those teams. The Browns must show their fan base -- and themselves -- that they don't stink.
They need to beat the bad teams so they know they no longer are a bad team. They need to show that "the green sticker" character guys imported by Mangini and the new front office can play hard and well in a season when the playoffs are not a possibility and several teams have players who just want to go home.
The Browns did it last season, winning their final four games. It was against rather sad competition (other than Pittsburgh), but a four-game winning streak indicated signs of progress.
So would a 7-9 -- or, especially, 8-8 -- record, putting an exclamation point next to the upbeat sentences about the team's improvement.
The most disturbing part of Sunday's 24-20 loss at Jacksonville was not the 75-yard screen pass to Maurice Jones-Drew that set up the winning touchdown. No excuse for that. But what should bother the players and coaches was how the offensive line was physically overpowered by a team with a shaky defense.
There also have to be some questions about the preparation.
Jacksonville stacked the line of scrimmage to stop the run -- which was expected. But the Jags also sacked Colt McCoy six times, the most allowed by the Browns this season.
When a defense is determined to stop the run, it rarely has a six-sack day. That's especially true against an experienced offensive line. But the Browns looked surprised by some of the formations and blitzes from Mel Tucker's Jacksonville defense, which entered the day with only 14 sacks in nine games.
In their next four games, the Browns face opponents with a combined 10-30 record. Miami is 5-5, but has major injury problems at quarterback.
So the Browns should aim to be at least 7-9, something only done three times (2001, 2002 and 2008) since the team returned in 1999. Furthermore, they have enough talent to do it.
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Good read, and I agree.
I think everybody knows the team is better, but as was said, it goes a long way to see it reflected in the record and standings.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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This is spot on.
We're now losing games in the 4th quarter instead of the 2nd. Now we need to take the next step and hold on to the lead until the final whistle.
Of course, we've twice lost games when ahead at the final whistle .... but we're different now.
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Quote:
Good read, and I agree.
I think everybody knows the team is better, but as was said, it goes a long way to see it reflected in the record and standings.
Yep, I'm about all out of interest for "moral victories" .... I still want to see progress and I don't expect to win every game and I'm still looking a little bit deeper than just the W-L but the W's need to start coming.
yebat' Putin
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Before Colt got hurt, I fully expected to be in every game and possibly run the table.
I do not believe Wallace possesses the leadership skills to win these next six, but I do hope he can fill in admirably.
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I believe Wallace can win some games, the offense needs to respond to him the way they did to Colt (in all games except the Jax game) and the offense and defense both need to play 60 minutes..
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Quote:
I think everybody knows the team is better, but as was said, it goes a long way to see it reflected in the record and standings.
We may have been better 10 days ago, but with the injuries on the O-line, the QB with the most wins in a walking boot, and teams gearing up to stop Hillis, getting to 7-9 is going to be very, very difficult, IMHO. Buffalo scorched Cincy and Cincy put up 39 points. Sure, Carolina may be a lock, (but who knows, especially if they're hungry for a win,) hard to say which Miami team shows up, (especially if they decide to play good defense the day they play us,) and pit and the rats are certainly not going to roll over against our banged up O-line and hobbling QBs. Buffalo, Cincy, pit and the rats are all have thousand yard rusher type backs, and are capable of putting up big plays. We know how well we handle those two things, especially late in the game. We may be lucky to go 5-11 at this point. 
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My hat is off to Mr. Pluto. We need to let him have this say. He is spot on as another poster noted. An 8-8 finish would astound and delight me. But it will not happen without some further changes and achievement.
Points. More points. Play the second half without playing defense forever on the field. That unit got itself off the field a crazy number of times. But the offense needs to be given some better options in plays and execute. This group catches fire when it succeeds. It is handcuffed by the sidelines IMO, moreso than it has to be.
Good teams beat the ones they should, and they find a way to win a few they shouldn't. We did that in the season earlier. But they DO NOT lose the "should wins" on a regular basis, and they win at least half of the shootouts, the close ones. And they can, when they must, win the track meets, the scorefest crazy games, able to hang with and answer an opponent's scores with their own until it goes their way. We have shown consistently a pattern of little or no scoring in the second half, inability to score when we really need it, reluctance to challenge deep and over the middle. Personnel aside, before we finish the season, somebody, Holmgren, Mangini, or Daboll needs to connect these dots and fix it so we are at least aggressively going after people, or the wins that should come may well not end up in our notch column. I am not for firing Daboll or against keeping him IF he will call a winning game as opposed to one that will not lose. We have seen that it hasn't worked. Especially in overtime and tight contests. I have always felt playing not to lose is much different than playing to win. It seems like the offensive equivalent of the horrid prevent D, like the final play when we rushed only 2. And they scored. We have games in front of us we should win. Need to decide if we will be in them to win them or playing safe. JMHO, but it feels like where Pluto is coming from.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Every team has injuries and nothing is a given but that doesn't change the fact that if you want to be considered "not awful" then you definitely have to beat Cincy, Buffalo, and Carolina and you better find a way to beat either the Dolphins, Ravens or Steelers.. and I don't want to back in by beating the Steelers because they are resting half the team either (I'll take it but I do not want that to be our 7th win.. 8th maybe)
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The only problem with agreeing with Pluto is that it means there should be no surprise or disagreement if major changes are made if we don't hit at least 7-9.
Make no mistake about it, Mangini is on perilously thin ice if we can't win a bare majority of our remaining games.
That means beating Carolina, Buffalo, Cincy (again) and one more out of Baltimore, Miami and Pittsburgh.
Can we do that? Yes. Will we? I have serious doubts. Several weeks ago I posted that I thought Mangini would be back next year with his fate decide on his W-L in 2011. Now I'm not so sure.
Like it or not we (he) has to win or we'll be welcoming a new coach by March.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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We'll see what we see. I'm hoping we we beat them all but the fact is, we're banged up and we're not playing well, especially on offense, which we will need to do (IMHO) to win under the scenario you just painted.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Escape cellar-dweller rank?
Mangini Cleveland Browns 2010 after 10 games:
Offense: 303.4yds/game (28th), 190.1yds passing (30th), 113.3yds rushing (15th)
Defense: 359.8yds/game (23rd), 243.4yds passing (23rd), 116.4yds rushing (21st), 4.1yds/rush
Crennel Cleveland Browns 2005
Offense: 284.4yds/game (26th), 190.4yds passing (23rd), 93.9yds rushing (25th)
Defense: 316.8yds/game (t16th), 179.2yds passing (4th), 137.6yds rushing (30th), 4.2yds/rush
...and that has been my argument all along....we aren't much better than Crennel's Browns, especially if you consider the FACT that we have much more talent. than he had...we are better, I agree, but Romeo did not inherit the likes of Hillis, Thomas, Steiny, (in his prime) Rubin, Rogers, (fully developed) Cribbs etc
we only "look" so much better because we were so awful last season...he should have been fired there and then, we were 32nd on Offense and 31st on D....that's inexcusable...compared to that, yeah...we have improved a lot....back to Crennel "meh" level though
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Quote:
Make no mistake about it, Mangini is on perilously thin ice if we can't win a bare majority of our remaining games.
Crazy,
I am not so sure that he is. The team is playing with an intensity not seen in some time. They seemed to be drinking his cool-aid.
In my opinion, the offense has been the weak link, and Daboll should be shaking in his boots. In fact, I for one will be shocked if he is with the team come February.
Mangini, on the other hand,......???
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Crennel team didn't have this schedule either. This was his schedule ..... 2005: (2)Bengals 11-5 Packers 4-12 Colts 14-2 Bears 11-5 (2)Ravens 6-10 Lions 5-11 Texans 2-14 Titans 4-12 (2)Steelers 11-5 Dolphins 9-7 Vikings 9-7 Jaguars 12-4 Raiders 4-12 That's 7 games against opponents with 6 or fewer wins. This season, only 10 games in, we have played 9 games against opponents who have already won at least 6 games. That's a great comparison. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And, to pile on, if the playoffs were to start tomorrow, the 6 AFC teams that would be slotted have (at least) one common opponent.
That would be the Cleveland Browns, whom they sport a 5-1 record against.
(Pitt, Balt, Jax, NYJ, KC, NE)
Our schedule is the worst in the NFL this year.
(EDIT: And I failed to do all the math here, but if the Browns were 5-1 against these teams, all but Jax would probably still be going,....)
Last edited by OoooRahJoice; 11/23/10 12:22 PM.
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Quote:
And, to pile on, if the playoffs were to start tomorrow, the 6 AFC teams that would be slotted have (at least) one common opponent.
That would be the Cleveland Browns, whom they sport a 5-1 record against.
(Pitt, Balt, Jax, NYJ, KC, NE)
Our schedule is the worst in the NFL this year.
(EDIT: And I failed to do all the math here, but if the Browns were 5-1 against these teams, all but Jax would probably still be going,....)
unless that 1 loss was to JAX 
#gmstrong
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So you're saying we are not a good football team.
I have to agree,and I guess that's what a 3-7 record indicates.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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So you're saying we are not a good football team.
I have to agree,and I guess that's what a 3-7 record indicates.
not sure where I said that. i would say it's undetermined whether we are a bad or mediocre football team this season. these next 4 games will determine it.
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There is a 3 game road trip coming up.
There is no way the Browns, ok little to no way the Browns are going to go 4-2 in their last 6 games, and that's if you include a Gimme vs the Panthers.
If the Browns can win ONE of the 3 game road trip, (hopefully Cincinnati) and beat the Gimme game vs the Panthers, and win One of the last two vs Pitts, or Baltimore, that is the best case scenario I can see.
That would be 6-10, and why should I say that, because if they were going to get the wins there have been more opportune games along the way to get them. Kansas City, and Tampa Bay and Jacksonville .
Can the Browns win on the road in the NFL?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Can the Browns win on the road in the NFL?
I asked the Saints, they seem to think that we can.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
Make no mistake about it, Mangini is on perilously thin ice if we can't win a bare majority of our remaining games.
Crazy,
I am not so sure that he is. The team is playing with an intensity not seen in some time. They seemed to be drinking his cool-aid.
You may not be sure that he's on thin ice but I sense that Holmgren might be.
I have gone back and forth on Mangini. At this point in the season he just hasn't made me feel like he always knows what he's doing. No coach is perfect but he still makes too many mistakes to make me feel as confident as most of this board seems to be.
The next 4 weeks should tell the tale.
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if they were going to get the wins there have been more opportune games along the way to get them. Kansas City, and Tampa Bay and Jacksonville .
Fun with numbers:
ok, so we had more opportune time to get wins than what we have left. And you give as examples:
KC (6-4, 1st in AFC West)
TB (7-3, 2nd in NFC South)
JAX (6-4, 1st in AFC South)
Are those 3 examples really "more opportune" than our current 4 game slate?
Carolina (2-8, last in NFC South --- you did include them as a 'gimmee' though)
Miami (5-5, 3rd in AFC East, now with Tyler Thigpen at QB)
Buffalo (2-8, last in AFC East)
Cinci (2-8, last in AFC North)
Sorry, but going against 3 teams in last place and another in 3rd place but on it's QB3 is a heck of a lot better of a time to get wins than going against 2 teams in 1st place and another in 2nd.
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I'm hoping we can at least win half of the remaining 6 games. Any more will be gravy and if we can manage to somehow beat either the steelers or ravens and have a say in how the play offs will shake out.
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All Pro
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Quote:
Escape cellar-dweller rank?
Mangini Cleveland Browns 2010 after 10 games:
Offense: 303.4yds/game (28th), 190.1yds passing (30th), 113.3yds rushing (15th)
Defense: 359.8yds/game (23rd), 243.4yds passing (23rd), 116.4yds rushing (21st), 4.1yds/rush
Crennel Cleveland Browns 2005
Offense: 284.4yds/game (26th), 190.4yds passing (23rd), 93.9yds rushing (25th)
Defense: 316.8yds/game (t16th), 179.2yds passing (4th), 137.6yds rushing (30th), 4.2yds/rush
...and that has been my argument all along....we aren't much better than Crennel's Browns, especially if you consider the FACT that we have much more talent. than he had...we are better, I agree, but Romeo did not inherit the likes of Hillis, Thomas, Steiny, (in his prime) Rubin, Rogers, (fully developed) Cribbs etc
we only "look" so much better because we were so awful last season...he should have been fired there and then, we were 32nd on Offense and 31st on D....that's inexcusable...compared to that, yeah...we have improved a lot....back to Crennel "meh" level though
Crennel's Browns weren't as competitive, especially against good teams. We've led in the fourth quarter of every game this season except the Pittsburgh game. You gotta be blind or ignorant to think this isn't a better team than those lousy 2005 Browns. I don't think Crennel won a division game or beat a team with a winning record hardly ever in his 4 years as coach.
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Quote:
The only problem with agreeing with Pluto is that it means there should be no surprise or disagreement if major changes are made if we don't hit at least 7-9.
Make no mistake about it, Mangini is on perilously thin ice if we can't win a bare majority of our remaining games.
That means beating Carolina, Buffalo, Cincy (again) and one more out of Baltimore, Miami and Pittsburgh.
Can we do that? Yes. Will we? I have serious doubts. Several weeks ago I posted that I thought Mangini would be back next year with his fate decide on his W-L in 2011. Now I'm not so sure.
Like it or not we (he) has to win or we'll be welcoming a new coach by March.
I don't disagree with you, but i think we have to see how things play out.
I like what Mangini brings but wouldn't be opposed to a new OC.
Coaches are faithful to coaches who are faithful to them....to a fault at times, and sometimes it takes a outside voice...owner/GM to get the head coach to budge.
I think we can win with Mangini, but we do have to get the O moving more.
Now, how much of that is caused be no receivers, poor play calling, Mangini, I don't know.
In the end I tend to think it is lack of talent on that side of the ball. Every play called is designed to gain positive yards.
I know it doesn't work that way.....just saying.
I don't think anybody can disagree that with a young QB with young receivers, one of which can't seem to ever get open, it puts the OC, players, and team at a disadvantage.
My question with Dabol is why isn't Moore's number called more....or even why he isn't on the field more???
I agree....he isn't fast, but seems to get open and seems to catch everything anywhere close to catchable....I'd start looking at him as the number 1 until we actually get a top receiver.
The fact the Jets put Revis on him tells me other teams seem to think he is a guy who can beat you without blanket coverage.
But to your statement....I can't answer at this point....I might be mad, I might not....let's call it a state of limbo right now.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Crennel's Browns weren't as competitive, especially against good teams. We've led in the fourth quarter of every game this season except the Pittsburgh game. You gotta be blind or ignorant to think this isn't a better team than those lousy 2005 Browns. I don't think Crennel won a division game or beat a team with a winning record hardly ever in his 4 years as coach.
Which part of "we are better" didn't you get in my post you even quoted (!)? Jesus, do you guys actually read what I post?
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j/c
Ya know, most of the Browns fans I regularly talk with just wanted to see improvement. They would have accepted being competative game in and game out as just that.
Well we have that. But pre-season, I expected we'd win 6 games. I still believe we will.
You know if you truely look at it, it's taken three years to turn KC around if you do the math.
Pioli was a huge part of that but was hired in January of 2009. So yes Pioli made a big difference. But look at what was built before he got there. Cassel was signed in 2009. In 2008 they had the youngest overall team roster in the NFL.
Ya know.............
That's an infusion of youth in 2008.
Upgrading the QB position in 2009
Then enter Pioli with his talent before the 2010 season
Kinda sounds like a three year progession doesn't it? How did they do in that second year in 2009?
Ah, never mind...........................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
And, to pile on, if the playoffs were to start tomorrow, the 6 AFC teams that would be slotted have (at least) one common opponent.
That would be the Cleveland Browns, whom they sport a 5-1 record against.
(Pitt, Balt, Jax, NYJ, KC, NE)
Our schedule is the worst in the NFL this year.
(EDIT: And I failed to do all the math here, but if the Browns were 5-1 against these teams, all but Jax would probably still be going,....)
unless that 1 loss was to JAX
Let's figure that out,....the Browns would be 7-3, with a loss to Jax,...Jax would still be tied with Indy,....so either the Steelers or Baltimore would be "going home," eh ? 
I was originally assuming the exact converse,..that 5-1 meant we had lost to New England and beaten the others, and that the playoff picture wouldn't be that much different, except for maybe Browns in, Jags out. But as you pointed out, that's probably not true either.
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They need to beat the bad teams so they know they no longer are a bad team. They need to show that "the green sticker" character guys imported by Mangini and the new front office can play hard and well in a season when the playoffs are not a possibility and several teams have players who just want to go home.
Uh I like smart players but I'll take some real ballers over 'smart players"..I can name a lot of smart players this team has had and they really haven't done anything..practically all of the 09 draft is gone and one ,won't mention any names(Robo) looks confused...
The most disturbing part of Sunday's 24-20 loss at Jacksonville was not the 75-yard screen pass to Maurice Jones-Drew that set up the winning touchdown. No excuse for that. But what should bother the players and coaches was how the offensive line was physically overpowered by a team with a shaky defense.
O.k that junior varsity display tackling was pathic.
But what should bother the players and coaches was how the offensive line was physically overpowered by a team with a shaky defense.
There also have to be some questions about the preparation.
Jacksonville stacked the line of scrimmage to stop the run -- which was expected. But the Jags also sacked Colt McCoy six times, the most allowed by the Browns this season.
When a defense is determined to stop the run, it rarely has a six-sack day. That's especially true against an experienced offensive line. But the Browns looked surprised by some of the formations and blitzes from Mel Tucker's Jacksonville defense, which entered the day with only 14 sacks in nine games.
Several things here bear repeating..first,Jags do a good front 4..will give them that..but it stops there.They were fired up and ready to slap people around.The Browns Oline wasn't in a fight mood.
They have [pounded better defenses before this so getting up for the Jags should have been easier considering that team is fighting for a playoff spot.
They didn't ready for the fronts(which they've seen before) nor the stunts,nor the mixing of coverages which is really surprising.
Colt let it out that they need to rethink the plays..seriously???
I coulda told you that..pretty much the last 6 opponents have stacked the line to stuff Hillis and the Browns still pounded holes in them..now the Jags secondary is inept but they managed to bottled up the recievers and make McCoy change his reads..but your OC/HC did absolutely little to counter what they were throwing at the offense..which is amazing because it looked like the offense that was in the first two games..conservative..
This is something that seems..no it is part of Mangini ..at NY Mangini was criticized for his in-game decisions and failure to make in-game adjustments, and that has not improved here..it's still a huge issue.
How did McCoy get sacked six times by a team that only had 14 sacks in the previous 9 games, especially when their best pass rusher just went on IR?
It seems that when the Browns are playing a superior team, like the Saints or Patriots, they realize they have to take chances and be unpredictable to win, so you see an agressive offense with some trick plays sprinkled in.
When they play a team they consider inferior, like Jax, they button it up and play conservative, figuring they'll win on superior talent if they don't make mistakes.
So the game remains close and they find a way to lose at the end.
The offensive line was completely destroyed by the Jags front four. I have to believe the loss of Womack and Yates was huge. Lauvao was a rookie starting his first game. St. Clair is a black hole. This team doesn't have the depth to overcome the loss of two starting linemen plus Cribbs. Also, Watson sat out a portion of the game and had no catches.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/24/10 09:33 AM.
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Uh I like smart players but I'll take some real ballers over 'smart players"..I can name a lot of smart players this team has had and they really haven't done anything..
There is a reason Princeton only makes a run in the NCAA tournament about once every 10 years...
yebat' Putin
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I think we've seen from the players drafted in the secondary this year, both Ward and Hayden are very physical players that once they mature a little more, could be very dominant secondary players.
When I look at both Fujita and Hillis, once again physical playmakers that are good, solid football players.
Colt, while still raw, is a gritty kid, that while still wet behind the ears to a great extent. But I see playmakers and potential playmakers being brought in by MH.
This off-season, I expect to see yet another handfull of playmakers brought in as well.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Really no excuse for the Browns to win anything less than 3 games. No reason they shouldn't win at least 3 of these 4 games (if not all): panthers, bills, dolphins, bengals.
Things are looking good for Mangini right now, but if they only manage to get 1 win over these 6 games, people are going to be calling for his head.
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Dawg Talker
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Really no excuse for the Browns to win anything less than 3 games. No reason they shouldn't win at least 3 of these 4 games (if not all): panthers, bills, dolphins, bengals.
Things are looking good for Mangini right now, but if they only manage to get 1 win over these 6 games, people are going to be calling for his head.
you are new to the board and haven't read posts from Akron Joe and Django. They were calling for his head before he even arrived in Berea
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Really no excuse for the Browns to win anything less than 3 games. No reason they shouldn't win at least 3 of these 4 games (if not all): panthers, bills, dolphins, bengals.
Things are looking good for Mangini right now, but if they only manage to get 1 win over these 6 games, people are going to be calling for his head.
Welcome to the board 
I think that's a pretty fair assumption.
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At this point I would rathter just see these guys continue to fight until the final second ticks off the clock. We are a couple of play makers away from being a playoff caliber team. WR, and Passrusher being our biggest needs...this can be done with another solid draft! Also need to re-sign our guys who are going to hit the FA market....we actually have talent to re-sign and cant afford to let them slip away!
Vickers, Roth, are two that come to mind as must re-sign....
So to answer the question I am not concerned nor worried about how many wins we finish the year with as it does nothing but ruin draft position at this point in the season.
#brownsgoodkarma
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At this point I would rathter just see these guys continue to fight until the final second ticks off the clock. We are a couple of play makers away from being a playoff caliber team. WR, and Passrusher being our biggest needs...this can be done with another solid draft! Also need to re-sign our guys who are going to hit the FA market....we actually have talent to re-sign and cant afford to let them slip away!
Vickers, Roth, are two that come to mind as must re-sign....
So to answer the question I am not concerned nor worried about how many wins we finish the year with as it does nothing but ruin draft position at this point in the season.
It could determine the coaching staff though.
I agree though, this team is close to being a playoff team. They need a playmaker WR on offense. Next season could be a big year for the Browns. They have the NFC west on their schedule I believe.
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Quote:
At this point I would rathter just see these guys continue to fight until the final second ticks off the clock. We are a couple of play makers away from being a playoff caliber team. WR, and Passrusher being our biggest needs...this can be done with another solid draft! Also need to re-sign our guys who are going to hit the FA market....we actually have talent to re-sign and cant afford to let them slip away!
Vickers, Roth, are two that come to mind as must re-sign....
So to answer the question I am not concerned nor worried about how many wins we finish the year with as it does nothing but ruin draft position at this point in the season.
It could determine the coaching staff though.
I agree though, this team is close to being a playoff team. They need a playmaker WR on offense. Next season could be a big year for the Browns. They have the NFC west on their schedule I believe.
I think Mangini, Ryan, and even Daboll are safe.....they have shown alot of improvement. Out of the three I would say Daboll is the only one who has anything to worry about. Ryan could possibly become headcoach somewhere else tho, he has earned it. And I think I am finally starting to see thie "process" work...I am sure Holmgren sees it too.
we can with a solid draft and FA period turn this team into a playoff contender....gotta keep the guys who are going to hit Free Agency, and let the scrubs go and improve in our weak areas. Its very doable for next year!
#brownsgoodkarma
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Next season could be a big year for the Browns. They have the NFC west on their schedule I believe.
Then so does the rest of the division. If we are to be a playoff team, we have to be able to consistently beat the teams in our division.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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consistently beat everyone...
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This is something that seems..no it is part of Mangini ..at NY Mangini was criticized for his in-game decisions and failure to make in-game adjustments, and that has not improved here..it's still a huge issue.
1st I think much of what you said is valid Attack, but some of what you said is just a case of MMQBing.
Sure it’s easy to say on Monday they should have done this, this, and this. You can always do that.
I still don’t know what in game adjustments were called for. We held the lead for nearly the entire game. We had 6 turnovers with our defense and it’s easy to argue that you never ever do anything to help a team that is having difficulties hanging onto the ball get back in the game by turning the ball over yourself. You limit your risk and make them catch you. It makes prefect sense, especially when they were on a turnover roll.
If you do that the argument then shifts from why did the Browns start throwing the ball when they had Hillis in the backfield and we had mowed holes in every defense we have faced this season excluding the Steelers and the Jags aren’t the Steelers. And we did so successful in every instance. I guess knowing all that letting it fly makes sense??  
I will always argue that you don’t take unnecessary risks with the ball in these situations. You have the lead (that’s the key), you have had a pretty effective running game all year (key number 2), I fail to see where that’s a bad strategy? It makes sense. 
Sure come Monday mourning and it didn’t work it was the wrong strategy but was it at the time? I don’t think so. The fact that we lost says it was the wrong strategy,  but that is only so on Monday mourning, not on Sunday afternoon.
When you say that Mangini has never been good at in game adjustments what is it that he failed at. When the Jags came back and tied the game, the Browns promptly opened up the passing game and drove the length of the field and scored a FG.
I’m sorry I can’t see where getting the lead and protecting it while trying to run out the clock is a bad strategy. I can’t see where putting the ball in Hillis’ hands is a bad strategy. It didn’t work I guess that makes it bad, but at the time it made sense it just didn’t work. 
The Browns had 3 series where they went run, run, throw, punt, in the second half with the lead. I know the O Line was getting man handled, I know Colt wasn’t getting time to throw and I know that Hillis has proven to be a pretty tuff dude when yards were hard to come by. I don’t know what I would have done in similar circumstances, but protecting the lead would have been pretty high up on my priority list. And keeping the pressure on the Jags offense that was sputtering right along with our own sputtering would have been a priority as well. Remember we had the lead.
The rest of what you said I pretty much agree with. I never agree with MMQB’s though…..It’s way to easy……………….
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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