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LINK Cavaliers probing Heat’s signing of James CLEVELAND – The Cleveland Cavaliers have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into a high-powered Midwestern law firm to investigate their suspicions that the Miami Heat broke NBA tampering rules while pursuing LeBron James(notes), and owner Dan Gilbert has privately vowed he won’t relent until he has a thick binder of findings to drop on the desk of the NBA commissioner, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The NBA won’t launch an investigation into a tampering case without a formal request from a team, but sources say Gilbert’s plan is to give commissioner David Stern a detailed case that includes meetings, phone calls and contingency plans that date as far back as 2008. Gilbert will implore Stern to use his powers as commissioner to get access to phone records and testimony of key people surrounding Heat president Pat Riley, James and others potentially involved. Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has hired a law firm to investigate whether the Heat violated NBA rules in their recruitment of LeBron James. Gilbert has spent several hundred thousand dollars on the investigation and will spare no expense to uncover whatever evidence he can to take to the league office, two sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo! Sports. The law firm staff includes several former prosecutors with backgrounds in investigating and constructing cases, sources said. Prior to the start of free agency on July 1, no Miami Heat representative – including star Dwyane Wade(notes) – was allowed to discuss with James the specific circumstances around Wade, Toronto’s Chris Bosh(notes) and James joining together with the Heat. One focus of the law firm’s probe includes an alleged Riley-James meeting in Miami in November 2009, and a meeting of James’ inner circle with Wade in Chicago in June 2010, sources said. Riley, James, Wade and Bosh have denied there was a predetermined collusion in the historic free-agent binge, although the players have admitted to discussing the possibility of playing together as far back as the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. When approached about the story on Tuesday night at Cleveland’s Quicken Loans Arena, Gilbert declined to answer questions from Yahoo! Sports. As one league source told Yahoo! Sports: The Cavs are “determined to get everything out there. They’re not letting go of this. They’re not going to just let this die.” Potential penalties for tampering could include front-office suspensions, fines and losses of draft picks. Many teams are suspicious of the league office’s desire to investigate these kind of cases because of the potential embarrassment to the league. This revelation makes for one more dramatic storyline to James’ return to Cleveland on Thursday night. Gilbert escalated Cleveland’s fervor over losing James when he issued a scathing email about James on the night of the two-time MVP’s television decision. For that diatribe, Stern fined Gilbert $100,000.
![[Linked Image from i45.tinypic.com]](http://i45.tinypic.com/adhq2o.gif)
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Suppose collusion is proven,...it doesn't reverse anything that's happened.
I became so ill at this issue, I can honestly say I haven't watched a single dribble of NBA basketball this year, after publicly swearing off of it.
I heard on the radio this morning that San Antonio has the league's best record. That's all I know.
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Maybe they'll just force LeBron to go join the NFL? I'm not too sure what the league could do for Riley, Wade, or Bosh but I'm sure Stern could get creative.
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Quote:
Suppose collusion is proven,...it doesn't reverse anything that's happened.
That we don't know actually at this point.
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I wish Gilbert would focus on rebuilding the team instead of focusing on getting revenge on Lebron.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Suppose collusion is proven,...it doesn't reverse anything that's happened.
perhaps not, but it is imperative for the NBA to survive long-term that they don't allow collusion to go idly by.
teams (and more importantly fans who buy the tickets) need to at least believe on the surface that everything is on the up-and-up and that players do not plot to abandon their teams years in advance and perhaps don't give full effort in the playoffs as a result of it.
the NBA most likely enjoys the Heat and the media activity associated with them, however they also know it is important to keep the league alive in all of its cities. there must be some deterrent in place if collusion can be proven.
take the NE video-tape scandal. the NFL didn't actually strip their superbowl trophies, but they fined them heavily and took away a 1st round draft pick. now, at the first hint of another one in Denver, the owner is quick to fire the man responsible and is handing over info to the NFL (he doesn't want the same stain and the loss of draft picks).
#gmstrong
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I had a heated email exchange with a PR guy at the NBA headquarters when I asked for a copy of the NBA rules that related to this issue.. We sent a few emails back and forth and finally, he just told me to go to hell...LOL I was unrelenting,, But anyway, he insisted that there was absolutly no wrong doing.. I never did get the rules from him  I have the feeling I wasn't the only person questioning this deal. don't know what the end result is going to be.. if the Cavs can prove that there were rules broken, I'm not sure what the penality will be... I'm pretty sure that the deal won't be voided...so unless there is a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow,, it's probably a wasted effort. I would think that the worth of the Cavs took a severe hit when James left. I'd think that has to be recouped.. Gees, that could be a ton of money,, 10s of millions maybe even..
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/01/10 07:49 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You should post these emails if you'd be cool with that. I'd like to see what their offices said about all this.
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You should post these emails if you'd be cool with that. I'd like to see what their offices said about all this.
You know, I might still have them,, i'll look and see.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Make sure you leave your email address on them. That way I can send you some profanity laced emails. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I wish Gilbert would focus on rebuilding the team instead of focusing on getting revenge on Lebron.
I agree, time to move on. He didn't want to be here and proving the Heat tampered isn't going to change that. Move on and build like you said Mr. Gilbert and try to make good your promise to win a ring before Lebron does.
Unless the NBA rules they did break rules, suspends Lebron, fines Miami and the Cavs get the next two 1st overal picks as compensation then I don't see where this is going to help.
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This was my point (above),...what's done is done.
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you can look into this, as you should, and still have complete focus on basketball operations and rebuilding the cavs. it's not like you can't fully do both.
i don't think this is really news unless the league finds very credible evidence, which i doubt they will, but as an organization you should absolutely look into what happened, if you believe there is something there.
and it could actually help the cause for the cavs, as it could net us a draft pick, or two, and maybe some other kind of compensation.
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you can look into this, as you should, and still have complete focus on basketball operations and rebuilding the cavs. it's not like you can't fully do both.
i don't think this is really news unless the league finds very credible evidence, which i doubt they will, but as an organization you should absolutely look into what happened, if you believe there is something there.
and it could actually help the cause for the cavs, as it could net us a draft pick, or two, and maybe some other kind of compensation.
And it's not like he cant' do both. he's hired lawyers to do this, and he's hired other people to rebuild the team.
If it wanted to, which it won't, the NBA could void their contracts and prohibit them from signing with the heat. Nothing prevents them from doing that.
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When you own a multi-million dollar business and someone or some people go behind your back and cheat, you have EVERY right to go after them. You guys saying that what's done is done, is just ridiculous. I'd venture a guess you've never owned a business. It's his right as the owner of the business to know that he was not cheated. It's his right to pursue this, spend the money, do whatever he wants to push this to the commissioner's office. And if this was 'accidentally' leaked the night before, oops... 
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You're right about the business end, I don't care about it at all. I'm talking about LeBron's character, taking a dump on the franchise and the people who supported him. I don't care about the NBA anymore. So what's done IS done.
Read between the lines once in awhile before you call what anyone says ridiculous. Especially those of us who do own their own businesses. Your ventured guess wasn't very good.
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Quote:
Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has hired a law firm to investigate whether the Heat violated NBA rules in their recruitment of LeBron James.
Gilbert has spent several hundred thousand dollars on the investigation and will spare no expense to uncover whatever evidence he can to take to the league office, two sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo! Sports. The law firm staff includes several former prosecutors with backgrounds in investigating and constructing cases, sources said.
This revelation makes for one more dramatic storyline to James’ return to Cleveland on Thursday night. Gilbert escalated Cleveland’s fervor over losing James when he issued a scathing email about James on the night of the two-time MVP’s television decision. For that diatribe, Stern fined Gilbert $100,000.
What a big waist of money. You would think he would use his time, efforts and money into his casinos and his teams current situation, instead of going on a witch hunt. Several houndred thousands of dollars spent of Quickens Loans money spent on NOTHING..... deep pocketed lawers. If he was so concerned about jobs and the economy, like when he sold those ideas to construct casinos and get those laws passed, he could be using that money to do Gods work and refurbishing these low income houses around Cleveland.....hire local contractors...buy local mercahndise to refurbish these houses going for $10,000 that where sold for 3-5 times that much...then the locals in return would have more money to go out and spend at his casinos if they choose to do so. He dont sound like a businessman that worked his way up with hard work. I do miss having Gorden Gund around. I think Gilbert is more concerned with having egg on his face and getting his name in the paper, then he is with his current team. In return shows dissrespect and lack of confidence to the current players on the team.
In the name of the Cavs, he needs to get his name in the paper doing good instead of witch hunts, tirades and casinos.
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i don't agree with any of that.
but my thing with dan gilbert and the entire tampering/recruitment thing is that if it is true, and windy seems to have confirmed it, that dan knew about this during last season, that shame on him. should have done something then.
i know in hindsight it's easy to say that but during the year you didn't want to rock the boat, but if you're dan gilbert, the week leading up to the decision, your star player was mum on free agency all year, stops returning your calls in the weeks leading up to the decision, and miami makes a few moves to allow for 3 max guys, how do you not know he's gone? if cavs fans knew what he knew, it would have been much easier on them.
i have no problem with him going after it now, that's his deal, that's the cavs' business, but i think he should have gone after this immediately instead of waiting until after the fact.
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It's not a witch hunt ... it's making sure the league you have a good chunk of your investment in is on the up-and-up. What's the point of "moving on" and improving the roster, if guys are just going to continue to collude behind your back and build a handful of super-teams??
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I had a heated email exchange with a PR guy at the NBA headquarters when I asked for a copy of the NBA rules that related to this issue..
We sent a few emails back and forth and finally, he just told me to go to hell...
Didn't know Phil Savage was working for the NBA now. 
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Make sure you leave your email address on them. That way I can send you some profanity laced emails.
Ha,,, My name isn't MAC.... 
The following is the letter I sent to a guy from the NBA.. He's some kinda publicity dude.. Shaun Powell..
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To: powellnba <powellnba@aol.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 11, 2010 9:06 am
Subject: NBA.com: Disappointed Cavs owner hits LeBron with verbal rampage
Mr. Powell
Let me explain something to you so you understand what the general feelings
are here in the Cleveland area.
First and foremost, there isn't many if any reasonable people that hate LBJ
for leaving. I think by now, at least in NE Ohio, we know that sports is
first a business.. If you remember, we lost our Browns in 1995 to
Baltimore.. We know, we understand that business is business.
In most cases, what the fans didn't like was the manner in which LBJ
announced his move.
Come on,, did the fans that supported him from his High School days really
deserve to be kicked in the groin in that manner? Call it whatever you want,
justify it anyway you want, nobody from here deserved that.
Neither did Dan Gilbert who has sunk millions into the team to find players
to put around LBJ to win. He built a state of the art training facility, and
as we've recently discovered, employed some of LBJ's posse. (something I
might add that Chicago wasn't willing to do but that the Heat was)
It's the manner with which he gave this region, the fans, cities of Akron
and Cleveland and the Cavs the finger.
It should be noted that Gilberts franchise probably lost about 250 million
in value. How the hell would you feel if one manipulative SOB decided to
steal 250k out of your pocket? I'd be bitter and my guess is, so would you.
Speaking of Manipulative,, how do you explain all the issues surrounding
the tampering and collusion between the Heat, Pat Riley, Wade, Bosh and
James? Don't you dare tell me there wasn't any collusion. Don't even think
about it.
It's well documented yet, your wonderful league has decided not to
investigate it. NOTHING. Not a freaking word from the NBA..
I am very much against government intervention in the private sector. But
maybe the NBA needs looked into.
I believe with all my heart and sole that the NBA and Mr. Stern were well
aware of what was happening behind the scenes. I'm convinced that they knew
about it and did nothing.. NOTHING! I don't trust you or the league to
investigate the matter, it's pretty clear to me and others that the League
itself, by allowing this to take place, colluded with the other parties
involved.
I supposed one has to allow that if they didn't know, then they could plead
incompetence.. But short of that, they allowed it.
I hope Dan Gilbert sues the league, Mr. Stern, the Heat Owners, Riley, Wade,
Bosh and James. I hope to hell he takes it as far as the law allows.
So as far as this letter goes, I don't think he went far enough., I think he
should have called him a few other things... Many things come to mind.
Dan Gilbert, in my opinion, showed great restraint. I'd have gone a LOT
further.
I find it very interesting that you are willing to call out Dan Gilbert for
his letter, but unwilling to call out the league, The Heat and those players
involved on their actions.
But then again, you work for the NBA,, so why would I expect you to take an
honest look at it..
Mr. Powell, you need to take a look at the man in the mirror and decide if
you want to be a reporter of fact, or a puppet on a string. Good luck with
that.
Sincerely,
here was his response to that:
Quote:
Rick, you said a mouthful here. And presented it well. On certain points, we'll just agree to disagree. All the millions Gilbert sank into a practice facility was done for the Cavs franchise, not LeBron. And if Gilbert employed some of LeBron's "posse" then that's on the owner. Perhaps Gilbert, in doing so, was creating the monster he is know criticizing as egotistical? Hmmm, I wonder how LeBron got that way? Oh, yeah, from people kissing his ring and bending over backwards to accomodate him and his posse.
I certainly understand the anger in Cleveland and also within Gilbert. I never had issue with that. I only had issue with the way Gilbert vented. Nothing more, nothing less.
thanks for writing.
shaun
Note: of all the points I brought out, he chose the "employing his posse" to make a point out of.. this guy was pretty lame... wouldn't last 10 minutes on this message board without being torn to shreds...
What that was all about was that Powell wrote a PR piece chastising Gilbert on the NBA Website.. I took exception to it and wrote the first letter..
I will not post the rest of Powels comments in subsequent emails,, anyone that's been around me for any length of time knows I'm not into all the profanity and vulgarity that can spew from an angry person.. Those will forever be locked away..
Now,, this is what I wrote to the NBA..
Quote:
Hello
I have a question for all you folks at NBA Headquarters..
In the last few days, there is a very strong appearance that the Miami Heat Ownership, Team President Pat Riley, D. Wade, C. Bosh and Lebron James have been planning the scenario that played out last Thursday with the announcement by Lebron James that he will be taking his talents to South Beach to play for the heat.
My question to you is this, is there a clear violation of league rules? Is this collusion on the part of the team, team officials and those three players?
You have to be aware that there is a smoking gun there. There is no way that this wasn't discussed in detail by those individuals.
My other question is, does the league have the stones to take action?
I've come to the conclusion that the league and Mr. Stern doesn't given that there is not even a mention of this issue on your website.
If you aren't going to police yourselves, don't be surprised when you end up with Egg on your face just like BP and the rest of the Oil Industry.
This one "non-action" on your part could be the undoing of your league..
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Rick
And here is thier response.
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Dear Rick:
Thank you for contacting the National Basketball Association with your concerns about LeBron James’s decision to sign with the Miami Heat.
While LeBron’s decision to leave the Cleveland Cavaliers – and the manner in which he announced that decision – inspired passionate reactions from many fans, he was fully in his rights to move to the Miami Heat. All NBA players, having negotiated for free agency rights in their Collective Bargaining Agreement with the league, are free to seek employment with any team during certain points in their careers, and LeBron followed all league and union guidelines in exercising his right to do so.
As Commissioner Stern stated recently, players are free to talk among each other, whether at a Players Association meeting, a collective bargaining meeting, an All-Star Game, as teammates on an Olympic team, or elsewhere. That is not tampering or collusion, and the NBA has no reason to investigate the issue further at this time.
Thank you again for sharing your concerns with us. We appreciate your feedback and your interest in the NBA.
Sincerely,
NBA Fan Relations
Take all of this for whatever you think it's worth..
I was pretty frustrated but not that LBJ left,, it was within his rights as player to do so.. I've never condemned the man for that.. I do however, feel he's a jerk for the way he handled or should I say, Mishandled, the announcement.
Of course, LBJ says that ESPN paid him 3 mill or something like that to do the show and that he gave that money to the Boys club or some such organization... While I think that's terrific, I question whether it was worth throwing all his Cleveland fans, the owner of the Cavs, the vendors that built businesses around the arena and this town, under a bus...
Seems to me that the kid is supposedly worth several hundred million.. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have given the money to the boys club out of my pocket and done right by those in Cleveland....
But then agian, I'm not the type that needs my ego stroked every day.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
I had a heated email exchange with a PR guy at the NBA headquarters when I asked for a copy of the NBA rules that related to this issue..
We sent a few emails back and forth and finally, he just told me to go to hell...
Didn't know Phil Savage was working for the NBA now.
LOL It was kinda like that.. the emails with the profanity,, well, I'm just not going to post that garbage... But yeah,, he got a bit testy with me...LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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actually, i believe it was 6m that was made for the decision and about 2-3 went to the b&g club, jim gray got a very small piece, and nobody knows where the rest went.
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WTF your name isn't Daman?! Well that burst my bubble ...
There are no sacred cows.
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He's also not hot. Sorry to rub salt in your wounds. 
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actually, i believe it was 6m that was made for the decision and about 2-3 went to the b&g club, jim gray got a very small piece, and nobody knows where the rest went.
Yeah, I knew it was something like that.. wasn't sure of all the details.. I did hear him say on an interview with someone, Not sure who, that it netted 3 mill to the boys club or a similar orgainzation.. I didn't know there was more money involved.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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WTF your name isn't Daman?! Well that burst my bubble ...
LOL No, my real name is Rick..... sorry to hear about your bubble man
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He's also not hot. Sorry to rub salt in your wounds.
funny,, but you are the one with "Dawg" in your name
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And proud of it! You claim you don't need your ego stroked....I guess people who think they are hot and even put it in their screen name do their own stroking. 
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And proud of it!
You claim you don't need your ego stroked....I guess people who think they are hot and even put it in their screen name do their own stroking.
I'm really not that kinda guy,,, don't really care that much about my ego,, it's intact,, but doesn't need to be stroked at all..
As for the name,, it was a joke a million years ago and it just stuck...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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i have never read it that way Jules, thats for clearing that up. I always read it as daman shot. like he was a hunter or something ...  lol
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i have never read it that way Jules, thats for clearing that up. I always read it as daman shot. like he was a hunter or something ... lol
OK,, I can live with that
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
i have never read it that way Jules, thats for clearing that up. I always read it as daman shot. like he was a hunter or something ... lol
OK,, I can live with that
But if you're a hunter, and you shot daman, you'd be a bad, bad hunter.
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Nope. The dude likes himself. 
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
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i have never read it that way Jules, thats for clearing that up. I always read it as daman shot. like he was a hunter or something ... lol
OK,, I can live with that
But if you're a hunter, and you shot daman, you'd be a bad, bad hunter.
daman ... shot! i dont know what i was thinking. maybe like see dick run or something.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,513
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,513 |
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i have never read it that way Jules, thats for clearing that up. I always read it as daman shot. like he was a hunter or something ... lol
OK,, I can live with that
But if you're a hunter, and you shot daman, you'd be a bad, bad hunter.
It wouldn't be the first time I've had a self inflicted wound,,, probably won't be the last
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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What a big waist of money.
well, I think Shaq is the one with the big waist, but what Gilbert is doing is not necessarily a waste of money.
1. He could force the NBA to step up their lax enforcement of tampering rules.
2. He could net extra draft picks (1st rounders cost ~$3mil, which would offset his cost of the investigation itself)
3. He could become the 'champion owner' of the smaller markets and well respected in that circle, which would allow him to be more influential in NBA policy going forward.
Not a waste by any stretch if he manages to achieve his goals.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,513
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,513 |
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What a big waist of money.
well, I think Shaq is the one with the big waist, but what Gilbert is doing is not necessarily a waste of money.
1. He could force the NBA to step up their lax enforcement of tampering rules.
2. He could net extra draft picks (1st rounders cost ~$3mil, which would offset his cost of the investigation itself)
3. He could become the 'champion owner' of the smaller markets and well respected in that circle, which would allow him to be more influential in NBA policy going forward.
Not a waste by any stretch if he manages to achieve his goals.
I'm not sure if any of that can be accomplished.. but it sounds right and it sounds like the target..
You can't forget that Lebron leaving hurt the networth of the Cavs Franchise. I know I know,, thems the breaks.. But if what occured was because of some illegal or unethical breach, then surely Gilbert can go back and get some kinda settlement from the league and the Heat and maybe from the players themselves..
While I question if he can win, I applaud his efforts...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
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It's not a witch hunt ... it's making sure the league you have a good chunk of your investment in is on the up-and-up. What's the point of "moving on" and improving the roster, if guys are just going to continue to collude behind your back and build a handful of super-teams??
Exactly.
A few hundred thousand is chump change to Gilbert and it can be an insurance policy that this crap doesn't happen anymore to his investment in the team and the NBA.
To those of you say move on and build the team....That's what he has a GM for!! This is ZERO distraction to the building process and in the long run, best for this team and for the stupid NBA. Its HIS money and HIS investment. How about some of you guys GET OVER the fact Gilbert is doing what a damn good business man would do. Protect his franchise and fans. I bet there are a lot of smaller market owners hoping Gilbert hits a home run with this.
"My signature line goes here."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061 |
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Nope. The dude likes himself.
Well somebody has to.
#gmstrong
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