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I know that Ryan gets a ton of love around here, but I honestly question why. These past few weeks show me that while his scheme's look good at times, he still does not have a complete scheme.
Defensively, this team has squandered fourth quarter leads all year. When it is late and we have the lead, they rush three and drop the rest into coverage. This results in teams not having to throw to gain yards, just hand off up the middle.
I question his personnel choices also. Playing Barton over Bowens early in the year had me baffled. The constant leaving of Eric Wright on an island while having a rookie safety behind him makes me scratch my head.
Then there's the tackling issue. When Mangini was brought here, I remember him saying how they did tackling drills at every practice. WTF happened to that. I read that this week they practiced in pads Wednesday, I hope that tackiling was the order of the day. These are professional players, when they are performing worse as the year progresses, I have to blame the coache,s approach. Ryan is the DC, and unless things changed over the years the defense is his problem. IMO he needs to get down to basics with his players and prove he can coach a player proper technique and form.
Many claim he will probably be gone next year for a head coaching job, I can't see why. This defense is the same old story that has been here since Romeo and before. Poor tackling, and a lack of desire in the fourth quarter. To me these problems come from poor coaching. Sure he is a coach that is well liked, and his scheme against NE and NO were good, but this defense has let bad offenses look good, and that to me is on Ryan, not Mangini.
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Have to disagree with you for the most part. Look what he has to work with. He has done an amazing job with the players we have on defense. this probably wouldn't even be brought up if the offense could perform in the 2nd half.
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I'm sure, just like Mangini & Daboll, a fair bit of blame falls on Ryan's coaching, but overall I still contend that our single biggest problem is talent - on both sides of the ball.
The tackling thing is definitely a concern... it annoys me greatly to see opponents break off a big play because we chose to go for the ball instead of the tackle, and I feel that that falls squarely on coaching... but I'm still firmly of the mind that if we had just a couple actual PlayMakers on each side of the ball to go with our slew of role players, that things would look a whole lot different.
In general, we have enough talent to do decently, and occasionally catch teams off guard, but I don't think we have an ability to consistently beat teams because not all of our players are good enough to consistently win their battles.
I also think a good part of it is players not always knowing their role, or freelancing outside their role. I swear that on half of the bigger runs against us, it has been a result of just one or two guys (usually just one) not being where they should be. I vaguely recall one run, I think against the Jets, where I believe we were in Dime, and I think it was Ventrone was lined up in/near a LBer spot on the defenses Right. The play started and he sat home for a bit, then looped in toward the middle... and just then the run came right through to the spot he had just vacated.... had he just maintained his own gap, that would have been a much smaller gain than it ended up being. It is things like that which have been killing us.
Injuries have really hit us, too. No Robaire, no Fujita on defense. Say what you want, but that is a major hit to our Run Defense.
On offense, we've been without Cribbs for two weeks and have had a revolving door on the right side of the OLine... that has definitely hurt. If it wasn't for Jake finding the WR's like he did, our O would have been as stagnant as it was against the Jags.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I disagree, the offense had the lead, and the defense let teams back in it.
The "what he has to work with" excuse doesn't cut it for me. He shut down Brady and Brees with the same players.
When you are winning, in the fourth quarter, the defense has got to hold the lead. Some say that three and outs make the defense tired, but at what point is the defense going to be held accountable for giving up 20+ yard runs and letting rookie QBs with no timeouts take their team the length of the field for a winning feild goal try?
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I'll agree that losing key players hurts, but these same things happened early in the year when they were healthy too.
I don't want to sound like I'm saying it is all Ryan's fault. Lack of talent has to be considered. But my point is his scheme's and an overall breakdown in the fourth quarter. If it wasn't a recurring thing, I wouldn't even see it as a problem. IMO he has problems adjusting just as Daboll has, just not to the same degree.
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Quote:
I know that Ryan gets a ton of love around here, but I honestly question why. These past few weeks show me that while his scheme's look good at times, he still does not have a complete scheme.
I can't agree with you and my reason is simple,, he has lost his playmakers and he still has a strong D.
Fujita
DQ
Rogers has been limited
Robaire Smith
Wright
Brown for a game
You take 3 or 4 or 5 starters off of any squad that you feel is solid and I bet you the difference will make you question how good the DC is,
And you'd be wrong to do so IMO
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He shut down Brady and Brees with the same players.
For the most part, but not entirely.
Also, if it were just that simple, Brady and Brees would throw for a billion TD's each week. The "mill around" defense that we saw against them hasn't been seen since the New England game, but I also recall Ryan saying that you can't really use it as much when a team isn't as one-dimensional as we had the Patriots and Saints. That's a benefit of getting up early on a passing team.
We got up early on the Jets, and they just marched right down the field on us and tied it up... we had to go toe-to-toe with them, and if their kicker didn't suck so bad, they'd have blown us off the field because they've simply got more playmakers.
Jax has a phenomenal running game and a great TE that we struggled heavily with. Neither New Orleans, nor New England have both aspects (or they didn't).
Carolina was some more of the same... lots of strong running and they got good production from their passing game. It was mostly their RB, but they got contributions from their WR's, too.
Basically, if we can make a team one-dimensional and play with a lead.... we're in great shape.
If we have to respect both the run and the pass and go blow-to-blow with a team, we're going to struggle.... and to me, that is simply a matter of talent.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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This defense is the same old story that has been here since Romeo and before. Poor tackling, and a lack of desire in the fourth quarter.
You honestly think this team lacks desire when it has a small lead in the 4th quarter? I would argue against that as strongly as I can.. it has nothing to do with desire, it has to do with talent...
I think his schemes work when he has the players that can win matchups, unfortunately we are thin in talent at some positions so we are limited in which schemes are going to work..
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I know that Ryan gets a ton of love around here, but I honestly question why.
I'll be totally honest.. a lot of it is his wild hair, his jumping and screaming on the sidelines and his penchant for saying some over the top things.... oh, and his pedigree. I think he does a pretty decent job as a defensive coordinator but if he dressed and acted like Mangini with the same exact results, people would be FAR LESS impressed with him.
yebat' Putin
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I'll be totally honest.. a lot of it is his wild hair, his jumping and screaming on the sidelines and his penchant for saying some over the top things.... oh, and his pedigree. I think he does a pretty decent job as a defensive coordinator but if he dressed and acted like Mangini with the same exact results, people would be FAR LESS impressed with him.
Quite sadly, I would have to call this 100% accurate and truthful.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think Ryan can overcoach at times, like it gets exotic when you rush two and drop the rest with the game on the line. I think more pressure at times, but with EW's performance scalding us and the gross tackling, they have not been good enough to get themselves off the field when we need it. Turnovers kill us, and injuries hurt us too. We are not good enough to have them out there endlessly. But I think Ryan has kept us in games well. But no offense, and asking the D to be out there for about two and a half quarters is horrid. I believe that what I taught and was taught is still true: Over half of tackling is the resire to cut the other guy in half, and to wrap is mandatory. The reach and dive crap, the monster hit, going for the strip, all of that pushes the basic good form tackling out the window. Just saying. I think he gets most of what's there out of them. But our allowing lousy offensive production in second halves is a huge issue. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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asking the D to be out there for about two and a half quarters is horrid.
The only game in which the D has been on the field an inordinate amount of time was the NYJ game.
Each and every other game the T.O.P. was within 2 minutes of being even, other than the KC game which had a 3:13 split of being even.
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Other than tackling our D isn't that bad. I think they wear out in the 4th because the O cant keep the ball for long. If you look at the games we won we had long sustained drives.
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Other than tackling our D isn't that bad. I think they wear out in the 4th because the O cant keep the ball for long. If you look at the games we won we had long sustained drives.
They wear out because they can't get themselves off the field.
As Shep pointed out, the TOP states your theory as incorrect.... and even if it weren't, it is still THEIR JOB to get themselves off the field, it just seems that their preferred method of getting off the field is to let the opponent score.
Cleveland Defense since the return: give up 15 on 3rd & 13. That is our modus operandi. Whiff on a tackle or two, have one guy out of position, inexplicably leave their #1 completely uncovered right at the sticks. If we can ever play defense for 3 (or 4) straight downs, the guys would get a lot more rest.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
I'll be totally honest.. a lot of it is his wild hair, his jumping and screaming on the sidelines and his penchant for saying some over the top things.... oh, and his pedigree. I think he does a pretty decent job as a defensive coordinator but if he dressed and acted like Mangini with the same exact results, people would be FAR LESS impressed with him.
Quite sadly, I would have to call this 100% accurate and truthful.
True,, and it is sad. Remember that guy we had here as DC before the switch to Mangini.. what was his name.. anyway, he was a kinda wild child. Always bouncing around, wearing loud jumpsuits.... Damn, what was his name. I keep thinking Davidson?
Anyway, I remember folks on here saying he should be the HC cause he's so firey... As if being firey was the key to success...
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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If you are straight-laced looking, and don't get hyper exicted then you are *obviously* a crappy coach that is a heartbeat away from losing your players.
You have to look gruff and have an emotionally charged personality or you just don't know what you're doing.... it doesn't matter that your results are no better than the other guys.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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In fairness to Ryan's statement if you look at the bigger picture [the in tier game] he would appear to be out on a limb here, but many times this season the offense has came out flat in the second half. Your offense is still your best defense  Your defense has just been scored on a long drive and your offense comes out and lays an egg or turns the ball over. Our defense has had to endure this scenario far to often. Rob could have taken the high road and complained about the injuries with the loss of Smith and Fujita (both Captains/leaders). Brown was banged up and I thought really showed some toughness playing hurt last Sunday. I could tell his shoulder was still hurting with every tackle he made. Eric Wright has been out and although it may seem to be a blessing in disguise, because we have Haden where he needs to be, but we also had to play STers in his stead. We have two starting DE's who can't practice with the team it seems all season. That's a recipe for disaster. What we need is to have a killer instinct on offense and not try to rely on our defense to win games, because we are simply not strong enough on defense right now.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 12/04/10 02:14 PM.
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True,, and it is sad. Remember that guy we had here as DC before the switch to Mangini.. what was his name.. anyway, he was a kinda wild child. Always bouncing around, wearing loud jumpsuits.... Damn, what was his name. I keep thinking Davidson?
Anyway, I remember folks on here saying he should be the HC cause he's so firey... As if being firey was the key to success...
Todd Grantham.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Todd Grantham.
DC for Georgia these days
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Quote:
Todd Grantham.
DC for Georgia these days
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Let's stop at Step 1 of your scenario, please: Quote:
Your defense has just been scored on a long drive
And this is the offense's fault, how?
The defense is responsible for getting itself off the field, period.
If they don't screw the pooch and give up a long drive, then guess what? After the offense goes 3-n-out, they're still fresh.
They're not tired because of the offense, they're tired because they can't help themselves.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
True,, and it is sad. Remember that guy we had here as DC before the switch to Mangini.. what was his name.. anyway, he was a kinda wild child. Always bouncing around, wearing loud jumpsuits.... Damn, what was his name. I keep thinking Davidson?
Anyway, I remember folks on here saying he should be the HC cause he's so firey... As if being firey was the key to success...
Todd Grantham.
Fear the pumkin'!  
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To be fair...if the offense managed (3) first downs against Jax (after the million Jax turnovers) the defense would not even be in that situation.
In the CAR game...if the offense got ONE first down after the Haden pick...the defense would not even be in that situation.
I agree with your point though.
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Quote:
True,, and it is sad. Remember that guy we had here as DC before the switch to Mangini.. what was his name.. anyway, he was a kinda wild child. Always bouncing around, wearing loud jumpsuits.... Damn, what was his name. I keep thinking Davidson?
Anyway, I remember folks on here saying he should be the HC cause he's so firey... As if being firey was the key to success...
Todd Grantham.
Ahhh yeah, that's him..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Cleveland Defense since the return: give up 15 on 3rd & 13. That is our modus operandi. Whiff on a tackle or two, have one guy out of position, inexplicably leave their #1 completely uncovered right at the sticks. If we can ever play defense for 3 (or 4) straight downs, the guys would get a lot more rest.
This.^^^
I'm getting tired of the "offense leaves them on the field too long" . In years past I could go for that. But this year, with the exception of the third quarter in most games, the offense has moved the ball and put points on the board. I can't see how having a 21-3 lead at the half, and only winning by one is the offenses fault. The defense has been the one losing the games for us.
IMO there is more talent on the defensive side of the ball, and yet, the offense IS who is keeping us in the game. Okay, the pick sixes have hurt, and that is the offense, but they have recovered from them most of the time only to be beaten at the last minute by BAD DEFENSE.
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Theres been enough ineptitude on both sides of the ball. The offense turns it over to much, and the D never gets the critical stops to ice games.
Both sides of the ball need to be better since neither is going to be dominant on its own merit anytime soon.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Defense is 22nd overall in the league.... improvement but we're still far from world beaters.
We're getting better but still far from a defensive powerhouse. I like Ryan but I'm not about to annoint him the second coming of Lombardi.
Mangini, fine
Ryan, good.
Daboll, horrible.
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Point taken, Shep. I was trying to exaggerate a bit. Winning teams would pile up more TOP than we do. So my stats for TOP are wrong. For a consistent winning team, our O will need to produce points after possessing awhile. Not every time admittedly, but especially more often in the second half. I admit being wrong if your numbers confirm it; but it seems like we are prolonging the agony for what seems an eternity with the way a few of them play and fail to tackle. Ryan can't tackle for them. 
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Well, delhomme did throw 2 horrible picks one for a TD to help erase that lead, but I understand your point.
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Ryan has been getting love from browns fans because we have made progress. Neither the offense or defense is good enough to win games for us and both have lost games for us. Looking at our schedule to this point:
TB - bad interception right before the half and the D gave up 1 TD in the 2nd half. I still blame Delhomme for the loss
KC - had the lead at the half and the offense went stagnant in the 2nd half. defense gave up 2 FGs. blame the offense for the loss.
BAL - eric wright torched, offense played ok. Defense to blame.
CIN - defense nearly gave up the lead but a win was pulled out. Give credit to the offense.
ATL - offense managed only 10 points and defense struggled to stop the run. Both O and D to blame.
PIT - offense stuggled all game and defense eroded in 2nd half. Both to blame.
NO - offense struggled but special teams and defense won this game but credit still leans toward the defense.
NE - complete domination. Both deserve credit
NYJ - offense and defense played ok. No offense in 3rd qtr but defense gave up the OT TD. Neither to blame
JAX - offense didn't do enugh but defense gave up that huge gain to Jones-Drew. Equal blame.
CAR - defense played well with the exception of the first and last drive. Offense played great in the first half and the Delhomme forgot he didn't play for Carolina anymore for a bit but did enough to win. The FG attempt should have never occured but thankfully was missed. O and D
put us in position to lose but we didn't. Neither deserve credit.
4 - 7
OFF - lost 2, won 1
DEF - lost 1, won 1
O and D - lost 4, won 2
My point being that I fell like the D has performed slightly better and has been more consisitent. That being said it has a LONG way to go just like the offense. Overall both units have struggled as a whole and is the reason our record is 4 - 7. Neither unit can make a case for winning games for us because neither has really done it. 1 game a piece by my analysis. Some of you may not agree with my breakdown but its JMHO.
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