|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Practice Squad
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157 |
So I was watching some Browns clips from the 80s and one thing that suck out to me was how well Kosar moved around. While he did look like he had clown shoes on while running around it looks like he was very good at buying time and getting out of pressure. Very Tony Romo-like in that while not a scrambler he can get out of the pocket.
Just something I noticed since all I've ever heard is how slow and clumsy he was. By the way, I was born in 1991 and all of my Browns memories are after the move. Which may explain why this is news to me.
Go Orange Helmeted Sportsmen of America!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194 |
It's an oddity. Some players are turely mobile. That was not Kosar.
What he could do was buy time however in most cases. He was more of a brainiac QB. Very smart, could read defenses well and seemed to know, and be pretty good at avoiding a lot of hits it didn't seem he had the physical gifts to avoid.
According to many on this very board, if they saw game footage of him in college, they'd swear up and down he would never be worth a damn in the NFL. He goes against common logic in that way. His throwing motion was awkward, his footwork was awkward, ( if you can even describe it as footwork ) lol, but he made it work.
He is a very smart man who understands the game very well. Which was a very big part of his game when he played.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
he was one of the best qb's at knowing exactly what was going to happen. not the fastest or most agile, obviously, but when you know where the pressure is coming from you get that head start.
and you can still see today when he does preseason, he can still sniff out certain plays before they happen. it's pretty amazing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
The only people who call him big, dumb and clumsy are Steeler fans whose ass he kicked more often than not.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,374
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,374 |
Kosar was amazing like that, I remember seeing him scramble out of the pocket and it was not a pretty sight at first, then next thing you know, he pulls off a miracle.
LET'S GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/OldSixty-Two/new0400001.jpg) [b]WOOF WOOF[b]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959 |
Quote:
So I was watching some Browns clips from the 80s and one thing that suck out to me was how well Kosar moved around. While he did look like he had clown shoes on while running around it looks like he was very good at buying time and getting out of pressure. Very Tony Romo-like in that while not a scrambler he can get out of the pocket.
Just something I noticed since all I've ever heard is how slow and clumsy he was. By the way, I was born in 1991 and all of my Browns memories are after the move. Which may explain why this is news to me.
LOL,, Kosar was scary to watch at times.. other times he was down right amazing.
he'd see something, audible out to another play and bingo,, before you knew it,, a completion. Freaky really.
I thought he looked a little like "big bird" in a Browns Uni  All clumsy and gawky.., but damn, he mostly seemed to know what was about to happen and was able to compensate for it in some fashion.
Outside of his height (I think he was 6'5" or 6'6") and his mind, nothing else about him screamed NFL QB.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Two things stand out in my memory, One is that he could escape from the pocket and start to run down field then pull up and throw a completion with this foot planted two inches from the line of scrimmage. He had an uncanny ability to know exactly where it was.
The other is the many, many times he'd be inside the 10 yard line threatening to score and call a timeout, go to the sidelines, come back and we'd score on the next play.
Well hell, another is the way he'd request a measurement, which you're allowed to do in certain situations yet I don't ever see anyone do anymore, which essentially gave him a short time-out to prepare for the next play.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276 |
I cant help but wonder if he'd a won won of the AFC championship's if he'd be mentioned with some of the great's?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959 |
Quote:
I cant help but wonder if he'd a won won of the AFC championship's if he'd be mentioned with some of the great's?
Probably,, I'd like to think so., he's fairly well regarded, but a superbowl with the Browns should have made him a bit more remembered outside of NE Ohio...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316 |
Quote:
I cant help but wonder if he'd a won won of the AFC championship's if he'd be mentioned with some of the great's?
Greats of the NFL...doubtful....I mean there are QB's with twice his accomplishments that you never hear about talked as "A Great"....throw in that he really only did it for 5-6 years and it's hard to be considered elite even if we are all homers
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,085
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,085 |
Played better than he had a right to physically. Unorthodox at times, as well. Watching him play two things stood out to me growing up: A) Focused —incredible concentration and awareness all around him, especially in dodging pressure in pocket; B) Instincts — He knew when to look and where, right thing at the right time. A sign of the great ones is defenses were manipulated and forced to adjust to him. so he could anticipate and cash in the next "wrinkle." Having a ground threat made him better too.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959 |
Quote:
Quote:
I cant help but wonder if he'd a won won of the AFC championship's if he'd be mentioned with some of the great's?
Greats of the NFL...doubtful....I mean there are QB's with twice his accomplishments that you never hear about talked as "A Great"....throw in that he really only did it for 5-6 years and it's hard to be considered elite even if we are all homers
Twice his accomplishments and you never hear about them? Who?
NFL career statistics
Regular season
3,365 passes attempted
1,994 passes completed
23,301 passing yards
124 passing touchdowns
87 passes intercepted
81.8 quarterback rating
Post-season
269 passes attempted
152 passes completed
1,918 passing yards
17 passing touchdowns
11 passes intercepted
85.9 quarterback rating
twice those numbers would be in the range of Elway, Marino, Montana etc.., those guys are talked about a bunch
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
i can't put him among the all time greats, but i think he should be added to the ring of honor.
and just hearing all his teammates from when he played, they all mention his leadership.
the cool thing is we are hearing some of the same things about colt mccoy, about how he told his guys they were going to score that tying td against the jets. not try, not maybe, that they were going to.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316 |
OK, may not twice, but check out a few of these....
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Jim Kelly
Bob Griese
Phil Simms
Drew Bledsoe
Jim Everett
Boomer Esiason
Warren Moon
I mean would you put Jim Everett in the all time greats? Ken O'Brien had about the same stats...how about him? Ron Jaworski...same thing?
I like Kosar and had he some good-to-great years with us but he belongs in the Browns greats, but that's about it.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959 |
Quote:
OK, may not twice, but check out a few of these....
Kurt Warner Warner gets plenty of press
Donovan McNabb Still playing, let's see what happens 15 years after he retires
Jim Kelly Kelly is highly respected
Bob Griese I can't explain this one
Phil Simms he gets plenty of pub
Drew Bledsoe can't explan this one
Jim Everett Can't explain this one
Boomer Esiason he gets a ton of respect
Warren Moon Isn't he in the HOF.. he should be
I mean would you put Jim Everett in the all time greats? Ken O'Brien had about the same stats...how about him? Ron Jaworski...same thing?
I like Kosar and had he some good-to-great years with us but he belongs in the Browns greats, but that's about it.
Everett, No,, O'Brien,, No but I really likes Jaws.. But he gets plenty of respect.
So, i'm sticking with my original thought,, if Kosar gets the Browns to the Superbowl,, he's gonna get more respect and be more highly thought of.
He wins the Superbowl with the Browns and it just gets better.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,558
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,558 |
Quote:
I cant help but wonder if he'd a won won of the AFC championship's if he'd be mentioned with some of the great's?
Not likely
He didn't have the numbers. The only major passing stat that he is ranked in the top 50 in is QB rating, he ranks 39th. He's only ranks 71st in Passing Yds, 57th in completions, 65th in attempts, and 91st in passing TDs.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Yeah.
Kosar only passed for 17 or more TDs 4 times. He only passed for 10 TDs or more 6 times.
He only played 7 full seasons.
That's not a Hall of Fame QB. He was good ...... but fans tend to overestimate his greatness through the fondness of memory.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658 |
My memory is lack of interceptions. I think he had the longest streak of pass attempts without a pick, but I could be wrong.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Kosar's brains are what made him successful. Kind of like Peyton Manning, to an extent. Manning certainly isn't the most mobile of QBs, but he just runs the game the way he wants it to be run.
I worked with a guy who had to pick up Ozzie Newsome at the airport one time. They started talking about the Browns and the Kosar days, and Newsome said that, at practice, Kosar was usually the only one who spoke on offense. No coaches or other players. He was just that much in control.
Sometimes, the play would come in from the sideline, and Kosar would say "we're not running that, we're running this." Infante would get disgusted, and when Kosar would come to the sideline, he'd say "well, I'm just not going to do anything, Bernie, you just call all the plays!" and Kosar would say "good!"
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Quote:
Something I noticed about Kosar.
I thought this thread would be about how he says, "fantastic" so much.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
I think one of the things that hurt Kosar was his longevity or lack thereof. He was brittle, and he didn't have a very long career as the guy compared to some of the other greats. The good years he did have were not eye popping. But he's still my all-time favorite player.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
I thought this thread was gonna be about his unfortunate forward comb-over. He looks like Moe. And before anybody yells at me, I'm a baldy with a crewcut, so I can make fun of comb-overs. Its a rule.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Sometimes, the play would come in from the sideline, and Kosar would say "we're not running that, we're running this."
One of the things I remember him saying during an interview some years ago was refusing to run a pass play that would hang his receiver out to dry. He said some plays had routes that would put his receiver in danger of getting blasted if he caught the ball vs. particular defenses. Remember how DA would throw to a receiver who would immediately get smacked by a LB or DB? Kosar would not run plays when that were evident to happen.
He also remarked that when he played he'd get blitzed maybe 6 or 8 times a game whereas in today's game everyone is blitz happy and that it's pretty daunting to deal with. Of course, one reason I think he didn't get blitzed so often is that if you blitzed him he recognized it early and would burn you for it with a nice completion.
Dude knew defenses.
As un-HOF as his stats were, to quarterback the Browns into the AFC Championship game 3 times in 4 years is an impressive accomplishment. We never lost one because of him maybe other than his lack of scoring in the 3rd one in which he had a contraption of a rubber band-aided splint on an injured finger of his throwing hand for that game. That was not a close game though I always thought we'd have stood a much better chance had he not had that injured throwing hand.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,006
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,006 |
One thing I think Kosar had that no one has mentioned is peripheral vision.
That is one thing that made him so good. I swear he could see the entire field at once. I think his check downs were instantaneous.
Thats why opposing coaches said dont look at his eyes. Because he wasnt going to look where he was throwing until he started throwing the ball. It often looked like a lame duck but was right were it needed to be.
Joe Thomas #73
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Something I noticed about Kosar.
|
|
