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2nd String
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OP
2nd String
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On April 25th 2009 we traded pick 5 to the Jets for picks and players. I wanted to look back at the trade because so many people said the Jets made a great trade and we did alright. Well after all the additional trades we made with the picks gotten from the trade here is where it ended.
Original trade: Jets get pick 5(Mark Sanchez). Browns get Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff, Pick 17(traded to TB) and Pick 52(David Veikune)
Final Result
Jets gets Mark Sanchez.
Browns get Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff, Abram Elam,David Veikune,Coye Francis,Alex Mack and James Davis.
Kenyon Coleman-25 starts in 26 games played. 3.5 sacks
Brett Ratliff-no games played. 3rd QB for 2009. 2nd QB a few games this year.On Pats practice squad now?
Abram Elam-28 starts in 29 games played. 3 sacks. 2 INT. 3 FF
David Veikune-played in 10 games in 2009. Was a bust. Now on Broncos
Alex Mack-29 starts in 29 games played
James Davis-6 games played in. 26 rush yards. Now on Redskins.
Coye Francis-6 games played in. 4 tackles. Won a championship in the UFL in 2010 with the Vegas team. Had 2 INT that season.
So at the end of the day we got 3 starters and 4 back ups. In my opinion thats a great trade. Mack will be around for years. And the way Elam has been playing lately he may be as well. Coleman is older but has been a solid end for us. Also rumors of Sanchez almost getting benched helps affirm this.
Good trade Browns
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Dawg Talker
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As of today ... yea, we did OK. If Mark turns out to be the next Tom Brady and plays for 15 more years then we got HOSED. Way to early to tell.
I would trade EVERYONE we got back to them and the PICKs for a franchise type QB anyday. Look at the Falcons, The Lions, the Rams, etc. A very good QB makes up for a lot.
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Legend
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Legend
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I still think we got hosed on that trade... We let the jets move up to the FIVE spot, and shouldv'e gotten more...
o well.. not worth crying over spoiled milk...
Sanchez sucks.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Quote:
I still think we got hosed on that trade... We let the jets move up to the FIVE spot, and shouldv'e gotten more...
o well.. not worth crying over spoiled milk...
Sanchez sucks.
This ^^ was my problem too. I did not "want" Sanchez, but we didn't make 'em bleed hard enough for a five.
We got buttermilk,...I drink it daily. 
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Hall of Famer
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And Coye Francies is on our practice squad. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I still think we got hosed on that trade... We let the jets move up to the FIVE spot, and shouldv'e gotten more...
o well.. not worth crying over spoiled milk...
Sanchez sucks.
I doubt we could have gotten more. Teams are reluctant to trade up to those spots because of the huge salaries involved.
The draft value chart doesn't really work for the top 10 because of those contracts. Many teams would like to get out of the top 10 just to get out of paying such big bucks to rookies, so that reduces negotiating leverage (which was precisely our case).
I know Tabber thought I was insane when I originally brought that point up, but it's very true and he's not around anymore.
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Legend
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Legend
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but if you think you got ur guy that could be your QB for YEARS... money is not a problem..
we got hosed.
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Dawg Talker
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the browns were very generous in giving up the five spot. Maybe if Veikune would of made something of himself, it would have been a good trade. But that was a huge strikeout.
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Legend
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Legend
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To me you missed the point. It is not what we got; it is what we didn't get.
There is no way you make that trade without getting a first rounder in the following year.
There is no way you reach for a player like Veikune. Your second round player and you take a defensive end from a small school and try to convert him to an outside linebacker? Are you kidding me? Did you not learn anything from taking Vernon Gholston?
Really I don't want to even go there. When I look at players in the league (Ngata) on other teams that should be anchors on the Browns it make me ill.
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Legend
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Legend
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quite honestly, I wanted no part of Sanchez, so I liked the trade from that standpoint itself.
but, most teams that do give up spots that high can stockpile some future picks. we didn't. even if we got a future 2nd in addition, if the Jets thought Sanchez was their guy, we probably should have gotten it.
it's one of the reasons Mangini isn't in charge of such things (or Kokinis if he had any power at the time). let's just be happy our FO isn't the mess now that it was then and move on.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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And thus is the difference between a coach negotiating and a general manager negotiating.
Stuff happens... learn from it and move on.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
I still think we got hosed on that trade... We let the jets move up to the FIVE spot, and shouldv'e gotten more...
o well.. not worth crying over spoiled milk...
Sanchez sucks.
We got hosed in a lot of draft trades that year in terms of what we got back in return.. we were getting 5ths and 6ths where the Patriots kept on getting 3rds and 4ths back for worse moves...
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
And thus is the difference between a coach negotiating and a general manager negotiating.
Stuff happens... learn from it and move on.
I have to agree with you PPE.
We had a guy "running the whole show" who basicly had no experience at this end of the business. Plain and simple, he was in over his head.
Which is exactly the reason MH and TH are here now. Of course we didn't get maximum value and of course most of the picks we made in return weren't all that and a bag of chips, even though Abrams has kicked it up a notch as of late.
Enter MH and TH. I really don't know why that concept seems so difficult for some to understand.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I for one am not worried about any future picks or trades with MH and TH at the helm  The Sanchez trade was ok, unless he turns into a great QB which I dont see at this point. If he does, hind sight is always 20 20 .
Joe Thomas #73
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
I still think we got hosed on that trade... We let the jets move up to the FIVE spot, and shouldv'e gotten more...
o well.. not worth crying over spoiled milk...
Sanchez sucks.
I doubt we could have gotten more. Teams are reluctant to trade up to those spots because of the huge salaries involved.
The draft value chart doesn't really work for the top 10 because of those contracts. Many teams would like to get out of the top 10 just to get out of paying such big bucks to rookies, so that reduces negotiating leverage (which was precisely our case).
I know Tabber thought I was insane when I originally brought that point up, but it's very true and he's not around anymore.
I've made your point many times as well but always pointing out an important caveat, player availability. Specifically, drafting a quarterback at or near the top of the draft is often the only way to have a reasonably good chance at finding a legit franchise quarterback, and for teams without one, that consideration trumps the financial investment.
Now, I didn't like Sanchez in last year's draft and I like him even less now. But there is no way that we received fair compensation. You can't drop down 16 spots in the first round and give up what another team considers a franchise QB and only get a 2nd round pick and some role players. I'm not even factoring in what we eventually did with that second round pick either; that's a different issue.
Like somebody else said, it should have been a foregone conclusion that the Jets 2010 1st round pick be included in the trade. That's just how trades like this work in the NFL. If the Jets were unwilling then you say, thanks for the offer, but no thanks (and mean it). That's how you negotiate.
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Legend
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Legend
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JC..
Personally, I'm not overly impressed my Sanchez. He has games where he looks like a superstar, then he turns around and looks like a 3rd string QB. He is terribly inconsistent. And I think his play is conducive on the play of those AROUND him, rather than a true franchise QB who's play elevates those around HIM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Legend
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J/C
One facet not being discussed is the team building process and how that trade helped.
Both Coleman and Elam played for Mangini with the Jets.
Mangini isn't dumb enough to not know he had some negative press and reputation.
By bringing the former players he did, he helped establish the team concept we see today.
He knew he had to have a few of "his" guys in the clubhouse talking to the existing players that everything they read wasn't the way it was.
Not snitches like Davis had with that crappy receiver he kept around along with James Jackson....these are good solid pro players who work hard every day. Leaders by example, not by mouth.
If Mangini bites the dust, sure, it wasn't a horrible trade as sanchez isn't that good....and that is who we would have taken....and have some good players as well.
If Mangini continues to build and work with Heck and Homie, though it won't be viewed this way by most, but it might become one of the best trades we ever made.
Just a view from deeper than the headline.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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All Pro
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All Pro
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J/C I still think should have gotten Clay Matthews...son of a (future) hall of famer, nephew of a hall of famer, on a national Champ. team...oh thats right-we didnt need linebackers...
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2nd String
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OP
2nd String
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Quote:
J/C
One facet not being discussed is the team building process and how that trade helped.
Both Coleman and Elam played for Mangini with the Jets.
Mangini isn't dumb enough to not know he had some negative press and reputation.
By bringing the former players he did, he helped establish the team concept we see today.
.
I think that is very valuable. That was one of the things on my thoughts about the guys we traded for.
Mack we have a likely future pro boweler. Elam and Coleman have been good guys to help set a tone on defensive for the "Mangini way"
Maybe we could have squezzed more picks out of teams but i think we did pretty solid job. And we should have made a better pick that turned out to be Veikune.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I know Tabber thought I was insane when I originally brought that point up, but it's very true and he's not around anymore.
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
#gmstrong
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26, Thanks for the post.. I think it's been a good one and thought provoking. You've had a few agree and a few disagree.. that IMO is what a good post should be.. something we can all chat chat about.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mark Sanchez Trade
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