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I think "if" we decide to look at a new HC Minus Holmgren not wanting to do it....why not Brian Billick?
I'd Take Billick over Gruden
Billick Complied a 80-64 record in Baltimore .556 win percentage and a Super Bowl ring. Billick actually "gets it" and understands exactly what it takes to win football games in the AFC North
outside of Mike Holmgren himself...if this team wants a coach that knows how to win in this division and will build a physical team...you would want Billick....
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If I was Holmgren for a day. hmm
My first choice would be Rob Ryan. He has very little talent to work with and this D has really overachieved. I think he is a natural leader and he is going to be an excellent head coach for someone. It is unlikely to happen.
I wouldn't mind Gruden at all. I think he is a quality coach and I would imagine he is near the top of Holmgren's list.
Thing with Holmgren is that he loves being the owner. This is his puppy and he gets to build it however he wants. it will be interesting to see who gets hired for what. I imagine over the last year there has been a rolling plan developing in his head.
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Quote:
When there is a coach who is in a dignified position, he is "Coach." Much like a priest is "Father" or a doctor is "Doctor." It's a sign of respect that I've been taught since I started playing football in middle school.
Even coaches who aren't your coach, are known as "Coach."
I'm just showing Coach the respect he deserves, especially given the insulting slang term that many bestow upon him.
'What you say is true if you are talking to the coach. But not so much when you are talking about the coach.
I coached some 9-10 year old kids in football. Every once in a while I'll see one of them. they are 20-22 years old now and they still call me coach. That's how they know me. It feels good to hear it.
As well, I know several coaches. A retired Division III college coach and a couple high school coaches. I've never played for any of them and when addressing them in person I call them coach, as a sign of respect. But if I'm talking to someone else about the coach I call the coach by his name.
I'd feel odd as hell doing otherwise. It would make me feel as if I were trying to be a part of something I'm not.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I'd feel odd as hell doing otherwise. It would make me feel as if I were trying to be a part of something I'm not.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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How U guys like yer boy Gini now??
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Quote:
J/C
For those mentioning that Mangini took away the defensive play calling, Mangini had this to say:
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For the record
Mangini disputed reports that he took control of the defensive play calling Sunday. He said defensive coordinator Rob Ryan called the plays, as he usually does.
''I wouldn't do that to Rob,'' Mangini said. ''I have a ton of faith in Rob.''
Mangini was photographed signaling to the defensive players from the sideline. However, he said he was only sending signals to alert the defense about what plays he thought the Bengals' offense was going to run.
link: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/coach-says-hes-confident-in-teams-direction--446544.html
whats interesting about this is that right as the Cincinnati team was going for the 3-1 play, they panned to the browns sideline and i saw mangini mouth "bullsh*t Rob" into the headset and then smile. if anyone has a DVR of it, its kinda funny and shows their relationship
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Quote:
How U guys like yer boy Gini now??
What do you mean?
yebat' Putin
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Well some want him back ,some don't..just wondering especially since it looks like the Browns are going the opposite of last year..they woin their last 5 ,this year they're probably going to lose the last 5.
Not good.
I already expressed my thoughts on him way earlier.
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The biggest problem is that all of the positives we hear about are not resulting in victories, most especially in games that were considered to have been against lesser opponents, not to mention they would have kept the Browns in the hunt. That really baffles me, the lack of intensity at crunch time. Maybe it's just bad luck,...or, does Mangini NOT have the locker room ears and minds of the players, as we are led to believe, and haven't heard a bad word to the contrary from anyone about yet,....
I will remain, ever patient.
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Quote:
Well some want him back ,some don't..just wondering especially since it looks like the Browns are going the opposite of last year..they woin their last 5 ,this year they're probably going to lose the last 5.
Not good.
I already expressed my thoughts on him way earlier.
Actually, they won their last 4 last year.
It is impossible for them to lose their last 5, as they won their 5th from last game. (against Miami) They then lost to Buffalo and Cincinnati ... and have Baltimore and Pittsburgh left.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Probably thinking we're tanking this year (not purposely) to finish with 5 wins, when last year we came home strong just to get to 5.
Bottom line,....not much mathematical difference.
Still, there HAS been improvement against a murderous schedule (as it turned out), bad injury bugs, lower talent level, poor decision making/play calling, and just plain suckwad luck.
Anxious to see how these last two play out.
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Quote:
Anxious to see how these last two play out.
well, they started the season off losing close games to frustrate us.
they started beating up teams who noone thought we could beat.
then they looked terrible in either beating or losing to the worst teams on our schedule.
since, Pitt and Balt should beat us, I think we sweep them. It seems like we do the inverse of expectations this year 
#gmstrong
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Only way that happens is because they're both at home,...
But, I hope you're right -- I want to watch something cool on my new TV this weekend,....
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Quote:
Only way that happens is because they're both at home,...
But, I hope you're right -- I want to watch something cool on my new TV this weekend,....
well, you might want to rent 'The Pacific' then 
#gmstrong
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Is it out on Blu-ray yet ?
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Quote:
Is it out on Blu-ray yet ?
Yes, and on sale for $40 at amazon.com. $50 if you do a 2-day shipping to get it there for this weekend 
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...sl_5a1a32igp0_b
What's funny is that the DVD version is on sale for $45. So, the Blu-Ray version is actually cheaper 
#gmstrong
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One of my neighborhood softball dudes'll have it,...these kids have everything.
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Quote:
Well some want him back ,some don't..just wondering especially since it looks like the Browns are going the opposite of last year..they woin their last 5 ,this year they're probably going to lose the last 5.
Not good.
I already expressed my thoughts on him way earlier.
Oh, well my opinion of him hasn't changed much.. I think he has the potential to be a good coach, I don't like Daboll at all, I like Ryan a little more... I won't be upset if Mangini goes because I trust H&H to find a quality replacement (this was something I did not use to think, I used to just assume we would replace one failed experiment with another, I don't feel like that anymore).. if he stays, I will assume it is because H&H believe he can win with more talent... I'm far more willing to put my trust in H&H to make the right decision and will go with whatever they decide...
yebat' Putin
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Although I'm a "continuity guy," and have seen a lot of things from a Mangini-led team that I've wanted from the Browns, I realize a couple things:
1. I didn't dedicate my professional life to football, so I don't know enough to even hope to understand why choices are made as they are
2. The team is being led by people who HAVE dedicated their lives to it... so they have to know more than I do. That said, I MUST offer up this thought:
My gut (and history) tells me that a total upheaval of the coaching staff will lead to more years of teardown/rebuild. My head tells me to trust the new honchos, because they know more than I do.
For the most part, I feel as you do, DC... but I can't help thinking that the entire coaching staff has been learning as they go, while trying to think on their feet as the season(s) progress. That can't be easy. I'm sure they envy Tomlin's situation in Pittsburgh, where he inherited a team with a solid FO, depth of personnel, and an entrenched culture and team persona. Building something from nothing can't be easy.
For my own part, I still believe that it's too easy to do a 'total system dump' where coaching is concerned. Fans and pundits are ready to write off teams that go more than 2-3 years without making the playoffs... when common sense should tell everyone that teams like the Patriots, Steelers and Colts have been built on long-term planning models. It's the very reason they are in the playoff hunt year after year after year.
In our own case, we saw a 2002 team that was relevant in Dec/Jan... only to lose a heartbreaking game against Pittsburgh because Dennis Northcutt couldn't haul in a routine sideline pass. We also saw 2007 team that was relevant in December... only to lose in a Cinci game that would have won them a playoff spot for a "one and done" appearance. At best, we would have won the WC game, and been crushed the following week. Even by some bizarre twist of fate the 2007 Browns could have made an improbable run to win the SB, the team would have been dismantled afterward (due to cap restrictions), and we'd have been cast back into the ranks of the middlemen the following year.
We've NEVER done the hard work of building a long-lasting powerhouse- not since Art Modell took ownership of the team. It's always been a quick-fix, 'what can you do for me now?" approach... and it's yielded us the same results, decade after decade after decade... after decade. The closest we came was a 2-3 year window in the late 80's... and we had to blow up the team then, too.
I don't know what it's going to take for this "microwave mentality" to be dumped from the Browns' collective psyche... but I'm at the age when I see the benefits of planning a good course, picking some people, and showing the patience (and perseverance) to see a thing through.
I'll put it another way: In order to regularly make the playoffs, our team must be able to hang with (and regularly defeat) Pittsburgh and Baltimore... teams that have already perfected the very team-building aspects that we've lacked for a decade or more. Coincidence? I think not.
Pitt&Balto: in the hunt EVERY December. Cleve: out of the race (or playing late-season spoiler) every December. Or earlier.
It's time to hitch up a team of horses and ride them for the long haul. Coaches learn just like players do. Crawlers learn to walk before they learn to run. Runners learn to sprint before they learn how to win a marathon. These are universal truths.
Why is our team the one that must be given the lesson twelve times, before they begin to see the light:
After Paul Brown (16 years) and Blanton Collier (7 years) the Browns have had:
Nick Skoritch (4 years)
Forrest Gregg (2 years)
Dick Modzelewski (1 game)
Sam Rutigliano (7 years)
Barty Schottenheimer (4 years)
Bud carson (1.5 years)
Jim Shoffner ( .5 years)
Bill Belichick (4 years)
Chris Palmer (2 years)
Butch Davis (3.75 years)
Terry Robiskie (.25 years)
Romeo Crennel (4 years)
Does anyone other than me see the corellation between 'plug-pulling' and cellar-dwelling? Does anyone other than me see that a dynasty is built over decades... not seasons? Does anyone other than me see the futility of making the same mistakes over and over, while expecting different results?
Bottom line: The Browns have been caught in a perpetual mobius loop of philosophy: two twists, and we're right back to where we started. It's insanity at its most profound.
For all of us who are hoping that Holmgren, Heckert and Haskill (from this point on coined: H3 by me- you heard it here first) can fix this 40+ -year problem, I PRAY that they look at our history... and allow it to figure into their thought process and plans.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Sorry Clem. You're a righteous dude. Love what you bring to the board, and you're most likely a much wiser man than I am. But I'm going to take you to school.  The reason those teams you mention have so much success isn't their long term business model. It's because they solved the biggest riddle in pro football...the QB. I'm sorry but that's all it is. Solve the QB position and the wins will come. Now that doesn't mean every coach is going to capitalize on having the guy. And that brings me to my second point. Show me any industry ...regardless of how much people make and you'll find competent people and incompetent people...and that includes people that make millions of dollars. I wouldn't put blind faith into people just because a) they do it and you don't and b) they've done it for a long time.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I don't think sticking with the status Quo is necessarilly going to lead to a more stable foundation that will bring better results.
I'll point out an example, The Detroit lions, I don't know if it was 2007, or 08, or 09, but they had a good record ( for them) they had 4 wins in the first 7 or 8 games, I think Jon Kitna was their quarterback and they stuck with it, they stuck with the plan and 2 years later they are working on setting records for losses and road losses.
It would appear to me, from reading this board, that some would have prefered that they stick with Brady Quinn all through this season, watch as he would not have improved, and as this season ends Would Still Want To Give Him More Time.
Because you can't tell if a qb is going to be any good by 3 regular seasons and 4 pre-seasons. I think I Can
And I think I can tell, that a head coach that is 10 games under 50% for Career, is not going to lead you to the playoffs next year, and at no point make the playoffs 2 years in a row.
So if you don't have a reasonable hope of making the playoffs, at least making the playoffs 2 years in a row, then.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Even with Ryan I am cautious,I didn't like the blitzes he was running leaving his DB's exposed and even exposing the bad pass rushers.
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RISHUZ... Quote:
The reason those teams you mention have so much success isn't their long term business model. It's because they solved the biggest riddle in pro football...the QB. I'm sorry but that's all it is. Solve the QB position and the wins will come.
well, i'd say it's more a combination of stability/culture and QB, but YES. you hit it. which is why this firing talk is nonsensical to me. fix the QB...a requisite for team success. THEN reassess the HC, particularly as he has shown some potential and made some positive changes to the stability/culture. if the pros/cons are still generally balanced, make a change.
i'm hoping that a full offseason lock-out helps Holmgren give the dude 1 more year.
Browns fans are born with it...
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THROW LONG... Quote:
It would appear to me, from reading this board, that some would have prefered that they stick with Brady Quinn all through this season, watch as he would not have improved, and as this season ends Would Still Want To Give Him More Time.
yes there would be some supporting him...but would they be the majority? most folks had not seen enough potential, and were done with him. is that the case with Mangini now? do you think most of the diehards around here are not seeing any potential and are done with him? normally, the majority opinion means little with respect to truth, but people know football and know their team around here, and are collectively more often right than wrong, i would say.
Quote:
And I think I can tell, that a head coach that is 10 games under 50% for Career, is not going to lead you to the playoffs next year, and at no point make the playoffs 2 years in a row.
Mangini is 10 under .500 with us, but was 2 games under .500 after 3 years with Jets. of the guys commonly discussed as replacements: John Fox was 8 over .500 in 5 years, John Gruden was 12 over in 4 yrs with Oakland, then 2 under after 5 yrs with Tampa, Marty Mornhinwheg was 22 games under after 2 yrs.
i'd be happy with Fox, but he'd want to run the 4-3, no? setback. Gruden's teams yo-yo all over the place. Morninwheg makes me nautious.
i just don't like changing the HC for the sake of change. that said, if Holmgren pulls a rabbit out of the hat i'm not gonna cry for poor Mangini. if he drops Mangini and gets similar results for the next 2-3 yrs, well...i won't take any joy in that.
back to the QB comparison...when we dropped Quinn & DA, we had 2 guys immediately better, say what you want about Delhomme. is that the case with our HC position right now?
Browns fans are born with it...
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1a. QB.
1b. Coach.
I still have reservations about Mangini, but he would look much better and would pile up more wins with a stable, franchise-type QB.
I still don't know that I want to keep him around.
This is like the first year in 10 years or something like that where the Colts have not had double digit wins. It is an astounding stat. They have the wins because of Manning,but I feel like they've really underachieved by having only one Super Bowl to show for it. I know Tony Dungy is considered a great coach, but 1 Super Bowl...that's it.
So when I always say solve the QB position and the wins will come....I'm not saying a guaranteed Super Bowl or anything like that. I'm simply saying you have no chance without the QB ...and almost no chance for the whole thing if you can't pair that QB with the right coach.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I know this will seem strange,, But two things stuck out to me from your comments: Quote:
1. I didn't dedicate my professional life to football, so I don't know enough to even hope to understand why choices are made as they are
Most of us are like that.. there are a very few that think they are absolutly correct about all things football. Maybe because they played the game in HS or maybe even College.. Or maybe arrogance. Dunno. But a man must know his limitations. I spend entirely too much time questioning things like that,
Quote:
I don't know what it's going to take for this "microwave mentality" to be dumped from the Browns' collective psyche...
I know what you mean by that kinda mentality. Everything must happen now,. Kinda like "they put on the uni, now win... TODAY"
Talking about what went wrong in the past doesn't solve anything. Learning from the past does.
In the recent past and maybe going all the way back since Modell first entered the scene, this team has mostly been about Flash. not so much in the 60's but back then we still had the great influence from Paul Brown lingering in the background.
But once Modell thought he knew more than he really knew, that's when the wheels came off. And if it weren't for Ernie Accorsi in the 80's, I'm not sure we'd have had the success we had then.
The point is, the Lerners have finally gotten a strong "TOP GUY" in place. None of this Flash and Dash crap. Holmgren, warts and all, is the most savvy "FOOTBALL" guy we've had since Accorsi.
Fans talk about wanting a dynasty ala New England or Pittsburgh, but that kinda thing doesn't happen by accident. It's built over time.
For me, it's as if 1999 to 2008 were wasted. The lesson for the Lerners and any pro sports franchise is, get the "Right" guys at the top, they'll find the rest of your organization.
It's gonna take time.. and fans don't want to hear that. they are of the mind that "Hey, We've waited since 1999 and that's long enough" and there is much much truth to that. But it doesn't solve the problem.
If you look at what first Mangini tried to do in 09 and what was continued in 2010 with Heckert/Holmgren, what is very clear is that a foundation for long term success is being built. it's not done yet, but it's getting there.
Rish says that the downfall for this organization is that we've not found our QB.. and I can't find fault with that thinking. except to say, having a top shelf QB in and of itself doesn't guarantee success.
But that may not be accurate any longer. We may have him in Colt McCoy. Put some receivers around him, fix the right side of the line and a back up RB (maybe hardesty  ) and that might just be the answer.
We need more foundation pieces on the D as well, but I now have reason to believe that we have those leaders in place that can find those players.
Is Mangini the long term answer? hell if I know. But I trust Holmgren to make the right choice.
Is the answer to retain Mangini and bring in a new OC? Maybe... Then again, some WR's, another RB and the right side of the line might be all Daboll needs. I really don't know. But I bet you that Holmgren does.
The mentality that dictates the turnaround must happen at the snap of the finger is what got us here.
From my perspective, the one key ingrediant missing the first 9 years was a credible leader at the top..
Holmgren filled that slot.. Now we need to let him work.
IMO, firing coaches every couple of years isn't the answer..
Holmgren may fire Mangini or Daboll or all of them or some of those guys.. Dunno. But I really wish he wouldn't.
I think this team has played tough all season., They made some boneheaded moves, some headscratchers and some amazing moves as well.
We can micro analyze things to death.. and I think that's what's happening at times. But that doesn't solve anything.. Getting the top guy in place and letting him to his job is the Right thing.
Still, there aren't any guarantees....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
1a. QB.
1b. Coach.
I still have reservations about Mangini, but he would look much better and would pile up more wins with a stable, franchise-type QB.
I still don't know that I want to keep him around.
This is like the first year in 10 years or something like that where the Colts have not had double digit wins. It is an astounding stat. They have the wins because of Manning,but I feel like they've really underachieved by having only one Super Bowl to show for it. I know Tony Dungy is considered a great coach, but 1 Super Bowl...that's it.
So when I always say solve the QB position and the wins will come....I'm not saying a guaranteed Super Bowl or anything like that. I'm simply saying you have no chance without the QB ...and almost no chance for the whole thing if you can't pair that QB with the right coach.
1a. Talent elsewhere, with plenty of valid depth
1b. QB
1c. Coach
I don't care how good your coach or QB is... without talent and depth elsewhere, you aren't going anywhere.
The Ravens and Bucs in the last decade alone have shown that you can get it done without the QB... but you MUST have the talent and depth elsewhere.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2010/12/post_26.htmlCleveland Browns are well-positioned if a coaching change is made: Bud Shaw's Sports Spin Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 11:38 PM By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer Change in Berea is not nearly as scary these days as consistency just for the sake of it. If any city's football fans should know what constitutes "starting over," it's this city's. Cutting ties with head coach Eric Mangini wouldn't be starting over, not with Mike Holmgren as president and Tom Heckert as general manager. And certainly not with Holmgren in front of the cameras in January, saying, "I'd like to introduce the Browns' next head coach, a guy I think the world of, a guy who shares my offensive philosophy on how to win in the NFL in 2011, a man I've known all my life . . . even my wife loves this guy . . . give it up for . . . me!" Holmgren should keep Mangini only if he believes the Mangini way is an expressway to the Super Bowl. I can't see how that's possible, but we'll see. I do know Holmgren has other options that didn't exist last year when he let things ride after that four-game winning streak to close the season. That winning streak, by the way, proved to be the launching pad to . . . oh, yeah . . . a 1-5 start. Holmgren, Heckert, the availability of Jon Gruden and John Fox and -- quite possibly -- Holmgren's own unscratched itch to coach again make this potential transition unlike any other in the past decade. Randy Lerner saw his father, Al, match a first-time head coach in Chris Palmer with an overmatched GM in Dwight Clark. Clark threw an arm over Palmer's shoulder at a news conference late in their second season and -- prophetically it turns out -- sang a few bars of "Side by Side." Prophetic because they were connected at the guillotine, even though Clark showed enough life for a while to serve as Butch Davis' floor mat. When Randy Lerner overthrew King Butch, he vowed to embrace the separate seats of power model with the GM having final say. Problem was, Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage didn't merely prove dysfunctional as a team. Lerner came to see Savage as a bad match for the general manager's job. The owner reversed himself by hiring Mangini, then delivering George Kokinis to an already compromised GM job. Two years later, the Browns have never been better positioned for what looks and feels like inevitable change. Heckert's first draft and Holmgren's timely intrusion on behalf of Colt McCoy in the third round, along with some good free-agent pickups, are insurance against a step back next season. The closest the Browns could come to starting over would be on defense if they scrap Rob Ryan's 3-4 to go with the 4-3. But changing head coaches? It doesn't invite the chaos of the past decade. Not even close. In fact, it gives Holmgren the opportunity to create an even more harmonious organization.
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That's a load of crap, Mr. Shaw.
Any time you change coaches, you change rosters. It will be yet another reboot.... they'll just spin it differently.
I'm getting sick of following a team that has no clue how to stay the course.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I still don;t see Holmgren returning to the sideline. I think thats just a pipe dream but I do believe he would like to build this thing from top to bottom and do it with his people. He has his scheme, his philosophies and his people and you can't help but to believe that the Holmgren way is about to become the Browns way.
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The players that are worth a damn are likely to be here no matter what. Hillis is a better fit for the WCO than he is for this offense. Colt is a better WCO fit. Vickers yep. Receivers Cribbs would fit with his run after catch ability. Momass might make a decent slot because he will go across the middle. OL is going to need upgraded on the right side no matter what system.
defensively Adams, Haden, Wright, Ward, Rubin, Roth and Benard (maybe Elam) are really the only guys that aren't pretty much worthless at this point or nearing the end of their career. Our front seven just doesn't have the talent to stress over any type of change be it 3-4 or 4-3.
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Just Clicking on you Mourg, I watched the movie Lombardi the other night on HBO and first if anyone on here has never seen it before, I challenge you to give it a look. GREAT documentary.. Not even drawing a comparison to any head coach in the league to Lombardi so let's not try and put words in my mouth.  The point though that I want to make is that when Lombardi got to Green Bay there were a total of 13 players that were All Pro/Hall of Fame players... 13!! And THAT was what he inherited! In NO way am I thinking Mangini could have that sort of success (damn I wish he could though) but I furthermore think that no other coach could either in the limited time with the limited talent as it relates to our team... He DOES make some boneheaded coaching decisions. He DOES have some growing to do however I have seen improvement from last year and I truly think that he will show improvement as well if given the progression that it takes to see this through... Clem I am with you on the fact that the lack of continuity will still occur if we got rid of him... Yes the overall talent that H3 (nice nick btw) is acquiring may stay in place but EM's fundementals will be transitioned to the tone of the new HC... Could it be turned around as quickly as fans are hoping?? All I can say is look at history as a measuring stick and it is pretty compelling as you have laid it out... And Rish... I was a BIG fan of the cRAC hire... Was so excited about the hire and didn't turn on that opinion until year three... As irony would have it that was the year we went 10-6 but I wasn't looking at the record... I know you got sensitive on me in the other thread and I took a few days away before responding but you seem to be taking me wrong... I have never coached football even though I have coached plenty of baseball, soccer and softball... Would never ever pretend to know the inter workings of that process but there is ONE thing that rings true through any team sport and that is the implementing of a team philosophy.. We have one here FINALLY... I see it and it isn't a measurable that shows up in stats, wins or any other tangible except you can see it in the heart, fundementals and attitude... These are things that translate into each measurable over time and it takes the right leader to implement and change a culture... I SEE this with EM and despite the things about him I disagree with, I see plenty more with this team that I DO agree with... Doesn't make me right nor does it make you wrong... Is there enough of his philosophy and culture there to propel us to the next level if given a year three?? I hope that he is given a year three to see... I would let you serve me up with whatever kind of crow you want to dish out if I am wrong but all I care about is seeing us field a winner and I know that ultimately is what you want as well..
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/12/cleveland_browns_defensive_coo_5.htmlCleveland Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan: "It would be dumb as hell'' to break up the Browns Published: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 5:31 PM Updated: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 5:47 PM CLEVELAND -- Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan made his pitch today for club President Mike Holmgren to keep Eric Mangini and the current staff. He said to break up the current team, which is obviously better and going in the right direction: "That would be dumb as hell.'' He said "Eric Mangini is a great coach and this team believes in him.'' He also said "good luck'' if they bring in a new defensive coordinator "because he ain't going to be better than me.'' He said one of the reasons the future looks so bright is because of rookie quarterback Colt McCoy. "This kid's phenomenal,'' he said. "He's going to be a superstar in this league.'' He also backed off some on a statement he made to the New York Times earlier this season that he'd be shocked if he wasn't a head coach 2011. "I'm not sure,'' he said. "You need some wins.'' But he said he'd love to be a head coach and he knows he's ready. As for his brother Rex's video controversy with wife Michelle: "It's personal. I don't think any of us have wings on.'' Ryan also said that his run defense vs. the Bengals was poor, in part, because the Bengals were holding all over the place. He said the Browns sent the league 14 plays on which they felt the Bengals should've been called for holding. He said the league agreed with about nine. "It wasn't officiated as tight as it could've been,'' he said.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
He said the Browns sent the league 14 plays on which they felt the Bengals should've been called for holding. He said the league agreed with about nine.
"It wasn't officiated as tight as it could've been,'' he said.
ARE U SERIOUS!!!!! That's B.s!!!
and I don't wanna break up our team either!!! Gotta get a new offensive coordinator though.. GOT TOO!!!
Holmgren will bring in someone who has a knack for forming a great relationship with the QB, and helping to increase Colt's learning curve.
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j/c
All of us get upset with the losses, especially to teams we thought were inferior to the Browns..and we may not be very happy with the outcome of these last two games of the season, either...
BUT...would a 4 game losing streak, including losses to the Bills and Bengals...translate into MANGINI MUST GO?
If the Browns continue to play ugly football and are dominated by our two most hated conference opponents, my "emotional" side is probably gonna want Mangini's head on a platter. I know my patients and confidence in Mangini and his coaching staff has decreased with each poor performance.
But after giving my emotions time to settle down after the Bills and Bengals humiliations, I have concluded that Holmgren may very well keep Mangini as HC, regardless of how the rest of the season plays out. Though I may not like it if Browns go 5-11 again, and possibly ending this season on a 4 game losing streak... looking ahead to next season, I realize that Holmgren does not have to fire Mangini to continue the rebuilding process that was started last January.
One year into Holmgren's rebuilding process I would estimate that the process might be 25% complete. Regardless of the team's record and stats for 2010, Holmgren and Heckert have upgraded the quality of personnel at several positions and Mangini and his staff have done a decent job of developing the talent.
In 2011, Heckert and Holmgren will continue the rebuilding process upgrading the roster via the draft and free agency and possibly expanding the process to include changes to the coaching staff as well as more additions in the front office.
Mangini's area of expertise is the defense and his involvement in the offense appears to be very limited. For the most part, Daboll and his staff, with the help of Gil Haskell are responsible for the Browns offense, week to week.
This off season, if changes are made to the offensive coaching staff, it will likely be Holmgren, Heckert and Haskell who decide what moves need to be made, not Mangini. I'm sure Holmgren will consult with Mangini concerning all changes, but I doubt that Mangini's approval is necessary.
Changes to the defensive side of the coaching staff would likely involve more of Mangini's input but again, ultimately, Holmgren gets the last word.
The point is, even if Mangini is retained, how much of an impact he has on the rebuilding process, is up to Holmgren. Due to the unique circumstances facing Holmgren in 2011, it might not be possible to make all the desired changes he may want going in to 2011...read on..
The possibility of a lockout/strike as well as other factors could limit the availability of some coaching candidates that Holmgren might be interested in. Most coaches are hired in Jan. and Feb....and there is a near zero percent chance that the players and owners will have an agreement by that time.
That "unknown" may make it more likely that some NFL franchises hold off on "major moves" after the season. Also, some prospective coaching candidates may prefer to stay where they are until the agreement is completed and the details are known.
The "uncertainty" of the 2011 season could have an affect on how Holmgren handles some elements of the Browns rebuilding process. Out of necessity, we may be witnessing a reverse building process, where the last coaching moves are not made until the competition of the 2011 season.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I know my patients
doctor
#gmstrong
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On the long TD run there was obvious and blatant holding on Abe Elam. It was absolutely appalling that they missed it, because it was out towards the edge, and plain as day.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
On the long TD run there was obvious and blatant holding on Abe Elam. It was absolutely appalling that they missed it, because it was out towards the edge, and plain as day.
Yup sure was.................... 
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Quote:
Quote:
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He said the Browns sent the league 14 plays on which they felt the Bengals should've been called for holding. He said the league agreed with about nine.
"It wasn't officiated as tight as it could've been,'' he said.
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ARE U SERIOUS!!!!! That's B.s!!!
'
I'd probably call it BS also if the League hadn't agreed with 9 of those calls.. Of course, he's saying 9,, I don't know if that's accurate or not.. But assuming it is,, That might have been enough to have changed the final score....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Ryan also said that his run defense vs. the Bengals was poor, in part, because the Bengals were holding all over the place. He said the Browns sent the league 14 plays on which they felt the Bengals should've been called for holding. He said the league agreed with about nine.
"It wasn't officiated as tight as it could've been,'' he said.
You have got to be kidding me? And this guy is a coach let alone a professional coach? 
I can see a player complaining/crying about being held, or holding...but a coach? you have got to be kidding me.
This guy is a joke...what a poor display of leadership qualities.....I can understand a coach sending in film to the league office, but don't cry to media like a crybaby over a game ya lost....what a poor display of sportsmanship Rob Ryan...you should be proud...what a message to send to a lockeroom...that its ok to cry and make excuses to the media as to why you lost a game...
You know what, its obvious Rob Ryan doesn't know what the term "winning like a man and losing like a man" means...here Rob i'll explain it to you
when you win....show the other team respect, and give props to your team
when you lose, give props to the winner and KEEP YOUR DAMN TRAP SHUT
quit whining like a darn 5 year old...its is a poor display of sportsmanship and leadership to cry to darn media your being held...players i can understand maybe saying something, but coaches are held to a higher standard...keep your trap shut Ryan.....you look like a darn crybaby...we lost the game move on already!
is it any wonder the media laughs at us? I mean sheesh...now we got a coach crying about being held to the media...what a joke!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Lunacy of Firing Mangini
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