|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
Senate Republicans on Thursday morning filibustered legislation to monitor and treat first responders and emergency workers who suffered illnesses related to 9/11. A vote to quash the filibuster failed by a vote of 57 to 42, three votes short of the necessary threshold. As a result, the proposal is unlikely to pass this year. The bill would provide funding for a health program to treat first responders, construction and cleanup workers and residents who inhaled toxic particles after the collapse of the World Trade Center towers. The $7.4 billion cost of the legislation over 10 years is paid for by a provision that would prevent foreign multinational corporations from using tax havens to avoid taxes on U.S. income. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) blasted Republicans after the vote. “Republicans denied adequate health care to the heroes who developed illnesses from rushing into burning buildings on 9/11. Yet they will stop at nothing to give tax breaks to millionaires and CEOs, even though they will explode our deficit and fail to create jobs. That tells you everything you need to know about their priorities,” Reid said in a statement. The International Association of Firefighters, the National Association of Police Organizations, the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association and the AFL-CIO union, among other organizations, support the legislation. Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), one of the bill’s co-sponsors, made an impassioned plea before the vote to bring it up for consideration. “This vote is about being an American, because from the days at Bunker Hill, when the patriots put down their plows and took up muskets to defend and create our freedom, we always try to take care of them,” Schumer said. “The heroes of 9/11 are no different.” Schumer said some of the police officers and firefighters who rushed to the flaming towers have already been diagnosed with cancers. “Others know it is an almost certainty that they will come down with similar diseases and illnesses that are extremely costly to fight,” he said. Last week, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) released a letter signed by every Senate Republican pledging to block all legislative action until Congress acts on the expiring Bush tax cuts and passes a measure to fund the federal government into 2011. The Senate has yet to vote on either issue. Reid said a bipartisan deal to extend tax rates for two years might receive a vote Saturday. The setback provides a difficult path for the $7.4 billion bill to get approved before the lame-duck session is scheduled to end next week. However, House members were circulating a letter Thursday morning urging the Senate to include the bill in the recent tax deal forged by President Obama. "We feel that we must seize every opportunity possible to ensure that this bill become law," the letter read. Republicans oppose the paid-for healthcare benefits bill because it closes a tax loophole on foreign companies. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) blasted Republicans following the failed filibuster vote. "The idea that tax cuts for millionaires would derail this legislation is simply outrageous and offensive," Gillibrand said in a statement. "The men and women who rushed to the burning towers and worked for hundreds of hours on the pile did not delay, and the Senate should not have delayed either." link ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ IMO, this filibuster is one of the most shameful things the Senate has ever done. I don't care which party you're with, to hold up this legislation is just shameful.
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Well .... the reason the Republicans have blocked this bill, from what I have read, is thet they want to block illegal immigrants from receiving benefits under the $7.4 billion bill.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144 |
The only reason this bill is on the table so late in the game is because the democrats wanted it to fail initially in the house so they could blame the republicans like they're doing now. The shenanigans they used make for an interesting read (link below). They had to bring it to another house vote in September (which passed with a majority), which is why it's being presented in the senate at this late date. politico.com ...and Ytown's correct. Even though it's called the first responders bill, it includes anyone claiming to suffer effects from 911, including illegal aliens. That and the funding for the program are the sticking points.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
Are they upset that illegal aliens who helped on 9/11 are getting coverage or are they upset that there is a loophole allowing any illegal alien to get coverage by claiming they helped in 9/11? Which it is is the difference between whether these republican congressman deserve to be tarred and feathered or not, I think.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144 |
I do think withholding medical care for politics is a crime. From my understanding, this bill isn't just for those who assisted during the aftermath of the attacks. Other than taxing foreign companies who have facilities here in the US, I'm in the dark as to how this bill will be funded.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
I don't believe the illegal aliens have to claim they "helped" at 9-11....they just have to claim thier illnesses were "caused" by 9-11...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
...and Ytown's correct. Even though it's called the first responders bill, it includes anyone claiming to suffer effects from 911, including illegal aliens.
First question that comes to mind....how many "illegal aliens" were subjected to the conditions that caused the health problems first responders are suffering from?
Does it make sense to hold up a bill that would help those first responders who worked to search for survivors and recover the bodies of those trapped in the wreckage of the Twin Towers, BECAUSE THERE MAY BE SOME ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO FILE CLAIMS?
If their were "illegal aliens" who stood up and volunteered to do all they could when there was call for help, we should help them gain their American citizenship...NOT HOLD UP THE BILL.
I'm sorry, I don't buy the GOP's excuse for holding this bill up...it makes no sense...there may be illegals who file claims. This reeks of "political games" at their worst.
How the GOP can turn their backs on the bravest Americans who answered the call to help after the worst attack on the United States in history, is beyond imagination.
There is little doubt that the federal government bears some responsibility for these people, illegal alien or not, who were told by the Bush administration that it was safe to work at ground zero. web page
This claim of illegal aliens...doesn't pass the smell test, IMO. Something else is going on...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Then why wouldn't Democrats allow a revision of the bill to include the illegal alien language?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Then why wouldn't Democrats allow a revision of the bill to include the illegal alien language?
Oh you silly silly man.. any time a bill is hung up because there is something in it that the republicans don't like they are just supposed to hold their nose and vote for it anyway otherwise they are obstructionists.. that is how "compromise" works with the 111th congress...
By the way, I see Dicky Durbin on today talking about how tax hikes really do hurt the ecomony and claiming the extension of the Bush tax cuts as a big win for Obama... Not an ounce of shame in the group... 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
What's wrong with giving illegal aliens health care if caused by those attacks? Their injuries from terrorism aren't as important? The guys who crashed the planes were legal aliens. Ex con murderers who suffered from those attacks would get the care. Just not poor people without papers?
People are so stupid sometimes. It's sad.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Well, you could easily say that it's largely their fault.
If they'd have followed the law, they wouldn't have been there.... thus they wouldn't need taxpayer subsidized health care, would they?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144 |
Quote:
Well, you could easily say that it's largely their fault.
If they'd have followed the law, they wouldn't have been there.... thus they wouldn't need taxpayer subsidized health care, would they?
Slam dunk of the week!
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
What's wrong with giving illegal aliens health care if caused by those attacks? Their injuries from terrorism aren't as important? The guys who crashed the planes were legal aliens. Ex con murderers who suffered from those attacks would get the care. Just not poor people without papers?
People are so stupid sometimes. It's sad.
Actually if you read some other places that don't have 6 democrat quotes and 0 republican quotes (and they are out there.. actual stories that print the republicans side)... the illegal alien part isn't the biggest objection.. there are others.
I think the democrats did a stupid procedural thing by bringing it up the way they did so that the Republicans could not debate it or attempt to make any modifications at all.. seems like political posturing to throw it out there like that... but
My personal opinion.. pass it and move on to bigger things. None of the objections I've seen warrant holding up help to those who need it.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
Quote:
Well, you could easily say that it's largely their fault.
If they'd have followed the law, they wouldn't have been there.... thus they wouldn't need taxpayer subsidized health care, would they?
You could say the same for the fireman and policeman. If they'd have not given a crap about other people, they wouldn't need taxpayer subsidized health care, would they?
Sorry, I was there and i get pretty emotional. A person crushed by a building due to terrorism is a person no matter what their papers say.
If they'd have followed the immigration laws and not tried to get jobs to feed their families and pay taxes, maybe they could have resorted to the drug trade bring cocaine over here since that's the only option for a lot of uneducated Mexicans and then they could contribute to the death of Americans. would that be better.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
If they'd have followed the immigration laws and not tried to get jobs to feed their families and pay taxes, maybe they could have resorted to the drug trade bring cocaine over here since that's the only option for a lot of uneducated Mexicans and then they could contribute to the death of Americans. would that be better.
Maybe if 15 million hard working Mexicans went back to Mexico they could change it from the craphole that it is into a decent country with a decent economy...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 626 |
Quote:
Quote:
If they'd have followed the immigration laws and not tried to get jobs to feed their families and pay taxes, maybe they could have resorted to the drug trade bring cocaine over here since that's the only option for a lot of uneducated Mexicans and then they could contribute to the death of Americans. would that be better.
Maybe if 15 million hard working Mexicans went back to Mexico they could change it from the craphole that it is into a decent country with a decent economy...
wow. that wins the award for most ignorant post i've ever read on this board. and that's saying something.
Do you take pride in others suffering? Are you intentionally being obtuse or are you actually that ignorant of the world that you actually believe that if they return to their HOME, where there families are, where they grew up, where they are welcomed and not spit on, where they speak the language, where they are PROUD to be from, that all it takes is just some elbow grease and everything is rosy.
I'll probably be banned for saying that. If that was your intent, congratulations. But what you just said is more insulting to the American dream than anything Bin Laden has ever railed on. You don't deserve this country. You don't deserve anything it offers. You don't deserve love, life, health, happiness or liberty. If what you said is truly how you feel, I hope you rot in hell for all eternity. I mean that with all my heart. Rot. In. Hell.
Deathdawg out, and in seconds, no doubt, banned.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Quote:
Quote:
Well, you could easily say that it's largely their fault.
If they'd have followed the law, they wouldn't have been there.... thus they wouldn't need taxpayer subsidized health care, would they?
You could say the same for the fireman and policeman. If they'd have not given a crap about other people, they wouldn't need taxpayer subsidized health care, would they?
Sorry, I was there and i get pretty emotional. A person crushed by a building due to terrorism is a person no matter what their papers say.
If they'd have followed the immigration laws and not tried to get jobs to feed their families and pay taxes, maybe they could have resorted to the drug trade bring cocaine over here since that's the only option for a lot of uneducated Mexicans and then they could contribute to the death of Americans. would that be better.
No, no... those people were here doing what they should be doing, and the circumstances came into their normal, legal life.
Those others... they illegally inserted themselves into a situation that happened to have consequences that they happen to not like. Life Sucks... wear a helmet.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798 |
Quote:
No, no... those people were here doing what they should be doing, and the circumstances came into their normal, legal life.
Those others... they illegally inserted themselves into a situation that happened to have consequences that they happen to not like. Life Sucks... wear a helmet.
So is it worth holding the whole bill up just on the chance that some illegal aliens could claim effects from 9/11? Unless some Senator can show me how this is somehow going to become a Health Care Bill for Illegal Immigrants, this argument doesn't hold a lot of water.
Rather, I think Republicans are holding this up due to the way it is funded, rather than this small chance of illegal aliens using the funds illegally. Which I don't understand, b/c it is actually paid for, unlike a lot of things. And it is paid for by closing certain tax loopholes on multinational corporations making income in the US. Seems like one of the least odious ways of raising revenue.
I agree with DC on the point that there really isn't any good reason to hold this up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,288
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,288 |
Apparently the bill was poorly written...and not offered up for consideration, debate, and modification.
Any bill with those characteristics should be voted down...regardless of what's in it.
These are smart people who are paid a lot of money to create our laws. They need to work together to get it right for the benefit of our country.
I hope and pray that the American people are now paying enough attention - and continue to do so - such that our "leaders" feel the heat and that "business as usual" is a thing of the past.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Quote:
So is it worth holding the whole bill up just on the chance that some illegal aliens could claim effects from 9/11? Unless some Senator can show me how this is somehow going to become a Health Care Bill for Illegal Immigrants, this argument doesn't hold a lot of water.
Damned if I know or care... I was just arguing the point; but it wouldn't bother me if it was the case.
The D's want to scream that the R's are denying first responders their care, but by the same token, so are the D's with their insistence on not including that language... it's all a matter of who gets the sound bite out first, I guess.
As was said elsewhere (or perhaps in an article in this thread?), I think they are just delaying it until the more "conservative" Congress comes in in January.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
Quote:
These are smart people who are paid a lot of money to create our laws.
You forgot "by the lobbyists" in your reply.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,288
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,288 |
True enough...I stand corrected/updated.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798 |
Quote:
Damned if I know or care... I was just arguing the point; but it wouldn't bother me if it was the case.
The D's want to scream that the R's are denying first responders their care, but by the same token, so are the D's with their insistence on not including that language... it's all a matter of who gets the sound bite out first, I guess.
As was said elsewhere (or perhaps in an article in this thread?), I think they are just delaying it until the more "conservative" Congress comes in in January.
You're probably right that it is being held up until the new Congress, just as the current Congress is probably rushing it through in order to get some credit for it.
In answer to the argument that illegal aliens might abuse it, to me the bill is pretty simple. It provides for documented government workers who were documented to be there at the time as well as exhibit specific symptoms consistent with exposure to airborne toxins present around ground zero. Becoming a documented government worker is extremely difficult for illegal aliens.
The second group it provides for is people who can document that they were in and around ground zero at the time, and who are experiencing the same symptoms as above. Noted in the text of the bill is that this bill falls under the Social Security Act rules for federal health plans. That means that all this will be taken care of by asking for a SS number and/or other government-issued numbers. Is that perfect? No, as those can be forged (but with difficulty and very stiff penalties if caught). But is it really within the scope of this bill to address that type of fraud? Further, is it really going to do anything to add a clause that says "illegal aliens can't use this," when that language is already clear from the referencing of the Social Security Act?
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h847/text
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Do you take pride in others suffering?
Not at all, which is why I would not wish rotting in hell on any other human being.
Quote:
Are you intentionally being obtuse or are you actually that ignorant of the world that you actually believe that if they return to their HOME, where there families are, where they grew up, where they are welcomed and not spit on, where they speak the language, where they are PROUD to be from, that all it takes is just some elbow grease and everything is rosy.
So if America became... let's say a craphole.... let's say we had an incompetent government who taxed us all to death, who was painfully irresponsible with the money and wasted a large portion of it, and they kept sticking their government nose into private business where it didn't belong and they were all owned by big money business men... and they were failing in their war on drugs and failing to build a sustainable economy.... then you would leave? You would pack up and leave your friends and your family in those conditions? Or would you stay and fight for America? Would you do whatever you had to do to FIX IT? Is it as simple as elbow grease? No, it's not... Is it getting any better by leaving? No, it's not. If it's your home where you are loved and cared for and respected then damn it, you stay and you fight for it. And if you don't want to stay and fight for it, then you pack up and you LEGALLY go somewhere else.
Quote:
where they are PROUD to be from,
Why are they proud to be from there? If there is anything there to be proud of, then why do they sneak through the desert at night, risking their lives and the lives of their children, leaving behind parents and siblings, breaking the law of another nation so they can go live in fear making less than minimum wage cleaning an office building or picking tomatoes and living in fear of being caught and sent back (or at least they should be)... How bad must it be if that is the preferred way to live? And how can you be proud of something so bad?
Quote:
But what you just said is more insulting to the American dream than anything Bin Laden has ever railed on.
Ok... I am living the American dream and I invite all those who wish to live it legally to come and enjoy it.. although the whole notion of "the American dream" is almost dead.
Quote:
You don't deserve this country. You don't deserve anything it offers. You don't deserve love, life, health, happiness or liberty.
I have all of those things, thanks be to God.... and I wish them for everybody, even you.... and especially for those people who are trying to make Mexico a better place.
Quote:
If what you said is truly how you feel, I hope you rot in hell for all eternity. I mean that with all my heart. Rot. In. Hell.
A morality lecture from somebody who wishes another person to rot in hell for all eternity for a differing political opinion... that's neat. I reserve my "rot in hell" comments, at least my sincere ones, for the likes of Hitler and Pedophiles and Bin Laden.... I don't even wish something like on the likes of Obama or Pelosi or Reid or any of the other folks who are accelerating this nation on the fast track to being a second world country with a devalued currency and a faltering economy...... I don't wish it on people with differing opinions.
And I hope you don't get banned. I really don't. Merry Christmas.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Obama or Pelosi or Reid or any of the other folks who are accelerating this nation on the fast track to being a second world country with a devalued currency and a faltering economy...
You talk about it like it's something than began to take shape in the second half of the 2000's.
Bush had the pedal on the floor, as did Clinton and Reagan.
The situation we're facing has been snowballing for a very, very long time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
Its been going on for 30+ years. I just caught an interview with Reagan's chief economic adviser (can't recall the guy's name) that I had recorded a few weeks ago on the Colbert Report and he had a lot of interesting things to say.
Mostly he says how spending is out of control and has been since before Reagan and tax cuts for the wealthy helping small business is complete ... and won't help do anything but buy them some new toys, they won't use it to create jobs. He says the only thing that will fix it is cutting just about everything across the board (especially our bloated defense budget) and only spending what is absolutely necessary for a few decades.
I tend to agree with him, but I can't see our congress ever allowing it to happen. Heaven forbid they don't get their pork.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964 |
General Reply.
I am curious just how it is that a Bill, which fails to pass a Congress wherein BOTH the Senate and the House have Clear, Large, Democrat majorities is somehow the fault of the Republicans? Yet we have people complaining about Ignorance???
Also how a Tax Cut which equally affects ALL taxpayers is deemed a Tax Cut for the Rich when a Democrat talks about a Republican but is somehow a Tax Cut for All when a Democrat talks about another Democrat. Amazing.
I am always greatly amused by the 'peace and love" types who say things like "Mean people suck, you should all be killed". My standard response is "Just EXACTLY who are you going to get to take out the very last one of us?" I apologize to those incapable of the necessary action that understanding this response requires actual thought.
Here's a little story about how "Let's nail the rich SOBs" often works out. Some years ago, there were many custom boat builders in Florida, California, and New England. Some bright boy in congress said "Let's nail the rich" and passed a major tax on high-end boats. People buying such boats did what any one of us would do and sought to spend their money most effectively, in this case meaning overseas. Like buying a Japanese car or Chinese electronics. What then happened was that many US boat builders went under or had to lay off most of their workers, that would be ordinary, hourly-wage folks who actually paid the price for the bright boy's grandstanding.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 9/11 First Responders
|
|
