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[color:"white"] SO why not take this time to see if Charlie can develop,,, [/color] for how long? how many years do you give him? if he doesn't pan out, how many years does it take the next QB? you can tell by watching any rook on the 1st day if he has the skills to develop. what skills are you seeing in chuck? he's mobile and that's it. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" /> [color:"white"] Quit rushing it just because you think its a good Idea and you can't figure out the rest of the issues. [/color] GMAFB Still curious to see what the response will be with this... I guess you will just get "spin" in response... <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
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I'll respond to it. Why in God's name would ANYONE want to draft another QB? Even if you are among those that think Frye isn't the man, it still is flat out ignorant to draft a QB in the 07 draft. We need to build the OL FIRST and THEN find out if we need a QB and if we do, draft him. If the OL isn't addressed and fixed, then it will be more of the same with a new QB. Fix the actual problem. Until you do that, the cycle will continue.
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I'm swinging from you know where Coach,...
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Still curious to see what the response will be with this... I guess you will just get "spin" in response... I responded, but Knox hasn't responded back!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The Steelers are calling for Big Ben's head.
The Browns are calling for Frye's head.
McNair is putting up just as bad numbers but no one is calling for his head.
The difference between the three?
The Ravens have by far the best defense.
The Ravens run the ball more than they pass.
You do not need a stud QB to win games. Actually... the only difference is the W's. Win and noone cares what got ya there.... lose and the microscope is on everything, and is typically the case in anything involving the media, the microscope is usually focused in exactly the wrong spot.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I have said it before and I'll continue to say it. There's no reason to pull the plug on Frye, yet. We need to focus on other parts of the team and there's no sense in messing with the QB position, yet. He's not broke, just badly bent, and we should be able to get at least one more season out of him. If the rest of the team gets it together and he's still struggling, then we can draft whatever UberQuarterback everyone's pimping at that time.
J. I agree this is not a bad option at all. Bring in someone to challenge Frye though. This way we'll know if it's more frye or the oline, plus we have two solid QB's on the team as well which we don't have now.
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[color:"white"] for how long? how many years do you give him?[/color] well you give him usually more then 13 starts, I think next week will mark 1year of him as starting QB, I maybe wrong but its pretty close [color:"white"]if he doesn't pan out, how many years does it take the next QB?[/color] well it depends on the other holes in your team. In cleveland by now if you havent fuigured out its the OL you need to get a clue, weve had what 6 or 7 different starters in 7 years. Fix the OL first and in the meantime let Frye get beaten up. Why draft a new QB just too have him develop the same bad habits as Frye did because of bad protection [color:"white"]you can tell by watching any rook on the 1st day if he has the skills to develop[/color] really.......hmmm which pro team do you work for? and how many 1st rnd QB draft busts have thier been? Im sure those teams that invested that high pick knew the first time that Rookie played he was not an NFL QB <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [color:"white"]what skills are you seeing in chuck? he's mobile and that's it. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />[/color] you're right he is mobile, the biggest reason why you can obviously see that s becaue there is NO O-LINE. if he had times to actually make a read and not have to lock on youi might see some other skills now Im no big charlie groupie, however I do think he has done enough to maybe look at upgrading the TEAM with him staying as the starter. My point is this QB carousel everyone has begun to talk about tyring to start agaion has been a failure in the past and will fail again untill the real issues are fixed It comes down to depth at the QB position and that is one thing we don't have. We need another solid QB on this team incase Charlie does go down. Also to give him some competition. We can pick up a FA QB and adress all our other needs as well..
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Frye now has had 16 starts over two years. That's enough opportunity for an evaluation. I don't think he is the answer, and I do believe his time here for the Browns is limited, but he may very well start next year, because the Browns have little other option. Although I have the Browns picking #5 in the draft, I see both Oakland and Detroit choosing QBs before that point. And I don't see any FA QBs that are worth big contracts.
Sort of makes you wish Dilfer was still here.
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I have to say that I find it odd that everyone talks about QBs all the time and how they need time to develop and such, yet when ours barely has the equivalent of one single season under his belt, they've now seen enough to toss him aside.
Crazy Talk.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I am finally starting to waiver a little on Frye. I dislike the fact that we switch players so quickly when they struggle. However, I am waiting for this offense to actually move the ball and score points and they just cannot do that.
I am not 100% ready to move Frye out and bring in a new starter. I would not mind some quality players being brought in to challenge Frye and be here for a leaning post and good backup. Guys like C. Simms from Tampa and K. Collins from Tennessee should be available to look at.
Bottom line is to repair the OL and that will help anyone who is our QB a lot.
Signing Steinbach - $49.5 million
Signing Lewis - $5 million
Drafting Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn - millions more
Restoring the Browns to champions - priceless.
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I have to say that I find it odd that everyone talks about QBs all the time and how they need time to develop and such, yet when ours barely has the equivalent of one single season under his belt, they've now seen enough to toss him aside.
Crazy Talk. you know what else is funny....when you confront people with this fact, they tell you he has the equilevent to 1 FULL NFL season under his belt with the worst line in the NFL infront of him and that should be enough to tell you hes not a starter if thats the case then Carr shouldve been done in Texas, Leftwhich in Jacksonville, Brees in san diego (when he was there) but all those QB's had a descent line put infront of them and are still starting and range anywhere from average to superstar....... <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />
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The Steelers are calling for Big Ben's head.
The Browns are calling for Frye's head.
McNair is putting up just as bad numbers but no one is calling for his head.
The difference between the three?
The Ravens have by far the best defense.
The Ravens run the ball more than they pass.
You do not need a stud QB to win games. Actually... the only difference is the W's. Win and noone cares what got ya there.... lose and the microscope is on everything, and is typically the case in anything involving the media, the microscope is usually focused in exactly the wrong spot. Eric Turner.. ur right!! u snapped me back into reality.. i mean Frye just really had a BAD game.. Frye needs to stay.. we need to stay course and draft Adrian Peterson and O-line...
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Opening day Browns starting QBs:
1999 - Ty Detmer
2000 - Tim Couch
2001 - Tim Couch
2002 - Kelly Holcomb
2003 - Kelly Holcomb
2004 - Jeff Garcia
2005 - Trent Dilfer
2006 - Charlie Frye
See a pattern of why we always lose? QUIT CHANGING QBs, GET A REAL RUNNING BACK AND FIX THE LINE ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree that we need continuity....but...we also need talent at the position. Off the list of QB starters we've had on opening day since 1999...How many are currently starters in the NFL...ONE...Charlie Frye with the Browns....and the Browns are trying to determine if he is good enough or not. Garcia is a backup who happens to be starting because McNabb is out for the season. Dilfer is a backup. Holcomb is a backup. Couch and Detmer are out of football. We need a starting quality QB. Something we have not had since the expansion Browns entered the League in 1999. I'm not saying we need to draft a 1st round QB. Quinn is the only high rated QB in this years draft...and he'll be gone before we have a chance to draft, but damnit...we need to be looking. Stay the course and acting like everything is "hunky dory" is setting up another "He who shall remain nameless" situation.... When you start a second string QB, you get second string results.... Fix both Lines, get a real QB, find a serviceable RB.....who can block...
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Frye now has had 16 starts over two years. That's enough opportunity for an evaluation. Yeah, 16 games maybe enough if there was a decent team around him,,, it's not if he doesn't. I don't think he is the answer, and I do believe his time here for the Browns is limited, wow, from your mouth to gods ear.... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> I'll never understand how ANYONE can tell if he's gonna be good or not..... If you looked at elway or bradshaw thier first couple of years, the thought would have been they are busts,,,, and at least in the case of Elway, he had a decent team around him. Bradshaw couldn't say that,,,, The Steelers were about where we are now in terms of depth and line and running backs etc etc... Look at Joey Harrington,,, he wasn't very good in Detroit, but he seems to be doing fine in Miami now... All I'm saying is this, without the pieces and parts in place, how the heck do you or anyone else outside of the coaches have any idea if Frye is the right guy,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I knew there was a reason I enjoy your posts,....
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Ok after watching Frye not blossom this season its pretty obvious he won't be our starting QB next year. Then I must be the stupid one, because I don't think it's all that obvious. I think it's obvious that he's struggled but it's not all that obvious that he won't be starting... 1. Matt Shaub, backup to Michael Vick and a real gunslinger in the limited time he's played. In my opinion we roll the dice on him. Roll the dice? What a glowing endorsement. Is it your gut instinct that tells you Schaub would be a good starter? <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />
yebat' Putin
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I'll respond to it. Why in God's name would ANYONE want to draft another QB? Even if you are among those that think Frye isn't the man, it still is flat out ignorant to draft a QB in the 07 draft. We need to build the OL FIRST and THEN find out if we need a QB and if we do, draft him. If the OL isn't addressed and fixed, then it will be more of the same with a new QB. Fix the actual problem. Until you do that, the cycle will continue. FINALLY, SOMEONE WITH SENSE ON THE BOARD!!!!
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j/c I for one am not going to say Frye is the guy or not. He has one year under his belt, and everyone wwants another QB. People have to start to realize, that hey he is getting bashed play after play, and if I were in his shoes I would be a little nervous back there as well. The OL is the biggest problem by far, and everyone on this board sees that, but still want Fryes head. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> This guy has one season under his belt. And if you look at his stats he compare along the sam line as McNabb, Manning not saying he is either, but understand he is basically a rook. I say you have to worry about the OL before you get a good read on the QB. Let it be for the rest of the season, I have seen good and bad from Frye, and still thing he has what it takes.
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I knew there was a reason I enjoy your posts,.... I always like to help out whenever I can <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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BD52, I agree with you.. The line is the primary problem,, But I'm not convinced that it's the individual players,, Let's be honest here, Fraley has played in the superbowl,,,, Yeah, his team lost, but he was good enough to get there.. Coleman won one,,, Druzzi won three... Tucker played in one also,, And Shaffer was a starter on a team in the hunt...
So individually, the pieces and parts aren't all that bad.. Perhaps Druzzi and Coleman are a little too beat up or something, and Tucker is getting long in the tooth and he's sick again, but certainly, if these guys were good enough to start for either pla off or superbowl teams, they are not that bad individually.
So, what's that saying? To me, it's saying that this unit hasn't been taught or coached up enough to get the job done as a unit.
That was Jeff Davidsons job while Moe was here.. Now he's got the whole offense under his wing....
When you think about that, it's a little scary. But I'm not jumping to conclusions yet. It could be as simple as he hasn't had the freedom to do what he wanted to do with them,, Who knows..... But it's a topic that we can at least talk about,,, Right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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J/C
I wonder who the Pats and Seattle are going to have as QBs next year. Yesterday, Brady overthrew 5 guys for sure TDs and 2 ints, Hasselback has thrown 2 picks in the first 5 minutes. They are completely washed up - their careers are over.
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Your scaring me Soup....LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Your scaring me Soup....LOL That was the idea, Hasselback just threw #3 by the way. People on here are ludicrous - so I figured I'd show them how nuts they are by posting the same thing about proven vets. People don't seem to realize that no QB is perfect -even when they have all day to throw
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Hall of Famer
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That Rothlisburger guy in Pittsburg gets sacked 9 times and throws 3 picks. This year he has thown 17 ints.
He must be locking onto his recievers and not getting rid of the ball quick enough.
I guess he should be a free agent soon.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I'll respond to it. Why in God's name would ANYONE want to draft another QB? Even if you are among those that think Frye isn't the man, it still is flat out ignorant to draft a QB in the 07 draft. We need to build the OL FIRST and THEN find out if we need a QB and if we do, draft him. If the OL isn't addressed and fixed, then it will be more of the same with a new QB. Fix the actual problem. Until you do that, the cycle will continue. FINALLY, SOMEONE WITH SENSE ON THE BOARD!!!! Upgrade the OL this offseason and give Frye next year... if, at Thanksgiving of next year he still looks the same, then you have my permission to start a "QB in 2008!" thread... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
yebat' Putin
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The problem is...Both Hasselback and Brady are playing on teams that are in the hunt for the playoffs and have won some games this year...Not only that, but Hasselback is on his first game back from injury.... I don't see you using Plummer for your example...he's supposedly being replaced by Cutler for this coming Sunday's game.
Both Hasselback and Brady are playing on offenses that have scored more than 0 touchdowns in their last three consecutive games....(Falcons - all field goals .. Steelers - two field goals by offense .. Bengals - shutout...no scoring what-so-ever) If Hasselback and Brady were both in the situation of no touchdowns for three games...I'd expect some serious questions to be asked about them and their offensive teams... Just as fans are asking questions about Frye and the Browns offense....
Say what you will, but you can not put Hasselback's and Brady's performances in the same dumpster as Frye's....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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1st String
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Well I see that many of you starting to see Frye Baby for what he is. I have been preaching this since we drafted him but have been berated for the fact that I have said all along that he is a CAREER BACKUP at best. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Carry on because I am enjoying this! <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Well I see that many of you starting to see Frye Baby for what he is. I have been preaching this since we drafted him but have been berated for the fact that I have said all along that he is a CAREER BACKUP at best. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Carry on because I am enjoying this! <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> Good to see you back Corpus... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> I was not in favor of getting rid of Dilfer and handing the job over to Frye simply because he was a Cleveland boy. After the kind of Pre-season Frye had, I'm pretty sure that Dilfer would have won his job back, but Carthon messed us all over on that one by running Trent out of town.... After that....we didn't really have much choice....just as we don't have much choice between now and the end of the year....except maybe seeing if Anderson can show us something in mop up duty.... Problem with that is Anderson is also a second year player with even less game experience than Frye.... We have a lot of problems with the team beyond QB.... but a Vet Free Agent, or a trade might not be beyond the realm of possibility... Chicago has 3 QBs... I wonder if a trade for Griese could be a possibility or who knows.... If the Cutler experiment works out for Denver, maybe we can trade a Defensive Lineman for Plummer.... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Frye would then have to earn his job, not just have it handed to him by a stubborn, micromanaging OC that is now long gone....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Hasselback just threw #3 by the way. People on here are ludicrous - so I figured I'd show them how nuts they are by posting the same thing about proven vets. People don't seem to realize that no QB is perfect -even when they have all day to throw You should have waited until after the game was over to make your point. Hasselbeck finished with 3 INTs and 3 TDs....in his first game back from a month off for injuries.... I would have been very happy with that performance from Frye.... By the way... The Seahawks (Hasselback's team) won 34 - 24. Another result that I would have been happy to have seen from Frye and the Browns....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Hasselback just threw #3 by the way. People on here are ludicrous - so I figured I'd show them how nuts they are by posting the same thing about proven vets. People don't seem to realize that no QB is perfect -even when they have all day to throw You should have waited until after the game was over to make your point. Hasselbeck finished with 3 INTs and 3 TDs....in his first game back from a month off for injuries.... I would have been very happy with that performance from Frye.... By the way... The Seahawks (Hasselback's team) won 34 - 24. Another result that I would have been happy to have seen from Frye and the Browns.... You need to look up the definition of sarcasm. You certainly don't get what it means.
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BTW, LT rushed for over 200 yards. Have the Browns rushed for that this season total, let alone one game? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
We dont' need a veteran to come in and compete, but I think we do need a veteran as a backup and someone to mentor Frye. Even the great Kosar had a mentor and "big brother" type guiding and teaching him in Danielson. Frye hasn't had that and needs that.
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[color:"orange"]The QB situation if far from clear either way, and most have been saying that for a while now.
One thing I know forsure, Frye needs to have a capable back-up to compete with him next preseason, he needs to be pushed. [/color]
[color:"white"]
Go Browns
[/color]
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to all that has replied to me and made jabs behind my back so to speak.........
i am the 1st one to give a QB the chance to prove himself believe it or not. i wanted to give couch a chance. i wanted to give holcomb a chance. i tried to give garcia a chance and dilfer also. why? because everyone of those guys had SOME type of skill other than just being mobile. i haven't seen anything in charlie at all to build on in his development. i've seen him run and that's it. his receivers need to be WIDE open for him to even think about throwing to them. that's why imo he's taking too long to throw. not all receivers are gonna be wide open every snap.
on a lot of downs he'll look at one receiver only. other times he'll keep going back to the same receiver when he does look for more than one. just watch his head during any play and he'll be doing exactly that just about every time.
he's had about one full season under his belt like the HOF's you guys wanna compare him to, but there's a HUGE difference. he had 8 months to correct mistakes after the 1st 5 games. he looks no different today than he did in his 1st coupla games.
this kid is bad and nobody wants to see it all for the sake of continuity.
whatever...........
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Even with a great oline and RB w're still gonna have problems we need a QB that can react. Watch Brees get rid of the ball hes one of the most least sacked QBs in the NFL and you cant tell me its because of his oline? Give me a break. They had one of the worst lines last year and all they have thats different is a center who isnt half as good as Bentley and a rookie guard. So how is it with this crappy to very mediocre oline that they've given up the least sacks in the NFL. I think I would say its the QB! After tonights game its the first time Ive said Frye needs to go. Hes had plenty of time to develop and has not! He's not the future but If he is he'll have his shot to prove it in preseason against someone like Shaub or Huard. You gotta be kidding me. It was their scheme that was that bad last year, not to mention the fact that Bush wasn't their and OH YEAH, neither was McAllister because of injury. How has Frye had plenty of time to develop? If you don't do it your first year starting then you're obviously a bust, especially with two offensive coordinators...one who was an utter moron. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I'm not saying he's all that, but it's people like you who run our QB's out of town.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I agree with you.
Staying the course sounds great.....but only bad teams talk about that and if sticking to the course is heading you into a hurricane....maybe you better change your heading.
I for one have seen Frye and have pretty much arrived at the couclusion I don't like where he is heading.
The only thing worse than having a bad player is sticking with a bad player.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Why would you go out and invest in a new QB this offseason even if you did decide Frye isn't the one (even though I think you once again have judged to quickly)? What good does it do to get a great QB and have him destroyed by the OL? Some people amaze me that they don't understand the most fundamental things in football. The offense is bad so the QB has to go after a handful of starts. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
I am of the opinion you can judge the positions on their own merits without looking at other positions.
We indeed need more line help, but that doesn't sway my opinion on Chuck.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Well, your of an opinion not shared by any coach I know. You can't judge a QB or RB without judging the OL. Otto Graham couldn't do anything with 2 seconds to throw. A player can't develop if not given the opportunity to.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
LOL
Chuck has a line....he isn't crushed on every play.....watch those plays.
Just a question here....and think about this before you just blurt out an answer.....
Can a QB make his Oline look bad?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
[color:"white"]Yes you can (and I can because I ain't no coach *L* <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). You can judge his arm, his hands, his mind, his ability to read a defense, and all in practice without worrying about the line.
Having said all that, I'm not in the camp that can says Frye doesn't have enough game. Maybe I don't believe in him the way you do, but I also can't say he hasn't earned more time under center to find out whether he's the guy or not.
As I said in a thread last week, I believed Frye was only taking baby steps because I knew he was going to have a bad game soon. I didn't get too high on him when he did well, and I won't get too down on him after throwing 3 INT's in the 2nd half.
IMHO he deserves more time, but he isn't perfect, and he won't get forever. I think the organization and players are in his corner, at least for now, but perhaps, only for now. [/color]
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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