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Legend
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Legend
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Just thought this was funny.. Quote:
PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'
Published: Monday, December 20, 2010, 11:40 AM Updated: Monday, December 20, 2010, 3:50 PM
By Special to The Plain Dealer
The claim that the Democratic health care law is a "government takeover of health care" was selected by PolitiFact.com as the 2010 Lie of the Year.
In the spring of 2009, a Republican strategist settled on a brilliant and powerful attack line for President Barack Obama's ambitious plan to overhaul America's health insurance system. Frank Luntz, a consultant famous for his phraseology, urged GOP leaders to call it a "government takeover."
"Takeovers are like coups," Luntz wrote in a 28-page memo. "They both lead to dictators and a loss of freedom."
The line stuck. By the time the health care bill was headed toward passage in early 2010, Obama and congressional Democrats had sanded down their program, dropping the "public option" concept that was derided as too much government intrusion. The law passed in March, with new regulations, but no government-run plan.
But as Republicans smelled serious opportunity in the midterm elections, they didn't let facts get in the way of a great punchline. And few in the press challenged their frequent assertion that under Obama, the government was going to take over the health care industry.
PolitiFact editors and reporters have chosen "government takeover of health care" as the 2010 Lie of the Year. Uttered by dozens of politicians and pundits, it played an important role in shaping public opinion about the health care plan and was a significant factor in the Democrats' shellacking in the November elections.
And yet, the phrase simply is not true. See the full story at PolitiFact.com. Then come back here to comment.
© 2010 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
Here is the rest of it for ya.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...er-health-care/
It's strikes me as funny the lengths politicians will go to to mislead the american people.. People found to have done this should be barred from ever being allowed to hold office, or consult for any political group or politician.
All I know is, until our politicians stop lying to us, we are gonna be stuck in the mud, just spinning our wheels.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Were lies 2-10 on the list all of the lies the administration told about how much it was going to cost and how it was going to have a positive impact on business and how our economy would rebound if only it was passed and all of that other stuff they tried to sell even though they had not read nor did they understand the law they were passing?
yebat' Putin
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Hall of Famer
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Does the fact that the American people DO NOT WANT THIS have any effect on the Dems. NO it doesn't they snuck around in secret meetings and jammed it down our necks anyway.
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Legend
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Actually, that was a readers poll in the liberal leaning St. Petersburg Times. The other nominees were by and large anti-republican also. That smells to high heaven. web page Lie of the Year: Readers' poll results By Angie Drobnic Holan Published on Thursday, December 16th, 2010 at 11:29 p.m. Here are the readers' poll results: 1. ObamaCare is a "government takeover" of health care. -- Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio; Rep. C.W. Bill Young, R-Fla.; the Republican Party of Florida; Lt. Gov.-elect Rebecca Kleefisch, R-Wis.; and others: 43.9 percent 2. "The president of the United States will be taking a trip over to India that is expected to cost the taxpayers $200 million a day." -- Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., 19.2 percent 3. "The stimulus has not created one private sector job." -- Gov.-elect Rick Scott, R-Fla., and others: 13.9 percent 4. "Ninety-four percent of small businesses will face higher taxes under the Democrats' plan." -- Rep. Randy Neugebauer, R-Texas, and others: 8.8 percent 5. The ethics report "exonerates me." -- Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., 6.7 percent 6. "Taliban Dan" Webster thinks wives should submit to their husbands. -- Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Fla., 2.6 percent 7. "Phoenix is the No. 2 kidnapping capital of the world." -- Rep. John McCain, R-Ariz., and others: 1.8 percent 8. Other: 1.6 percent 9. Republicans want to dismantle or privatize Social Security. -- Florida Democratic Party and others: 1.5 percent
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
The other nominees were by and large anti-republican also. That smells to high heaven.
To me it makes sense. If we had a republican president right now, it'd be the exact opposite. Afterall, I'm sure the dems did the same to Dubya (or at least tried).
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2nd String
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I don't do the whole right/left, D/R thing, so I went into this with an open mind and the article contradicted itself: Quote:
Republicans who maintain the Democratic plan is a government takeover say that characterization is justified because the plan increases federal regulation and will require Americans to buy health insurance. . .
The article qualifies 'government takeover' as increased federal government regulation, and then...
Quote:
But while those provisions are real. . .
Really? 
Quote:
Consider some analogies about strict government regulation. The Federal Aviation Administration imposes detailed rules on airlines. State laws require drivers to have car insurance. Regulators tell electric utilities what they can charge. Yet that heavy regulation is not described as a government takeover.
Doesn't cite a source-- relies on the generalized D vs. R; because particular Ds or Rs may be affiliated with party z hold belief x, therefore the entire party holds belief x.
But I will right here say those operations are serious 'government takeovers' but unfortunately, with the way the Supreme Court has ruled [I discussed this in another thread actually] the regulations have been interpreted as Constitutionally justified. Do I agree with that interpretation? No. Is it reality? Until it's successfully challenged, yes it is. Forcing a private citizen to buy healthcare is different than forcing a large commercial business to abide by certain regulations. I can decide not to drive or operate aircrafts. The only way to avoid healthcare penalties are either I die or I move out of the country, but since the Constitutional provisions protect my individual rights to life and property, that's not an option.
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Legend
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Quote:
Biggest lie of 2010
If it wasn't for the fact you put polifact in front of this I would have thought the article was about Brian Daboll being called an offensive coordinator.
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Legend
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Dudes,, I did say it was funny didn't I.. Or once again, when someone posts something of a negative nature about Republicans,, the instant response is to jump on the poster.. Geesh,, Relax.. if you think I don't know that ALL politicians are liars, then you don't know me at all..... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Daman...if we add another element to the political reality equation of 2010 politics..we get a clearer picture how the "lie game" works to the advantage of those telling the lies and who is promoting the lies...
Why are Fox News viewers the most uninformed (proof inside)?
In eight of the nine questions below, Fox News placed first in the percentage of those who were misinformed (they placed second in the question on TARP). That’s a pretty high batting average for journalistic fraud. Here is a list of what Fox News viewers believe that just aint so:
•91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
•72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
•72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
•60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
•49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
•63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
•56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
•38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
•63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)
The conclusion is inescapable. Fox News is deliberately misinforming its viewers and it is doing so for a reason. Every issue above is one in which the Republican Party had a vested interest. The GOP benefited from the ignorance that Fox News helped to proliferate. The results were apparent in the election last month as voters based their decisions on demonstrably false information fed to them by Fox News.
By the way, the rest of the media was not blameless. CNN and the broadcast network news operations fared only slightly better in many cases. Even MSNBC, which had the best record of accurately informing viewers, has a ways to go before it can brag about it.
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FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Dawg Talker
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yahoo answers as a credible resource? 
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Legend
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Quote:
yahoo answers as a credible resource?
Did you read the answers in that link? It reads like mac wrote the article...........
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2nd String
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Quote:
ALL NEWS SOURCES LIE, IT IS UP-TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES TO SIFT THROUGH AND DISCERN TRUE FROM FALSE.
Agreed. 
Just for kicks from the original article...
Quote:
In most cases those who had greater levels of exposure to news sources had lower levels of misinformation.
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Legend
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Quote:
Does the fact that the American people DO NOT WANT THIS have any effect on the Dems. NO it doesn't they snuck around in secret meetings and jammed it down our necks anyway.
The question is "Why don't they want it"? They sure did want it during the 2008 elections.
But terms like "Death panels" and the term so aptly pointed out by Damon stemmed the tide.
You can use fear and lies to trick people into believing most anything if it sounds scary enough and you repeat it enough.
Happens all the time. Kind of like the "mushroom cloud" line Bush used to scare the American people into supporting a war with Iraq. Same old, same old.
I just wonder how long, if ever, before the overall voting public figure out these fear tactics are BS and begin to ignore them. The boy who cried wold effect has to hit eventually one would think.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
yahoo answers as a credible resource?
Buckeye..I admit, the yahoo source was rather brief and didn't expand into much commentary...obviously it was not enough to satisfy you...allow me to expand upon the yhoo source.
Study Confirms That Fox News Makes You Stupid
A new survey of American voters shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources.
December 15, 2010
Yet another study has been released proving that watching Fox News is detrimental to your intelligence. World Public Opinion, a project managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, conducted a survey of American voters that shows that Fox News viewers are significantly more misinformed than consumers of news from other sources. What’s more, the study shows that greater exposure to Fox News increases misinformation.
So the more you watch, the less you know. Or to be precise, the more you think you know that is actually false. This study corroborates a previous PIPA study that focused on the Iraq war with similar results. And there was an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll that demonstrated the break with reality on the part of Fox viewers with regard to health care. The body of evidence that Fox News is nothing but a propaganda machine dedicated to lies is growing by the day.
In eight of the nine questions below, Fox News placed first in the percentage of those who were misinformed (they placed second in the question on TARP). That’s a pretty high batting average for journalistic fraud. Here is a list of what Fox News viewers believe that just aint so:
•91 percent believe the stimulus legislation lost jobs
•72 percent believe the health reform law will increase the deficit
•72 percent believe the economy is getting worse
•60 percent believe climate change is not occurring
•49 percent believe income taxes have gone up
•63 percent believe the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts
•56 percent believe Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout
•38 percent believe that most Republicans opposed TARP
•63 percent believe Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear)
The conclusion is inescapable. Fox News is deliberately misinforming its viewers and it is doing so for a reason. Every issue above is one in which the Republican Party had a vested interest. The GOP benefited from the ignorance that Fox News helped to proliferate. The results were apparent in the election last month as voters based their decisions on demonstrably false information fed to them by Fox News.
By the way, the rest of the media was not blameless. CNN and the broadcast network news operations fared only slightly better in many cases. Even MSNBC, which had the best record of accurately informing viewers, has a ways to go before it can brag about it.
The conclusions in this study need to be disseminated as broadly as possible. Fox’s competitors need to report these results and produce ad campaigns featuring them. Newspapers and magazines need to publish the study across the country. This is big news and it is critical that the nation be advised that a major news enterprise is poisoning their minds.
This is not an isolated review of Fox’s performance. It has been corroborated time and time again. The fact that Fox News is so blatantly dishonest, and the effects of that dishonesty have become ingrained in an electorate that has been been purposefully deceived, needs to be made known to every American. Our democracy cannot function if voters are making choices based on lies. We have the evidence that Fox is tilting the scales and we must now make certain its corporate owners do not get away with it.
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Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
The conclusion is inescapable. Fox News is deliberately misinforming its viewers and it is doing so for a reason. Every issue above is one in which the Republican Party had a vested interest. The GOP benefited from the ignorance that Fox News helped to proliferate. The results were apparent in the election last month as voters based their decisions on demonstrably false information fed to them by Fox News.
By the way, the rest of the media was not blameless. CNN and the broadcast network news operations fared only slightly better in many cases. Even MSNBC, which had the best record of accurately informing viewers, has a ways to go before it can brag about it.
So what this article is basically saying is that all the news outlets in this country deliberately misinform people to push their agendas? Gee, ya think?
I hate Fox News with a passion (I even have a "Turn Off Fox: Bad News for America" sticker  ), and generally agree with this articles assertions about Fox News viewers being ignorant, but by its own admission this is a problem with all news networks. They just demonized Fox News and mentioned the other networks in passing because they have a left leaning slant. You could rewrite this article and replace Fox News with the liberal media and mention Fox News only in passing and you'd have the same information in the article, only with a right leaning slant.
Its funny to me that the article makes such a big deal out of what Fox News does on its programs, yet it reeks of hypocrisy as it tries to turn people's anger towards Fox while distracting them from the other news outlets doing the same exact thing. And when I say funny, I mean that in the smells funny kind of way, not haha funny. 
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Legend
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What amazes me is, I haven't watched FOX news in................I couldn't tell you the last time. I watch NO news - other than the local news stations and local news - but even that is maybe once a week.
I don't watch FOX news, nor ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC - none of them.
I get my news from Yahoo, and cnn's website.
But mac thinks I bow down to FOX - just shows his ignorance I guess.
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Dawg Talker
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I don't watch news on t.v. I will go to MSNBC.com before I watch it. I go to RealClearPolitics.com, Politico, Drudge, Huffingtonpost, Global Voices, Christian Science Monitor, BBC, a few others too . . . wide range of topics, wide range of angles, better way to view current events in my opinion.
Those talking heads on t.v. all of them, from Chris Matthews to Bill O'Reilly are crap.
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Legend
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Quote:
I don't watch news on t.v. I will go to MSNBC.com before I watch it. I go to RealClearPolitics.com, Politico, Drudge, Huffingtonpost, Global Voices, Christian Science Monitor, BBC, a few others too . . . wide range of topics, wide range of angles, better way to view current events in my opinion.
Those talking heads on t.v. all of them, from Chris Matthews to Bill O'Reilly are crap.
Here's how out of the loop I am........I don't know who Chris Matthews is - don't have a clue if he R or D, left or right, or anywhere in between.
O'rielly I believe is a republican - or conservative I believe.
I have never seen their shows. Not even once.
I do catch Glen Beck on radio - and Rush - when I'm in my vehicle........so on an average day I hear about a total of 30 to 40 minutes from each of them.
I get my news elsewhere - and I form my own opinion.
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You might want to add Debka.com to that list for a middle east perspective. It's slanted toward the Jewish side, but there are stories there that don't make it to other media.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Politifact: Biggest lie of 2010
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