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Is Mangini hitting his head on a glass ceiling, showing once again, he can build a foundation, but it limited beyond this point?
It's quite possible, mac. And- if it's true, I still wouldn't mind him here for one more year to let the concrete cure. A deeper roster would tell me if his coaching is the problem or if he's being hamstrung by the lack of talent. One more year would show me enough to know for sure.
That said, if Holmy puts him on the curb this year, I'll have to trust that he has a better option for us in the waiting.
As I said before, I'm not really a Mangini apologist; I see his deficiencies as well as any other poster here. I also see his positives, which have actually helped here. If he's just a builder, so be it; I just hope his replacement (if there is to be one) can actually take us to that next step.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I siad this before, many times, and I'll say it again.
Neither BE nor KW2 were going to sign another contract in Cleveland.
Ridding the team of their "personalities" was just a tertiary benefit IMO.
Benefits of dumping them:
1. lower payroll
2. get picks and players. some of those picks/players have worked out
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That is one seriously long, demented rant based upon your desired ASSumption that the team has lost money. How about showing it to be relevant before going off on an Economics 101 tangent  Until then, you're just letting goofy things that have no bearing clutter your mind (and the thread).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I cannot believe that there is ANY sane mind that is STILL upset over us dumping K2 & BE. Insanity.
I miss K2 because while he was a firey idiot, he was a great receiver.
BE... seriously? May as well have put 20lbs on Quincy Morgan.
In the end, NEITHER wanted to be HERE. NEITHER wanted to be in an environment where they were going to be held accountable and held to the same standards as everyone else.
Great potential talents, equally great headcases and there was absolutely no room for either here. The team's hand was forced in both instances.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You just had to prove me right, didn't you? You are not capable of discussing ANY aspect of the team without bringing Mangini into it. A WR running better routes, getting off the line faster, being more physical, knowing the plays better, getting in synch with his QB, running faster, jumping higher, NONE of that and NOTHING ELSE matters because Mangini did something wrong somewhere.
Makes it kinda pointless listening to you until we get a new HC.
Now on the Delhomme substitution for Wallace, I have a theory on that. The other option was McCoy, who was not ready yet, yes, maybe he should've got more reps that week BUT - this is also "the Kid", hand-picked by the Grand Pubah hisself, who also decreed that he would sit all year. Now that's not Randy talkin', but THE WORD of THE MAN. Delhomme was the best option that would not potentially ruin the Kid. He was a sacrificial lamb. After that game, Colt began getting starter reps because he was now the ONLY option.
So, it's Holmgren's fault.
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All Pro
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I cannot believe that there is ANY sane mind that is STILL upset over us dumping K2 & BE. Insanity.
I miss K2 because while he was a firey idiot, he was a great receiver.
BE... seriously? May as well have put 20lbs on Quincy Morgan.
In the end, NEITHER wanted to be HERE. NEITHER wanted to be in an environment where they were going to be held accountable and held to the same standards as everyone else.
Great potential talents, equally great headcases and there was absolutely no room for either here. The team's hand was forced in both instances.
K2 was let go for all the right reasons. He wasn't going to sign again, as you pointed out. He also had some issues with his knees. I think that deal was one where both sides were happy with the result. He was a fiery idiot but he was our fiery idiot and oh how he shined.
Edwards? What's he doing on the Jets? There's no excuse for it except he isn't much of a football player.
I'm betting Mangini gets a new OC. This won't be a bad thing. And the haters will continue to hate for another year. Maybe they'll be right, maybe not.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Actually, Winslow probably would have re-signed, but he wanted the contract that he got from the Bucs.
He wound up being the highest paid TE in the NFL.
We have Watson now, an dhe's about the same player as Winslow at this point in their respective careers.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He is actually BETTER than Winslow because Watson actually BLOCKS!!!!!!
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Do U watch?
Yes quite often....do you???
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How many times are they so predictable in the redzone or a close yard from the endzone but call something stupid that makes them settle for the FG?
I don't know....do you have a number or are you just pulling something out of your butt and saying something as fact with no proof behind it?????
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How many times are they confused about what to run on a crucial down?
You made an inferrence that you have watched the games....confusion has not really been an issue.....what team have you been watching?????Syacuse????...they have Orange helmets too....Now if you think they made the wrong call for the play that is a separate issue and a differenence of opinion with the coaching staff...but that is not what you said....you said confusion about what play to call.....and that has not been an issue....There is no confusion...they wanted to run the play they called. If you don't like it....well too bad....put your resume in for Offensive Coordinator.
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How often do they waste time or timeouts because they don't know what to run or they have the wrong players coming in or still out in the huddle??
Again....do you have a number or are you pulling stuff out of your butt again.....this also has not been an issue. What games have you been watching????
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And how do you even credit Dabol who is inconsistant with his playcalling as any OC we've seen?
Just where have I done that????If anything I praised him for some of his ingenuity in individual plays....But have blasted him for his lack of rythm and play calling. I believe I likened it to a Drag racer who pumps the throttle and jerks the steering wheel all over the place.....Sure it confuses the other driver.....but you don't get down the track very smoothly and you don't win the race...
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For a team to lose as many close games as they have,it also falls on coaching as well as execution.
Absolutely it falls on coaching as well....but execution plays a REALLY BIG role don't you think????
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Well looks like your butt needs to be educated if it can..they've squandered too many TO's because of not knowing what they're doing or having the wrong people in/out.Your HC said they wasted time outs on too many occasions.Or are U gonna say I'm making that up?
Look at the Jet game in the OT..they didn't even know what to run in that series down inside the 5 .
Bills game..classic..there's another 2/3 games I know they were befuddled what to do in short down situations.
These dumb decisions to onside kick are hilarious..dazzle 'em if you can..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/29/10 03:49 PM.
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So do you have a number or what???? and how does it compare with every other team in the league?
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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what do i care about the other teams?What kinda excuse is that?
U obvious know it's a problem for this team.
If they were truely improving those silly things wouldn't be happening.
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You know in the Patriots game Tom Brady was confused by our Defense.....so was Drew Brees when we played them......
I guess the Saints and Patriots need to look for new QB's as well....
Unless you can show it is out of the ordinary and have some numbers behind it....why bring it up????
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Thats cute,trying to relegate it to the defense making the offense look confused ,when I'm talking about the coaching staff not knowing what to do in certain situations and not being on top of things.. when you burn timeouts for not getting plays/personnel in or you are indecisive in your series of what to do,that falls on the coaching staff..when a rookie QB calls out the playcalling something is wrong.When a team is up and down week after week something is wrong.
When a team doesn't know what formation they want to run,thats got little to do with the defense ,thats got everything to do with people not being on the same page.
When I hear a OC or a player say they were spending a lot of time TRYING TO FIGURE OUT what the D was doing something is wrong..teams get camera shots from the booth,they see things they should be able to analize what the D is doing ..the fact they spent x-amount of time trying to figure that out instead of being able to see it,then counter means it's over their head.
Maybe like it's over yours.
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You just had to prove me right, didn't you? You are not capable of discussing ANY aspect of the team without bringing Mangini into it. A WR running better routes, getting off the line faster, being more physical, knowing the plays better, getting in synch with his QB, running faster, jumping higher, NONE of that and NOTHING ELSE matters because Mangini did something wrong somewhere.
Again...who cares? You make it sound as if Robo is on the verge of being a PB WR, with all those "improvements"...hey give me 1 TCamp and I will greatly improve at all of the above too but I'd still suck as a NFL WR...and so does Robo...here's reality:
13 games, 10 starts: 27rec, 275yds, 2 TDs...in his 2nd year, being a Top50 pick
Good luck finding a WR in this league with 10+ starts who has worse stats...even Stuckey has been more productive, even backup TEs and RBs have been more productive catching the ball...in fact it's another of many mysteries using players why Robo's ahead of him on the depth chart
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Is Mangini the right man to take this team to the next level?
mourg...in a nutshell...that's it...is Mangini the type of head coach to take the Browns to the playoffs, which would be the next level, imo.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I believe he's that guy - big time, simply because if this team, this year - playing the second toughest schedule in the league - had some more talent, we'd be in the playoffs - guaranteed.
If our defense had a pass rush, and if we had legitimate receiving targets, I have no doubt at all that we'd be there.
Like I broke it down a week or two ago..... take just ONE red zone possession per game and convert a FG to a TD: We'd be what... 11-4 right now?
We'd damn near be looking at three teams from the AFC North going to the playoffs, and that is simply from being able to punch it in on one possession per game. Not taking away any INTs or even accounting for if we had a pass rush or were a little better against the run.... that is just finishing one drive per game that was already a scoring drive.... and that is against some of the absolute best teams in the league. That is still including all of our crazy, fubar mistakes and everything.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.
A WR, who had been virtually invisible up until about three weeks ago, has in that time produced 2 TD, along with significant yardage and catches, and you could care less?
You like to isolate stats, you mean to say that Robo's production over the last three weeks is worthless, something you do not want on our team?
The only reason I can see is that there is no angle to make Mangini look bad here.
WHY has Robo's production increased? What is happening that did not happen before?
I should explain this to you. See, when a player who has done almost nothing suddenly gets 2 TDs and significant yardage over 3 games, I think that is a good thing. I want to determine if it will continue, because if it does, we will be more likely to win more games. I DO NOT CARE if this makes a coach look good or bad, or to hear that it does not matter for some illogical reason.
I did nothing even resembling calling him a ProBowl WR, YOU at first dismissed any improvement and then stated it was not important.
I will challenge you AGAIN. Discuss Robo's improvement, What, How, and Why, without mentioning the HC in any way. Is he running better routes, being more physical, what? If you really don't care and just want continue bashing Mangini, fine, have at it, I won't be noticing.
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Like I broke it down a week or two ago..... take just ONE red zone possession per game and convert a FG to a TD: We'd be what... 11-4 right now?
prp....IF..
It is fun to play the "IF" game...unfortunately, reality sets in and the Browns are 5-10, last in our division with a 1-4 record against division opponents. Even if we play the "IF" game against our division opponents, the Browns would be 2-3, in 3rd place, heading into the Pittsburgh game.
Holmgren's job is fix what is wrong with the Browns..to deal with the "HOW".
How do the Browns improve enough to make the playoffs?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Quote:
Like I broke it down a week or two ago..... take just ONE red zone possession per game and convert a FG to a TD: We'd be what... 11-4 right now?
prp....IF..
It is fun to play the "IF" game...unfortunately, reality sets in and the Browns are 5-10, last in our division with a 1-4 record against division opponents. Even if we play the "IF" game against our division opponents, the Browns would be 2-3, in 3rd place, heading into the Pittsburgh game.
Holmgren's job is fix what is wrong with the Browns..to deal with the "HOW".
How do the Browns improve enough to make the playoffs?
We can always "Hope" for Change....we do it when electing a President.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
Like I broke it down a week or two ago..... take just ONE red zone possession per game and convert a FG to a TD: We'd be what... 11-4 right now?
prp....IF..
It is fun to play the "IF" game...unfortunately, reality sets in and the Browns are 5-10, last in our division with a 1-4 record against division opponents. Even if we play the "IF" game against our division opponents, the Browns would be 2-3, in 3rd place, heading into the Pittsburgh game.
Holmgren's job is fix what is wrong with the Browns..to deal with the "HOW".
How do the Browns improve enough to make the playoffs?
Like you said, it's Holmgren's job to answer that, but I already gave you my answer: Improve the talent level because the rest is working and had the talent been better and deeper, we'd be in the mix of everything at this moment.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You like to isolate stats, you mean to say that Robo's production over the last three weeks is worthless, something you do not want on our team?
Lol, what part of posting SEASON stats is "isolating" stats, that's as bottom line as it gets? YOU are doing this by talking about his last 3 weeks....and he 2 catches in 2 starts in those 3 games, that's pretty lame by any measure....
and if you'd be able to read you'd have noticed that I of course see improvement (again how hard is it to improve from non-active and non catching? should I party over 2 catches just because he sucked so bad before?) ...my point is that it's insignificant improvement because he still sucks...he's still a well below AVG WR...dude, you're defending a WR that hasn't even had a 100yd game in 2 years in the league...do you remember Frisman Jackson? me neither and even that guy had a 100yd game as do many other insignificant to bad WRs in this league...trot them out every week, throw them the ball enough (and he has single coverage since joining the league) and he'll get 5 catches for 80yds or those magnificient 2 catches for 35yds vs BAL...WOW, he's so "improved" lol...but you're right...Mangini took a bad WR early in round 2 and worked so hard with him that he pimped him from "busted" pick to just "wasted", you're cheerleadin "improvement" from sucking to "slightly less sucking"...same goes in general for the MAngini tenure
but yeah, Mangini is great, no one else could have accomplished this feat, Robo's now catching 2 ball a game ...that's something I guess
Also, I'm not sure Mangini taught him running better routes since he was busy to teach Haden how to intercept a ball properly...it was a "proud coaching moment", remember?  He can take those moments all with him on his way out to the UFL and his buds Ventrone, StClair, Royal, Barton, Trusnik etc too...we won't miss any of them
You have no point dude, you're just ranting at me...consider this my last response to you about this....last bullet is yours, use it wisely and this time aim your cheap shot better
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I believe he's that guy - big time, simply because if this team, this year - playing the second toughest schedule in the league - had some more talent, we'd be in the playoffs - guaranteed.
Rinse and repeat: we lost 4 of 4 games against Top 10 pick teams in 2009, we lost twice to 2 win teams and got very lucky against another...better talent? BUF beat us with a bunch of late rounders and UDFAs (F.Jackson, Fitzpatrick, some TE named Stupar was the leading REC that day, S.Johnson etc)...how many times will you argument-resistent apologists run this argument out there while it's been disproven not once but thrice at least? Of course we'd win more games with better talent but even with a donut as HC we'd win them.....great Mangini defense: he'd win with better players, lol who wouldn't...the question is: does he maximize the talent at hand? does he put them in situations to succeed?...to both I see a big fat NO
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Rinse and repeat:
That's what every single one of your posts is - glad you know it.
You are not some football guru - sorry to inform you.
You make up stats, belittle people that have differing opinions, and turn tail like mac does when faced with facts.
You think I have run off good posters? Dude, you are the closest thing to "my way or the highway - or I'll make things up to 'prove' you wrong - that there is..
Just save us all the drama - you hate mangini. Okay? We all get it.
Sad thing is, when you USED to talk football, you made a point every once in a while. This year? Uh, .........not so much.
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It's really not my problem that all points I can come up with, and I make tons of them...all about this team or league, all football related..you just happen to not like to listen to them but they're valid, lead pretty often to incompetence in coaching....mine are cold hard facts not wishy-washy stuff you guys have to rely on...and I get that it frustrates you but it is what it is....I don't like relying on "faith" or some fairy tale stuff like "process", sorry
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I specifically stated, TWICE, that Robo's "improvement" could be discussed without even MENTIONING Mangini. How you get from there to saying I give Mangini credit for the improvement, is a degree of twistedness I will waste no further time on.
Cheap shot? I got two words for you and they ain't Happy Birthday.
I asked to discuss FOOTBALL. All you got is hate.
Don't bother responding. I've had all I can take of you. You are now invisible.
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murky, for sure... and they're valid questions. Quote:
1. Is Mangini capable of taking that foundation and willing to build on it with talent that may be a bit difficult to manage?
2. Can Mangini's philosophy of conservatively running and stopping the run win consistently in today's NFL, especially without a good passing attack?
3. Is it possible for this coaching staff and front office from completely different ends of the philosophical spectrum to co-exist and achieve "best results"?
4. Is Mangini too stubborn to make the right decisions in a timely manner regarding "his guys" when they just aren't performing (Daboll, Delhomme, Wright, etc.)
5. Will Mangini ever learn to be a good gameday coach who is capable of consistently solid in-game adjustments and clock management?
1. No crystal ball here, so I'd never presume to say yes. At the same time, it's entirely possible. In this instance, a valuable performer who's a bit of a head case would be less disruptive on a solidified team than one which is still being put together. Evidence (of a sort): remember the cold friction between Mangini and Rogers last year? Herd to remember for some, because we see no evidence of it now. I have to conclude that they found a way past their issuesenough for Rogers to still be around after 2 seasons. It's been common knowlege for years that Rogers had a bit of the Randy Moss in him ("I play when I feel like it"), but we've seen nothing but effort and production from him under Mangini. So... it possible that he could coach 'difficult types.' but who can sat for sure?
2. No. It can't succeed... as we've seen. Now, a good passing attack is Heckert's job this offseason. It's a chicken/egg proposition: would we even BE this conservative if there were better WR's on the roster? Again, murky- but still TBD. If we landed a TO-type or two over the winter and he he wasted their talents by STILL coaching a conservative game plan, I'd want him gone, too. We can't know that from the evidence we have at present
3. If they're professionals, they can. Look- if Holmy sees the core a 3-4 that can perform like Pitts, I'd have to think he'd take the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Just because he coached in a 4-3 system dooesn't mean that he lacks the football acumen to understand it or appreciate it's effectiveness. If that should end up being the case, he puts Heckert on the job to get the best players for the 3-4. Same with the O, although I'm much more inclined to think that Daboll is gone, which would make it easier for him to install a WCO OC. I think an O revamp would be easier, given the players we already have.
4. Good question... I have no answer for that, as don't know what his rationale was for leaving the aforementioned guys in as long as he did. Injuries? Bad practices from the potential replacements? Colt not ready? Wish I had the answer.
5. It's possible. Everyone with an open mind can learn, and he has one of the best coaching minds around to learn from. Would Holmy sit him down in the film room and break down his coaching like the players get? If so, there's hope. So it's possible. Is it probable? I'd have to be inside 76 Groza to have a better feel for that. If Holmy already HAS done this with Mangini, it hasn't taken taken root enough for my tastes yet. I still scratch my head at least once or twice per game, but that's been happening since I started watching football, you know? (Red Right 88, anyone?)
Can't argue with your final synopsis at all. My next question would be: "Is there anyone out there and available who possesses all Mangini's stengths AND brings the next level of coaching as well?" The answer to that question is almost as difficult and murky as your 5 points.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Let me see if I can summarize your arguments with respect to my response to Clem..... I disagree with you so I'm a moron. That about sum it up? I will tell you that I'm not the one playing with my joystick but I am afraid to ask if you are..... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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There are a number of things that I see, I try to avoid most of the game chipping, but my thoughts on the team and Mangini are as follows.
We need a more productive passing attack. We can look at QB/WR/RT as being the primary reasons why our passing attack was not very good. Larry Fitzgerald will probably wind up with 1100 to 1200 yards despite a QB situation that is far worse than the one in Cleveland. The difference in stats between a good player surrounded by not much, and a good player on a good team is probably 30 to 50 percent. But good players are obivous on good or bad teams. I would put Calvin Johnson in the same category.
The Browns are obviously weak at WR, and the team will not imporve until the situation is resolved.
We need to figure out if Colt is the answer, or find someone who is.
A good coach adapts to his personnel rather than the other way around. Shula won with a great run game, had great teams and went to the Superbowl with Marino. Sure they may have tendancies, but they will figure out what is the appropriate philosphy for the personnel.
I did not shed a tear over Winslow and Edwards. Only the quality and productivity of their replacements. Watson is better than Winslow today.
I have always been a H&H fan, and neutral on Mangini. I did not like the influx of former Jets.
I think Mangini is too loyal to his type of player to a fault.
I have seen obvious lapses in game management that concern me.
So,
1. Maybe
2. No. You need a passing game.
3. Maybe
4. No, Mangini needs to improve in personnel and playing time allocation.
5. No Mangin needs to improve in game management.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
If our defense had a pass rush, and if we had legitimate receiving targets, I have no doubt at all that we'd be there.
Purp...What's the difference in having a Pass Rush when teams carve right thru this Front 7 at will???
Everyone wants the "Glorified" OLB the likes of Harrison...That's fine and good...We still won't be able to get pressure the way we want until the FRONT THREE are solidified...We have got to start right there...
We have a NT in Rubin...But outside of him we have a bunch of NFL STIFFS...And I'm sure Holmgren/Heckert/Mangini/Ryan all see this as the single biggest problem on this D...
Last year they saw it as the Secondary...Both Safety and Corner...And addressed it pretty hard...
We're gonna be sitting with a pick between 4 and 10...Most likely 6-8...At that point in this draft there will be several pretty solid players available...ALL of which will address and upgrade a position...A NEED position at that...
Amukamara and Peterson///CB's (We may not sign Wright)
Green and Jones WR
Dareus DE
Quinn OLB
We MUST solidify the DE spots on this D in order to allow the pressure to be there...
Go Browns!!!
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Amukamara and Peterson///CB's (We may not sign Wright)
Green and Jones WR
Dareus DE
Quinn OLB
We MUST solidify the DE spots on this D in order to allow the pressure to be there...
This team still has too many holes to fill..every unit needs a upgrade badly.
It almost begs BPA with every pick..but it will again be BPA for the Browns.
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Legend
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Legend
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We MUST solidify the DE spots on this D in order to allow the pressure to be there...
I'm with this... our LB's aren't the greatest, but they are decent and can help win games.
To all those wanting a pass rushing OLB over a d-lineman.. I must say this..
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
ie Wimbley vs. Ngata...
If Fairley is there when we pick, which I doubt, I would pick him over Julio Jones if AJ Green is not available, and hope that a top WR falls to the 2nd.. Our dline must get better..
As a matter of fact.. if Heckert can lure in a FA WR, we could snag Fairley in the 1st, and Jared Crick in the 2nd... Talk about fixing your problem quick.
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Where do you think OT Gabe Carimi is going to fall to....He would look stupendous next to Porkchop.....Can't see using our #1 but if he fell to the 2nd round(very doubtful) or if we got back into the first....or if we traded down....having the Wisconsin bookends and force feeding opponents a diet of Hillis and Hardesty could be very interesting(with the assumption that Hardesty can stay healthy of course)
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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yea.. he's not falling to the 2nd, but if he did.. OMG!!
1st round talent for sure.
I don't wanna draft a RT though w/ a high pick.. I'm thinking Auburn's Lee Zeimba around the 4th-6th round.. This guy has a ton of experience and can run block like a pro.
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Legend
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Posts: 13,842 |
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4. Is Mangini too stubborn to make the right decisions in a timely manner regarding "his guys" when they just aren't performing (Daboll, Delhomme, Wright, etc.)
Holmgren did the unthinkable last year when he not only retained Mangini, but allowed Mangini to retain his entire coaching staff, if he wished.
If Mangini is again retained, but is forced to give up some of the coaching staff he hired, how is he going to react?
Question...how is Mangini going take it if his choice for OC and maybe some of the offensive coaching staff are replaced by Holmgren?
Slowly, Mangini's power within the franchise is being reduced as Holmgren and staff make what they see as "necessary moves".
I wonder if there is a point where Mangini is no longer happy with being told how the franchise is going to be run and who will be hired and fired?
Holmgren's expertise is on the offensive side and Mangini's expertise is on the defensive side...would Mangini be willing to give up control over the offense and share control of the defense with Rob Ryan?
I wonder if there is a point where Mangini sees himself as a "figure head" and no longer the head coach he envisioned when he took the job?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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if Gini can get this team to win games, all that won't be a factor.
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Mangini was retained (last year) and given free rein to keep his entire staff for one main reason.
Holmgren was giving him enough rope to either hang himself or turn it into some kind of golden lasso to reel in enough wins to keep his job.
Realistically, which do you think he's done? Barring some kind of monumental butt whoopin' of Pittsburgh by the Browns on Sunday I think you know the answer.
MH is no spring chicken. He doesn't have time to wait for some mythical 3-5 year plan to develop a winning team. Frankly, neither do I.
The fact that he (Holmgren) used to be a coach is the only thing that may save Mangini. If I was a betting man (and I am) I wouldn't put a whole lot of money on Eric Mangini being a HC anywhere next year. (Caveat: If MH really thinks there will be no season next year he may not fire EM just because that may save the team money during a "lost" season).
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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It's early but I reading he is sliding a bit.I want to see him in the Bowl game and see if he's got enough power to play RT.
Depending on how he does in the allstar games he could rise or fall.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
If our defense had a pass rush, and if we had legitimate receiving targets, I have no doubt at all that we'd be there.
Purp...What's the difference in having a Pass Rush when teams carve right thru this Front 7 at will???
Everyone wants the "Glorified" OLB the likes of Harrison...That's fine and good...We still won't be able to get pressure the way we want until the FRONT THREE are solidified...We have got to start right there...
We have a NT in Rubin...But outside of him we have a bunch of NFL STIFFS...And I'm sure Holmgren/Heckert/Mangini/Ryan all see this as the single biggest problem on this D...
Last year they saw it as the Secondary...Both Safety and Corner...And addressed it pretty hard...
We're gonna be sitting with a pick between 4 and 10...Most likely 6-8...At that point in this draft there will be several pretty solid players available...ALL of which will address and upgrade a position...A NEED position at that...
Amukamara and Peterson///CB's (We may not sign Wright)
Green and Jones WR
Dareus DE
Quinn OLB
We MUST solidify the DE spots on this D in order to allow the pressure to be there...
There is no difference, they go hand-in-hand. I'm on record many times over saying that I'd be perfectly content taking an ILB in the 1st. If the biggest bang for the buck for the Front 7 comes in the form of a DE, then so be it.... the point is, that "having a pass rush" isn't just having one guy that has a move or two to get to the QB; it is a matter of having a Front 7 that won't give up quick-hitters on slants and drags all day long, a Front 7 that will keep the QB holding that ball that extra 1.5 seconds for that OLB to get to him.
While I think our OLB's need help, I think it is MOSTLY in the form of covering TE's... but a speedier ILB could fill that role just as well (Dont'a Hightower!) while being a thumper inside presence.
But, yes, without a DLine to absorb their OLine, none of it matters.... and we need TWO new starters at DE, and not developmental types.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Did DQ do any better at covering the TE? Last year it just seemed like everybody was open so I didn't notice much. Just thinking that IF so, and IF we keep him, might help fill one hole. He at least had some speed.
The DL has seemed to be the most over-matched unit. Big holes up front, not much pressure. The loss of Fujita seemed to really hurt the run D, we need a better backup. One really good DL and a WR. RT and RB. Then a ILB, OLB, a LG, a Corner, Safety, another WR and a backup QB and we're all set. Oh, yea, probably a kicker, too. Maybe a kickoff specialist. A second DL should be higher on the list. More linebackers, too. A backup for JT. That's the ticket.
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