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Is this your new shtick?
Yes, as well as calling the masses "Cleveland Fan" or "Steeler Fan" or whatever team you root for.
Apparently, he stole it from some TV/radio guy in Cleveland.
It's pretty annoying, but he knows he's being annoying and probably chuckling behind his keyboard. Either that or he doesn't quite possess the maturity one would hope from a young to mid-20 something year old. But then a lot of people have felt that way about Ammo on this board for a long time.
Actually it originated from Jim Rome.
I'm not being obnoxious. I've seen the light: Vers was right this whole time...and it's to the point where it's getting ridiculous with our lack of continuity.
And it especially bugged me how from DAY ONE many fans and media were calling for Mangini's head....and it REALLY bugged me this year because we've seen great progress even though it hasn't shown up in the win column.
(for the record, today is indefensible, but I imagine the players knew Mangini's goose was cooked for weeks now and finally gave up today)
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I'd like to hear what "Great Progress" we made.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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IMHO, this would be the easiest (and possibly smartest) choice.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Nah I have no personal ties to Eric. If we fire him so be it. I never doubted that Holmgren wanted to bring in one of "his" guys from the get go (which is why I hated the Holmgren hire but that's another thread). It appears now he'll have his chance.
But it matters not. We're going to stink next year anyway. We have to have SOMETHING to discuss around here. Might as well be the next schmuck who we all decide stinks and is clueless (just like the 4 guys in a row previously). Woohoo for it's time to fire *insert coach name here* threads! Can't wait for next September.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Legend
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I'd like to hear what "Great Progress" we made.
Well maybe not "great"... but we have more discipline, take fewer stupid penalties and at least have some semblance of a QB with a future.
The 2010 Browns team was better than the 2009 version IMO.
5-11 to 5-11 isn't great progress though, is it? 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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(for the record, today is indefensible, but I imagine the players knew Mangini's goose was cooked for weeks now and finally gave up today)
They gave up 2 weeks ago against the Bengals, getting pushed all over the field by a line that has noone outside of Witworth, giving up 200 yards rushing.
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Other than those improvements this team isn't that much better than the Palmer era, butch era or romeo era. We're grasping at straws if you ask me.
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I'd like to hear what "Great Progress" we made.
Well maybe not "great"... but we have more discipline, take fewer stupid penalties and at least have some semblance of a QB with a future.
The 2010 Browns team was better than the 2009 version IMO.
5-11 to 5-11 isn't great progress though, is it?
Actually, we have more penalties this year than we had in 09.
And the QB can largely be attributed to the drafting of H&H
you had a good run Hank.
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I disagree. When our offensive line is healthy, it is leaps and bounds better than most of the lines we have had in the past. Our inability to form a cohesive and healthy line since our return in '99 has been our second biggest downfall next to the coaching carousel.
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ive been trying to avoid all this talk of fire mangini and hire blank...
but...ill dive in here.
For the record...I like what Mangini is building and think he should be given the chance to see if through. Crennel never seemed to have a plan, he seemed to be happy with just going with status quo and make it happen...and it did and it didnt...which i think is what going with it does.
Mangini seems to have a plan, and 2 years isnt enough to see it through...i think he should be given another year...shoot if Rich Rod can get 4 in michigan...mangini can get 3 here id hope. in fact crennel got 5. I think mangini has us in the right direction...
THAT BEING SAID...if he gets the boot...heres what i think...
These men should be interviewed...
Brian Billick
Tom Coughlin (if he gets fired)
Leslie Frazier
Perry Fewell (mark me in his corner as the most coveted coach for me)
Mike Mularkey...not my favorite idea, but hes been around the block once
Jim Haslett...good in the UFL, Aaron Brooks brought down his ship the first time through
Morningweig...did he learn from kicking off in OT...god really? he sucked
Singletary...did he learn?
McDaniels...what did he learn? i dont want him hired but he should be questioned
Wade Phillips...i want him as DC. period
Norv Turner...he's most likely going to be axed
Russ Grimm...the man has been an Associate HC forever
Gregg Williams (my 2nd choice behind Fewell)
I think that Fewell will be a great head coach, and Gregg Williams deserves a chance in a steady environment because he has never had one.
Thats what i think.
I think there are many guys that would be a step down...period
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Of "the four previous guys", which one should have been given more time?
I have gone back and forth on the Mangini bandwagon.
It's not as if we "gave up too early" on a guy who went on to have great success elsewhere. That includes coaches AND players.
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1st String
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Some of us with any concern at the Mangini hiring were so, because we felt we were, again, picking from the same tree (Belicheck) we had just eaten the spoiled fruit from (Crennel). I'm not defending that, just saying it was a concern.
I am not a Mangini fan but my problem with the hire is that Lerner hired him so quick. It was like he thought teams were lining up to hire him. I don't think Lerner took his time when Mangini was hired..
The talent pool of coaches seems to be better this go around. Whoever we hire, I hope they get it right..
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I wouldn't buy that. Our defense is nowhere near the caliber of the steelers or ravens. They still can't be counted on in key moments of the game. The scheme may be correct, but the players definitely don't matchup with the players on the 2 aforementioned defenses.
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Legend
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I'd like to hear what "Great Progress" we made.
Well maybe not "great"... but we have more discipline, take fewer stupid penalties and at least have some semblance of a QB with a future.
The 2010 Browns team was better than the 2009 version IMO.
5-11 to 5-11 isn't great progress though, is it?
Actually, we have more penalties this year than we had in 09.
And the QB can largely be attributed to the drafting of H&H
I said stupid penalties. We haven't had the consistent false starts, illegal formations and other braincramps like we did under RAC.
gmstrong -----------------
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I think that's all any of us really want. Even if that means Mangini is retained, we all want it to work.
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that is true. But at the same time you could say palmer's and butch's receivers were better. I believe we had 2 or 3 receivers to reach 1,000 yards in a season. The end result is still the same: 3-5 wins per season.
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Think that's kinda getting pick but...okay.
Either way, I don't see results on the field that show me without a shadow of a doubt that Mangini is the right coach.
You can point to the NO or the NE game if you want, and I'm not sure what happened those weeks, but it's quite apparent that the coaching staff decided to stop using that same scheme of taking chances and being creative. The norm was boring, uninspired football that resulted in losses to two of the worst teams in the NFL and almost another loss to CAR.
you had a good run Hank.
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said stupid penalties.
A good chunk of those were just Braylon and Kellen not knowing what they should be doing. In losing those stupid penalties we also lost a lot of catching ability. The two of them seemed to be good for at least one penalty a piece per game. And sometimes 2 or 3. Line penalties went down the day we got Thomas and Steinbach paired up.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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j/c
Whoever the coach is, as long as Tom Heckert continues to hit home runs in the draft and free agency we should be fine.
That's another reason I think it sucks that Mangini is getting the shaft. If you want better coaching, get better players. (except when players visibly quit on a coach a la Wade Phillips and Brad Childress)
Of course, the players quit on Mangini today...but like I said, they likely knew his goose was cooked for weeks now.
God I wish Junior would sell the team.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/02/11 11:10 PM.
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I just want to know when we're allowed to start making a list of available coaches to replace the next head coach? Do we have to wait until after training camp ....... or do we hold off until after a loss to start complaining?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Since the new coach wont be handpicking his GM hopefullly we wont have to suffer through a terrible offseason like 09 that sets the franchise back 3 years.
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I just want to know when we're allowed to start making a list of available coaches to replace the next head coach? Do we have to wait until after training camp ....... or do we hold off until after a loss to start complaining?
You have to give a coach at least 3 years unless the first two are an absolute disaster.
Phil Savage made a metric ton of mistakes, but he was right when he said "We expected to win about 10 games between first two seasons."
That's a reasonable expectation when you inherit a mess. And lo and behold: We hit that 10 game mark. We may have been able to have even more wins had Mangini's goose not been cooked after the Buffalo game.
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If you want better coaching, get better players
Wrong...if you want better coaching, get better coaches...if you want better players, get better players. Better players don't make a coach better, they just make them "look" better....still 2 different jobs
I've still to read 1 gameday argument in favor of Mangini that makes any sense...he instilled discipline? Cool, make him the highest paid discipline trainer around the league but not a HC...it's like drafting 2 2nd round WRs because they're good blockers, it's stupid.
I'd trade 10-20yds/game on penalties for 40-50yds combined on O+D ANY DAY...that's where you win 80% of the games not on ST or 2 more false start penalties/game...straighten your priorities, they're still brainwashed by Mangini hypnosis talk
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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There are those who would say 5-11 back-to-back's was an absolute disaster. I saw some promise, and noticed some attitudinal changes,....penalties were mentioned,....etc. We weren't mathematically eliminated until the Buffalo loss,...that was encouraging. But we lost (liberally) 6 games we should have won -- 4 (conservatively) that would have been a job-saving 9-7.
I still think he's still gonna get the axe, short of some major surprise. I still believe there was a line in the sand drawn before the season started, and EM has known long where he stood on that beach.
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If you want better coaching, get better players
Wrong...if you want better coaching, get better coaches...if you want better players, get better players. Better players don't make a coach better, they just make them "look" better....still 2 different jobs
I've still to read 1 gameday argument in favor of Mangini that makes any sense...he instilled discipline? Cool, make him the highest paid discipline trainer around the league but not a HC...it's like drafting 2 2nd round WRs because they're good blockers, it's stupid.
I'd trade 10-20yds/game on penalties for 40-50yds combined on O+D ANY DAY...that's where you win 80% of the games not on ST or 2 more false start penalties/game...straighten your priorities, they're still brainwashed by Mangini hypnosis talk
Good players make coaches look good. (except in the case of when they quit)
Bruce Arians wasn't good enough for Cleveland but he's won a ring as a coordinator in p*ttsburgh.
The difference? PLAYERS.
We're adding good players. It just takes TIME.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/02/11 11:28 PM.
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Please god don't let the browns hire Marty. If we hire marty we might as well just start another thread for our next coach, since marty will be getting fired in the next 1-2 years.
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just clicking...
Holmgren was brought in to fix the Browns.
He may have made a mistake by being a nice guy, allowing Mangini another year to prove himself as the Browns HC. It was Holmgren who said one year was not enough, so he gave Mangini another year which was another 5-11 ending on a downward spiral.
Holmgren did not hire Mangini and honestly, how could anyone hold it against Holmgren for firing Mangini? Only those who have become accustomed to the lowest of expectations could view Mangini as the solution, IMO.
If Holmgren is the man responsible for building the Browns, it is only fair that he gets his choice of who should be coaching the team.
I defer to the head coach who has been to 3 Super Bowls, winning one..who is 50 games over .500 in Ws and Ls.
I realize it's fun for some to pretend they are in Holmgren's shoes and that they are more experienced than Holmgren, with better judgement and football smarts.
That is the fantasy world some are living in, believing their qualifications are better than Holmgren's when it comes to building the Browns into a playoff caliber team.
Mangini will be fired tomorrow and I believe he earned it and has no one to blame but himself and he does not deserve another year.
Now Holmgren deserves the opportunity to do it his way...not your way, not my way...not the way of the fans and media types who continue to live in a fantasy world of make believe and what "ifs".
Whatever Mike decides is fine with me...GO BROWNS
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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I just want to know when we're allowed to start making a list of available coaches to replace the next head coach? Do we have to wait until after training camp ....... or do we hold off until after a loss to start complaining?
Ask Dgango,,He'll set the schedule 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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God I wish Junior would sell the team.
So we have one of the most brilliant football minds to ever grace the NF, running the Browns organization and you want Lerner to dump the team because that brilliant mind Mike Holmgren just might want to change the HC?
The guy makes bad decisions constantly. He doesn't understand momentum at all and thats why we see the halftime disasters and settling for a meaningless fieldgoal today when this team needed confidence. It is one of the reasons why we suck so bad in the 2nd half. He deflates the team's confidence by halftime.
One day he may be a great coach but right now he is somewhere between bad and mediocre.
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Nah, Junior did the right thing by hiring Holmgren, and now Holmgren gets to show why he is being paid the big bucks.
Hiring Mangini without a GM was a huge mistake.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I just want to know when we're allowed to start making a list of available coaches to replace the next head coach?
Whenever you want. No one is going to stop you.
If you want to go Django on the next coach, go ahead.
But don't act like the fans have anything to do with this, nor does it make no sense to fire him.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
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I just want to know when we're allowed to start making a list of available coaches to replace the next head coach?
Whenever you want. No one is going to stop you.
If you want to go Django on the next coach, go ahead.
But don't act like the fans have anything to do with this, nor does it make no sense to fire him.
The fans certainly have influenced Junior before.
John Collins vs. Phil Savage anyone?
Turns out Collins was right about Savage, yet Junior listened to the fans.
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Quote:
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I just want to know when we're allowed to start making a list of available coaches to replace the next head coach?
Whenever you want. No one is going to stop you.
If you want to go Django on the next coach, go ahead.
But don't act like the fans have anything to do with this, nor does it make no sense to fire him.
The fans certainly have influenced Junior before.
John Collins vs. Phil Savage anyone?
Turns out Collins was right about Savage, yet Junior listened to the fans.
First of all, you lose any right to call him junior when the person is at least twice your age.
Second, "Junior" isn't making the calls anymore.
you had a good run Hank.
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MH is making the calls, not jr. Second, lets see some proof that the fans are influencing MH decision.
It's kind of funny. All season long the pro-EM fans have been saying fans know nothing about what goes on inside the organization and cannot possibly be able to make an intelligent decision about the coach. Now, all of a sudden, the pro-EM fans are smarter than MH.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Speaking for myself, I have never once said that I know more about football than Holmgren ...... That doesn't mean that I don't have opinions and feelings about what the right "next" move is ... same as you do. Holmgren isn't infallable either. He can make mistakes. Let's all hope that he makes the right decision, whatever he decides. I did make a joking post about how long we have to wait until we start up the list for the next, next coach. Hopefully no one took that as a serious comment. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c.
Mornhinweg is the guy that chose to kick instead of receive the ball in OT like 9 years ago..isn't he? Please don't bring that joker here to be the HC. He might be a great OC but if he did something like that here, I think we'd all lose our minds.
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One and the same.
I just hope that whatever happens works out for us. It would be nice to have something work.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yes, that was a bonehead move.
Yes, he has earned another shot.
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I get the feeling whoever Holmgren brings in, the majority will disapprove.
I'm hoping it's a "Who the hell is this guy?" hire because those are more successful than "big names" more often than not.
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I think whoever Holmgren/Heckert bring in will be a good man for a job.
We all think that Holmgren and Heckert do a good job, right? If so we should trust that they know what they are doing. Holmgren coached with Mornhinweg. Heckert was the GM of a team that Mornhinweg coached on. They should know if the guy is qualified.
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