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I agree Pitt, Fraley should be our top option, however, I would even go as far as saying I would like to see Ohara here, for backup G/C position.
I want depth for our O-line, because they obviously can't stay healthy.
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But if it just CAN'T be done
I just dont get why we havent inked Hank yet? What are we waiting for? Give the man the money he deserves. Why is Phil letting this get down to the wire? Is somone else available that we dont know about? Do we have a wink wink, nod deal with another center? I really dont see Rob Smith as our answer and you cant gaurantee that a guy we want in the draft will be there.
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I am certainly not knocking Fraley, because he did come in a do a respectable job here ..... but he certainly wasn't an All Pro caliber player. He didn't somehow raise the performance of those around him. He was 1 piece on a below average line. He could be a complimentary piece of a good line ..... but I just don't see him as a building block type of player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I must agree with you from that aspect YTown. And Die Hard,I have no idea if Phil has "someone else lined up" or not. But I must say that Hank is nowhere even close to "the weak link in the chain". I feel all three of us can agree that BOTH G positions are in much greater need of repair at this time. Now we may not see eye to eye on Shafer,but IMO,I see him as a much greater weakness than Hank is by a good bit. And Tucer has been probably our brightest spot,although still not quite "north star" bright.  And honestly,after his illness and missing seven games last year,can our FO really bank on him to be consistant this season? I guess the bottom line of all of this is pretty basic. IMO,Hank is the most "dependable performer" we have at the present time and would be last on my list of needed upgrades on our OL. There is only so much cap space and and so many draft picks available to us. I would hate to see much if any of it used up on a position that we are not in "need of". And Diehard,the only "real glitch" I could see is that Hank may want a long term deal at above average,or even average starter money when Phil simply isn't comfortable about that situation long term. IMO,it's probably more the "length of the contact" than the money itself that may be preventing a deal. But that is 100% speculative on my part.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Only read the first 5-6 posts...just some things to remember here.
1. O'Hara played RG for us as a starter. Think of Fraley or Faine or Fowler playing RG then after having that mental picture compare the two.
2. O'Hara - where's Pete? Was probably the best OLman to get away. In typical Butch fashion he brought a Pocket Knife to a Sword Fight  he never started O'Hara at Center....just a couple of emergency starts for Wohl one season when he got injured.
This can only be good if he goes FA...more competition for Fraley. I would like Fraley back only cause he's familiar with most the OLmen here...lol  Shaffer???
and some of the kids. But O'Hara is everybit as good as Fraley...at least there are more options which could only be a benefit.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c
Am I wrong or did O'hara play LT for us for a good portion of a season? When Verba got hurt...
I think it was him. I remember feeling that we didn't drop off much at that position (if any at all).
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Legend
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sorry vette...never did O'Hara play LT for us...you're thinking of Stokes.
He played Center when Wohl got hurt...he played some LG when Verba moved to LT last 3 games. He played RG as a starter when we got Faine.
pretty sure thats how he went on our OL. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Thank you. Yes, it was Barry Stokes.
AL 29 76 14 R_K
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2. O'Hara - where's Pete? Was probably the best OLman to get away.
LOL....I have been right here....LOL
I just figured everyone would know what my answer would be...LOL
Between Fraley and O'Hara...I would probably lean towards O'Hara...Fraley does bring something to the table that we never got to see in O'Hara...and that is calling out the protection at the Line...
But that is only because we didn't get to see O'Hara play Center all that much. When he left I told Giants fans both on our board and theirs that he was one of those guys that would not get a lot of headlines but they would like him because of his blue collar style. He is a good Center and I would stand by that.
O'Hara might balk at coming here....not because of what happened when he was here...but because of the situation with Bentley. The situation is uncertain...
If Bentley will return...then we have a logjam at Center and O'Hara is a starting Center in this league...some say move Bentley to Guard....but you don't move the best Center in football to Guard just because you have a decent Center that is out of position at Guard.
If it is known that Bentley will not return...than I would love to pick up a Datish, or maybe even better a Satele, in the 3rd...sign O'Hara and we have a young kid that can play some Guard that will be ready to take over at Center in a few years.
One thing is for sure tho....I have seen several opinions say that he will be the best C in free agency this year...But then Shaffer was the best LT in free agency last year...lol...With that said..I think O'Hara is a better center then Shaffer is an LT (although one other note....Shafer has probably not reached his potential where O'Hara won't get much better than where he is right now). O'Hara will not be a ProBowl Center...but he is more than solid.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Someone that fell off the radar was Kyle Young from Fresno.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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There is only so much cap space
LOL $30+ million for this coming year. That's enough cap room for all of our draft picks and 5-7 top end premium free agents. (if there even are that many available this year)
Any team in the NFL is going to have trouble finding enough quality to spend $30 million on.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Really?
Steinback - 6mil + signing bonus (pro rated at least 3.5 more)
There's almost 10 mil for ONE player if he's signed
Clements"- 7 mil plus (pro rated signing bonus of around 4 mil)
Plus,if they're smart,they'll probably front load those contracts so those figures may be even higher. So right there is around 20 mil without even addressing any depth signings!
I'm not saying we'll sign both. But it would be easy to spend it, Easy. And of course we will be having to sign a C. But if we can get Fraley signed at a more reasonable price than O'Hara would cost,it would be a VERY wise move.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I actually agree with you Pit.....Fraley probably will be cheaper. But probably as much as you would think...I mean Fraley is looking for his last contract. And he knows that it would be temporary if it is here. Either Bentley comes back or we draft a replacement...Plus he helped us out of a jam last year and despite what anyone outside thinks...he and his agent will play that out as much as they can...Personally I would love to see either of the 2 back here....But in both cases I would hope that they were just holding a spot for Bentley to come back and be dominate in...(yes eo even in as much of a fan of O'Hara I am...LOL)
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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Quote:
Really?
Steinback - 6mil + signing bonus (pro rated at least 3.5 more)
There's almost 10 mil for ONE player if he's signed
Clements"- 7 mil plus (pro rated signing bonus of around 4 mil)
Plus,if they're smart,they'll probably front load those contracts so those figures may be even higher. So right there is around 20 mil without even addressing any depth signings!
I'm not saying we'll sign both. But it would be easy to spend it, Easy. And of course we will be having to sign a C. But if we can get Fraley signed at a more reasonable price than O'Hara would cost,it would be a VERY wise move.
Nah ..... Steinbach will probably bring a $10-12 million signing bonus over 5 or 6 years .... for $2-3 million/year as a pro-rated bonus. (divides evenly over the life of the contract) Then his 1st year salary will probably be somewhere around $1-2 million to make his 1st year money somewhere around $11-13 million ..... but his 1st year cap cost between $3-4 million.
Steve Hutchinson, probably the best Guard to hit Free Agency in the entirity of Free Agency, received a 7 year deal with $16 million in "guaranteed" money, $9 million as a signing bonus, and $1 million as a reporting bonus. His 1st year salary was around $500k. His cap cost was less than $4 million for the year.
If a team is smart, they would do as you propose and front load .... however, how many NFL teams have proven smart when it comes to free agency?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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From what I've heard O'hara has played much better since he was here. I'm not advocating signing him but if he becomes a free agent it will help us because Fraley won't be the only starting caliber center on the market.
He has, but I've watched several Giants games, and he hasn't had to face what he had to face here.
In our division, we play teams that attack our center. In the NFC East, teams attack the guards. The center is almost always swiveling, looking for a guy to support. That's why Faine had a much better year in New Orleans, and why O'Hara appeared to do well in NY. If he's brought back here, he'll get overpowered far more often than he did in recent years.
Now, here's one for the Homers, courtesy of PFW:
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After really struggling last season and losing his starting position to Nick Leckey, Cardinals C Alex Stepanovich might be on his way out, we hear.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Giants | O'Hara not pleased with ultimatum KFFL.com
Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:04:19 -0800
Updating a previous item, Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the New York Giants take-it-or-leave-it offer they made to C Shaun O'Hara did not sit will with him. O'Hara's agent has convinced him to wait a few days before making his decision.
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I can't wait for midnight friday..............my chops are licking! Savage has his hands full.................I have a feeling he is going to do good!  GO BROWNS!
![[Linked Image from i96.photobucket.com]](http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l197/thazen/brownsflag2.jpg) GO BROWNS!
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I believe it's MIDNIGHT Thursday or 00.01 AM Friday March 2nd.
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You would believe correct.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I have a feeling Savage will get it done................I have not lost faith in him..............not yet!
And what if Savage doesn't "get it done"? What if Fraley walks and we're left overpaying for someone less capable?
You'd think with the total implosion at C last year that Fraley would have been signed in week 10-12, but he wasn't.
This can only mean one of two things:
A) Fraley doesn't want to be here for any reasonable money period
B) Savage is screwing around with our MOST VALUABLE FREE AGENT and risking starting out 07 with the same gaping hole at C as 06.
When does Phil lose his credibility?
I'd take option B.
Hopefully they will work it out. Ny giants are said to be signing O'hara something like 6.5 up front............
Hopefully we'll hear something today.
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Great  Let's just hope this thing gets done. We need to resign him.
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Let us know once he is signed!
#gmstrong
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even if its not here??? We hope it is.......... but ya never know!
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I wanna know where ever he lands. He came here into a difficult situation and played his tail off for us. I know he is not the best center in the league but he works as hard as any of them. We have had our share of lazy players and I'm glad we got to see one with a good work ethic. Hopefully he comes back and rubs of on some of these others.
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Quote:
You'd think with the total implosion at C last year that Fraley would have been signed in week 10-12, but he wasn't.
This can only mean one of two things:
A) Fraley doesn't want to be here for any reasonable money period
B) Savage is screwing around with our MOST VALUABLE FREE AGENT and risking starting out 07 with the same gaping hole at C as 06.
When does Phil lose his credibility?
I think the fact that no deal has been announced and FA begins in less than 48 hours is a telltale sign that Fraley will not be back. I see 2 possibilities...
1) Fraley is asking for too much. PS has what he believes to be a 'reasonable' offer on the table. Hank will test the waters. If other teams are offering a great deal more... then, Fraley signs elsewhere. If the Browns offer turns out to be 'reasonable', then Fraley may resign with the Browns.
2) PS knows something that none of us do. PS has someone else targeted that he believes would serve as an upgrade. PS has not made Fraley a serious offer because there is someone else on the radar.
When will Phil lose credibility? If he allows the C position to get weaker and not stronger.
Phil said in one of the senior bowl articles that the Browns are looking closely at C/Gs. I will not be surprised at all for the Browns to get a C in this draft.
Last year, leading into FA the two names I remember hearing the most in connection with the Browns were LaVar Arrington and David Givens. ALOT of folks on the board were convinced we were going to shower Arrington with millions upon millions. Heck, places like ESPN reported as much. Virtually no one mentioned Bentley as a potenial Brown.
It turned out, all of that was a smoke screen.
Really, NONE of us know what Phil is planning. But, I imagine there will be a press conference around 4pm on Friday to announce 5 new "singee"s...
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just curious, what do you guys think is "reasonable money"
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My two cents (my opinion may be over-priced)... LINK
Jeff Hartings was a ten year vet, two-time pro-bowler for the Steelers and helped them win SB40. He was asked to restructure his deal in 2006... and was scheduled to make 3.6 million in 2007. With all of that in mind...
I would project Phil to offer a 2 year deal worth somewhere between 5 and 8 million.
So... neighborhood of... a base of 2mill in year one and 2.5mill (+1mill roster bonus) in year two with a 1 or 2 million dollar signing bonus.
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Hi Danielle good to see you again. Is that the newest Fraley Olineman? To answer your question I think Hank needs to be well compensated and re-signed asap, I would say a 3-5 year contract for somewhere around 12-25 mil would be fair. Of course I'm no FO person or even any good at accounting so not sure how much my input is really worth. Anyway, good seeing ya back here on the board, and here's to Hank getting the pay he deserves and hoping it's with the Browns! 
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
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Hey Danielle...Long time no read
Guess you have been busy - Ok - Boy I presume in all the blue 
Way to go - good job there.
So When Hank signs tommorrow give us the good news
If for some reason it doesn't work out...best of luck!
O'Hara could be what we go after...similar to Shaffer after losing Shelton.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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My two cents ; I sure hope Hank sticks around ! .. I like his work ethic and leave it ALL on the Field play ...
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OP
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Pending a lst minute deal it looks like Ohara will be a FA. He is looking for 5 years 20 mil and 8 mil guaranteed.
The NYC paper is calling him the best center on the market if the Giants dont get it done.
Apparently the new GM is taking a stance and not backing down.
Joe Thomas #73
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Pending a lst minute deal it looks like Ohara will be a FA. He is looking for 5 years 20 mil and 8 mil guaranteed.
5 YEARS? Are you kidding me? I would assume he has 2 or 3 years left in the tank. If O'Hara is worth 5 years - 20mill then I hope Hank signs a 5 year - 30mill deal.
O'Hara is decent. But, wow... those numbers seem REALLY out of whack to me. Of course... 30+mill for Shaffer is still mind blowing.
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Im curious to see how this matches up to Hanks contract?
Giants | O'Hara will stay
Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:04:57 -0800
Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports the New York Giants have reached an agreement with C Shaun O'Hara. It is believed the contract is a five-year deal worth roughly $4 million per season.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ohara anyone?
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