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I wonder if we'll sign some good FAs. You know, like the ones our GM passed on this year?
We didn't go after the good FA WRs, even though we didn't have anything.
The more I think about this, the more it doesn't seem right.
With FO set up to support the HC and give him what he wants, to a degree of course, I'm betting Mangini lobbied hard for Robo and Mass, (his own 2nd round picks), insuring H & H that they are ready to break out. After all, he's the one who sees them every day.
That's just my guess since we've all seen them play and I'd believe H & H, especially Heckert, would know better but in the spirit of supporting the HC they went with what they had. It's my guess also because it doesn't seem right that they didn't do anything to improve the receiving corp. That had to be an influence from somewhere. EM I'm guessing.
I'm sure if he offered Boldin he wouldn't of said "but I have robo! I will RULE!"
I'm sorry, I don't like how this went down. you don't have to agree with me on it. As I said before, I am tired of rebuilding.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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arch:
here's my theory on the names thing: we fans get our "info" from the media... the media gets almost nothing from guys like Holgren, so they look for any angle to use because they have a deadline. With the absence of true intel, they're left to the same speculatiion as we fans.
First angle: coaching tree. It's used so much, it's a cliche by now. Holmgren blew that one out of the water last year by keeping Mangini and the entire staff on.
After The Tree: connections. First connex: who's Holmy's agent? Bingo badda boom! The writer gets his byline in before the deadline, the stringers pick up on it from the wire, LaCanfora repeats it on NFLN, Schecter repeats it on e-spin... and now "the list" is made.
It's just how crap rolls nowadays. From my POV: Holmy may surprise folks AGAIN with his hire. I listened to his presser today, and I heard a guy who wants to cast a wide net, bring in as many qualified candidates as he can, then make the best choice for the team going ahead. He even said he wouldn't rule out contacting coaches from the college ranks. Maybe we'll see some nepotism, but I wouldn't be any more surprised if it's someone whose name hasn't even been mentioned yet.
Dang... the firing isn't evven 24 hours old, and some Dawgs are yappin' over borrowed trouble that hasn't even come to pass yet.
I'm on the record for having wanted Mangini for another year, and I wasn't shy about my reasons. That will not happen, and I'm going to be okay with it. In the absence of a coach, I know this next decidion is HUGE... so I'm listening very carefully to what Holmy says... and NOT taking my cues from national press guys who cover us in their spare time along with 31 other teams. Even the local guys don't know... so there's no point in me getting twisted into knots before the first candidate has even agreed to an interview.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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You don't have to agree with me Mourg, you can mock me, I don't care. I am tired of rebuilds, that's all. Tired of watching fill ins while the next genius GM builds the team that will get torn apart when the next great coach comes along.
The reason I don't allow any of that to bother me currently is because all the "genius GM's" who built this team since '99 have had no experience in the GM position. None of them.
No one wasted picks like Clark, and with Policy (President) instructing him to bring in 49'er FA's in record numbers in an effort to make up for the mess he left them in that was a recipe for disaster.
Butch was his own GM with no prior experience and he brought his lacky Garica, (not the QB), with him and together they ignored the scouts, drafted players Butch wanted in college but didn't get and made a mess of FA save a few good players. We also lacked a team President as Butch answered directly to the owner.
Savage was not only a GM with no prior experience who consistently traded future drafts, but he also schemed and planned behind RAC's back and was the opposite of our current FO who is committed to supporting the head coach. With the ouster of Collins that left Lerner to be team President once more.
On to the EM/Koc experiment. Again, no football people governing these two and a greater mess has never been seen in a FO. Well, actually there was no FO. There was these two and Lerner still in the role of team President with no football knowledge what so ever.
So now, at last, we have a team President who is a football man, a former coach, with three super bowl appearances, a super bowl win and three HOF quarterbacks he personally tutored.
We have a GM with prior GM experience from a highly successful team with a super bowl appearance and is also a football man. And the two of them are in a quest to find a head coach.
Things are much different today than they ever have been. We can no longer concern ourselves with nor compare this FO as the same as any of those that came before them. We finally have a truly professional NFL football hierarchy in place. We've not had this since our return. We've had wannabes, power hungry, back stabbing, non-experienced know-nothings up to this point.
Should we trust Holmgren & Co. to pick our next Head Coach? Well, if we can't trust this group to do a good job of it we can't trust anybody.
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We'll see dub, we'll see. I hope for the sake of the fans it does.
I won't gloat if it doesn't, I won't be happy. I'll feel the same as I do now.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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homer im with you here...
sitting thinking...i really hope this does work because im tired of things not working. weve done so much rebuilding lately...its just silly...we went with romeo but romeo went along with everything...so everything around him was a mess...butch controlled everything and that was a mess...
we finally have a solid structure, and the solid structure says that the solid bottom isnt stable or good enough...so
i feel like we're lifting up every part of a house to rebuild the foundation. not an easy job. and moreso i feel for mangini...he built a solid base in NY only to be ousted too soon to see the fruits of his labor...and come cleveland the EXACT same thing happened, but one year sooner.
Someone above didnt believe in his rebuild regardless of the solidatrity of the players and regardless of the product on the field.
yea yea...we were 3-9 this year in games decided by 10 or less...last year it was something like 1-3...in the previous years it was something like 1-3, or 1-4 or 0-2...games decided by less than 10...the more of those you have the more competitive you are.
we played 12 games within 10 points...and 2 of those over 10 points games were victories over teams playing in the playoffs with 11 or more wins...
i am just confused as to how we could not be seen as "going in the right direction" I see this as holmgren not liking the style that his coach used...and regardless of anything else he decided to make a change...he preached patience, understanding and building...and then made a move backing out on those.
Put yourself in EMs shoes...what do you see...
i see exactly what Eric said in his going away presser.
this team has a lot of great things in place that will lead them to great things in the future...its just too bad that well never see what those great things are...sure well see things...but going forward, who knows if theyll be great or awful...whatever plan we just had...we scrapped for a new one, and that really bothers me. i see holmgren hiring a holmgren guy for good or bad...
hes no parcells...parcells knew what it took...holmgren is affable, and a winner as a coach...and as far as im concerned, suspect otherwise. he had done well to this point...but this will turn out to be a black spot on his record unless he makes a very very special hire at head coach
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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It's hard for me to know how I'll feel as I don't even really know how to feel right now. This season has been as awful as the last one save a couple of quality games in the middle which gave me hope that resulted in nothing.
I hate changing coaches. This is the first time in my life that I wanted to do it. I've stood behind, supported and fought, (from my keyboard, and with my friends, to no avail), to keep every coach we've ever had. For the most part I feel that's the right way.
But in this instance I feel we had a coach who'd never learn the intricacies of game day and I feel was responsible, if not directly for losses, then directly for not putting the players in the best situations to succeed either through demoralizing in-game decisions, failed player evaluations, (who plays-not who gets picked for the roster), or his philosophy of how the game is to be played to win.
Right now I'm numb. Perhaps there will be some good news on the horizon.
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furthermore...
EVERY one of his players backed him and wanted him back...they wanted him around to see what was going through.
by firing him...they see that this is a business. its about making money...its about making people happy...its about making positive publicity. its easy to fire mangini...
Ive spoken with so many people in sports...
for instance...if youre a referee...you could ref a hostile game with many many problems and you make GOOD calls to prevent things from getting awful...and you look like a jerk. and after the game everyone thinks...that guy is a jerk. but you ref a great game where everyone plays hard and plays clean and plays well and no one complains.
you play an exciting high scoring game...as a coach you take no blame because youre opponent played a good game and it was fun to watch
you coach a game where it comes to the wire and someone makes an amazing play...you take no heat...
but if youre a coach and you cant close a game because of some reason...whatever it is...you stink.
if you try to build something that takes time to set in...you get the brunt because it takes too long and theres no success....
Holmgren completely ignored the New York Jets...and if were successful going forward without much turnover...he will be ignoring the foundation mangini put in place.
This firing is a travesty...what happens going forward may be great. but the firing is an error, through and through. and when a president makes an error, its hard to have faith in him making a great decision in the future. sure he could fall into something because a foundation is set...but...where does the credit go?
i dont like this call
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I think you have it backwards.
Mangini wasn't the foundation, Holmgren is.
you had a good run Hank.
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Put yourself in EMs shoes...what do you see...
I put myself in EM's shoes, then I looked in the mirror and I saw a guy who could rebuild an entire automobile but could never tune it up so it will always run like crap and break down at the most discouraging moments.
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but holmgren never coached these guys...he didnt get them ready for any games, he didnt instill any discipline, he didnt instill anything in the players...he just helped...helped (not actually did) acquire guys on our roster.
mangini built the foundation. guys like Sheldon Brown wouldnt have come here without holmgren sure...but he would have gone to bat for mangini like he did towards the end of the year.
its amazing...we say that mangini couldnt get it done...but there have been like 8 players that have come out and said we need to get it done....coaches can only go so far and then its on the players...veteran guys like cribbs, brown, joe thomas have said so...colt mccoy has said so...fujita said so.
alot of guys on this roster said that he has done a great job...and to say that thats pr rhetoric isnt true because you only have to look as far as minny and tenn to see how it can go the other way...
this was a program being built cut short...
and ddub...we say that mangini is a guy that can build the car but cant get it to run efficiently and smoothly...
what evidence do you have?
he had 3 years in NY in which he produced 2 winning seasons, then had his foundation ripped from him with a firing...then had 2 years here where he established something...a tough team that isnt going to go down ever...that will fight til the end...which we havent had since butch davis. crennels guys never fought to the end...davis got his guys to play well...and hes gotten the most out of any players since our return, he just acquired bums...
EM has established 2 foundations for 2 franchises...and both franchises will reap the benefits of his work...while he will largely be considered the guy who cant get over the hump...
patience just doesnt happen here in cleveland...
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Just a quick question
now that Holmgren has decided on Mangini I want to throw at a name no one is talking about
how about Brian Billick?
He is a proven coach, he used to coach the Ravens, he knows what it takes to win the AFC North, and he would most likely have no problem working with Holmgren and Heckert...Billick wouldn't want full control...he didn't have that in Baltimore with Ozzie.
Sure there was the Kyle Boller thing, but i think Ozzie deserves some of the blame there as well...Ozzie fired off a 1st rder on Boller.
I think Billick is a great coach and would be more then happy to let Holmgren and Heckert run the show and him just coach....
I really think Brian Billick would identify well with this city...the guy personifies hard nosed footbal like no other coach we have had here since Marty Schotenheimer
I think Brian Billick would be a great hire for us...and i do believe he is more of an offensive oreinted guy.....even though his Raven's teams had great Defense, and he did win a ring.
Its just another good name to throw out there...I have always thought Brian Billick to be a very good coach...
Minnesota Vikings assistants has produced some good coaches over the years...Tomlin and Billick both got Super Bowls coming from the Vikings to their AFC North teams...
thoughts?
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and ddub...we say that mangini is a guy that can build the car but cant get it to run efficiently and smoothly...
what evidence do you have?
The evidence I have is his bone-headed in-game decisions of which I really don't wish to go into detail again here. I have already done that elsewhere in recent threads.
But mismanaging the clock horribly and multiple times, and his propensity to have his team playing down to the level of bad teams and sending messages of a lack of confidence to his players in his down and distance calls in crucial, game changing situations are just the tip of the ice burg.
Add to that his reasoning for kicking a field goal instead of trying for a TD on a 4th and 2 on the first drive of the game with over 55 minutes left to play as, "I felt it was going to be a close game and wanted to get the 3 points" (perhaps slightly paraphrased). That is a playing to not lose mentality instead of a playing to win mentality. Think about it: the game is less than 5 minutes old and he's already anticipating a close game vs. a 2-win team! That's worse than a playing to not lose mentality. That's a loser mentality. It's not that he kicked the field goal. That's his option as head coach. It's his reasoning for it that is depressing and defeating.
I could write ten such paragraphs on ten such loser mentality and/or inconsistent philosophy and/or outsmarting himself and/or playing timid, afraid to make a mistake kind of football instead of playing to win.
And I'm not suggesting he take bad risks, (like the onside kick, which is only ever 50/50 at best, vs. the Rats knowing that if it failed the Rats would have 40 yards or less to score and he does this AFTER letting the clock run down forcing a field goal attempt on 3rd down because ran us out of time for another offensive play because he was afraid to kick-off to them giving them 30 seconds to score from 60-80 yards out at the end of the half.
When we had the ball with an opportunity to score the biggest thing on his mind was stopping them from scoring! What?!?! I can understand not wanting to leave a lot of time on the clock. But to the degree that you deprive your own team an opportunity to score. That's playing afraid to lose instead of playing to win.
I mean C'mon Man! Scared to death to take a small risk at the end of the first half only to turn around and take a major risk to start the second one?! That's not even consistent philosophy and it may be classified as once again outsmarting himself on both counts.
If Holmgren, or someone else, were to educate him away from bone-headed mistakes I'm afraid they'd have to be in it for the l-o-n-g haul.
Holmgren said it all when he said, “Although we have made improvements this season, my responsibility is to ensure that we establish a program that will allow this team to compete at a championship level."
That statement says loud and clear that he didn't believe Mangini's program had any chance to do that. And in my eyes Mangini's program/philosophy and his horrible in-game decisions is what bought him his fate.
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thoughts?
As much as I can't stand Billick's personality he is a good coach. I wonder why he's not coaching now and seems not to have been interviewed for a job since he lost his. Perhaps he's decided to take some time off.
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I am looking forward to the new "Time to fire ________ thread" once we hire our new coach. It won't take long. The fans and media around here keep asking for coaching changes when the real problem has been horrible drafts. For all of you who wanted Mike Brown fired from the Cavs, did you really think a new coach could take a bunch of losers to the playoffs? Should they fire Scott? Lol. For those of you who thought Eric Wedge should be fired, did you really think a new coach would bring the Indians to greatness? Should they fire Acta? I've even heard some OSU fans say that Tressel should be fired because he can't win the big game or beat SEC teams. Really? Is there a magical coach out there that can do all of these things you want? The Browns have had one good draft since 1999 and we expected Mangini to coach the team to more than 5 wins with the schedule we played? I don't think Sean Payton would have had more than 5 wins. Does anybody here honestly think if we had Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh coaching this group we would have more than 5 wins?? 
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Nice post about Mangini, I agree. I've always felt that he was strong at player development but a pretty weak gameday coach.
Re: Holmgren's quote, his point comes across clearly but diplomatically. No complaints here.
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Since everyone is asking you questions ddub, let me pose one. When MH came in here last year our roster was a disaster. Not that we are thick with talent now, but we do have a much better nucleous to build on. Now I think you may find a "good" coaching candidate that will be able to see how improved our overall nucleaus is and how much MH and TH helped in the talent department and how things could truely turn around here in very short order. My question to you, and anyone else who keeps throwing out the idea of how Gini should have been fired last year.............. What "GOOD" HC candidate would have come in here last year given our roster and the fact MH had just stuck his foot in the door, who would have even been willing to come here that would have been so much better than Gini?I think that's the whole point here. Gini had won 4 in a row to end the season with very little talent. Of the candidates MH wanted, we have no idea as to who, if any of them were available, MH needed to really look at this team to figure out what he had and more so didn't have and the odds of landing someone better than Gini at that point in time simply weren't good. So I saw no harm in giving him another year just to get our bearings and figure out which direction we were headed. I don't see it as a wasted year. I saw it as a necassary one. I just hope our roster is good enough and TH & MH are convincing enough to land a GOOD HC candidate that can take us all the way even now given our rosters limitations or guess what? We'll be doing this all over in a couple of years. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think that the Browns fans "impressions" of coaches strengths and weaknessess are over the top.
Holmgren has a better understanding of coaches that have been on his staff, or that he has been associated with than we would ever have.
It it is a Mooch, Gruden, Morhnigweg or anyone that he has worked with, I will be fine with that. You know people better when you work with them.
It is is someone else, outside the Walsh/WCO tree, then I may be more concerned.
That's no kidding...
U guys all put waaaaay too much stock in a HC's RECORD...
Your FRONT OFFICE make-up and who runs the draft and FA is the most important part of any teams success...WE HAVE THAT...
Your HC is nothing more than a direct responsible reflection of the TALENT placed on said team...And the OC and DC running the show on gameday...Solid FO...Solid Coordinators makes for LIKELY SUCCESS...
HC's are nuttin more than a Face and a Gameday Manager...Without solid Coordinators and TALENT they gonna have P-Poor records...
What's the consensus biggest whine's about Mangini???...
In-Game Decisions
Adjustments
Clock Management
So u go out and FIND someone who's proven good at those 3 things...And his coaching RECORD alone won't dictate how good or bad said individual is concerning those 3 things...
All these names flying around aren't any better than anyone else...
What's Fisher's record over the years???
Hell...If we want a winning record HC then the only ones out there are:
Holmgren
Harbaugh (Balt)
Reid
Coughlin
Tomlin
Dungy
Go Browns!!!
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Lets see..I guess U want Lerner to pick the coach??
Been there ,done that THATS WHY GINI was here..GMAB..let the man do his job..thats why he's president..thats his job now.
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j/c
Can we trust MH?
So far, he hasn't proven that we can.
In a league that has that has a "win now" mentality ( a mentality that MH seems to follow) we have already lost one valuable year. MH's first black eye as the football czar in Cleveland.
I would have alot more respect for MH if he would've just fired EM last year and brought in "his guy", but he didn't, so therefore EM WAS "his guy".
Mike comes across as the "know it all" guru who had that special connection to the inner workings of a HC because, of course, he was and has been an outstanding one himself. SO, what does he do? He cans "his guy" before a core of players and a legitimate O philosophy is ever established.
WTF?? Does he really know what he's doing? That's a pretty wishy washy start IMO.
If Mike is going to bring in another young HC and allow him to be nurtured into something special, what does that say about year one for him?
I dunno folks, I want stability on this team just like everyone else,but what we've seen under Mike so far is anything but. I'm gonna be patient here and I'm not hating on MH either(i'm glad he's here)
I'll give him the time to prove his value unlike the time he gave his HC,but no one can deny that he's not off to a good start.
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a tough team that isnt going to go down ever...that will fight til the end...
Did you watch the Steelers game? EM team didn't even show up to play. If that's the kind of toughness you want, I think I'll pass.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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j/c
Can we trust MH?
So far, he hasn't proven that we can.
In a league that has that has a "win now" mentality ( a mentality that MH seems to follow) we have already lost one valuable year. MH's first black eye as the football czar in Cleveland.
I would have alot more respect for MH if he would've just fired EM last year and brought in "his guy", but he didn't, so therefore EM WAS "his guy".
Mike comes across as the "know it all" guru who had that special connection to the inner workings of a HC because, of course, he was and has been an outstanding one himself. SO, what does he do? He cans "his guy" before a core of players and a legitimate O philosophy is ever established.
WTF?? Does he really know what he's doing? That's a pretty wishy washy start IMO.
If Mike is going to bring in another young HC and allow him to be nurtured into something special, what does that say about year one for him?
I dunno folks, I want stability on this team just like everyone else,but what we've seen under Mike so far is anything but. I'm gonna be patient here and I'm not hating on MH either(i'm glad he's here)
I'll give him the time to prove his value unlike the time he gave his HC,but no one can deny that he's not off to a good start.
this!
agreed, I also am worried and concerned because Mike Holmgren is a rookie President..this man has never ran a franchise before...he made the jump from Head Coach to President.....its a huge jump.
Parcells had expereince running the FO in the later part with the Giants, the Pats, and the Cowboys before he ever went to Miami...Parcells had experience running the show prior to his hiring by the Dolphins.
Holmgren ran "part of the show" as GM in Seattle and sucked big time at it.
As for Heckert, he did not have final say in Philly Andy Reid did.
I hope Holmgren makes the right choice, but he is human and human error does come into the equation....what i worry about with Holmgren is he will limit himself by making sure the next guy we hire is a WCO guy him and Heckert are close with and is a Lamonte guy instead of hiring the best guy for the job.
the BEST overall coach out there right now for the Cleveland Browns looking at the whole resume is Brian Billick...this city would love the guy...and he is epitome of hard-nosed football...his personality fits perfect here to.
Brian Billick said and I quote after the 2000 Ravens beat the Titans in the AFC Playoffs
"When you go into the lion's den, you don't tippy-toe in. You carry a spear, you go in screaming like a banshee, You ask 'Where's the SOB! If you go in any other way, you're going to lose"- Brian Billick after 2000 Ravens vs Titans game
the above is the EXACT type of mentality this football team needs...say what you want but Billick coached teams go out to knock someones block off every Sunday win, lose, or draw.
looking at the overall resume, and watching Brian Billick coach in this division for many years and how physical his teams played and how fired up they are...right now Billick is the most qualified man for the job after Holmgren...yes Billick is better then guys like Gruden and Fox.
if your not going to take the sidelines yourself Holmgren...man up and hire a REAL AFC North winning coach...hire Brian Billick...the dude flat out knows how to get his teams to bring it every sunday and thats what we need.
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a tough team that isnt going to go down ever...that will fight til the end...
Did you watch the Steelers game? EM team didn't even show up to play. If that's the kind of toughness you want, I think I'll pass.
The players knew Mangini was done for a few weeks now. Makes it difficult to prepare and give it your full go.
Triv said it best the other day: Heckert is gonna make the new coach look like a genius.
What could Daboll do with Massaquoi and Robiskie as your receivers, an out of gas Peyton Hillis and a rookie QB? Let's not kid ourselves.
I give Mangini credit for trying to emulate the Steeler model: build an offense that'll knock your block off and a defense that blitzes the hell out of you.
But what's done is done. Holmgren better hire the right guy.
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Triv said it best the other day: Heckert is gonna make the new coach look like a genius.
Jesus, now you're quoting that overblown tub of lard!?!
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But what's done is done. Holmgren better hire the right guy.
Or what? You gonna take your ball home and have a hissy fit?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Condensed Calzone: 1. I'm pissed because he didn't fire Mangini last year. 2. He fired the coach too soon. He didn't have time to "grow" Do I have that right? 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I'd not be opposed to seeing B2 on the sidelines... and for the reasons you stated.
Wow.... talk about a new year/new leaf... I've agreed with Django and KOB in the first week.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I give Mangini credit for trying to emulate the Steeler model: build an offense that'll knock your block off and a defense that blitzes the hell out of you.
I really do believe that was the model... which was why I was OK with seeing him stay on for another year. Look- we didn't have the horses to pull that cart for a full 16 games, but I could see that persona being built.
I don't know if Holmy will continue that philosophy now that he's sent Mangini out the door, but one can't deny that the approach works in this division.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I give Mangini credit for trying to emulate the Steeler model: build an offense that'll knock your block off and a defense that blitzes the hell out of you.
I really do believe that was the model... which was why I was OK with seeing him stay on for another year. Look- we didn't have the horses to pull that cart for a full 16 games, but I could see that persona being built.
I don't know if Holmy will continue that philosophy now that he's sent Mangini out the door, but one can't deny that the approach works in this division.
Oh I think there's no doubt that the smashmouth model is now out the door.
If Holmgren was going to stay with the philosophy, there would really be no need to change coaches. He wants something closer to what he is comfortable with.
He gave it a shot, but just couldn't get comfortable with the defensive, play it close mindset. If he couldn't get comfortable with it with 1 coach, he's not going to suddenly embrace it with another.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Since everyone is asking you questions ddub, let me pose one.
Since you asked, my good man, I feel obliged to respond. 
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What "GOOD" HC candidate would have come in here last year given our roster and the fact MH had just stuck his foot in the door, who would have even been willing to come here that would have been so much better than Gini?
Maybe no one. And that's quite possibly one of the biggest reasons Mangini stuck. Maybe MH didn't really see any other option. I maintain, as I've said earlier...
1) MH was moving into a new role and he needed time to restructure the organization, hire and fire key key FO personnel, help prepare for the draft and hire a head coach. That's a lot on one guy's plate especially considering his new role is new to him
2) With Mangini having been dealt a bad card with the KOC/GM thing which forced on him more than he could handle, (and MH indicated it was not EM's fault whether it was nor not), along with EM winning out in '09 it was only fair in MH's eyes that EM should get another chance. He's said that no one should be given only one year.
Even though MH considered the winning-out to be an aberration, (he said as much when he said he didn't know how in the heck EM won out without throwing the ball at all - it doesn't happen in the NFL), to be fair to EM he should get a chance to work a season under a FO who is giving him full support allowing him to coach without all the other duties.
3) This was fair to EM and it avoided MH from looking like a nasty hatchet man coming in and axing a head coach after only one season. Especially one who just won-out indicating that the team may just have turned around. By being fair to EM he also set a precedence for any future coach that MH will be fair.
4) Add up all that with what you said in your question about who would have been willing to take this over, along with:
a) MH getting the time to set up his organization without having to go on a hurried coach hunt at the same time
b) buying himself time to evaluate the team for a season to see what it really needed
c) being fair to his head coach to see if the team had really turned the corner and that pretty much left EM as the default choice.
5) In the end EM showed that it was an aberration to have won-out last season the way he did as the "improvement" did not carry over to 2010.
Holmgren said a couple of things that pretty much summed up his major reason for firing Mangini:
1) It is his, Holmgren's, responsibility ..."to ensure that we establish a program that will allow this team to compete at a championship level", which says to me that he didn't feel Mangini's would do that.
2) When he said, "Unfortunately this business at times and even though it wasn’t the only factor, I want to win here. We want to win here in Cleveland and we did not win enough games this year", to me he was saying that there were more wins to be had but boneheaded mistakes made by the coach did not put the team in the best situation to succeed. In other words, my words, some of those close losess should have been wins if not for bad in-game decisions.
The reason that quote says that to me is because he emphatically stated earlier in the season that the win/loss record would not be the determining factor yet here he is stating now that we did not win enough games. I don't think he was going back on his earlier statement. I think he saw games we should have won... with the existing talent on the roster and that the talent was not the reason they were lost.
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I don't see it as a wasted year. I saw it as a necassary one. I just hope our roster is good enough and TH & MH are convincing enough to land a GOOD HC candidate that can take us all the way even now given our rosters limitations or guess what?
Well, I guess that's what I get for not reading your entire post before responding. Because you asked me a question that I'd already answered previously and came to the same conclusion that you have arrived at. What you have said is exactly what I said earlier and repeated above because I felt you came late to the party.
Next time I'll read first. 
#gmstrong
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well-formed response, ddub.
It spells out a lot of what might have been behind Holmy's presser responses. In other words, your arguments make sense.
If those were truly the reasons behind Mangini's ouster, I'm OK with Holmy's decision. For certain, the offseason landscape looks much more positive for change now than it did 12 months ago.
For my part, I hope your take is right.... because if it is, it means that H3 have a better chance to hire a HC (or coachES) from a better vantage point than last year provided.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Clem...im with you. I agree with KOB as well...
Brian Billick would be a great choice here. The guy knows the division, he knows how to win and he knows what it takes to be successful. He had issues when it came to findin the right QB...but he put a lot of eggs into the Kyle Boller basket and it dragged him down. Can you put taht on him?...idk./ Not real sure, but he deserves another shot.
Another guy...that i think would be a great hire here because of the hardnosed mentality would be the newly fired (not extended) Tom Cable...the guy epitomizes tough. His teams play tough football, he is a tough guy (ask randy henson) and he looks tough. Tom Cable to me says AFC North. ive thought that since i heard about him being hired and knocking out henson. its a knockdown drag out division, and right now...Billick and Cable look like two of the best choices.
I also would like to stick my hat in again for Gregg Williams (blitz master extraodinaire) and Perry Fewell (a year under Tom Coughlin after making the Bills look solid at the end of last year bodes well for me)...
If i were to create a "short" list like we keep hearing about...thats where im headed.
Billick, Cable, Williams, Fewell
and also...to ytown.
I dont think the smash mouth model should be quite considered out the door because there are a number of coaches that can run the smash mouth style but not play things close to the vest...honestly the aforementioned guys could all do that...billick especially.
The best way to do that...is to implement an offense based on the run...but has the ability to get the ball downfield in a hurry with the passing game...that includes deep balls, quick slants, TE seam routes, and getting WRs and RBs the ball in space (like screens and such plays...for that matter, how did we never run one of those for Cribbs ever? especially with good blocking WRs like MoMass?)
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Another guy...that i think would be a great hire here because of the hardnosed mentality would be the newly fired (not extended) Tom Cable...the guy epitomizes tough.
Lol! How many games into this season would Daboll have lasted with an unbroken nose? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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For the 3rd time,Russ Grimm.
I wanted Grimm when they hired Romeo,again when they fired Romeo.Now that Romeo's replacement has been fired,I still want Grimm.
Oh well,my worse fears will again be realized,they'll hire someone like that bald guy from Minny or Mourningwig.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Triv said it best the other day: Heckert is gonna make the new coach look like a genius.
Jesus, now you're quoting that overblown tub of lard!?!
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But what's done is done. Holmgren better hire the right guy.
Or what? You gonna take your ball home and have a hissy fit?
At least he gave him credit this time. In another thread he didn't. Maybe because you called him on it?
#gmstrong
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For the 3rd time,Russ Grimm.
I wanted Grimm when they hired Romeo,again when they fired Romeo.Now that Romeo's replacement has been fired,I still want Grimm.
Oh well,my worse fears will again be realized,they'll hire someone like that bald guy from Minny or Mourningwig.
There's a reason he's fallen out of the coaching talks around the entire league. He probably wasn't that qualified in the first place.
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Condensed Calzone:
1. I'm pissed because he didn't fire Mangini last year.
2. He fired the coach too soon. He didn't have time to "grow"
Do I have that right?
partially
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Pit's doing his ask the multitudes the million dollar question because I'm the one who said it was a waste to keep Gini around for another year..however I'm not the only one who feels that way.
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Pit's doing his ask the multitudes the million dollar question because I'm the one who said it was a waste to keep Gini around for another year..however I'm not the only one who feels that way.
Pits not the only one that feels as if gini should have gotten another year either.
Me, Purp, Peen and many others feel as if he needed one more year.. but, most of us also feel as if we trust Holmgren.. so if he wants to move on, so be it. (paraphrasing and not meant to put words in anyone elses mouth)
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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And? Proof is in the pudding bud..his decisons and coaching did not cut it.
He turned most off with his bad ingame decisions and use of personnel among other things.
All ya gotta do is listen to what Mike said..he was frustrated ..very frustrated.
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Give E.M. another year and the next year this time you guys will all say "We wasted another year".
Don't you see the sideline decisions were the same this year as last year.
AS many years as E.M. has been coaching you would think he would have learned why his HC was calling time outs. What the HC was doing in certain situations.
I know he was DC, but not a very good one in New England. Remember he was replaced/demoted on that job.
Is there a school for learning side line decisions? Maybe E.M. needs to attend it. That would be part of the PROCESS of him trying to be a better HC.
But like most people who left here he probably won't amount to much either.
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Thanks ddub. I just wanted to make sure that my thinking wasn't so far off base and you seem to be the voice of reason so it seems that my line of thinking isn't that far off base. Seems many feel one man can do it all in one year and nothing should ever go wrong. What sport have they been watching anyway?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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