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It took him 1 year longer than it should have but better late than never
I kept saying when Mike retained him it was a waste..a waste of a year.
But he probably knows that now.actually because this came so soon,Mike already had his mind made up.
Tacker...not a total waste.
Holmgren re-staffed the front office, brought in some of the best people in the NFL to fill some key front office positions.
Holmgren and Heckert then brought in some good free agents, which would never have happened if not for Holmgren being in charge of the franchise.
Then Heckert and Holmgren put together what might be the best draft since the Browns return in 99.
Holmgren added Gill Haskell to help out on offense, but Haskell was probably doing some evaluation of player personnel and coaches at the same time.
Also, let us not forget, Holmgren needed foot surgery when he took the job. If anyone has had any experience with foot problems that require surgery, it really does limit ones mobility and can be very painful. I believe Holmgren was in a cast for a few months and was riding around in a cart for much of training camp.
If Holmgren had any thoughts of coaching again, he likely realize that the foot surgery had to done ASAP. Now I'm not claiming Holmgren is going to take over the coaching duties, but if it was an option he wanted to consider, the foot had to fixed first.
So, it's not like progress has not been made. Holmgren had a year to evaluate the coaches and players while building the organization from the top down.
Mangini era just ended and now the Holmgren era begins...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Ever learn about what?
We fired a guy who will lucky to ever be a HC in the NFL again.
It's like people wanted consistency just for the sake of consistency, winning be damned.
People want concsistency because we have NEVER given it a chance, we all know good and well what shuffling the deck every couple years gets us.
As far as Mangini getting another HC job again,...in time he will. Running that bumb Belicheck outa Cleveland didn't end his carreer either.
We need a Browns slogan to start every new season....."Super Bowl or BUST."
You're right, you are smarter than Mike Holmgren at football.
Perhaps we should have hired you as President. That way we could go 5-11 every season.
The fact that the Browns did not win at least 6 games this year is pathetic.
you had a good run Hank.
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He has been taking steps toward his goal of a winning franchise in Cleveland.
Hire a bona fide GM - Check
Bring in Jake Delhomme as the starting QB - Check
Fire Mangini - Check
Pave the way to install self or toady as new HC - Check
At least he got one thing right. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
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He has been taking steps toward his goal of a winning franchise in Cleveland.
Hire a bona fide GM - Check
Bring in Jake Delhomme as the starting QB - Check
Fire Mangini - Check
Pave the way to install self or toady as new HC - Check
At least he got one thing right.
Well, two, except it took too long to fire Mangini.
Should have done it last year.
you had a good run Hank.
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JC too. Quote:
j/c
....same ole' Browns. 
The broken record which has become the Cleveland Browns franchise skips on.
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NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora reports that Holmgren and the Browns have interest in Jon Gruden, but lack some of the offensive personnel Gruden desires, according to league sources.
You're gonna see the bigger names coaches out there stear clear of this job as the opportunity for real success is not present. We'll have to roll the dice one more time hoping that some guy desperate for the opportunity to coach in the NFL pans out for us.
Will we ever learn?
Doubtfull.
Mangini did not get it done. I feel bad for the guy.
I think he was turning around alot of things that needed fixed pronto.
I agree he was not fielding NFL calibre football. Yet.
He was working on the other stuff. I think he was building a team.
I think he was slowly changing the culture.
Just not fast enough for everyone else.
Going to be the same story for anyone else that comes in here.
Gotta have some continuity.
I really hope we keep Ryan. I love the guy. He just belongs in Cleveland. All kidding aside.
Daboll ( sp? ) was a huge issue. Biggest IMO. And I hated him.
And I would have loved to keep Chud. He had his head scratchers too.
I get so tired of seeing people leave Cleveland and end up becoming stars with rings after they leave.
Who will adapt and overcome with all of this?
Questionable drafts.
No receivers to speak of. ( draft)
No standout linebackers. ( draft)
Sporadic DB play.
Too many injuries at key positions.
Gruden? He is about the only coach I would like to have.
Maybe a Gruden, Mariuchi ( sp? ) combo?
Who can fix all that in a season or two? That is all you get in this city, 1 or two years.. NOBODY CAN DO THAT>!
These are the reasons that really stood out to me why Mangini could not get over the hump.
Not just lamebrain playcalling and underachieving players.
Not saying he did not deserve it.
But I do not see anyone who can fix it with these expectations.
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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How long until fans are calling for the future coaches head?
I give him a year. I want be like Django and ride a coaches ars his entire tenure.
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I am looking for the Daboll and Ryan status as well. Ryan sure didn't impress me. The Walrus certainly gave them all the rope this season, but results are the bottom line. Most fans would agree they were given a shot to control their own destiny this season; obviously not good enough. EM did carry a bunch of dirty water for the organization, but wins are what matter. I wish EM well, and hope he catches on somewhere and does well,unless it is vs. the Browns, of course. This certainly is a hard one, but a learning opportunity nevertheless. Will be relieved to see Daboll go. The turnstile in Berea strikes again. get better!  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora reports that Holmgren and the Browns have interest in Jon Gruden, but lack some of the offensive personnel Gruden desires, according to league sources.
Yeah, cause Gruden can only look great while inheriting a team w/ a super solid foundation built by someone like, let's say Tony Dungy. I'm sorry but I've always thought this guy was a tad bit overrated. Everybody is SO won over by his fiery personality and that intense look in his eye. I say he's been VERY inconsistant as a coach.
While we're talking about candidates, I think everybody should be monitoring the whole situation in Tennessee. If Jeff Fisher goes, he'll have one of the shortest unemployment periods in history. I'd LOVE for Holmgren to scoop him up.
I won't bring up all the names everybody else has thrown out there, but will say I think we're going to be surprised at whoever gets the job. I hate the uncertainty, but can't help being really excited right now . . .
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I'd actually really like to bring back Chud. I think the guy had some skills and was victimized by DA being DA.
I too thought Chud had some things going for him. But- wasn't his a vertical O scheme? I'm pretty sure that if Daboll goes, H will install someone who runs a WCO.
That said, I'm not at all against a WCO plan. Heck, it worked for Paul Brown YEARS before Walsh made it "his" innovation. I also think that Colt could thrive in that system.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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He has been taking steps toward his goal of a winning franchise in Cleveland.
Hire a bona fide GM - Check
Bring in Jake Delhomme as the starting QB - Check
Fire Mangini - Check
Pave the way to install self or toady as new HC - Check
At least he got one thing right.
Well, two, except it took too long to fire Mangini.
Should have done it last year.
I think Holmgren had to keep Mangini so he could evaluate the team without a major change in coaching philosophy altering the effects, see what the personality of the team is, see how strong and how much talent the core has. Easier done when the players are familiar with the game plan and philosophy.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora reports that Holmgren and the Browns have interest in Jon Gruden, but lack some of the offensive personnel Gruden desires, according to league sources.
Yeah, cause Gruden can only look great while inheriting a team w/ a super solid foundation built by someone like, let's say Tony Dungy. I'm sorry but I've always thought this guy was a tad bit overrated. Everybody is SO won over by his fiery personality and that intense look in his eye. I say he's been VERY inconsistant as a coach.
While we're talking about candidates, I think everybody should be monitoring the whole situation in Tennessee. If Jeff Fisher goes, he'll have one of the shortest unemployment periods in history. I'd LOVE for Holmgren to scoop him up.
I won't bring up all the names everybody else has thrown out there, but will say I think we're going to be surprised at whoever gets the job. I hate the uncertainty, but can't help being really excited right now . . .
Hopefully we will not be underwhelmed.
And hopefully whomever comes in will be able to keep the "team first players" who do produce on gameday.
And know the difference. 
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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One thing. All those Re-Jets I had complained about early in the season are probably on their way out too. (GLEE) 
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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I like the sound of John Fox with Mike McCoy. Wouldn't mind Fox and McDaniels as OC either. I don't like the idea of gruden though. Chucky never struck me as a good coach, and he likes to hoard QB's too much. Not a good idea in this city.
If we are going to have another bullcrap changeover we may as well sell the farm for luck.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Fujita, Hillis, Sheldon Brown, Wallace, Gocong. Delhomme. Lets see 2 big hits, 3 serviceable and one dud. That seems pretty good to me. Even Jake has been really good for the development of Colt.
Firing mangini was a huge step towards winning.
He paved the way to have his beliefs throughout the organization. I dont know why some have the blinders on so tight that they can't see what is in front of them. Holmgren and Heckert came from the same distinct system. What is wrong with them wanting to build what they know? This is the system that has been very successful for them.
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New coach has to be in the playoffs his second season. Otherwise, we'll be entering the fourth year (out of five) of the Holmgren era with no progress to speak of (no, 8-8 at that point won't be considered progress). That's a pretty tall order.
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In the past 7 years Fisher's Titans have had 2 winning seasons, 2 .500 seasons, and 3 losing seasons.
Kinda strange .... in 16 years he's had 5 teams that went 8-8, and only 6 winning seasons. His team made the playoffs 6 times in 16 years.
I don't know if that excites me all that much.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, cause Gruden can only look great while inheriting a team w/ a super solid foundation built by someone like, let's say Tony Dungy. I'm sorry but I've always thought this guy was a tad bit overrated.
Brownoholic...
....sir, you seem to have forgotten about the Raiders...
Oakland RaidersUnder Gruden, the Raiders posted consecutive 8–8 seasons in 1998 and 1999, and leapt out of last place in the AFC West. After uniting with journeyman quarterback Rich Gannon, Gruden led the Raiders to the top of the AFC West and made the playoffs three straight seasons. Oakland finished 12–4 in the 2000 season, the team's most successful in a decade, and its first division title since 1990, ultimately reaching the AFC Championship, where they lost 16–3 to the eventual Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens. Gannon was hurt early in the game on an ill-timed snap, and Ravens tackle Tony Siragusa was later fined $10,000 for a late hit on the play that caused the shoulder injury that knocked Gannon out of the game.
The Raiders acquired all-time leading receiver Jerry Rice prior to the 2001 season. They finished 10–6 and won a second straight AFC West title but lost their divisional-round playoff game to the eventual Super Bowl champion New England Patriots, in a controversial game that became known as the "Tuck Rule Game." The game went into overtime and the Patriots won, 16–13. web page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Honestly, it's not like Gruden didn't build the Raiders into a playoff caliber football team. Losing to the Super Bowl Champs from the AFC twice is not an indication you have not succeeded as a HC.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Yeah, cause Gruden can only look great while inheriting a team w/ a super solid foundation built by someone like, let's say Tony Dungy.
I saw someone else use this point on here within the past couple of weeks, but it needs to be mentioned whenever Gruden's name is dragged through the garbage because he took "Dungy's team" to the Super Bowl.
What team did Gruden face in the Super Bowl? The Raiders.
What team did Gruden coach the previous season? The Raiders.
Gruden may have won with "Dungy's team" but if that was "Dungy's team" then "Gruden's team" was also in the Super Bowl as he had coached the Raiders the four previous seasons.
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i, for once, am shocked that i am in agreement with MAC. way to go MAC
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If we are going to have another bullcrap changeover we may as well sell the farm for luck.
Bullcrap changeover? From what? It's not like we are going to destroy some deep talented core to rebuild. We have a few young promising players, one or two elite players, and a bunch of stopgaps.
We are not in another rebuilding process, we are in the same rebuilding process that started when Holmgren took over last year and maybe even when Mangini took over the year before that.
And sell the farm for Luck. Yes, he is great. But there is no way Carolina moves from #1 to #6 when the best available player is a slam dunk QB prospect and they need a QB.
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U know what I meant.I know why Holmgrem kept Gini around..but to look at the final product..they weren't on the same page.
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Shouldn't come as a big surprise to anyone.
Holmgren has been saying for a month now that he'd wait till the season was over.That leads to one of two conclusions.
Holmgren is a Grade A jerk for not backing his coach,or Mangini was getting fired at year's end.
On the day he was hired I vowed I would not get emotional invovled with the team until he was gone.I upheld that until yesterday's game.That sickening,angry high blood pressure feeling returned.I would have cheered if they had announced that the whole pacaca was moving to LA.
Now we'll see what kinda man Holmgren is.If he inserts himself as coach,then I will say a dishonest one.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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In the past 7 years Fisher's Titans have had 2 winning seasons, 2 .500 seasons, and 3 losing seasons.
Kinda strange .... in 16 years he's had 5 teams that went 8-8, and only 6 winning seasons. His team made the playoffs 6 times in 16 years.
I don't know if that excites me all that much.
I want nothing to do with Fisher.
He might be great but I have also seen him lose control of his lockeroom.
We already did that once or twice.
PASS.
I assume you were not responding to me? 
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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Many fans who want Holmgren to coach can't even pronounce or spell his name right (they call him "Holgrem.")
SMH.
#gmstrong
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How long until fans are calling for the future coaches head?
I give him a year. I want be like Django and ride a coaches ars his entire tenure.
His first loss next year. Heaven forbid if it's against a division rival to boot. If that's the case it won't be just "calling for his head" but rather daily fire the coach threads.
I fully expect whomever we hire to be fired in 2-3 years and about 4 QB's later. So, in that respect, does it even matter who we hire? I think not.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Fisher will not be a candidate.
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If we are going to have another bullcrap changeover we may as well sell the farm for luck.
Bullcrap changeover? From what? It's not like we are going to destroy some deep talented core to rebuild. We have a few young promising players, one or two elite players, and a bunch of stopgaps.
We are not in another rebuilding process, we are in the same rebuilding process that started when Holmgren took over last year and maybe even when Mangini took over the year before that.
And sell the farm for Luck. Yes, he is great. But there is no way Carolina moves from #1 to #6 when the best available player is a slam dunk QB prospect and they need a QB.
Bullcrap changeover? yeah, I sort of see it. Gini wasn't perfect but I really would of liked to see what would of happened longer term. Vers always talked about the merry go round of misery, I really do believe that is true here. We finally got a couple of pieces to make the 3-4 work, we have some really good coaches (our STs are awsome, we were able to beat NE & NO). If you don't agree, it's cool.
ha ha, your right about Luck. I was kind of peeved when I heard the announcement and I spoke out of emotion, that's all. I was not happy with Colt on Sunday, and I have a lot of doubts that he's a good long term guy.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I would have to question the Fox idea .. For starters he hired Jeff Davidson to be his " OC " ??? 
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Just wanted to comment on this as it seems to be a general perception by the masses around here: Quote:
Then Heckert and Holmgren put together what might be the best draft since the Browns return in 99.
What about this draft is so epic?
Rd 1: Joe Haden - probably our best CB. Not a pro-bowler but a solid pick at a position of need.
Rd 2: TJ Ward - gets lots of pub for being a big hitter and solid tackler but the man is H-O-R-R-I-B-L-E in pass coverage. If he's not paired with a stud coverage safety he is a liability on defense. Not what I really want out of a 2nd round pick IMO.
Rd 2: Montario Hardesty - oft injured college RB who played exactly 1 pre-season game before suffering yet another season ending injury. Love his potential. Can't count on him any more than the 3rd string punter at this point though.
Rd 3: Colt McCoy - unexpectedly forced to start as a rookie. Had 2 amazing games early which made people stand up and say "holy crap the Browns just may have something" but once other teams got some film on him, he looks a lot more like Charlie Frye 2.0 than a top tier NFL QB (ended with a QB rating of 74...he was 1 more INT away from hitting DA territory). He was a 3rd round pick for a reason. He just may end up being a really accurate, smart and tough-nosed NFL backup QB. That's not good enough.
Rd 3: Shawn Lauvao - gets injured and misses a ton of time and then when healthy wasn't even good enough to push the orange barrel St. Clair out of the starting line-up by allowing Womack to slide over. If he's worse than St. Clair that's saying something. Ouch.
Rd 5: Larry Asante - cut.
Rd 6: Carlton Mitchell - #6 on the depth chart of the worst WR corps in the entire NFL. Might as well cut him.
Rd 6: Clifton Geathers - cut.
I see ONE solid starter out of the whole draft in Haden. What about that screams that it was such an awesome draft again???
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I think you need to look at what he's saying. He's saying it's our best draft since '99.
Can you pick a draft since '99 that's been better?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Rd 3: Shawn Lauvao - gets injured and misses a ton of time and then when healthy wasn't even good enough to push the orange barrel St. Clair out of the starting line-up by allowing Womack to slide over. If he's worse than St. Clair that's saying something. Ouch.
thats sort of a stretch. you can't compare apples and oranges no matter how much you can BEND things.
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I'm not bending anything. Our options were starting Lauvao - Womack vs. Womack - St. Clair. We chose the latter. That speaks volumes to me.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I'm not bending anything. Our options were starting Lauvao - Womack vs. Womack - St. Clair. We chose the latter. That speaks volumes to me.
Yes you are bending.
He had a high ankle sprain as a rookie, which hindered his ability to know the offense from the get go. Pretty sure he ended the year on the IR.
you had a good run Hank.
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Closest is definitely the one that got us Thomas, Wright, McDonald, and Steptoe... if it weren't for that one huge wart it would be pretty darned good.
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Yeah, cause Gruden can only look great while inheriting a team.
I call BS on that statement by the press. He's the one who strongly recommended Colt McCoy to MH. And with a high pick the team could bring a top-end WR.
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While we're talking about candidates, I think everybody should be monitoring the whole situation in Tennessee. If Jeff Fisher goes, he'll have one of the shortest unemployment periods in history. I'd LOVE for Holmgren to scoop him up.
Me too re: Fisher. That would be awesome. While win/losses are important, coaching style and presence is important to me.
Browns fan in Canada.
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Pretty sure he ended the year on the IR.
Lauvao has been on the active roster the entire season.
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Looks like Perry Fewell will be our Rooney Rule guy.
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Pretty sure he ended the year on the IR.
Lauvao has been on the active roster the entire season.
Hmmm...I'm almost sure I read somewhere that he ended on IR.
Either way, that ankle problem set him back in training camp and he never recovered. He's got a few more years.
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482 |
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Pretty sure he ended the year on the IR.
Lauvao has been on the active roster the entire season.
This. Pashos and Yates were the guys on OL to end on IR.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 30
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 30 |
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Yeah, cause Gruden can only look great while inheriting a team w/ a super solid foundation built by someone like, let's say Tony Dungy.
I saw someone else use this point on here within the past couple of weeks, but it needs to be mentioned whenever Gruden's name is dragged through the garbage because he took "Dungy's team" to the Super Bowl.
What team did Gruden face in the Super Bowl? The Raiders.
What team did Gruden coach the previous season? The Raiders.
Gruden may have won with "Dungy's team" but if that was "Dungy's team" then "Gruden's team" was also in the Super Bowl as he had coached the Raiders the four previous seasons.
Great point. Not one I've ever heard mentioned.
I admire Gruden for his work ethic and almost crazy dedication to learning the sport (unmatched). I think he'd do great here in Cleveland w/ MH.
Browns fan in Canada.
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