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Legend
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Legend
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I wonder if Ryan showed up at the interview with a bag of Fritos and a Chocolate Yoo-Hoo ... I don't know why thats such a funny visual to me ... kind of like a Chris Farley character or the Fat B****** in Austin Powers.
GIT IN MA BELLY!"
Good luck to him, though. Hope he gets the job.
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Legend
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didn't we already try the 'convert a college coach to an NFL coach' thing?
To be fair, we've also tried the "respected coordinator with outstanding credentials" thing as well as the "unfairly fired head coach who's going to learn from his mistakes this time" thing. So what's left?
We've not tried respected position coach or ST Coach! I'd not mind us looking at Seely.
For what he's been asked to do, he's done very well.. And he's already on staff.. (I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing)
Everywhere he's coached, his units have been at the top or close to the top of the league.. Hard to find much fault with the guy.,.
Having said all that, just because we tried a respected coordinator that didn't cut it, doesn't mean that the next one won't.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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didn't we already try the 'convert a college coach to an NFL coach' thing?
To be fair, we've also tried the "respected coordinator with outstanding credentials" thing as well as the "unfairly fired head coach who's going to learn from his mistakes this time" thing. So what's left?
We've not tried respected position coach or ST Coach! I'd not mind us looking at Seely.
For what he's been asked to do, he's done very well.. And he's already on staff.. (I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing)
Everywhere he's coached, his units have been at the top or close to the top of the league.. Hard to find much fault with the guy.,.
Having said all that, just because we tried a respected coordinator that didn't cut it, doesn't mean that the next one won't.
I think Seely is a career coordinator. He would have gotten interviews by now if he wasn't.
That said, he's an outstanding coordinator.
Rob Ryan is going to be a disaster of a head coach. His brother walked into a great situation. Rob won't.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/08/11 01:57 PM.
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Dawg Talker
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To be fair, we've also tried the "respected coordinator with outstanding credentials" thing as well as the "unfairly fired head coach who's going to learn from his mistakes this time" thing. So what's left?
Ding ding ding! Answer: stick with a coach for more than 3-4 years REGARDLESS of how much/little success he has and actually give him time to build a team to fit their scheme and establish some years of continuity. If success doesn't follow after that, then you can look another direction. We haven't done that yet. Not once. But, we don't learn, nor does anyone WANT to learn.
People may think I'm just sour due to firing Mangini but really I'm just sour on how ... poor our organization is run. The worst part is it's not going to change either. We'll fire whomever we hire this year within 4 years. Take that bet to Vegas. So who cares who it is? It doesn't matter.
Here we go round the mulberry bush!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Practice Squad
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Look at the Texans they continue to allow Kubiak to build his team and it's been a disaster. They never achieve better than mediocrity. A good coach will show growth, Mangini grew as a human in Cleveland, but wasn't ready to grow schematically. He continued to mismanage the clock and make deflating calls in crucial game situations.
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Quote:
Ding ding ding! Answer: stick with a coach for more than 3-4 years REGARDLESS of how much/little success he has and actually give him time to build a team to fit their scheme and establish some years of continuity. If success doesn't follow after that, then you can look another direction. We haven't done that yet. Not once. But, we don't learn, nor does anyone WANT to learn
Romeo got 4 years and so did Butch. I guess if you didn't do it with the last coach then that means you've never done it. 
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Notice I said MORE than 3-4 years. When is the last time we had a coach last until his 5th season?
Answer: Bill Belichick in 1995 and he was promptly run out of town that year. Hey it's only going to take us 20 years (if we're lucky with this hire) to keep someone 5 straight years.
When is the last time we've had a coach last until his 6th season?
Answer: Sam Rutigliano in 1983.
We're going to go THIRTY YEARS or more without a 6 year coach. Unreal.
And some of you wonder why nobody would want this job? You're GUARANTEED to get canned within 4 years.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Legend
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Legend
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Just speculating here but I think those coaches wouldn't have been canned had they won more than they lost - Marty excluded.
It just seems your argument is pretty baseless.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
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Why let someone get to the fifth season if they are crap in the third and fourth? 
<><
#gmstrong
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per google the average length of time a coach stays with a team in the NFL is 4.34 years.
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Just speculating here but I think those coaches wouldn't have been canned had they won more than they lost - Marty excluded.
It just seems your argument is pretty baseless.
It takes TIME to rebuild a roster. Whether it's because the players stink or they just don't fit your system. You can not expect any results (see: wins) during this process. The win/loss record of any coach, excluding someone like Tomlin who doesn't have to change a thing personnel-wise but just takes over, for their first 3-4 years is completely meaningless. Problem is, as soon as we wait out the rebuilding years we've already fired the guy and moved on to somebody else to start the whole process all over again. We're in constant rebuilding. Oh joy!
Now, if you give a coach 3-4 years to build the team and then 2/3/4 years after that time he still isn't winning then by all means fire him and move on, but this fire a guy every 3 years crap is just that. Crap.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Legend
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Legend
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I think Seely is a career coordinator. He would have gotten interviews by now if he wasn't.
everyones a career something, until they aren't anymore.. Are you absolutly sure he hasn't gotten consideration to be a HC before? So maybe he's had interviews..
I'm not pimping seely as the next HC of the Browns.. I'm just saying, he's worthy of consideration. Nothing more and nothing less.
As for Ryan,, who knows?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Why let someone get to the fifth season if they are crap in the third and fourth?
Because no coach can win with crap players or players that don't fit their system...and with only 7 draft picks plus approximately 10-11 free agents a year, it takes a MINIMUM of 3 years to turn over a roster. Until they have the players in place to actually implement whatever their vision is, their record is pointless. But no, we demand winners from day 1 and call the coaches "crap".
You guys think I'm kidding when I sarcastically say we'll all be behind the new head coach 100%...until he loses his first regular season game next year. Then all bets are off.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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per google the average length of time a coach stays with a team in the NFL is 4.34 years.
And since Rutigliano we've had 8 coaches in 31 years, for an average of 3.88 years per coach. So we fire coaches a full half a year BEFORE the AVERAGE NFL team. And if you take away Sam it becomes 7 coaches in 24 years for an average of 3.43 years per coach. A full year too early just to get to average...let alone become a successful organization with some stability.
Call me when our average coach lasts 5+ years (anywhere ABOVE average). It might not happen this century.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Legend
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So you want to give a coach 8 years before they start winning? No thanks.
I feel bad for coaches that don't have a QB. But in the absence of having a QB you've got to make the most of what you got. You have to have an approach that you believe in, and then you have to be able to execute on game day. I know you're sore about Mangini ... I'm not happy about it and I was tired of him by the end ... but he only had one half of that equation. His teams were flat on game day - whether it was the play of the players, the game plan, the lack of adjustments, the lack of taking risks, or the poor time management. You don't need any more proof than watching the tape.
Is that something that will get corrected in 8 years? My guess is Holmgren probably thought it wouldn't.
And one other thing about Mangini. I think he is his own worst enemy. He is 38 years old, and he talks like he's 55. Like he's had the experience to know what it takes. That article the other day had plenty of quotes that read like this ... "The next coach is going to have a great foundation" ... "I'm proud of what we did and accomplished" ... there's confidence and there's borderline arrogance ... for someone so young, he believes in himself and his methods to a fault ... he should still be in learning mode ... not acting like he has all the answers ... I think this is what ultimately got him fired.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
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I personally was hoping that EM was going to be here longer because I thought he was a good coach... but with MH and a whole new front office coming in I was VERY surprised they kept him last year... so now after the Browns made some progress this year and had a HUGE fall in their last four games Holmgren wants to bring in his own coach... no surprise there... new front office usually means new coach.
Looking back at our other coaches... RAC I thought had potential because of his pedigree from NE but obviously not set up to be a head coach... Butch was just a huge mistake IMO... hated the pick... hated his draft picks... really didn't like anything about him and was sad it took us so long to get him out of here... Palmer was just didn't have much of a chance with an expansion team...
you are right that continuity is a good thing... I'm hoping that MH stays here for awhile and finds a coach he really likes and we can ang onto him for awhile... no one we've fired since returning has gotten a second look at being an NFL head coach since leaving here... mabye Eric will... maybe not...
<><
#gmstrong
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So you want to give a coach 8 years before they start winning? No thanks.
If that's what it takes to establish long-term and sustained success, then absolutely positively YES. However, I think a well-informed decision can be made after year 5 or 6. Give them 3-4 years to build the team and then another 2-3 years to prove their merit. We like to skip the 3-4 years to build portion and just jump to the 2-3 years to prove themselves part.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I personally was hoping that EM was going to be here longer because I thought he was a good coach... but with MH and a whole new front office coming in I was VERY surprised they kept him last year... so now after the Browns made some progress this year and had a HUGE fall in their last four games Holmgren wants to bring in his own coach... no surprise there... new front office usually means new coach.
Looking back at our other coaches... RAC I thought had potential because of his pedigree from NE but obviously not set up to be a head coach... Butch was just a huge mistake IMO... hated the pick... hated his draft picks... really didn't like anything about him and was sad it took us so long to get him out of here... Palmer was just didn't have much of a chance with an expansion team...
you are right that continuity is a good thing... I'm hoping that MH stays here for awhile and finds a coach he really likes and we can ang onto him for awhile... no one we've fired since returning has gotten a second look at being an NFL head coach since leaving here... mabye Eric will... maybe not...
I think that if Butch Davis walked into this situation he would be a winner. His problem was he was over loaded with too much responsiblity. He was a good coach, but no way should he of been running his own drafts, or scouting, and all the rest of his duties at that time.
I think you could pull in damn near any coach in the NFL, or the college ranks and with this front office they will be succesful. I want Gruden, but the more and more I think about it Im really doubting that he will come here. His son being a senior will play a very important role in him not coming back to coaching IMO.
And the best part about this new coach is its not on your shoulders or mine its in the Big Shows hands, and I trust his judgement over some random fans anyday of the week. No offense bud. I just hope who ever is on the radar we can get them locked up asap so we can prepare for the draft, get his assistants in, and start to work on the systems asap....tired of always being last to the dance each year!
#brownsgoodkarma
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Hall of Famer
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didn't we already try the 'convert a college coach to an NFL coach' thing?
No we didn't. Carmen Policy did. That's been a big part of the problem here. People who have no right choosing an NFL head coach has been choosing them for us.
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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All Pro
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All this talk about time coaching begs we have had the worst front office in the NFL since Marty and Accorsi were forced out.
Then since our return we went from the sad Joke combo of Policy/Clark to Garcia a yes man for Davis to Opie to Kokinis to finally some real football men calling the shots.
OK, Mangini is out and Ryan is set to sign with Dallas( we blew it big time not resigning Ryan). So while I bemoan we are rebuilding in Heckert and Holmgren at least we have real acumen choosing players. They had a real solid 2010 draft.
I am not exited we are going with jauron and did not strive to carry over some continuity as Ryan did so much with so little and his players loved him.
Sorry while it is a start over not having the likes of Clark, Garcia, Opie, Kokinis choosing your roster and having Heckert and Holmgren is a real plus.
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