DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Head Coach Interviews (Cont'd)

Is Bradford coming with him? It really pains me to even say this but if Luck is indeed returning to college and coming out next year I hope our new coach Palmerdaviscrennelmanginishurmer looses every game. I'm sick to death of watching teams with good QBs make the playoffs every @#$ year while we comb the QB scrap heap and debate the merits of Huey Dewey and Lewey.
If in the IMO unlikely event McLewey turns into Drew Brees then.. nevermind.

I'm getting disheartened, discouraged, annoyed and bummed. We are not attracting the best football people, (and frankly, there's not a lot out there.)

Phooey. I'm going to get an invoice for my season tickets (IF there is a season) and I'm going to have to pay it hoping I'm not in for another dismal season.

That's Huey, Dewey & Louie to you sir.

j/c

I'm wondering to myself: "Isn't it a little premature to be throwing up one's hands at this point?"

Just because we 'casual fans' don't see [our version of] a "slam dunk".... does it mean that our FO can't see a good prospect from the list of candidates? What do we know of these people besides what we're given online, over TV, and throught newspapers?

Are we 'in the game'... and see things from an insider's view?

What might we possibly NOT know about the prospective candidates that hasn't already been poured over, sifted through, and reviewed time and again by the FO?

Are we ready to throw in the towel on January 12... based on intel that trickles out in drips to a media that has nothing of substance, and works its own agenda for readership?



Are H3 as clueless as we fans are? Really?? -after being in The Biz for a collective 90+ years of professional service to The Game?



Are we Browns fans really that beaten up, abused, jaded and disappointed that we can't give H3 a chance of making even their first (real) moves without second-guessing their choices... WHEN A CHOICE HASN'T EVEN BEEN MADE YET?

Maybe it's time for the fans to get a grip... and realize that:

1. They don't live the life of an NFL professional.
2. They don't see even 10% of what an NFL professional sees... and as such, can't make choices that are worth a damn.
3. Winning every night at some Madden game in a dingy "man cave" doesn't make you a GM/Prez of a real-life NFL football team.

The search process is only 9 days old. NINE DAYS.

I for one, am encouraged by the fact that noone has been named. It communicates to me that there is no sense of desperation in the FO, no knee-jerk decisions are being rammed through, and that due diligence is being excercised in the choosing of this team's new leadership.

Can we all pleeeeze step back from the cliff- and let the FO do what's they're paid to do?

Even AFTER the choice has been made, there will be a season or two of football to determine if the choice was right. Throwing up our hands over the HC prospects (or lack thereof) seems a bit reactionay and premature to me....

...but that's just me.

Let the flamin' begin. I'm a big boy- I can take it.

p.s You're one of My Dawgs, Saint- you know you are... but what you're saying reminds me of just how desperate we Browns fans are to see a winner.... and how quickly we can turn when things don't seem to be going the way we think they should be. All I'm sying with my post is that we need to let it play out before we start forming our conclusions. Hanging ropes from trees and selling off PSL's seems a bit premature to me... just sayin, Dawg...

In some ways , we are.

In other ways, not.

We have opinions, which have been formed using as much information as we have. In some cases that is the end results that a coach's team has accomplished. In some cases it is interviews by the coach in question. In other cases, it may be a superstar play specifically singling out a coach as vital to his development. In still others, it may just be the leadership shown on the sidelines by a coach. Yet other coaches show their capability by coaching in the college ranks.

I look at so-so to slightly above average coordinators, and see that sometimes they are convinced of their own brilliance on that offensive side of the ball. I look at the Ravens hiring a guy like John Harbaugh, who has great leadership skills, but was a Special Teams/ DB Coach. He went out and hired a Cam Cameron to run his defense. He went out and hired a Rex Ryan to run his defense. He wound up, obviously, replacing Ryan when he became Jets head coach, but the defense was set by then.

The guys who seem to come in from nowhere to succeed have many of the prime pieces in place.

Look at Mike Smith in Atlanta. He ran a nice defense in Jacksonville. It wasn't an all world defense, but it was often top 10. He did that from 03-07, then became Falcons' head coach. He went and got a great OC in Muhlarkey. He kept the LB coach from the previous regime and made him DC. He plugged in veteran coaches like Terry Robiske, Ray Hamilton, (Both who have served as Browns assistants at one point or another) Tim Lewis (a former DC with the Steelers and Giants) The list goes on, Here is a "defensive genius" type ... yet he went out and found very, very good assistant coaches ... even on defense.

Look at Mike Tomlin. He walked into a very good situation, and went there to be the leader. The team didn't run "his" defense. So what? He kept the 3-4 anyway. He worked on improving the team, and has done so. He has quality coaches all around him, and an exceptional player acquisition system in place. He went in and didn;t reinvent the wheel. He didn;t micro-manage. He managed the big picture, and has done so wonderfully. man I wish we could have a head coach like that, yet they seem to fall out of the trees for some teams.

I look at what makes for a good head coach ..... and I have to wonder if I see it in the guys who are most often identified as candidates. I think that Muhlarkey would have to have it, seeing as he has coached with some of the top minds, and some damn successful coaches. I like Fewell from what I have read about him ...... he's a fiery guy, and seems to already have a plan, with assistant coaches and such already picked out. I worry about a guy like Shurmer. He's been a so-so OC ...... and really doesn't seem to have that personality that would give the "I'm in charge here" type attitude without actually having to say it. He's ...... competent. I'm not sure that's wnough for this team.

He's probably the safest pick ..... maybe a solid single. This team doesn't need a solid single at Head Coach though .... it desperately needs a home run. Seely might be a home run. Fewell might be a home run. Muhlarkey seems like a double, at least. Most of these other guys seem like singles ...... or worse yet ... bunts.

Oh well ,,, we'll see how it turns out. It's gonna take years though. They're gonna be painful years too.

Honest question, not trying to be inflammatory: what evidence are you basing your judgment of Shurmer's personality on?

I ask because I've been trying to find out more info about the guy, but other than a video of a press conference he did and some generic compliments from Rams players, I haven't been able to get much of an impression of the guy.

His offense was OK, in a really bad division.

He did do a nice job with a rookie QB, but that's about it.

I watched some of his press conferences, and he's a rather bland personality.

I have yet to see Bradford really go out of his way to throw praise at the guy.

All I can go by is what I see, but he doesn't seem to be a great motivator, or all that inspiring.

J/C



Browns fans are so easy to predict. I love it when I'm right. I give "insert HC name here" two years MAX. It's why I keep saying it doesn't even matter who it is.

But, hey maybe we can re-hire Butch Davis as head coach after that right? Crennel could be our defensive coordinator with Chris Palmer as offensive coordinator and Mangini as the special teams coach. Now THAT'S a coaching staff!...oh wait nevermind.

I look at what kind of coaches appear to be successful in the NFL, and what kind do not.

To me, Shurmer seems to fall into the latter category. That's my opinion. You can all you want, but that won't change my opinion, or make the guy any more successful.

Maybe I'll be wrong. If he winds up being our coach, I will certainly hope so. It just seems to me that certain types of characteristics seem to allow for a coach to make the next step to being a great head coach ..... and I question whether or not Shurmer has those characteristics.

Yours was a greatly informative addition to the debate though. I sure learned a lot ....... so thanks ....

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Yours was a greatly informative addition to the debate though. I sure learned a lot ....... so thanks ....

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I always laugh when I see something like this. It generally means that the person disagrees with whatever was said but can't really come up with a good reason why so you essentially call the other guy's intelligence into question.

Anyone who is already slamming a guy that hasn't even been hired yet probably has a grudge/agenda that is easily seen.

You and a couple other guys have displayed various degrees of dissatisfaction with every guy who has ever been mentioned as a possible candidate. Except the guy who got canned. For being 10-22 in 2 years and showing that he really doesn't understand offensive football in the NFL.

I have no doubt that Mike Holmgren and Heckert have more football knowledge than all the guys on this board combined. By a wide margin. So excuse me if I trust them to pick our new coach.

Back down off the ledge, boys, it's not that bad. Really.

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Now if all that hung on Gruden taking the job, then maybe it all goes out the window but I would think Holmgren would have known or had an idea what Gruden was up to all along.

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I agree, because there was no rule that he couldn't talk with Gruden or needed permission as with most of the other candidates. The two of them have likely talked more than we know over the past year and Holmgren may have known Gruden's mind-set and decision 6 months ago.

At this point, since it appears Holmgren probably has his plan near completion, I don't care "who" who is,...I just want it to be the correct choice. I can be patient and wait, if it's gonna be right.

j/c

Let me see if I can figure this out:

1) When Holmgren was hired, everyone was excited because we have a true "football" guy in charge of decisions. We have faith in him.

2) When Holmgren hired Heckert, we were excited because we had a good GM.

3) When Mangini was fired, everyone was excited because Holmgren would make the right choice.

4) All fans started making their list of who they wanted to be coach due to the fact that all of us fans are in the interviews, review the tapes, and study the game 24/7 like the FO people do.

5) As soon as someone is "reported" as being the frontrunner, and the fans have either never heard of him or he wasn't on their list, then Holmgren is an idiot and this is going to fail and we'll probably all die from an outbreak of the bubonic plague.

6) Because Holmgren liking someone that they don't like means that they're wrong, and they can never be wrong. Saying such is an affront to God.

Here's my approach, which is no more right or wrong than anyone else's:

I love to watch football. I know a little about it. But I probably don't know 1/5,000,000 of what our FO knows. They've watched more football and studied it in depth more than I ever could. So, who am I to say they're right/wrong? I have my opinions, but it's not going to accomplish much for me to interject that because X coach is "reported" as frontrunner, our season is down the tubes and I should go live in Pakistan.

JMHO

In fairness yesterday was a bad day for me. The Asst Boss had her mad on and was flying around on her broom with the afterburners on. It always helps to have a good nights sleep.

I'm a reasonably passionate Browns fan. I would really like to see a good team on the field at CBS, I pay a good bit of time and money each year to see that.

All I can do is be patient and wait. And hope for the best.

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But I probably don't know 1/5,000,000 of what our FO knows. They've watched more football and studied it in depth more than I ever could. So, who am I to say they're right/wrong?

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79...and you know as much about football as most on this message board.

You know enough to realize Holmgren, Heckert and the interview team have a lot more knowledge about the game than you do. Many on this board will not admit that much!

I look at it this way..I ask myself...have the Browns improved since Holmgren took over?....The front office definitely improved with the hire of Heckert and the talent level of the roster improved which translated to improvements on the field.

Nothing has happened to make me believe this front office does not have the same ability to judge coaching talent in the same way they judged player talent during the draft and during free agency last year.

This is the level of expertise I expected when Holmgren was hired and his judgement has not disappointed me.

I trust Holmgren and those he hired, to build the Browns into a playoff caliber team.

j/c

I'm just happy to have multiple people potentially all in sync with how they want to run a football team.

In the words of Hannibal, I love it when a plan comes together.

jc

For all of you not happy with the people we are interviewing, I ask you this: Who do you want us to interview? Gruden and Cowher don't count. They are not interested (either in coaching or coaching the Browns). Who are your suggestions.

Here are mine:

Dom Capers
Mike Nolen
Mike Munchak

In that order.

Anybody have any interest in Mike Tice?

Honestly, if it can't be Gruden (who I wanted when they hired Mangini) then I figure it doesn't matter.

I trust Holmgren and Heckert to make the right choice.

You sir are very correct.

This board is all about opinion and that is grand.

The problem begins when people lose sight of the business of football.

The NFL is a super competitive multi-billion dollar business. All 32 of the franchises are doing everything they can think of to win.

Finally after so many years we have a President who has won everywhere he has been. He hired a proven professional GM. It is only fitting that they hire a head coach who is their guy.

It is very hard to compete when you change talent evaluators (GM) because you can not maintain any vision of what type a team you are trying to build.

Give these guys a chance.

Ah baloney.

You know what ... that was an attack on the messenger more than the message,

I laid out a comprehensive argument why I did not like certain candidates, or types of candidates. I created an argument, using previously successful coaches to support said argument. I then expressed my opinion (which is, after all, the point of a message board) to express a football opinion.

My opinion was supported with reason. The reply was supported with " "

Yeah .. informative.


I don't have to agree with everything this front office does.. Obviously I do not. I have expressed an opinion regarding my feelings about the placement of the "top 3" as reported by the media.

I guess I should just post hallelujah about every decision, and make sure that I show no dissent ...... after all, they are experts .... and we all know that the experts are never wrong. I mean, we started out with experts (Policy, Clark) and look how quickly they took us straight to the top .........

this site says the Browns plan on keeping Rob Ryan and Seely this year..
link

Just need an offensive coordinator who knows how to get the most out of the talent available to him.

j/c

It's a crap shoot to select a head coach. We could end up with a Weiss or a Crennel or a Morningweg or a Childress who were good coordinators/assistants but were in over their heads as a HC. Or we could end up with a Reid or a Tomlin or a Mike Smith or a McCarthy who came in unheralded and have found success.

I love the fact that chats like this forum exist so fans can vent and suggest what they would do if they were Holmgren. But in reality, all we can do is hope H & H make the right choice. It sure would be great if they picked the perfect HC and he turned Colt into an All Pro and created one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL and a D that was fearsome and feared. And that Heckert keeps on selecting starting caliber players in the draft. The Browns are sure due.

It's not as much of a crapshoot as you think it is. The successful rookie head coaches walked into good situations with successful front offices already in place. Does anybody here really believe Tomlin or Harbaugh could have won more games with this year's team than Mangini did? Does anybody really believe the new head coach won't make mistakes? Mangini coached up a talent void team to incredible victories over NE and NO and within an inch of Stucky's toe to beating the Jets. In the Jets game we lost the leader of the linebackers (Fajita) the leader of the secondary (Brown) and the leader of the special teams (Cribbs). I think we should have kept Mangini the coach if he would have accepted a new offensive coordinator.

If the new coach succeeds it will be because Mangini made this team better. If he doesn't win right away then the fans and media will be calling for his firing. The search for the perfect coach who never makes mistakes then continues.

Firing the head coaches of the Cavs and Indians certainly helped!

j/c...

looks to me that Holmgren wants a pawn. someone he can exert a good amount of control over. Shurmur has not had a long/successful enough NFL career to warrant a HC opportunity on merit alone. this is about system and control...both Holmgren's. if reports on Ryan and Seely are true, how many times have you seen a HC NOT allowed to choose a staff? is Haskell the guy to round out the group, leaving Shurmur a figurehead?

i'm not saying that this guy won't be good...maybe he's the next phenom. but that won't change the fact that this move is basically Holmgren coaching without stepping on the field.

like all of you, i'll just be hoping for the best...and my guess is i won't be the first one to be lambasting the guy. IMO, all of you "i trust the experts" folks are just setting yourselves up for a breech in that trust. i don't trust. i hope...

Most coaches, whoever they are, form a staff before they are actually hired.

You really cant believe anything the media is saying at this point because no one but Holmgren and heckert know their intentions and they aint talking. Lots of speculation going on. Guess right and you look like a genius, guess wrong and the story was good while it lasted and soon forgotten.

I love the idea of keeping Ryan and Seely. They are good coaches. we need experienced coordinators no matter who is HC.




r

I can't wait to hear the reaction from Browns Fan if Shurmur is hired.

The smart ones will realize that as long as a stable front office is in place (Holmgren and Heckert) that can judge talent, Shurmur will succeed.

The mob will start shouting "Holgrem needs to coach or we need to pay Gruden whatever it takes to get Chucky and his angriness here! He's so firey and that makes him good!"

Unfortunately I think the mob will outnumber the smart ones.

Well then, Ammo, all the broken-hearted people will just have to suffer with more winning for a change. We proved we can compete with what is here and half an offense. One touchdown more per game and we win a surprising number of games. I think Mangini improved us; but some different folks and a change in coaching philosophy, not necessarily all the usual HC targets, and I include Holmgren, will improve us in some other areas, especially it is hoped, on game day.

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It's not as much of a crapshoot as you think it is. The successful rookie head coaches walked into good situations with successful front offices already in place.

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It appears that we have the makings of a good front office. Holmgren really worked on getting some top shelf folks in here starting with Heckert. I think we all see the value of his draft from this past year.

The next HC is going to be coming into a situation that at least appears to have the ship pointed in the right direction.

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Does anybody here really believe Tomlin or Harbaugh could have won more games with this year's team than Mangini did?

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That's such a tough question to answer... I don't think so but I bet you get lots of folks that will say they could have.

You and I are pretty much on the same line of thinking..

Mangini improved us a lot ..... and people say that ..... but how much of that improvement sticks if we completely change offensive and defensive systems.

Now I do realize that there is a rumor site saying that Ryan may be retained ..... but he may "not" also. If we go to a WCO and a 4-3 defense, the "core" of the team suddenly disappears, and the lessons taught by Mangini are diluted. Then it's a case of starting over on defense.

I also can't believe that Holmgren would say to Mangini "You're fired", and then keep most of his staff in place .... especially after Mangini instilled discipline and created a team that "could" beat anyone when they had their pieces healthy. If Holmgren said to Mangini, "I want to revamp the offense", I doubt that Mangini would have said "Fire me then, I'm not going along with that". Basically, that's what you might get (in a good case senario) is Mangini like discipline, with a similar defense and special teams, and a different offensive scheme. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Really, I would have thought that Holmgren would have a "knock it out of the park" candidate ready to go .... but it doesn't look like that will be the case. Who we will wind up with, and how he'll do, remains to be seen.

Fritz Shurmer could well have been one of the most liked coordinators around.
He had great success and no doubt was well liked by his peers and had many understudies. My guess is there will be plenty of good men wanting to coach with/for his grandson.

I agree with Ammo on the front office success will help Shurmer reach his potential. Not at all worried about him being able to put a good, competent staff together.

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Seriously, if the choice turns out to be Shurmur, is there something we should be excited about and looking forward to here? Jeez, I'd rather have John Fox than Shurmur.

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What if you could have both????

I have one, very good reason as to why you should be excited by whoever we hire.

This time, a football guy is going to be hiring another football guy and not Lerner.

I don't care much for Ryan...he's no all world DC but isn't terrible either, he's AVG overall, like his brother...their strength is that the players love them and are motivated for the most part and play hard for them but they're limited schematically and basically they're 1 trick ponies, so HC that can tone down his uber-aggressive ways is needed

Seely did a fantastic job here and should stay....

I know this much....if we keep Ryan and Seely you Mangini-apologists will look a lot dumber than you already do by now...it would once and for all prove my opinion that this guy was the biggest ego walking in Berea...because....why keep his DC and ST Coach? Why not just replace the OC, if he, like many on here claim, is a good or even decent HC?

You guys can repeat how good Eric "goo man" Mangini was and how much we supposedly "improved" thanks to him...but don't forget Holmgren's bottom line words on him that pretty much negate this funeral rhetoric:

(On if his decision was based on the direction the team was headed or more on the record)- “I don’t know if you can separate the two. I think if you look at our season it had tremendous highs and lows for me. I think when we beat New England and New Orleans, I don’t think anybody in this room could leave this room without a smile on their face. It was really something, something very special. Then as good as we finished last year, a year ago, we finished as poor this year. If you’re talking about direction or how I felt the team was going, the finish wasn’t a feel good finish. What I tried to do is not base my decision on any one game, any one play, any two games, any stretch but the body of work. As I told the players when I met with them today after Eric had talked to them I went in and talked to them briefly. I have high expectations and I’m not going to settle, I’m just not going to settle.”

Obviously Mangini didn't meet those high expectations...that's the nicest way possible to say: "You're just not a good enough HC in my opinion, bye"

Just clicking

I just did a quick check of Harbaughs background and while solid,, was really not all that and a bag of chips.. he'd never been a coordinator.. doesn't look like he was even a HC at the college level.

Tomlins resume isn't any more or less impressive really. He was at least a coordinator before becoming a HC in the NFL.

I guess my point is, it's hard for us out here in fan land to really see what Holmgren and Heckert see in a guy. So much depends on the interview and we'll never hear anything about those details.

I read Harbaughs Wiki page,, at one point it said that Steven Biscotti and Ozzie Newsome interviewed him and were so impressed, they hired him immediatly. That dispite his rather pedistrian coaching history. I would guess that the same could be said for Tomlin.

I'm trying not to be judgemental about various guys.. While I'm not overly impressed with any of those mentioned so far, maybe if I sat in on the interviews, I'd be impressed.. dunno.

This is the point at which I just have to trust Holmgren and Heckert to make the right choice.

While reading Harbaughs Wiki page, I saw Cam Camerons name as his OC and I thought,, why not him? I mean, his history is somewhat similar to or even better than Tomlin or Harbaugh..

That stint in Miami might have been an anomoly.. not sure.. 1-15 is hard to swallow.. But what talent did he have. One and done. He and most of his staff were fired after that one year.

So maybe he'd be a quality guy.

I'd still like Holmgren to interview Seely. His background is very similar to that of Harbaugh and Tomlin.. Why can't he be a decent candidate? (please don't tell me that he can't because all he's ever been is a ST Coach)

So much depends on the interviews.. we'll see I guess