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The bottom line is- It comes off to Browns fans that, again, Lerner doesn't care, probably doesn't want to spend money, and will not give H&H free reign to do what it takes to attract a REAL, PROVEN coach. So far as we fans know, the Browns haven't even talked to the 2 to 4 higher-end candidates. Nope, it's gonna be another regime that just settles for the bottom feeding candidates they can get without much of a fight.
You know what? I'd even rather hear something like "The Browns talked to Cowher and offered him the universe, but he said no- so they're hiring Shurmur/Fewell/Mularkey" then what we're actually getting, which is "We're not talking to anyone worth squat... but Shurmur is desperate for a shot at HC *anywhere* he can get one, so he'll take the job."
Better to know we TRIED than to allow the perception that they DON'T TRY... as usual.
First off...
1) Lerner already DID offer Cowher the moon and the stars. He said no.
1a) There's no way Cowher would come here with Holmgren as president. Not. A. Freaking. Chance.
2) Lerner isn't afraid to spend the money necessary. That's not an issue with him.
3) There's a reason we're going after the lower-rung guys rather than the splash hire: the lower rung guys are usually the best ones for the job.
IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THE BROWNS FAN WANT. It's what proven, credible football people want. Let the FOOTBALL PEOPLE make the FOOTBALL DECISIONS.
I have to say though...I am concerned that the serious candidates are from the Bob LaMonte tree only.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/12/11 02:27 PM.
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Everything you have said is true. Up to a point. And you are certainly entitled to your opinion (as I am to mine).
But since the day Mangini was fired until now you and a few others have done pretty much nothing but gripe about the way Holmgren has gone about things and his possible choices for EM's successor.
You could be totally correct in every thing you say. But the negativity is tiring to read. At least to me.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Negativity? On Dawgtalkers? Balderdash! 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I know this much....if we keep Ryan and Seely you Mangini-apologists will look a lot dumber than you already do by now...it would once and for all prove my opinion that this guy was the biggest ego walking in Berea...because....why keep his DC and ST Coach? Why not just replace the OC, if he, like many on here claim, is a good or even decent HC?
Django,
You need to expand this to include the players as well, but I think you're spot on if I'm reading this right. Hypothetically, if a new coach comes in and we have another draft like we did last year (which I would rank as above average overall) and we don't start a complete player overhaul (along the lines of switching to a 4-3, picking up and starting a new quarterback, stuff like that), and this team just comes out flying and doesn't stop, it would be hard to argue for Mangini. I buy into the whole "foundation has been laid" argument, but in terms of game-day coaching, there should be room to improve.
On Rob Ryan.... It seems like he had one way of coaching, and just stuck with it regardless of what he had to work with. He plays an attacking style of offense, and he didn't have the horses, but kept with that philosophy anyway. I guess I can respect that. What it comes down to, though, is that we could do WAY worse if we try to replace him. He gets his guys to play hard and gets the most out of his players. I think if we give him a guy or two more with some real talent, his real skill as a DC will come out. Just my opinion, though.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Just as the negativity about the former coach was for me to read .... so I guess it's a matter oif whether or not you agree with the other person's positionn or not.
I personally want to see a BIG upgrade at the head coach position. We made the move, and got rid of a coach who appeared to have the team moving in the right direction. To me, Shurmer is not that "Big" upgrade. He is a lateral move at best. (and I question whether or not he is even a lateral move) He does not instill be with a great deal of confidence.
I have watched a number of his press conferences. There are a lot of the on the Rams website. He doesn't seem to be all that inspiring a coach. I look at what he's done as a pro, and I'm not extremely impressed. I look for players who say "Man, I hate to think where I'd be without Coach Shurmer", and don't find them.
To me he's not the home run I am looking for. If you fire a head coach who has done some good things, and has the team moving in the right direction, I feel that we should be looking for a huge upgrade. Shurmer doesn't look like that to me.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just as the negativity about the former coach was for me to read .... so I guess it's a matter oif whether or not you agree with the other person's positionn or not.
I personally want to see a BIG upgrade at the head coach position. We made the move, and got rid of a coach who appeared to have the team moving in the right direction. To me, Shurmer is not that "Big" upgrade. He is a lateral move at best. (and I question whether or not he is even a lateral move) He does not instill be with a great deal of confidence.
I have watched a number of his press conferences. There are a lot of the on the Rams website. He doesn't seem to be all that inspiring a coach. I look at what he's done as a pro, and I'm not extremely impressed. I look for players who say "Man, I hate to think where I'd be without Coach Shurmer", and don't find them.
To me he's not the home run I am looking for. If you fire a head coach who has done some good things, and has the team moving in the right direction, I feel that we should be looking for a huge upgrade. Shurmer doesn't look like that to me.
Hate Mangini. And everything will be easier.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I personally want to see a BIG upgrade at the head coach position. We made the move, and got rid of a coach who appeared to have the team moving in the right direction. To me, Shurmer is not that "Big" upgrade. He is a lateral move at best. (and I question whether or not he is even a lateral move) He does not instill be with a great deal of confidence.
We know pretty much nothing about this guy (Shurmur). He used to work for both Holmgren and Heckert. I'd say they'd have a better idea if he is a good coach than you or me.
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I have watched a number of his press conferences. There are a lot of the on the Rams website. He doesn't seem to be all that inspiring a coach.
Press conferences? He's not inspiring through his press conferences. I'm sure that if you knew almost nothing about Belichick or Dungy they wouldn't be all that inspiring in there press conferences either.
Worst. Point. Ever.
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We know pretty much nothing about this guy (Shurmur). He used to work for both Holmgren and Heckert. I'd say they'd have a better idea if he is a good coach than you or me.
I think this is all any of us need know.
Good coaches have to come from somewhere! I'd rather have a possible surprise than a big splash name who achieves no more or less.
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That's what I have to go by. I can't go interview the guy myself.
I'm not impressed with the guy. At all. I'm not terribly impressed with his accomplishments over the course of his career. He appears to be competent .... but there are tons of competent coordinators.
I hope that I'm wrong if we wind up with the guy ..... but he doesn't look like a big addition to me. he doesn't look like the difference between the team staying in it's seemingly eternal death spiral, or turning it around.
I'm also not ready to just go along with whatever the front office says as being wonderful. I, obviously, have to accept that whoever they hire is the guy ..... but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with it. I will accept whoever they hire, and hope for the best, but I just don't get a good feeling about this Shurmer. He appears to me to be another Chris Palmer, or any other number of failed coordinators turned head coaches ..... a reasonably bright coordinator who just doesn't have the head coach essentials.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'd be curious to know if Shurmur has ever interviewed for a head coaching job before. If not, my question would be why? What I mean is, has he just been moving up the ladder, and this is the first step of the next step?
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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He has not that I know of. He's only been a coordinator for 2 years though, so that stops a lot of teams. Here's the St Louis media grades on their coaching staff (Shurmer's grade and feedback posted) if anyone is interested: (They gave Spagnola a B- and their defensive coordinator Ken Flajole a B+) Pat Shurmur: C+ The Rams went from scoring 11 points a game to 18 points a game. The Rams offense went from 29th to 26th in offense ranking. They went from 28th to 21st in the league in passing. They also went from 20th to 25th in rushing. That is progress. Not as much as any of us would have hoped, but progress nonetheless and that should be credited to Shurmur. Shurmur did a good job handling Sam Bradford and did a good job managing not having any top wide receivers. Shurmur did the best he could with his limited arsenal of offensive weapons. What has been interesting over the past few weeks is that you are starting to hear through back channels that Shurmur might have had the handcuffs placed on him by Steve Spagnuolo as the season went along. Whether that is true or not remains up to debate. Knowing the head coach's style it would not be surprising. In addition Shurmur is being considered for the head coaching job in Cleveland so it may be a function of trying to have his stock raised a little so he can acquire that position. Maybe the head coach is holding him back a little bit on showing how good this offense could become. At the very least it is interesting. Where Shurmur can really be criticized in 2010 is the way he handled Steven Jackson. The Rams had him run this season more than any time in his career and it was not effective. Some of it had to do with the Rams interior offensive line not performing up to acceptable levels, but some of it has to do with scheme because the running game was the exact same week in and week out. Assuming Jackson is back in 2011, and Shurmur for that matter, the Rams have to figure out a way to make him more effective without putting that much mileage on him. If you give him the ball that many times in 2011 there is no way he will survive a 16 game season. Continue reading on Examiner.com: Final Grades: 2010 St. Louis Rams Coaching Staff - St. Louis St. Louis Rams | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/st-louis-rams-in...f#ixzz1AqqUyRE2
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Here is last year's grades for the Rams from the same paper: This is from the 2009 season. Pat Shurmur: F The offense was the worst in the entire NFL and one of the three worst in franchise history. That can only get you a grade of an F. The offense was entirely too conservative this season and did not force the ball down the field. The only thing that you can give credit to Shurmur for in 2009 is that he realized that Steven Jackson was his best player and he tried to get the ball into his hands as often as possible. Heading into 2010 he needs more talent and then Shurmur needs to do something with that talent. I am not sure I would go with Shurmur into next season but Spagnuolo has indicated he is planning on keeping the staff together. Something has to change offensively next season. Continue reading on Examiner.com: 2009 Rams Coaching report card - St. Louis St. Louis Rams | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/st-louis-rams-in-st-louis/2009-rams-coaching-report-card#ixzz1AqsMTViy
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The thing about Jackson ......
Jackson had 330 carries last year.
People said that we ran Hillis into the ground with 270 carries.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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the handcuff thing seems silly to me. early on, they had Mark Clayton who had a real connection with Bradford and the offense looked good. as the season wore on, the Rams suffered a ton of WR injuries and were playing 3rd/4th stringers there at times. the passing game suffered and teams completely loaded up against the run. pretty simple.
whether or not he is a good OC doesn't necessarily reflect on his HC skills though. I want veteran, respected co-ordinators no matter who the HC is.
#gmstrong
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Thanks for the reads, YTown!
I guess I'm most leery of this guy because he's an unknown. (At least to many of us). I've said all along that Holmgren knows more than me and I'll trust his decision until I see it not working.
Of those we've interviewed, I'd chose Mularkey, but it sounds like his interview wasn't the best. If this goes on through the weekend, we could maybe see him get another interview (pending the Falcons game).
If Shurmur's the choice, I'd guess we'd know by the end of the week.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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We know pretty much nothing about this guy (Shurmur). He used to work for both Holmgren and Heckert. I'd say they'd have a better idea if he is a good coach than you or me.
Where did Pat Shurmer work for Holmgren.. I know his uncle Fritz did, but I didn't know that Pat did?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Shurmer worked for Heckert in Philly. That's what I know
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