Nope, read the whole thing. None of it negated the first statement. The rest of what you said means nothing if he did it for reasons other than acting on what Palin said....he could have well been pissed about something else that helped him decide to do this in his mental state.
I don't understand why some of you are so sure that is what set him off.
I can't believe that this actually - apparently - needs to be said, but guess what folks.... even if he says he DID do it because of something Palin said, IT IS STILL HIS FAULT AND NO FAULT WHATSOEVER LIES WITH PALIN OR ANY OTHER QUOTED PERSON.
To see this turn into a politi-slam thread like every other is absolutely disgusting.
People are dead. At least one child is dead. It is a whack-o, not politics.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
A couple of notes from the press conference tonight. When the sheriff was asked if the congress woman had received any threats, he replied that he knows of no public offical that has not received threats. He also blamed certain radio host and some tv hosts for inciting hatred for public officials.
They also said that they are looking for another person of interest that arrived with the shooter.
I absolutely agree with you. But had one of the victims NOT been a politician, politics would not come up. People who have no sense of decency will see it not for what it is but for what they wish to demonize it as. They are assuming that she was the target and politics hence played a part. I have yet to read why he did it. Perhaps he had no idea who was there and that was the place he chose.
If you think these posts are bad, jump on Huffpost and prepare to vomit. Or some other sites where people are laying culpability on political figures/tea party.
Face it. Our country is slowly rotting away from having any sense of decency.
And this quote made me cry:
Quote: An uncle of the 9-year-old girl told the Arizona Republic Saturday evening that a neighbor was going to the event and invited the child along because she had just been elected to the student council and was interested in government.
Quote: An uncle of the 9-year-old girl told the Arizona Republic Saturday evening that a neighbor was going to the event and invited the child along because she had just been elected to the student council and was interested in government.
Bullcrap to both sides of the aisle crap. There is only one side blaming the other, and without any facts I should add. It is your side.
This guy is a loon. Whether he is right or left (one of these articles have someone who he knew saying he was way left) doesn't matter to blame this on anyone is crap. You have a congressman on the floor of the house saying that a whole party wants old people to die. If some old person shot a member of that party do we blame the Congressman? Hell no.
I never thought that I would praise Mac, but I do respect what he had to say.
As I said before I hope she is going to be okay. I also hope that the others injured heal as well. My condolences to the members of the families that died.
I agree it's "my side" that is turning political on this, and it's despicable.
I was just saying that, in other situations as well, everyone always looks for someone to blame. It's colder than normal, that's Obama's/Bush's fault. A congresswoman gets shot, that's Palin's fault.
Not everything is "someone's fault" (outside of the wrongdoer). This guy in this case is a whack job. No one is to blame except for him and anyone who helped him.
That's all I was saying. Not everything that goes wrong in the world is a politician's fault.
Thanks for clarifying. I think i jumped the gun on my answer to you. Your comment seemed out of the norm and I should have asked you what you were saying before jumping on you.
just clicking... Fox last night said that the judge that was killed yesterday was not there by invite but stopped to pick up some food at the safeway store and went over to say hi to the congress woman Giffords. It was also stated last night that the judge had over 200 threats against him. I did not hear of a time frame.
Back to the other part. There are lots of radio/tv and web blogs with an agenda who would say almost anything to fire up the people; even if it is a lie, if it is hateful or if it might incite someone to go off the edge. Nancy Wasserman Schultz was on this morning talking about a rally against her where someone said if ballots won't remove these politicians, then bullets will. He is an article of the ramifications of that. It is about some nuts reaction to all of the hate that is being spread. And I am guessing that a story will pop up that the congresswoman deserved being shot in the head because she was a democrat or because of her vote on health care/immigration etc.
Broward Politics Report: Threat Linked to Joyce Kaufman's Call for "Bullets" By Bob Norman, Wed., Nov. 10 2010 @ 10:48PM Comments (111) Categories: Broward Politics Channel 7 is reporting that the man who allegedly threatened to shoot up a Pembroke Pines school was prompted somehow by Joyce Kaufman, the acidic right-wing radio-show host who was named yesterday as newly elected Congressman Allen West's chief of staff.
This whole thing is still murky, but WSVN reported that the threat was linked to Kaufman's "call to action" during a Tea Party rally in Fort Lauderdale on July 4 during which she said, "If ballots don't work, bullets will."
Kaufman and West ​The threat was emailed to Kaufman's radio station, WFTL-850. A woman identifying herself as the emailer's wife called the station to confirm it was real. And that led to the massive lockdown in public schools throughout Broward County. Broward Superintendent Jim Notter wrote in an email to selected school officials that the threat contained ethnic and religious slurs, though it's not clear which religion was at issue. The television report says the issuer of the threat had seen Kaufman's incendiary statement on Rachel Maddow's MSNBC the night before. That somehow sparked that person, according to Channel 7.
Again it's still a sketchy case. And it's important to note that there's really only one person to blame for today's lockdown: the person, still at large, who sent the email.
But the decision to hire Kaufman sure is one very dubious way for West to start his career as a congressman. I knew this guy was going to provide all kinds of good material for the Pulp, but nobody could have predicted his first major decision -- executed in totally amateur and idiotic fashion -- would indirectly lead to something like this.
Kaufman's rhetoric has been draped in hate for many years. But since Obama was elected, she's cranked it up and aimed it at the American government (rather than her usual targets, Muslims). She's intimated on numerous occasions that the Tea Party crowd needs to start some kind of revolution. She's compared the Teabaggers to the founding fathers prior to the Revolutionary War. "They decided that they were going to declare independence from a ruthless king who taxed them without representation," she said at a rally last year to wild cheers. "Does that story sound familiar?"
Of course that's not as direct as her bullets over ballots call. Kaufman's boss, West, is often portrayed as dangerous, and he might be just that. But more than anything else at this point, he just seems ridiculous. He's marginalizing himself by the minute, and it seems the margin is just where he belongs.
After the jump, see a key part of the Channel 7 report, which includes Kaufman's call to arms should the vote not go the Tea Party's way.
I believe that what is being said most often by cooler heads is that there are consequences to making irrational/inflammatory statements.. Free speech is a wonderful thing and all but, some common sense needs to be applied to some of the hate that goes on today. Free speech isn't really free. THere is a price that is paid by someone.
Maybe this guy read some stuff that made him angry, maybe he didn't. right now it seems to be more speculation than fact.
But just because someone writes it,, that doesn't mean someone else has to act upon it. This is this guys doing.. blaming anything or anyone else seems more political than anything.
I hope reasonable minds can agree that killing a political figure because you disagree with them isn't the answer..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
We see this all of the time from other less developed nations and to be honest it is scary to think that we may not be all that far removed from it happening here on a regular basis . Everything in me says that we as a people would not allow this to happen but can we be sure that this won,t become more common ? I have gotten the feel that the world we live in is changing to something darker but I had chalked it up to me being paranoid.....hope that is what it is.
Given initial reports, it is not as if this guy is some critically thinking person who is attacking a political figure because they disagree with them. It's a mentally ill person who got a hold of a gun. He could have set out to do this to anyone he happened to be focused on.
Nobody freaked out about politics when John Lennon was killed by a deranged person.
Quote: Given initial reports, it is not as if this guy is some critically thinking person who is attacking a political figure because they disagree with them. It's a mentally ill person who got a hold of a gun. He could have set out to do this to anyone he happened to be focused on.
Nobody freaked out about politics when John Lennon was killed by a deranged person.
Funny, I was just going to say that nobody blames Jodie Foster because Lennon was shot.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
BTW I have not had the news on all day... any update on the Congresswoman's condition? Is she going to be alright? Yesterday's initial reports were encouraging.
Thanks Daman, that is what I was trying to get across. Threre seem to be an increasing number of threats against public officials. There was a tv story last night that in the first 3 months of 2010 there were 3 times the number of threats compared to the first 3 months of 2010. And then came the health care vote and the threats increased even more, although they would not give exact numbers.
And then there was this article about packages sent last week to public officials that ignited. Is it the start of something or just a few crazies lashing out.
Package sent to Homeland Security Sect. Janet Napolitano ignites at Washington DC postal facility By James Gordon Meek DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Originally Published:Friday, January 7th 2011, 4:30 PM Updated: Friday, January 7th 2011, 5:29 PM
A package addressed to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano ignited at a Washington postal facility Friday afternoon.
The smoldering parcel found in a sorting bin around 2:45 p.m. was similar to pair of fiery packages sent to Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley Thursday. Those packages burned the fingers of workers who opened them.
The Washington postal facility in the northeast section of the city was evacuated and no injuries were reported. Police and emergency crews descended on the facility, where cops and FBI agents examined the smoldering parcel. The same D.C. postal facility was targeted with Anthrax spores and temporarily shuttered following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. It's unclear if the Washington package contained a note, as the Maryland packages had.
The message read: "Report suspicious activity! Total Bull----! You have created a self fulfilling prophecy." The packages, addressed to O'Malley and to Transportation Secretary Beverley Swaim-Staley, have been taken to the FBI lab in Quantico, Va., for forensic analysis.
They were opened within a 15-minute period Thursday at state government buildings 20 miles apart.
The workers who opened the packages singed their fingers, but there were no significant injuries.
Soon after, mailrooms across Maryland were cleared and two other suspicious packages uncovered, though they turned out to be a toner cartridge and laptop batteries.
Explosive material wasn't found in either package that ignited and authorities aren't sure if any other dangerous packages are out there, but mailroom employees were back at work Friday. They had pictures of the packages and were advised to be vigilant about anything suspicious.
Postal Service spokeswoman Joanne Veto said the suspicious D.C. package was discovered after another package was thrown on top of it. She said the labels, postmark and stamps were similar to the Maryland parcels.
Quote: Given initial reports, it is not as if this guy is some critically thinking person who is attacking a political figure because they disagree with them. It's a mentally ill person who got a hold of a gun. He could have set out to do this to anyone he happened to be focused on.
This is a big part of the problem... when somebody does something like this, or what happened at Va Tech or Columbine or any number of other incidences, we try to apply logic.... even the most illogical person on this board is 8000 times more "together" than this nut was. We want a reason, we want a single point of blame, we want the reason for something like this to fit neatly into a box... it's not going to. Had this guy waited and picked off this woman from a distance then had his get-a-way planned (ie - the John F. Kennedy Assassination)... then it might be a result of a rational person doing something stupid because of politics... this isn't rational, so trying to apply rational logic to it just isn't going to work. It's a tragedy, that's really all you can say. My thoughts and prayers go out to this woman, her family, and all of those affected.
As soon as I saw this was Democrat Congresswoman I turned to my wife and said they are going to say this is Palin, Beck, O'Reilly, and Rush's fault. Then it comes out that he is described by those who knew him as a liberal pot head, and it's still Palin, Beck, O'Reilly, and Rush's fault. Don't forget us hate monger Tea Party all white males. We are to blame too.
Guys a freaking nut job, plane and simple. If it happened to be a Republican congressperson in his neighborhood that day he would have shot him too.
The point was that whacko's find motivation or justification for their whacko ideas in the whackiest of places, like symbolism (which is what Sarah Palin's crosshair was).
I never said this guy did, he may or may not have, and that may or may have come to light already but I haven't been keeping up with the news. But it was irresponsible for Palin to do that. It would be just as irresponsible for Keith Olbermann to use the universal symbol for poison on a picture of Palin on his show to symbolize she's poisonous.
Sorry I didn't spell that out more clearly.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Quote: The point was that whacko's find motivation or justification for their whacko ideas in the whackiest of places, like symbolism (which is what Sarah Palin's crosshair was).
I never said this guy did, he may or may not have, and that may or may have come to light already but I haven't been keeping up with the news. But it was irresponsible for Palin to do that. It would be just as irresponsible for Keith Olbermann to use the universal symbol for poison on a picture of Palin on his show to symbolize she's poisonous.
Sorry I didn't spell that out more clearly.
Keep in mind, Palin and the Republicans were not the only ones who used this type of symbolism..
From the DCCC(Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee)
But you cannot really put blame or any link any map to the action of this guy like a lot of others are doing. The map may have been ill-conceived, but if you want to blast it, you need to blast both sides of the aisle as well. Though I do know a lot of strong liberals are ignoring that the DCCC used a similar graphic and are just going after Palin's use of it. And a lot of it is because it's Palin and she is the easy target to blame and they want to sling mud at her even though she may have had absolutely nothing to do with what happened..
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
I wasn't ignoring it, I said in my post it would be irresponsible for the left to do it (my olbermann example). You actually found me an instance where it happened and it isn't hypothetical though. These politicians and the people involved in their organizations need to start using a little better judgment. I get that riling people up can be a strong motivator to bring change, but it can also be a strong motivator for people to do bad things.
All I'm saying is some thinking before inciting is in order. From everyone.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Quote: Words have meaning...those who have a platform from which they speak, have a responsibility to understand their words have meaning.
If this was political motivated, this country will have "a great debate" about those who use their platform to incite.
Like I said, we don't know the details yet...some are assuming this is politically motivated and they might be right...we shall see.
Questions?
If one is mentally instable, does that mean that individual is to be excused for their actions?
If one is mentally instable, does that mean they can not be motivated by the words or actions of others?
Reading into the shooters background, it appears that politics and political beliefs have played a part in his life and thinking. The fact that he may be mentally instable does not mean the political discussion of the day may not have influenced the shooters thinking and possibly his actions.
Again, words have meaning, spoken or written...those who have a public platform from which they speak, have a responsibility to understand their words and actions have meaning.
Also, those who have a public platform..website, TV, radio, newspaper, etc...need to realize their words and actions are influencing many, from a few to millions...and that of those people who are influenced, there is no way to know if they are normal, insane, somewhere in between or teetering on the edge.
Trying to get some people to understand that there can be consequences to their words and actions, can be like hitting your head against a wall in today's environment. There have been warnings and until now, most of those warning have fallen on deaf ears.
The following video may not have anything to do with reason this shooter acted out and I'm not posting it to point fingers, either. I'm posting this as an example...showing that some have been concerned about the direction of political conversation in this country and the fact that could be consequences.
Within an hour of Giffords shooting, Palin's website of a map showing "crosshairs" on 20 democrats, was taken down. Maybe it takes something like this tragedy to make people understand that they do have a responsibility for what they say, what they write and for their actions.
We will find out much more about the shooter in future as the FBI talks to his friends, family and acquaintances about his beliefs and possibly his state of mind. But honestly, we may never know what caused this individual to act out.
Hopefully everyone will realize they can't pick "who" might be influenced by their words or actions...but that does not excuse us from "the responsibility" we have for the words we chose or the actions we take.
Quote: Trying to get some people to understand that there can be consequences to their words and actions, can be like hitting your head against a wall in today's environment.
You should start with the politicians themselves.
Quote: and that of those people who are influenced, there is no way to know if they are normal, insane, somewhere in between or teetering on the edge.
How careful do we expect them to be on the off chance that somebody is listening who is teetering on the edge?
Quote: I hope reasonable minds can agree that killing a political figure because you disagree with them isn't the answer..
Captain Obvious doesn't even begin to describe some of your posts.
Thanks
The one thing you fail to understand is, it's not so obvious. With all the rhetoric out there, the political bashing that turns into personal attacks.. it's apparently not so obvious for some folks.
Not saying this guy was or was not influenced by Palins rhetoric (personally, I think the guy is just a nutbag) but even the most hardcore have got to realize, we live in a world where there are some people with serious mental issues.
This guy sure seems to be one of them
and no, I'm not saying we have to temper our voices so as not to cause a rise from nuts like this. But a little caution isn't a bad thing.. Besides, I don't know about you, but I"m pretty sick of it myself..
So, it's not as obvious as you make it sound... I'm amazed at how far you would go to slam me or anything I say... incredible.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/10/1110:38 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
The entire thought process that drags Palin into this is so flawed and disturbed that I cannot even fathom being that developmentally stunted.
Truly an example of "Never Waste a Good Crisis".... and what is sad is how so many sheep on the "we're smarter" side of the fence run after it as if it were actually something with validity.
Absolutely disgusts me.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
The local NBC affliate ran an expose last night into the shooter and the events.. they created a graphic for it that they left in the lower left hand corner of the screen during the advertisement and during the regular news, promoting their upcoming special... I honestly don't remember the words, something simple like "Shooting in Arizona" or something like that.. then right beside it, as part of the graphic... was a circle with the crosshairs in it.... They know they have a link, they would deny it was intentional, but I have already contacted them and told them I thought their subtle attempt to keep the Sarah Palin crosshairs story alive and connected was pathetic and disgusting until there was at least some shred of evidence that there actually IS a connection.
Umm... a lot of what he said has quite a bit of meaning. It's nothing where I feel the same as him, but it's pretty clear what he's saying most of the time.
Quote: even if he says he DID do it because of something Palin said, IT IS STILL HIS FAULT AND NO FAULT WHATSOEVER LIES WITH PALIN OR ANY OTHER QUOTED PERSON.
Don't you know that guns don't kill people...Sarah Palin's political targeted district map kills people?
Anyone who wants to "blame" Palin's website might also want to blame Hollywood for glorifying guns and violence ... as well as blame the media for glorifying shootings of this caliber by posterizing the shooter's face all over the front page of everything, everytime it happens.
The only one to "blame" here is a deranged shooter.
We shouldn't have to measure our words to protect the lunatic fringe.
Politicians and pundits alike have been stoking these fires for a while now. We are asking for a little responsibility from them not to protect the lunatic fringe, but to protect innocent people from becoming victims of those who would act on the hatred and vitriol being spewed from what seems like all sides.
Its getting to be a bit much. This particular occurrence may have had nothing to do with politics, but it has sparked a debate about how politics are causing harm. And anyone who believes that American politics aren't causing harm to the American people is a damned fool.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Quote: And anyone who believes that American politics aren't causing harm to the American people is a damned fool.
... and you can add "Hollywood" and "media" to those lists. But since those are mostly dominated by the "left"-side of the aisle, then they can't possibly be at fault.
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