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Calif. man arrested in threats against Wash. rep
01.12.11
SEATTLE -- A California man was arrested Wednesday on a charge that he made threatening, obscene phone calls to the office of U.S. Rep. Jim McDermott last month, weeks before a gunman shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others in Arizona.
An FBI complaint unsealed in federal court said Charles Turner Habermann, 32, of Palm Springs, called the Seattle Democrat's office late Dec. 9 and early Dec. 10 and left two messages, each about four minutes long, after seeing him on television.
He began each with his name and phone number, and went on to threaten to kill the congressman - as well as his friends and family - over his opposition to extending tax cuts for the wealthy, according to transcripts recited in the complaint.
Habermann faces one count of threatening a federal official, which carries up to 10 years in prison.
Habermann also left a threatening message on the voice mail of a congresswoman listed in the criminal complaint as "C.P.," and he threatened a California assemblyman, the U.S. attorney's office said.
Willy Ritch, a spokesman for Rep. Chellie Pingree of Maine, confirmed that she was the representative referred to in the complaint. He said a threatening message had been left on her voicemail since the election, but the threat was actually directed at another member of Congress. He declined to comment further, citing the ongoing investigation.
The assemblyman is V. Manuel Perez, a Democrat who represents the Palm Springs area, said Perez spokeswoman Amy Wilson.
According to the transcript of one call to McDermott's office, Habermann said, "He thinks he can steal money from people and give it away to losers and get away with it." It continues, "I'll (expletive) hunt that guy down and I'll (expletive) get rid of him."
In the other call, Habermann allegedly said, "If he ever (expletive) around with my money, ever the (expletive) again, I'll (expletive) kill him, OK."
Seattle FBI spokesman Fred Gutt said the complaint was already being drafted before Saturday's shooting in Tucson that killed six people.
Habermann was due to appear in U.S. District Court in Riverside on Wednesday afternoon. His federal public defender, Joan Politeo, did not immediately return a call seeking comment, and a message left on Habermann's voicemail was not returned.
The FBI said agents visited Habermann on Dec. 10, and he admitted leaving the messages and identified himself as the caller when he listened to a recording of the calls. He said he'd been drinking when he made the calls but was not so drunk that he wouldn't have driven his car, the agents reported.
Habermann also told them that he never intended to hurt anyone, and that he would never do anything to jeopardize his $3 million trust fund, FBI agent Dean Giboney wrote in the complaint.
Seattle U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan said in a news release that citizens have a right to debate government officials but not threaten them.
"Those actions are intended to silence debate, not further it," she said. "They instill fear not just in the immediate victims, but in many who might hold the same views or take the same course."
Habermann also left two voicemail messages for Perez on March 23, one of which threatened to kill the California assemblyman, according to court documents. A week earlier, Habermann met with one of Perez's staffers and began ranting about the federal health care bill and how he didn't want to support immigrants and Latinos, records show.
"He seemed agitated, paranoid and couldn't keep still," said CHP Officer John Quintero, who referred to a report about the incident.
Habermann was escorted out of Perez's office, and the case, along with the threatening voicemails, was referred to the California Highway Patrol's Dignitary Protection Section, Quintero said. Habermann was never arrested.
"In this line of work we often interact with agitated people for a range of reasons," Wilson said. "Through the course of dialogue and providing service to them, you can assess how conversation is going to go. This situation escalated where we felt we needed to inform law enforcement."
Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., has also faced threats recently. One man was sentenced to a year in prison for making threatening phone calls, and another is scheduled to face trial next month on charges he waved a meat cleaver toward her and threatened to kill her during an appearance in Spokane.
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GOOD...if someone makes a threatening phone call/voice mail or sends a threatening email or makes a threatening post against elected officials or anyone for that matter... turn them in so the law can throw them in jail...about time!
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
peen...you have no clue what you are talking about, do you?...
Go back and read from the beginning before you decide to spout off.
You don't even know what the subject of this conversation is, do you?...even though I just stated it...
No Mac, I don't have a clue compared to you.
How about we allow the board to decide who has no clue and who has even half as clue??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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This isn't news. Mentally ill people frequently make threatening phone calls to politicians. I have a friend who's in the secret service, and his plate is full investigating and keeping tabs on these folks. He said Bush received the most phone calls and letters by far.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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mac lost in all of this is the fact that the left succeeded in planting the seeds in small minds that these killings are somehow linked to Sarah Palin and conservative "rhetoric"... small minds like yours and the representative from SC that I saw on the news tonight who, when asked if he was premature in blaming Palin and conservative rhetoric based on what we now know, said.. "No." What an idiot. He even made the same moronic statement you did about Ms. Giffords predicting something like this... Please show me where Ms. Giffords predicted that a mentally disturbed a-political young man, who was influenced mostly by liberal documentaries and very dark books and movies would go on a shooting spree... please show me that.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
You have a serious, serious problem with reading comprehension.
My post, tl;dr version: politicians/pundits aren't acting appropriately, stop voting for them/watching their shows
what you got: I want to bring back the USSR
No, what I said is that dissent is not unpatriotic, and that people have to take responsibility for their own actions.
Look, someone else brought up a duel as "the way it used to be". That's not all though. Politicians used to flat out libel one another. They would say anything and everything to get elected.
I'm not talking about 20 years ago, I'm talking about from Thomas Jefferson forward.
Hell, Look at some of the stuff Jefferson said ...
http://www.foundersquotes.com/Thomas_Jef...ch-a-rebellion/
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."
That was in 1787, after the Revolution.
He also said:
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/thomas+jefferson
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere.
One man's "hate" is another man's impassioned plea for liberty. I mean, can you imagine a commentator (especially a conservative one) saying such a thing today? Good God, there would be protests a mile long ... MSNBC would hold vigils ........ and many politicians would use that quote as election day fodder.
Lincoln stated that the people have the right to a government of their choosing, and further have the right to any measures, up to and including revolution to get that government.
When you curtail free speech, you curtail what made this country great. One man's "violent rhetoric" is another man's reasonable response to a sheeplike mentality of those around him.
Back to political speech ...... someone also stated how many military terms have found their ways into politics, and as such they also find their way into political discourse. That doesn't mean that we literally attack a "targetted" candidate any more than we duck and cover when the QB throws a bomb, or duck for fear of getting sprayed in fresh blood when a RB slashes his way through the defense.
People always have the right to support or oppose candidates based on what they say and do. They also have the right to support or oppose commentary and commentators based on their words and actions. The dangers lies in a political attempt to end those words, and to silence that type of protest.
I have no problem if someone chooses for themself to turn off a political commentator because of his/her speech or opinions. I do have a problem when other tell people they should because what they say is improper and immoral ..... or worse, that they must.
Hell, I have heard plenty of liberal commentators make some of the most hateful comments imaginable. I want them kept wround to be constantly used as a bad example. Rather than silencing them, I want them extolled and broadcast widely. Let the people hear, and decide for themselves.
In the end, that always works best anyway.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why are people screaming like they are at pep rally about loving Obama and clapping like this is the state of the union at everything Obama says at a memorial service? 
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You are wrong ytown, we all need to get along and all political debate must begin with a group hug.
yebat' Putin
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Why are people screaming like they are at pep rally about loving Obama and clapping like this is the state of the union at everything Obama says at a memorial service?
The standing and cheering is getting pretty annoying.
Can't help but get emotional when Obama said Giffords opened her eyes today.
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I can understand it at some parts, but the beginning where people were screaming "I love you Obama" and then clapping at every single line just seemed awkward.
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Why are people screaming like they are at pep rally about loving Obama and clapping like this is the state of the union at everything Obama says at a memorial service?
Because they have a complete lack of respect. What I heard sounded like young adults but I didn't see the crowd. What kind of mixture is there?
#gmstrong
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It sounds like someone set this up to be a pep rally. It isn't Obama's fault but maybe his people should have set it up differently.
#gmstrong
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It's a very good speech so far.
yebat' Putin
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Yes, it is. The part about the little girl was very touching.
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The whole speech was good, I think he handled the "rhetoric" part well. I was a bit disappointed in the, as you put it, pep rally feel... it didn't feel much like a memorial service..
yebat' Putin
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Maybe it is just me but . . . Quote:
A California man was arrested Wednesday . . . He began each with his name and phone number, and went on to threaten to kill the congressman - as well as his friends and family - over his opposition to extending tax cuts for the wealthy
that cracked me up in an odd sort of way. He might as well have just used the pay phone at the police precinct.
I realize it does not take a genius to pull a trigger but . . . that is the kind of story you can't make up.
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Why was he giving a speech like that at a memorial service anyway?
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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8uote:
This is a Republican, worried about the safety of his family...fearing the Arizona Tea Party.
B.S. Flag thrown on this one. 15 yards and loss of down from the spot of the foul. The journalist even throws in 'apparent' tea party in there too.
So, I called my friend in AZ to see if there was anything more to this story since he follows politics. He pointed me to a few places and notes that these 4 are the most despicable of politicians as they are using a tragedy to save face. How? Here we go:
This whole thing started with Miller and Dickinson and what went on with the elections.
Dickinson (one of the ones who supposedly resigned) was ineligible to be on the ballot, so he legally was never elected.
After it was revealed that Dickinson and another “elected” state committeeman nominee were ineligible to run for office, Miller decided he was going to appoint the two state committeemen “vacancies.” The legality of the system is that whoever had the most legal ballots wins. So, those were not vacancies and were not up for appointment. The election was still valid and just any votes for those ineligible candidates should have been forfeited.
The two people who had the most legal votes won. But he either blatantly lied and didn't follow the rules, or he didn't know them. He has since been called out on that fact and he may have been ousted and was expected to resign ahead of it.
This stuff he's saying now on the heels of the tragedy is a horrible misdirection play that he thinks is saving his face but is just horrendously stupid.
Here's the full history with the full facts:
http://historyofourfuture.wordpress.com/
#gmstrong
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So, mac appears to be a steadfast supporter of crooked republicans as well as all democrats. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I'm not saying we must stop voting for them/watching them/donating money to them or what have you, I'm saying if we want them to stop doing things we disapprove of then that is the course of action that will be required. We have a choice to do or not to do these things, and unfortunately I think we both know what choice will be made.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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And, in the end, people will decide which voices resonate, and which do not.
I would rather have people arguing and debating the issues that are important to them than to take to the streets with arms, ready to storm Congress.
Many people also listen to shock type media and personalities for amusement, or as a safe outlet for their own frustrations.
We can have verbal dissent, disagreement, and even arguments.
We can instead have all of that oppressed and suppressed.
Or we can have revolution.
Those often seem to be the 3 choices that people have had all throughout the course of human history.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
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This is a Republican, worried about the safety of his family...fearing the Arizona Tea Party.
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B.S. Flag thrown on this one. 15 yards and loss of down from the spot of the foul. The journalist even throws in 'apparent' tea party in there too.
So, I called my friend in AZ to see if there was anything more to this story since he follows politics. He pointed me to a few places and notes that these 4 are the most despicable of politicians as they are using a tragedy to save face.
nolo...so this justifies the "threats"?
BTW...the article I posted speaks to the issue you outline above...
The facts remain the same...a GOP Rep "felt threatened" enough by the Tea Party to quit after being duly elected to office.
This could be an indication that the political climate in AZ is worse than we realize.
IMO, what Miller should have done is document all the threats and turned them over to the FBI...time to lock up those who resort to threats of violence.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
It sounds like someone set this up to be a pep rally. It isn't Obama's fault but maybe his people should have set it up differently.
The speech was given at University of Arizona..a gymnasium or auditorium.
The cheering, which I felt was inappropriate for a memorial service, was likely coming from students.
...students who either forgot what the event was, a memorial service...or didn't know how to act because they had never been to a memorial service.
While the cheering was annoying, what was said by all the speakers was not lost in the moment...all did a good job trying to heal and lift the spirits in the wake of tragedy.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Quote:
It sounds like someone set this up to be a pep rally. It isn't Obama's fault but maybe his people should have set it up differently.
The speech was given at University of Arizona..a gymnasium or auditorium.
The cheering, which I felt was inappropriate for a memorial service, was likely coming from students.
...students who either forgot what the event was, a memorial service...or didn't know how to act because they had never been to a memorial service.
While the cheering was annoying, what was said by all the speakers was not lost in the moment...all did a good job trying to heal and lift the spirits in the wake of tragedy.
From all accounts I have heard Obama did a very good job. I had to turn it off because I was sickened by the pep rally atmosphere.
#gmstrong
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1st String
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the pep rally felling was kinda weird.
but at least they are trying to stay a little positive in the aftermath. unity, staying strong etc.
then there are others from both sides who must make it political.
look at this board. this thread turned into another 5 page political thread. you guys should just start a new thread called "more political bickering thread".
leave this thread to the memory of those lost. take political motives to another thread.
there once was a little nine yr old girl named Christina, born sept 11 2001. her neighbor took her to meet a politician because of her interest in politics.
her funeral is today, just in case anyone cared
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Quote:
leave this thread to the memory of those lost. take political motives to another thread.
Amen!
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Obama did a fine job.. might have been a bit long for a memorial address but his tone was right and he kept it above the fray. He even appeared uncomfortable with some of the more raucus applause and continued to talk right through it...
Not sure what the message was from some of the other speakers... Especially odd that the very first words from the very first speaker were "I'm Mexican... " What the heck was that about if not meant to be political?
As for the overall atmosphere, the only thing missing was the mascot with the t-shirt gun.. (they did give away t-shirts but they didn't want to be so tacky as to have them shot into the crowd I guess)...
Don't have a single bad word to say about Obama in this but I think the overall event planners missed the mark a bit...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
her funeral is today, just in case anyone cared
I have cried over her a number of times and continue to think of her and her family daily.
Just because other thoughts have been shared about how this has been handled politically do not dim the feelings for me or anyone else on here.
Rather presumptuous and condescending for you to infer otherwise.
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Very glad to hear that Rep. Giffords appears to be making progress daily. She's sitting up, has movement in all extremeties, is communicating with friends and family... God bless her.
yebat' Putin
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I understand that Palin did a decent job on the subject herself.. Actually, I haven't listened to Obama or Palin so, I don"t know first hand about either.
But it really appears that all the politics are being set aside. I'm really glad of that.
I'm so sad about that little girl,, this one made me tear up a bit.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70F0R020110116TUCSON, Arizona | Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:10am EST TUCSON, Arizona (Reuters) - A victim of last week's Arizona shooting rampage was arrested on Saturday and ordered to undergo a mental evaluation after threatening a Tea Party leader during the taping of a television show, police said. James Eric Fuller, 63, who was shot in the knee on January 8, objected to comments from Trent Humphries, leader of the conservative Tea Party political movement in Tucson, during taping of a town hall meeting organized for an ABC News special program on the aftermath of the shootings. Fuller stood, turned and snapped a picture of Humphries, said Pima County Sheriff's Department spokesman Jason Ogan. "Then he yelled at him and said, 'You're dead,'" Ogan said. Deputies arrested Fuller on charges of disorderly conduct and making a threat. After consultation with a doctor, deputies then took Fuller to a local hospital for an involuntary evaluation, Ogan said. The charges will be filed with the Pima County Attorney's Office, he said. Fuller was one of 13 people injured when a gunman opened fire during a gathering of constituents of U.S. congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Six people died, including a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl, and the Democratic congresswoman remains in critical condition in a Tucson hospital. A 22-year-old college dropout, Jared Lee Loughner, was arrested for the shootings. He is charged with five federal counts, including the murder of a federal judge and the attempted assassination of Giffords. The rampage sparked a national debate about whether the vitriolic tone of partisan politics in the United States in recent years had contributed to the suspect's motivations.
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Dang,, just when you think politics is out of the discusson,, this comes up.
Anyone know what the comments humphries made were about?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Dang,, just when you think politics is out of the discusson,, this comes up.
Anyone know what the comments humphries made were about?
Does it matter what the comments were about?
Threatening to kill someone is unacceptable. Period.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Dang,, just when you think politics is out of the discusson,, this comes up.
Anyone know what the comments humphries made were about?
Does it matter what the comments were about?
Threatening to kill someone is unacceptable. Period.
You are right of course, I was just wondering what it was he said....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You can't threaten a guy like that but I'm like Daman, I'd like to know what set him off.
yebat' Putin
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Well, it happened during a taping of an ABC News special ..... and I haven't seen anything plastered all over the news .... so I would guess that he didn't say much.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
You are right of course, I was just wondering what it was he said....
Daman...well, the guy just took two bullets a week ago and from what I have read, he's not fond of the tea party. It would not be a surprise if he is diagnosed with PTSD along with some other issues.
They did the right thing by filing charges against him so they evaluate him and get him help if needed. I wonder why he was even at this event?
This is the way it should be from now on..no more getting away with threats of any kind. Doesn't matter if it's on the internet, TV, radio, in print or spoken...anyone inciting violence or threatening another person should be turned in, arrested, evaluated and treated if necessary.
It seems to be the only way to force those who are "sick" to get the treatment they need. Hopefully it won't take another mass killing by a mentally ill individual before everyone understands, it's the only way to help those who could be on the edge.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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Maybe he just watched the news and read the papers. They all pretty much blamed Tea Party members for the attack. He is just trying to get revenge.....
In all seriousness this man should be getting help. I would imagine he is very distraught over the shootings and is just lashing out.
#gmstrong
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Watched the 60 Minutes expose on him tonight. Dude's definitely not right in the head and has been obsessed with Giffords for a while now.
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Pretty interesting piece on 60 Minutes tonight. They did say that most of these attacks do not happen any where near how we try to rationalize them or the attackers thoughts and most of these attacks against high profile leaders are not politically motivated.
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That I would believe.
John Hinkley Jr. shot Reagan over Jodie Foster.
Sirhan Sirhan claimed that he did not bear any ill will towards Robert Kennedy.
I'm sure there are tons of other examples.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Arizona Congresswoman was shot at
Public Event in Tuscon
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