DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Shurmur's Coordinators?

OK, different from what was originally reported by those who generally have pretty well placed sources within the team, and who were among the 1st to report the Shurmur hiring.

About Sean McDermott...and it kind of makes me nervous about Heckert's defensive talent evaluation. Hopefully that's just what happened with Reid having final say on personnel and not on Heckert.


http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20...op_defense.html


Reid failed to give McDermott the players to build a top defense


By Jeff McLane
There's a name for it now - "The Andy Reid Reversal."

On Monday, Sean McDermott was coming back as defensive coordinator, the Eagles' head coach said. Three days later, he sat down with McDermott and cut him loose.

Still, Reid's Monday praise of McDermott shouldn't have come as a surprise. For one, he isn't accustomed to immediately shoving his assistants or players into oncoming traffic - unless, of course, they're David Akers.

But Reid's faux support of McDermott more likely had something to do with the big picture.

The much bigger picture.

If Reid were to have slammed the 36-year-old on Monday after the Eagles' playoff loss to Green Bay, then he would have been indicting himself for not giving McDermott the necessary tools to build a dominating defense.

As reasonable as it is to question McDermott and his scheme, a fair assessment would have to include an evaluation of personnel. And injuries aside, the workers were average, at best.

Was it McDermott's fault that the Eagles did almost nothing to replace Sheldon Brown at right cornerback? Was it his fault that top draft picks - defensive end Brandon Graham and safety Nate Allen - suffered season-ending injuries in early December?

Was it McDermott who traded for the oblivious Ernie Sims and deemed him the starter at weakside linebacker? That's like giving a carpenter a chainsaw and telling him to get to work.

Stocking the defensive side of the ball with game-changing talent has long been a problem for Reid and his chief evaluators - current and former general managers Howie Roseman and Tom Heckert.

Naturally, the offensive-minded Reid has done a better job drafting and acquiring pieces to enact his West Coast offense. From 2007 to '09, wide receivers DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin, running back LeSean McCoy, tight end Brent Celek, and quarterback Kevin Kolb have come via the draft. All but Celek were selected in the first two rounds.

Over that same period, the Eagles drafted defensive ends Victor Abiamiri and Bryan Smith, defensive tackle Trevor Laws, and linebacker Stewart Bradley in either the second or third rounds.

The injury-plagued Abiamiri has played in just 29 games over four seasons. Smith was cut after one year. Laws is only a part-timer. And Bradley probably lost his middle-linebacker spot for next season.

In the period before, 2003 to '06, Reid used three first-round picks to strengthen the defensive line. Tackles Brodrick Bunkley and Mike Patterson have anchored the middle for half a decade, but they haven't lived up to their lofty draft positions. And the less said about end Jerome McDougle, the better.

The 2010 draft was supposed to make up for some of these errors. The Eagles selected 13 players, nine of whom played on defense. It is far too early to say for certain if Graham or Allen are busts or future Pro Bowl players. But neither made an immediate impact as other high draft picks did this season.

As inaccurate as Reid and his staff have been in drafting defensive prospects, their track record through free agency and trades has been just as dubious. Only cornerback Asante Samuel can be labeled a true success story. The rest of the acquisitions either fall into the OK category (defensive end Darren Howard and linebacker Takeo Spikes) or the swing-and-a-miss kind (end Jevon Kearse and Sims).

The Eagles are certainly not alone in this regard. The failure rate among NFL teams in player evaluation is much greater than the success rate. If anything, Reid and his scouting team have done a much better job plucking players out of anonymity or out of the lower regions of the draft.

Safety Quintin Mikell, defensive end Juqua Parker, and cornerback Joselio Hanson were undrafted free agents who have given the Eagles a number of serviceable seasons. And low draft picks like defensive end Trent Cole, linebacker Moise Fokou, and possibly 2010 seventh-round linebacker Jamar Chaney and safety Kurt Coleman are more talented than their draft spots would suggest.

But Reid, for the most part, has failed to amply replace the defensive talent that was here before he arrived. Arguably, the best safety (Brian Dawkins), cornerback (Troy Vincent), linebacker (Jeremiah Trotter), and defensive end (Hugh Douglas) of the Reid era were acquired before he became head coach.

And he doesn't have the late Jim Johnson to mask his personnel blunders anymore.

And that may be where one could fault McDermott. He didn't get the most out of his mediocre players.

But Reid would never say such a thing. That would be admitting that McDermott didn't have the players to work with in the first place.

Well let's hope Heckert has more defensive success here. Not bad already with Joe and Ward. But like me being right about something, let's hope it's more than once in a blue moon.

A good DC or assistant coach may provide some valuable input but right now we don't actually have an abundance of defensive-minded organizational people of whom to contribute. I am glad Holmgren didn't drag out the Shurmur hiring until all the recently fired defensive coaches already found employment as happened with RAC, having to wait until the Superbowl was over to find his staff. By then the pickings were slim for all coaches.

Conversely, with all the firings there are also a lot of job openings so it's kind of a sellers market. New, experienced, bigger name head coaches likely will draw the most interest from available, experienced defensive coaches. We got nothing on our side there except the all-for-one-one-for-all organization and, of course, Mike Holmgren. But he ain't coaching.

I know little to nothing about McDermott and an equal amount about most of the others.

I know little to nothing about McDermott and an equal amount about most of the others.



I think it is safe to say that applies to nearly everybody on the board.

Most just think they know.

NRTU Peen,

While watching the Packers/Falcons game last night I was thinking the same thing about Greene. He knows the AFC North, has been a LB coach under two GREAT DC in Capers and Lebuae (sp?), and he runs the 3-4.

I know several of you have stated that it would not be that big a deal shifting from the 3-4 to the 4-3, but I just can't beleive that. We allready have some changes coming on the offensive philosophy (much needed), and I just hesitate to blow up our defense at the same time.

I don't know if Greene is the answer, but I do know that I would prefer to stay in the 3-4, and therefore a DC that preaches the 3-4 would be preferable to me.

just my humble $0.02

well it seems to me they need to hurry up and find out what defense they are running, so they can get their big boards together for the draft, and start targeting some guys.

that does bring up an interesting question. When the scouts are out there during the college season- are they looking for guys that could transition into the 3-4? I would kind of think so?? So, what does that mean for finding those late round picks?? Are we behind the scouting process if a change is made to the 4-3?

And I don't want to resort to stats to comprise the basis for my opinion on them either

As with players, there are so many variables to take into consideration of how those stats were accumulated that those stats don't even come close to evaluating the talent level of a coach.

Typically, the better the stats the better the circumstances surrounding a player or coach. Sure, it could be that a guy just can't play or another just isn't a good coach but was given a chance and sucked at it. But stats are not a basis for judging.

Unfortunately, not being in the circle of the NFL (i.e. knowing people and knowing people who know people nor being in on the interview process), and/or never having seen a player play, all we as fans have to go on is stats. But that's the least reliable of all the factors that determine a persons ability.

Not a surprise but...

Rob Ryan is your new Cowboys defensive coordinator

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 16, 2011, 10:17 AM EST

Like the last two single tipsy patrons at a bar when the lights flip on, Rob Ryan and the Cowboys needed each other.

The first three guys considered for the Cowboys defensive coordinator job took jobs elsewhere. Ryan wasn’t going to be brought back to Cleveland, and there weren’t many coordinator jobs still available.

Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that Ryan and the Cowboys consummated their flirtation Sunday when Ryan agreed to be the team’s defensive coordinator. It may wind up being a nice fit for both sides.

The Cowboys get continuity on defense. Ryan has experience running an attacking 3-4 defense and there is more talent in Dallas than he had in Cleveland. Coaching in Dallas will give Ryan a nice stage to build his profile as he tries to become a head coach in the league.


Link

I would have to say its a safe bet that our scouting staff knows exactly what they are looking for. And have since last year. Our high D draft picks were all backfield making them safe for any D.
And with the entire front office now being 4-3 guys I see little chance at all that they are going to stray away from what they know.
The 4-3 is just as ingrained in Holmgren as the WCO is. And the Czar will be building this empire to his vision.

I wonder what will happen if we wind up getting this guy.

Grossi claims that schedule and players don't matter, and that winning coaches win no matter what they have on the field as far as players.......

I don't think it's a complete indictment of Heckert because the eagles are run by Reid, much like the Pats are really run by Belichick. At least that's my impression.

I honestly believe that's one of the reasons that heckert came here for basically, a lateral move. At least title wise..

After one off season,, I think he's added some talent. Fujita, Gocong, Haden and Ward. Not bad really.. All had a reasonble impact. Can't wait to see what next off season brings.,

word of caution.., with all expected changes, this is going to be a tough year..

Looks like we still could be getting Dick Jauron...

Eagles taking a peek at Jim Mora Jr.

link

What does that say about Jauron then? or Mora at that?

I'm not exactly a fan of Jaurons either.

I'm totally not a fan of Jauron. Whomever is was people were mentioning that played for LeBeau, and worked for him as well as Capers... now THAT sounds like someone we could use.

Heck, I'd be on board with bringing in Singletary as a DC... at least we know we'd heavily target DLine and LB then.

Singletary's going to Minny.

How did this go from "The Browns are Hiring McCoy from Denver and Juron from Philly"

To absolutely nothing? Do we never have a backup plan?

Green Bay runs a 3-4.

I actually just heard on the Radio (so no official link) that The Browns are expected to meet with Dave WannStache (Wannstedt) formely of Pitt this week for one of their assistant positions, though it wasn't clear that it would specifically be for a coordinator position.

Here's at least one link which also cites ESPN's Adam Schefter on the development.

http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=691620-browns-will-speak-with-dave-wannstedt

Wannstedt envokes the "Meh" emotion.

I don't think there's a DC out there that if we (could of) got him that I'd be excited about.

Jauron, More Jr., Wannstedt, it's all Meh.

Can't wait to see what Ryan does with Demarcus Ware...

Can everybody not wanting Wannstache, Jauron &/or Mora please elaborate? Is it ONLY because they weren't successful as head coaches? Not nit-picking, just wondering why . . .

I actually would prefer an older coach with head coaching experience. Just one more guy who *as long as he can accept his role* can add a LOT to the overall team experience. The only reason I wouldn't want someone is because they might try to take on the show and not realize they aren't in control ...

Someone help me out here, wasn't Wannestedt the guy that took over for Butch Davis after he left Dallas to become the Hurricanes HC... And didn't Wannestedt win a SB as a DC?

I"m almost positive that's true?

It is, indeed, true.

But Davis took over for Wannstedt when he was hired by the Bears to be head coach.

He also won a National Championship while defensive coordinator at "The U".

Wannstedt was their DC from 1989-1992. They won the Super Bowl in 1992.

I got a hell of a lot of respect for Wannsted for the way that Pitt defense plays. They play hard and fast but a very disciplined group. He would be a great hire.

Purp, the guy that we were referring to is Kevin Greene, currently LB coach for the Packers. He coached for 7 yrs. under Lebau and the last 2 years under Dom Capers, all in the 3-4.

Although I must admit that Wannstedt intigues me as well.

I do not want Jauron.

jc

What about Mike Nolen? I think he is available. He had a down year with the Broncos as their DC but I always felt the Broncos were too small on defense and always wore out as the year went on. But he did great when he was DC of the Ravens. He also has HC experience. Only problem is that he runs a 3-4 which I am fine with but it seems that Holmgren/Shurmur want a 4-3.