DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Shurmur's Coordinators?

Well truth be told (and it's just my opinion remember) ... he probably should. But he is what we have and he isn't exactly all bad. We could have Al Davis, Dan Snyder or Mike Brown ...

Lerner has his advantages. He isn't an embarrassment to us, he has deep pockets, and (at least I believe) that he wants to get this thing done right. I think after a few seasons he realized he wasnt the guy for the job and when he couldn't get it right he brought in the guy to do it.

If Holmgren can fix this place, all will be ok. If not .. it's either a reboot or a new owner or whatever. Don't get me wrong .. I'm not drinking the Kool-aide yet .. but Holmgren has been on the job for about 1 full year now. We have enough to worry about with roster turnover and who wins this weekend to be worrying about the owner right now

My "mantra" is not "My guy is gone so the new guy can't possibly be as good (or God forbid, better)." ...... it is that if we make a change, it should be a clear upgrade.

I look at Shurmur's background and don't see the leadership or successful results I would want to see from an assistant coach/coordinator. I don't see Shurmur as a clear upgrade. You do. I sure as hell hope that you're right, because that's a much, much better outcome for this team than changing coaches again in 2 or 3 years. That doesn't mean that I have to slip on the ether mask and breathe deeply though........

You say that we should just trust blindly ..... I'm over that.


I also have my own opinion about Holmgren. He said that he was going to do an exhaustive evaluation of the season and coach following the season.

That took from 4PM Sunday to 1 PM Monday. (or whatever time he made the announcement that he had fired mangini) That's hardly an exhaustive review of the year, team, and coaches. That is either a pre-determined outcome, or a pathetic job reviewing the year.

Personally, I think that Holmgren looked at last year and realized that none of his forer cronies were going to be williing to take on a rebuilding project the size of this one. He then looked at the progress that had been made last year, and thought that one of his guys would now be willing to jump into the water. He made the immediate move, rather than a careful evaluation of the coach/team/season as he had promised ...... and fired Mangini hoping that he could plug in one of his guys.

Then all of his guys said "No Thanks Mike". The Browns were, as Holmgren said, in every game this year. They were a play or player away in almost every game. Mangini got a 9 hour post season evaluation. It's a joke. Why would an established coach want to put themself into that situation, even if they know the President.

So ..... then we go and get a guy who coordinated an offense that was every bit as "inept" as ours despite them starting the same QB all year long, and them playing a much, much easier schedule. (with apologies to Grossi, who, of course, is right when he says that schedules, and the teams you play, don't matter)

You'll excuse me if I don;t see this as an honest process, or as an upgrade.


I hope you're right, and this time things work, I would guess that it won't. We would have expected 8-9 wins if Mangini had stayed, and the team had added a playmeker here or there. I suspect that we won't see that same expectation with a rebuild. Oh ... and yes, this will be yet another rebuild ........ again ..........

I'm sorry, but that doesn't thrill or excite me in the least.


Like I said .... I would love to be wrong ..... and I will stand up and say I was wrong if I should be. (like I did about Robiske) I don't think that I will be though. I suspect that we will be back here after 2 or 3 years .... looking for a new head coach .... because we hired a weak head coach ..... then split his duties by allowing him to be his own playcaller ...... and then possibly failing to find a strong defensive coordinator to continue the growth shown by the defense last year. (of course, we're tearing that down too, so kiss that #14 scoring defense goodbye ....... just below 7 of the final 8 playoff teams. Seattle didn't make that ranking, but New Orleans did)

That's an honest viewpoint YTown .. but dont forget some stats can be deceiving. If you and me get into a 50 point each shootout ... the offense looks good but the defense suffers ... but if we run the ball a ton and eat up the clock every game .. our offense looks horrible and our scoring defense looks great.

Other than that I have nothing to necessarily refute what you say .. I guess I'm just confused. Half of the board (from what it seems like) complains that we aren't going after young coordinators instead of some old re-treads ... but then others seem to be upset that our new head coach is too young and we should have gone after some old retread.

I suppose because we haven't hit free agency, the draft, OTAs and mini camps ... it definitely seems like there is a lot left to do.

Do you really think the best coaches would have wanted to come here? Why? We are what we are. A team that is towards the bottom. But the reason that any head coach is where he is in terms of being established is because he actually built his way up and established himself.

I think ..... and have no definitive reason for thinking this except for a strong gut feeling ... (sorry, but Holmgren used it so that opened it back up for common usage) that Holmgren NEVER expected that NOT ONE of his preferred candidates wanted to coach last year, but that either one of them, or perhaps himself, would want to this year. Then he opened up the job ..... and everyone ran for cover like the mice when the lights come on. "Thanks, but No, I'm happy where I'm at" became the quote of most common refrain when it came to established guys Holmgren might look at.

I do hope that Shurmur works out. God I hope he does. I am tired of watching the team hover around a low level ..... sometimes being blown up because they flounder .... sometimes because they fail ..... and last year because ... well, I guess that we just didn't improve "enough".

If this is the new standard ..... that you (head coach) just didn't improve enough within 2 years ..... then I wonder how any coach can win under those circumstances.

Browns interview Musgrave.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/01/cleveland_browns_interviewing.html

Cleveland Browns interview Falcons QB coach Bill Musgrave for offensive coordinator
Published: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 9:39 PM Updated: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 9:57 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns interviewed Atlanta Falcons assistant head coach/quarterbacks coach Bill Musgrave for their offensive coordinator vacancy on Tuesday, a league source confirmed.

Eagles secondary coach and senior assistant Dick Jauron also arrive in town Tuesday and will interview Wednesday for the defensive coordinator position, a source told The Plain Dealer. Fellow former NFL head coach Dave Wannstedt will interview Thursday for the defensive coordinator job.

Musgrave was scheduled to arrive in Minnesota Tuesday night to interview for the Vikings' coordinator position, according to reports by ESPN and NFL Network.

Musgrave, 43, brings 14 years experience as an NFL assistant, including coordinator stints with the Eagles (1998), Panthers (2000) and Jaguars (2003-2004). An advocate of the West Coast offense, he learned the scheme from playing quarterback for the 49ers from 1991-94 under head coach George Seifert and offensive coordinator Mike Shanahan.

The Falcons quarterbacks coach since 2006, Musgrave is credited with guiding Pro Bowl quarterback Matt Ryan in his first three NFL seasons. Ryan, who committed three turnovers in a 48-21 divisional round loss to the Packers on Sunday, has guided the Falcons to a 33-13 mark, including 13-3 in 2010.

A first-round pick out of Boston College in 2008, Ryan threw 28 touchdowns and only nine interceptions this season, earning a 91.0 rating -- ninth-best in the NFL.

After last season, Falcons coach Mike Smith added the title of "assistant head coach" to Musgrave's duties. He hoped to keep his staff together this season, but "reluctantly" granted the Browns and Vikings permission to interview him, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported.

Musgrave is viewed as potential successor to Falcons offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey, who interviewed for the Browns' head coach job.

Musgrave would replace Brian Daboll, who has moved on to the Dolphins. In Cleveland, Musgrave would most likely not call plays, at least in the early going. New coach Pat Shurmur has said he'll handle that chore.

Musgrave also drew interest from the Rams, who hired Josh McDaniels to replace Shurmur.

Two offensive assistants with ties to the Browns staff, Ravens' quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn and Rams receivers coach Nolan Cromwell, are not coordinator candidates at this time.
In other coaching news, Browns quarterbacks coach Carl Smith might be up for an assistant position in Seattle.

Browns interviewing Jauron Tuesday and Wednesday


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/01/cleveland_browns_will_intervie_4.html

Cleveland Browns will interview Eagles' Dick Jauron today and Wednesday, source says
Published: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 1:13 PM Updated: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 4:50 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns will interview Eagles senior assistant and secondary coach Dick Jauron for their defensive coordinator position today and Wednesday, a league source told The Plain Dealer.

Jauron, former coach of the Bears and Bills, is one of two former NFL head coaches and coordinators to interview for the job this week. The other is former Bears and Dolphins coach Dave Wannstedt.

Jauron is also candidate for the Eagles' coordinator job, along with Jim Mora and former Rams coordinator Bill Davis. Jauron might also draw interest from other teams.

On the offensive side, two assistants with ties to either head coach Pat Shurmur or Browns President Mike Holmgren or both -- Ravens' quarterbacks Jim Zorn and Rams receivers Nolan Cromwell, are not coordinator candidates at this time, a league source said.

At least something is happening. It almost seemed like we were stuck in the mud.

OMG yes.....we've had a new HC for a week now by golly let's hire some people right away!!!!

I guess in the process here, maybe I am trusting "blindly" because I have no choice. Do not know the men, the Walrus, Lerner or anyone making decisions. Whether I care mightily, expound at length, or never utter a syllable, the results of decisions will occur. Is there an alternative to blindly? Like I am from Missouri; show me? Or not judging until something happens? I do trust the FO because I believe many of their moves DO represent upgrades. And we ARE choosing from leftover types as most are candidates staying away or staying with their teams. I think we may be closer healthy than some are giving us credit for. Hell-o, if we score more and tackle, next year could be astoundingly better.

I'm encouraged to hear Musgrave is interviewing albeit somewhat discouraged that I'm being told that Shurm will be calling plays initially. I wonder what new OC is going to want that situation.. being transistioned to the job. Isn't he going to wonder if he's got a promotion or a demotion and could he be demoted at any whim of the HC?

Bah..

Looks like Musgrave is on board...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81...or-ocoordinator

Musgrave expected to be Browns' pick for O-coordinator
By Jason La Canfora NFL Network
NFL Network Insider
Published: Jan. 19, 2011 at 11:01 a.m.

Other general managers around the NFL expect the Cleveland Browns to hire Bill Musgrave shortly for their offensive coordinator job.

Several teams that are interested in Musgrave, who was the Atlanta Falcons' quarterbacks coach the past five seasons and their assistant head coach this past season, do not believe they will get a chance to talk to him at this point.

Musgrave interviewed in Cleveland on Tuesday, and, according to the other general managers, a deal is close enough to the point where they do not expect Musgrave to interview elsewhere. Musgrave has vast experience in the west coast offense and has helped several quarterbacks thrive.

He has served as a quarterbacks coach for the Washington Redskins (2005) and Oakland Raiders (1997), and he has been an offensive coordinator at several stops, including the Jacksonville Jaguars (2003-04), Carolina Panthers (2000) and Philadelphia Eagles (1998). He also was the offensive coordinator at the University of Virginia for two seasons (2001-02).

New Browns head coach Pat Shurmur will be involved in play-calling, but the Browns' new offensive coordinator will have some of those duties as well. Quarterback development will be paramount in the job description.

i'm okay with Musgrave as OC...

I think if our staff ends up with Musgrave as OC and Wannstedt as DC i'll be more optimistic than i have been for recent days. I dont trust Jauron in the AFCN. he's a defensive backs coach at heart and in the AFCN you have to be able to stop the run and that has been a weakness of his at every stop. That isnt good.

I just wish we didnt have to rebuild again

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I just wish we didnt have to rebuild again

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What do you call what Mangini was doing?

We are not rebuilding, we are building. Most of the players on this team are stop-gaps at best.

i guess...just the philosophy change worries me

Most of the players on the 2010 won't be on the team in 2012 anyway so it really won't be that big of a change.

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I really hate the idea of a rookie head coach calling his own plays.

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This is from Chris Mortensen's ESPN.com chat:

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Geoff (MN)
Reports are that Musgrave will be OC in Cleveland. Where does Minnesota turn now for OC?

Chris Mortensen
I believe the Browns have the advantage over the Vikings if Musgrave chooses to leave Atlanta. That's because of his relationship to Mike Holmgren and Pat Shurmur. Even though Shurmur will call plays in the beginning he will surrender those duties to Musgrave fairly quickly if they get this deal done. For the Vikings, sticking with Bevell wouldn;t be a bad thing but the Seahawks could nab him. Otherwise, I haven't heard on other candidates - well, I've heard but I haven't nailed it down.

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thats fair...u think it would be the same even if we had mangini?

Shurmur did say that he would call the plays initially. That left room for him to turn that duty over sooner than later.

Right.

I was just pointing that out.

That's a pretty good point ... regardless of our offensive (and I mean offensive) philosophy .. we are still going to be in the neighborhood of o line help, wr help, and possibly a rb/fb (which we might currently have or be able to find in the later rounds of a draft .. as in a 6th rounder to an undrafted player if need be).

Defensively we have only just begun revamping .. and I'm starting to think more and more that Heckert had planned the draft and the season so that whether we kept mangini and the 3-4 or went to a new 4-3 and coach combo we would be fine. You need corners and safeties in both systems though, and it's good to see we started that process.

That could be part of the reason we ignored the d-line (why would we draft a prototype first or second round 3-4 backer or dlinemen just to switch from the 3-4 to 4-3 ... ) and when you add in the Jayme Mitchell trade ... he might be an opening day starter for us next year just because of his experience in the 4-3.

Yeah, ever since dude posted the same article you did to start the Musgrave thread it's become a trend. lol

didn't want to hire a coordinator with no experience calling plays, which I don't think he does.

but it is what it is. Players just have to execute.

Musgrave has been an offensive coordinator two times in the NFL (Panthers, Jaguars) and one time in college (Virginia).

So I think it's safe to say he has called plays before.

Musgrave is a fine choice.

I would have preferred McCoy, but Musgrave is definitely a quality coach.

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You say that we should just trust blindly ..... I'm over that.

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No, you said I said that. I didn't. What I have said all along is that after carefully considering the qualifications of the men making the coaching choices I have decided to trust in their judgment. Not my problem if you can't or won't.

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That took from 4PM Sunday to 1 PM Monday. (or whatever time he made the announcement that he had fired mangini) That's hardly an exhaustive review of the year, team, and coaches. That is either a pre-determined outcome, or a pathetic job reviewing the year.

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You have no idea how long Holmgren either considered firing Mangini or how long he considered hiring Shurmur. You're just guessing with the edge given to the time line that will suit your agenda. He could have been considering both since mid season or earlier.

The rest of your post was just a slightly retooled basic version of your standard, "Oh, woe is Eric. He got screwed by that moron Holmgren who was so dumb that he never checked to see if his "cronies" would come to Cleveland. Now we're stuck with the leftover trash of the NFL. Eric was the greatest thing since sliced bread" Sound about right?

That version of things is just this side of laughable. Period.

Look, you and a couple of YOUR cronies have been moaning about this for 3 weeks now, give or take, and honestly, it's getting old. No matter how many times you say he was a great coach Mangini's record says he wasn't. Bill Parcells said one time that, " If you want to win you can't be afraid to lose". Eric Mangini was afraid to lose and it cost him. Maybe permanently, as far as HC jobs go.

I am not afraid of the future, as you and some others appear to be. There will be bumps along the way but we can (and I believe will) survive them. I look at the next few years as our run-up to being full time championship contenders.

I'm truly sorry you don't.

Not to worry, though. There will be plenty of beer on the bandwagon when you're ready to climb back on.

I am going to put my trust and faith in Holmgren that he has a plan and knows what he is doing. With that said, I can't help but think that he fired Mangini with absolutely no plan or fallbacks in place. To Me it just seems like this isn't going the way he planned. To say the least I am not enamored with the sounds of the Staff possibilities. I hope some new names pop up, maybe from some of the teams left...I would not mind raiding any of the staffs left. Green Bay runs the purest form of the West Coast Offense. I also found a Bill Walsh Coaching tree.

Bill Walsh Coaching tree

"I am going to put my trust and faith in Holmgren that he has a plan and knows what he is doing. With that said, I can't help but think that he fired Mangini with absolutely no plan or fallbacks in place."

And people call me crazy.

Mark Whipple

Schefter is saying he has emerged as a candidate for our OC position.

1980 St. Lawrence (Asst)
1981-1982 Union (OC)
1983 Brown (WR)
1984 Arizona Wranglers (QB)
1986-1987 New Hampshire (OC)
1988-1993 New Haven (HC)
1994-1997 Brown (HC)
1998-2003 UMass (HC)
2004-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers (QB)
2007-2008 Philadelphia Eagles (Off Asst)
2009-2010 Miami (FL) (AHC/OC/QB)

Was pretty successful coach at lower level college programs with big time offenses.

This is our new offensive coordinator?

Not bad Pedigree..wonder if Tom Clements name has popped up at all. Not sure if he has ever been a coordinator, but has experience.

It's gotta be ... look he already has the charmin to clean up the "mess" of an offense we've seen the last few years ...

As far as names popping up .. this *could* speak further to the point that Holmgren loves lists and probably had a list of 20 or 30 guys he wanted in every position. When one isn't available he just goes right on down.

Now that's not always a good thing but if they were on the list for a reason maybe he has thought all this stuff through after all. I am slightly impressed slighty surprised that only an hour or two after Minnesota signed Muskgrave, we already have an official candidate being pursued.

Why hasn't Bill Callahan popped up I wonder. Maybe I missed it?