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For the longest time on this board we've talked about the importance of building the offensive line and running game. Obviously, these two components of an offense are very important.
However, after observing the NFL for the past several seasons, I'm starting to believe you build around a group of receivers and a QB.
I got nauseous thinking about how many downright FAST receivers the Steelers have. Mike Wallace isn't the only one who can burn through a secondary, as evidenced last night.
The Packers were like poetry in motion this year and especially last night, and much of that is because they have more receivers than you can count on one hand.
This isn't a "we need WR's" post. We know we do, my thoughts are if we should be changing our thinking on this board about the importance of WR's. I've heard the phrase "You don't build around WR's" a lot.
Thoughts?
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We've been hearing for several years now just how bad the Steelers' Oline is and they seem to be doing just fine in spite of it.
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Still, the OL has to be able to give the QB and recievers enough time to complete routes.
Also, it has to be the RIGHT receivers, too. (You know, the kind that run good patterns, get open, catch the ball, and get yardage after the catch.)
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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I'd agree with that statement based upon the fact that if you have fast receivers it makes it easier for your QB to find seperation and have open downfield targets, which could then force safeties to back off the LOS and open up shorter plays ..?
Overall I think what you're getting at is it's more important to have a quality coordinator who will actually use wideouts (and the players as a whole) to their strengths then trying to fit them into a specific role. Name one coordinator that we have had since we returned who has had legitimate success elsewhere in the league since our return? (I honestly can't think of any except *maybe* Romeo if you count this year in KC).
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Name one coordinator that we have had since we returned who has had legitimate success elsewhere in the league since our return? (I honestly can't think of any except *maybe* Romeo if you count this year in KC).
There's this dude named Bruce Arians who's done alright.
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 right ... and he's the one making it work with a washed up blocking receiver .. a 3rd round pick who only has speed .. and a couple of late round picks ..
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I just hope we find ourselves our DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin clones ASAFP.
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That 3rd round WR who *only* has speed had 1200+ yards and 10 touchdowns this season.
You're the one saying that the OC of a team two years removed from a Super Bowl victory and in the conference championship game this year hasn't had any success, not me.
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I think that it depends on how your team is built.
13 of the top 15 rushing teams in the NFL had winning records. That seems to be a pretty good incentive to run the ball well.
However, 4 of the bottom half were playoff teams, the Bears, Packers, Saints and Seahawks. (all NFC teams, strange)
6 of the top 15 passing teams had losing records. (Houston, Dallas, Denver, Washington, Detroit and Cincinnati)
Of the bottom 15 passing teams, the Seahawks, Ravens, Jets, Bears, and KC all made the playoffs.
Scoring defense would be a better evaluator. Of the top 8 scoring defenses, 7 were still in the playoffs entering this weekend.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We could find those guy's but if the right side of our line isn't fixed then we aren't going to have time to do anything playing in the division we play in.
I mean I look at a team like Detroit who has drafted alot of wr's and still are terrible because they can't protect thier QB.
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We could find those guy's but if the right side of our line isn't fixed then we aren't going to have time to do anything playing in the division we play in.
I mean I look at a team like Detroit who has drafted alot of wr's and still are terrible because they can't protect thier QB.
How does Pittsburgh get away with it? Their line is atrocious outside of Pouncey.
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Because Ben is able to extend plays and is hard to tackle is the only reason I can come up with.
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I think it's fair to say that to win in this league, you have to have talent at all starting positions and all your draft picks / free agent signings / undrafted free agents must hit.
Wallace was a 3rd round pick (that 2009 stellar Mangini draft btw). Great example there - we took Robo and MoMass in the 2nd, Steelers take Wallace in the 3rd and now you couldn't trade Robo+MoMass for Wallace.
I think our team has proven that when your draft picks are mediocre NFL players at best, you will not win.
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I personally think on the offensive side it all revolves around a A QB being able to read a defense and to be given the freedom to make the necessary adjustments at the LOS. If you don't have that then you might as well say you are dead in the water.
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Quote:
We've been hearing for several years now just how bad the Steelers' Oline is and they seem to be doing just fine in spite of it.
It wasn't their oline, it was Ben holding on to the ball trying to make a play out of nothing.
In regards to the WR's... Speed can be a QB's best friend when it comes to the deep ball, and YAC. A 5 yard pass could easily turn into a first down. A heap to the air could mean a TD when a fast WR is one on one.
I'm starting to think that if AJ Green doesn't fall to us, and Julio Jones isn't taken at 6 (which I think he is worth it).. then we draft defense the first couple rounds. D-line more specifically.
I'm liking a 3rd round pick in Titus Young - Boise St, and a 6th round pick in Aldrick Robinson - SMU. They both are very Santonio Holmes'ish on the field, and can make plays out of nothing. That's what we need.
Get Carlton Mitchell in the mix, and he has the potential to be a #1, he just hasn't had the chance to show it to us on Sundays.
Mitchell
Robo
MoMass
Young
Robinson
Cribbs
I'm going to guess that we play a lot of 3-4 WR sets this year.. Probably won't carry but 5 WR's though.. so not sure how our WR's change.
We also had a guy on the PS who did well, and got a lot of Kudos from Gini, but then he got hurt.Jonathan Haggerty I believe?
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It is a TEAM sport, you have to build the entire TEAM, and weak leaks anywhere in the chain will expose you.
Having a great line is worthless if there is nobody that can get open to get the ball to or if you have a QB that can't get it there, conversely, having great WR's won't do squat for you if the QB is running for his life or just can't get the ball to where it needs to be.
You need ALL of it - in balance, and everyone needs to do their job - and ONLY their job, on each and every play. They have to trust the man next to them to do his job just as that person is trusting him to do his. When you have balance in your skill levels and the players take care of their job, you win far more than you lose.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think the WCO is going to serve us well with the aggressive division we play in.
It's going to get the ball out faster, force teams to back off of the LOS and cover the middle of the field which will open up the deep ball and the run game, in theory at-least.
I think the wr's we currently have our going to fit nicely in the wco but we have to get a burner to stretch the field or it's not going to work out very well.
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Quote:
You need ALL of it - in balance, and everyone needs to do their job - and ONLY their job, on each and every play. They have to trust the man next to them to do his job just as that person is trusting him to do his. When you have balance in your skill levels and the players take care of their job, you win far more than you lose.
That and you also need the cohesion of playing together, you can't be blowing up the roster every 2-3 years.
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That 3rd round WR who *only* has speed had 1200+ yards and 10 touchdowns this season.
You're the one saying that the OC of a team two years removed from a Super Bowl victory and in the conference championship game this year hasn't had any success, not me.
I think you misunderstood me .. might be the way I phrased it ... the point was I dont think that in another system wallace could be a #1 because the majority of his game is being a burner .. and I think that sanders and brown are in the same mold for the steelers... I actually think pittsburgh's offense is very similar to Chicago's except Ben is a better qb than Cutler. BUT when cutler has enough time any of his receiver (knox, iglesias, hester) are all speedy guys and can make plays .. they just aren't necessarily great wr's that could play anywhere else in the league.
Im trying to say that you need a coordinator who can play to the strengths of his offense and receivers .. and finds ways to get those rookies involved.
If WE would have drafted wallace in the third and never gotten him involved (IE never thrown the deep ball to him), he might only have 120 yards and not 1200 this year ... and if Robo or MoMass was with Pittsburgh they could be 1,200 yard receivers easily.
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I'm starting to believe you build around a group of receivers and a QB.
How about building around a philosophy? How about setting a goal for what you want your "finished" team to look like and building TOWARD something rather than trying to figure out what you might want to try to build around?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Ahh, I misunderstood you there...I thought you were trying to say that Mike Wallace isn't a good receiver based on his draft position or because of a perceived one-dimensional skill set. 
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I believe Matt Millen tried this once. How'd that work out for him again?
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Ammo, this is not meant to be an attack on your views here, but I think your under estimating the 'other' game on game day.
Ask any QB or RB for that matter, what is more important the WR or the guys in the trenches. How many times have you heard a HOF being inducted from either position and most will give credit where credit is due.
Last night was a case where the Steelers where banged up at OT, but Pouncy and their OG where winning the battle up front. Pouncy gets to the second level in a hurry. Damit man
As a defense you have to keep coming after Ben, because he is like a big ole oak tree who has been given plenty of talent at WR and TE.
On the other hand their
(Pittsburgh cough/gag) front seven pretty much shut down Baltimore's offense.
I have always said it is usually more profitable to be able to draft WR's... if you already have them and then you can just draft for talent.
This is how they draft year in and year out, but it helps to already have the talent in place.
Suggs had a big game, but they do not have the DB's to match up with all the players that the Steelers can rotate in and in so keeping them fresh.
I have a feeling that this is the approach H&H will take in the draft, then if and when there is a FA period, you look to fill needs with players with proven abilities.
This will be part of the 'new' Culture Holmgren wants to breed here.
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I agree w/ purp - any weak spots on your team will eventually come to light and be exploited by other teams. For example at the beginning of the season Hillis was this new RB just running teams over. Once teams found that we have no passing game, no right-side OL and Hillis is all we got - they began to focus on our lone offensive weapon.
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Maybe it has something to do with the QB?
Kind of helps having an Aaron Rodgers or a Big ben.
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I wouldn't say that you build your team AROUND your WRs. But in the modern NFL with rules changes continuing to favor the passing game, you better have wide receivers that can get open.
Put a different way, football is an 11 vs 11 game, and every player is important.
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Quote:
Maybe it has something to do with the QB?
Kind of helps having an Aaron Rodgers or a Big ben.
Most definitely. Detroit drafted a bunch of first-round WRs, but they also had Joey Harrington throwing the ball to them.
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Maybe it has something to do with the QB?
Kind of helps having an Aaron Rodgers or a Big ben.
Or maybe the Packers, Steelers, Colts, Saints, and Patriots are all just really good at finding receivers.... 
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It's amazing to see other teams talent at the WR position compared to the Browns lack of talent. I'd love to see this team sign Sidney Rice in FA and draft AJ Green in the first round. Just think of how that would open up our offense. It'll never happen, but it's fun to think about.
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Any sort of trade that could be done for Vincent Jackson I wouldn't mind .. especially if the price tag wasn't too much ..
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Quote:
I agree w/ purp - any weak spots on your team will eventually come to light and be exploited by other teams. For example at the beginning of the season Hillis was this new RB just running teams over. Once teams found that we have no passing game, no right-side OL and Hillis is all we got - they began to focus on our lone offensive weapon.
We have never had a FO who could draft WR.
MoMass and Robo probably belong in the League, but they are just not worthy of where they we selected.
H&H have both been successful in the past finding talent at the position.
I like our chances at getting that position fixed, but it's going to be a highly scrutinized subject (if) we pass on one in the Draft in favor of a defensive player. It's a possibility drafting at #6.
FA is still up in the air and I don't know if any will be signed prior to the Draft.
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Chicago, Seattle, New England and Baltimore.
None of them had a thousand yard receiver or a guy who completely takes over a game. Anquan Boldin is a great receiver and can take over a game but he missed the thousand yard mark.
My point is you don't need to be stacked at WR you just need some capable guy's and having one pro-bowler doesn't hurt either. A good QB can make average WR's better as long as the game planning and play calling is solid.
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I really wouldn't mind having a big time receiver, but if Dareus is there at 6 and we don't take him I'll be pissed. We passed on Ngata, would rather not do that again.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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1st String
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Quote:
I really wouldn't mind having a big time receiver, but if Dareus is there at 6 and we don't take him I'll be pissed. We passed on Ngata, would rather not do that again.
Not only did we pass on Ngata, we gave him to the Ravens..
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Quote:
Quote:
I really wouldn't mind having a big time receiver, but if Dareus is there at 6 and we don't take him I'll be pissed. We passed on Ngata, would rather not do that again.
Not only did we pass on Ngata, we gave him to the Ravens..
Old battle here, but I'll reload my weapon again,...not only did we deal with another team IN THE DIVISION AND not milk them hard enough, we took a player that we no longer have anymore.
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Please don't bring THAT up.  I wanted us to draft Ngata so bad and was pumped when we were first put on the clock because stupid Phil lied and said we would turn in the card if he was there. Then we drafted Wimbley and completely ruined my draft day experience and got basically nothing out of the deal but a 6th rounder.
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I really wouldn't mind having a big time receiver, but if Dareus is there at 6 and we don't take him I'll be pissed. We passed on Ngata, would rather not do that again.
I don't see Dareus being rated so high unless your looking for a 5 technique.
We are no longer looking for them.
He's a DT in the 43, but he has not played there so it's hard to judge his value in the Draft there.
Cameron Jordan is probably more athletic and is versatile enough to still be a DE in the 43 and would not be a liability vs the run either.
DE DaQuan Bowers would be a no brain'er even if AJ green is on the board.
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Please don't bring THAT up.
I wanted us to draft Ngata so bad and was pumped when we were first put on the clock because stupid Phil lied and said we would turn in the card if he was there. Then we drafted Wimbley and completely ruined my draft day experience and got basically nothing out of the deal but a 6th rounder.
I didn't,...I was just folllowing along,.... 
As to the thread,...the answer is "No, I don't." WR's are only as good as the scheme, the QB, and the OLine protection allow them to be. Have the Steelers missed a beat, or, gotten even better without Santonio Holmes ? Are the Patriots scared to death of the Jets because they have Holmes and Edwards ?
Did the Browns drop off the face of the earth after trading Paul Warfield, or did PW coincidentally walk into a good situation in Miami with Griese and Shula ?
Did Jerry Rice play by himself ?
All depends on your perspective.
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You can build around a lot of things, but receiver???
Naaa....they are accessories.
They might be like air conditioning...you don't want to do without, but you don't start there.
JMO
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Not only did we pass on Ngata, we gave him to the Ravens..
Not only did we give him to the Ravens, we bragged about tricking them into giving us a 6th round pick to do it. Savage spoke of that bit of flim-flam trickery as though it were his shinning moment.
#gmstrong
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