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You can get a pretty good RT in the 3rd or a really good RT in the 2nd. I would never take a RT in the first unless he was clearly the best player and no decent trade options.
mourg...would a 3rd round RT draft pick be better than a healthy Pashos?
The key word..."healthy".
I'm sure Holmgren, Heckert and the Oline coach will be conferring with the medical staff wanting to know what Pashos' prognosis is. Pashos has had trouble staying healthy the last few years, starting only 4 games in the last 2 seasons.
If the Browns are convinced that Pashos is healthy, I doubt the Browns draft any Oline. Maybe the Browns go after a WR or a defensive lineman...or trade down, looking to add more picks to fill more needs.
When Pashos and Lauvao were healthy, the right side of the Oline looked good.
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I hope he comes back 100% and tears the right side up,....but I don't hold out for much here,...he has ALWAYS been an injury prone prospect. Certainly would save a draft spot,...  And I think Lauvao will come around -- seems like he was in the doghouse with Mangini,....
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The key word..."healthy".
Yes, that is the key word. And Pashos hasn't been able to attain that throughout his whole career.
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When Pashos and Lauvao were healthy, the right side of the Oline looked good.
You mean in the preseason???
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Pashos has missed 21 of the past 32 games with injury.
He started 1 game for the 49'ers 2 years ago and went on the IR with a shoulder injury.
He started 3 games for us last year, after missing all of training camp with an injury, then went in IR with an ankle injury.
We signed him to a 3 year, $10.3 million deal. Somehow I see us looking really hard for a replacement player this off-season. That's a lot of money that has been on the shelf for the last 2 years with 2 different teams.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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There 'ya go,...nutshell.
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Shurmur loves the 3 step drop so you dont have to be a superstar pass blocker but serviceable. Pashos, his last year when healthy was barely serviceable. Now add in yet another injury and another year for his body to slow down and honestly i dont know if he can get it done.
This isnt a great OT class as I see few left tackles but there are some potential 3rd and 4th round OT's that would be an upgrade over St. Useless and Pashover.
I expect tackles to fall big time this year with so many teams taking a tackle high the last couple of seasons along with this being a weaker class and a really strong DL class.
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If there is a good LG candidate available, I could see us sliding Steinbach to RT. I think he could do well in a WCO type offense at T.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'll buy that -- "not a superstar pass blocker" -- IF in return I get a dude that is a bruising, hole opening, pancaking run blocker. I know,..........I ask for a lot,... 
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IF in return I get a dude that is a bruising, hole opening, pancaking run blocker.
I like that..
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All Pro
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It is IMPOSSIBLE to fix ALL our OL problems in 1 Offseason....While I agree on Steinbach , I would Gladly keep him IF we could find a way to Significantly upgrade the right side of our OL....Youth or relative Youth is also the key....An OL that gels together stays together and the whole Offense benefits....
The Mammal
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Quote:
Pashos has missed 21 of the past 32 games with injury.
He started 1 game for the 49'ers 2 years ago and went on the IR with a shoulder injury.
He started 3 games for us last year, after missing all of training camp with an injury, then went in IR with an ankle injury.
We signed him to a 3 year, $10.3 million deal. Somehow I see us looking really hard for a replacement player this off-season. That's a lot of money that has been on the shelf for the last 2 years with 2 different teams.
Pashos broke his left shoulder blade on Oct 25, 2009 while playing for the 49ers against the Texans. He missed the rest of the 2009 season and was signed by the Browns in the off season.
Pashos played in the first six games of the 2010 regular season for the Browns and started in the Bengals, Falcons and Steelers games before being placed on IR due to an ankle injury.
To be fair to Pashos, he has not always had injury problems. In 2006, he started 16 games for the Ravens...in 2007, he started 15 games for the Jags...and in 2008, he started 16 games for the Jags.
Like I said, the Browns medical staff and coaching staff along with Heckert and Holmgren will need to decide if Pashos has a future in Cleveland. When healthy, he is a good RT.
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our line is not perfect but it is one of the stronger points of the team, which i know isn't saying much.
but i think our front 7 needs more help than the o-line, however i wouldn't mind seeing a guy drafted in the middle rounds, you can never have enough offensive linemen.
i'm just so tired of seeing all these playoff teams with great front 7's and we just sit there and patch ours together with late round picks and scrubs from other teams. fujita was a nice addition, roth is a rotation guy, rogers actually played hard in a few games last year and rubin was a total find, but other than that, it's been meh. we need that one guy to bring it all together.
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but i think our front 7 needs more help than the o-line, however i wouldn't mind seeing a guy drafted in the middle rounds, you can never have enough offensive linemen.
This. WR and defensive front 7 should be the point of emphasis this offseason, and maybe draft a o-line prospect in the later rounds, or bring in a UDFA if he is on your board and doesn't get drafted.
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With Yates and 'chop it was actually not that bad.
The past couple seasons I keep seeing this St. Clair at RT and it annoys me more and more.
What can we do to get one of the WORST O-Linemen in the league off our team?
Sometimes it may just be coaching, or that our understanding is just WRONG.
In 2000, or 01 I felt the sameway about left tackle Roman Oben,
What can they do to get one of the worst offensive linemen off the team? Well when they did, he went to the Buccanneers and the next thing I know I'm watching him win the superbowl against the Raiders.
I'm still pretty sure he was one of the worst O-linemen in the league while on the Browns, maybe it was the quarterback who had a quicker release?
Everybody knows the QB of the Bucs that year ( unknown qb), was probably better with a quick release than Couch. ?
Anyway, Roman Oben, WORST lineman I can remember, won a Super Bowl,
So was it coaching, or was I Wrong?
I think it was coaching , or Both.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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The Bucs that year were only 18th in points scored ...... but were ... surprise .... 1st in points allowed.
A great scoring defense wins another one.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Bucs that year were only 18th in points scored ...... but were ... surprise .... 1st in points allowed.
A great scoring defense wins another one.
it's kind of a pet peeve with me when someone says something like " Tom Brady has won 2 superbowls" or whatever.
they don't hand out trophies to individual players. It's a team sport.
I'm of the belief that championship teams have balance. A team with a great offense, Colts for example, had prolly an average defense and decent special teams. Nothing below average.
the bucs team in your example had an average offense. I would not consider that to be a weakness.
Last edited by Line Judge; 01/31/11 07:46 AM.
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It's also shortsighted in the sense that scoring defense is really helped along when you're not playing from behind the entire game. The situations where pick sixes, forcing a QB to fumble, etc. are mostly once the other team is forced to be one dimensional and HAVE to pass. Also, our scoring defense is a bit of a mirage in the sense that because of our weaker, nonexplosive offense, the opposing team's offensive game plan is more vanilla and conservative knowing we're not a threat to match score for score.
It's not as one-sided and simple as "(scoring) defense wins championships". The glossing over of the other factors and the black and white approach to stats has made his posts repetitive and borderline unreadable. More crucial to getting to/winning Super Bowls than scoring defense is the quarterback on offense. It's a symbiotic relationship; not a simple parasitic one in which a putrid offense can ride the coattails of an awesome defense.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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That's possible .... but the data is more heavily weighted towards a great scoring defense winning championships than a great scoring offense.
There are more examples in the past decade, by far, of teams with average scoring offenses and great scoring defenses winnig Super Bowls while teams with the reverse don't even make the playoffs.
The 2 notable exceptions were the Saints and Colts.
Most teams with a top 8 scoring defense make the playoffs. There are often teams with a top 8 scoring offense left sitting at home come playoff time.
The axiom is that defense wins championships ...... but it should be updated to "Great scoring defense wins championships".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That's possible .... but the data is more heavily weighted towards a great scoring defense winning championships than a great scoring offense.
There are more examples in the past decade, by far, of teams with average scoring offenses and great scoring defenses winnig Super Bowls while teams with the reverse don't even make the playoffs.
The 2 notable exceptions were the Saints and Colts. don't forget the Rams
Most teams with a top 8 scoring defense make the playoffs. There are often teams with a top 8 scoring offense left sitting at home come playoff time.
The axiom is that defense wins championships ...... but it should be updated to "Great scoring defense wins championships".
Where as I follow your way of thinking on the subject.....
I don't see how you can separate a great defense from a great 'scoring' defense.
Can a poor defense be a good scoring defense?
Add to that.....what is a pass happy league only increases the opportunities for a defense.
Many factors go into a TO most of the time and then on occasion a great play is made by a great individual effort.
JM2C
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Well, I did preface the previous paragraph with "past decade" but that's fine.
However, the 1999 Rams were 4th in scoring defense. The Rams team that lost the Super Bowl in 2001 was 7th in scoring defense.
The Rams were #1 in offense and scoring offense from 1999 to 2001. The years they went to the Super Bowl, they were #4 and #7 in scoring defense. The year in between when they lost in the WildCard game they dropped to the bottom of the league in scoring defense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Opps! Sorry I must have been speed ready again.
My point being that know one is going to remember those teams for having a great defense or not, but they are a minority I think.
They were special in that their best defense was a great offense.
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There are reports that Jared Gaither is on his way out in Baltimore. He would look nice at right tackle.
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There are reports that Jared Gaither is on his way out in Baltimore.
He would look nice at right tackle.
WGMFGTG!!!!
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There are reports that Jared Gaither is on his way out in Baltimore.
He would look nice at right tackle.
So would a healthy Tony Pashos, or a drafted Gabe Carimi,....or any other of my wish list dreams. 
I'll say "Pass" based on my opinion of the cited "reports,"...lot's of less-than-blossomy info in there. Sounded more like someone else's trash not worth recovering from the dump.
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well if you want to be a sore loser because someone else called you out on a post ... feel free.
I'm just saying take things with a grain of salt. Any local media source can report anything they want ... and my point is that for all we know .. Joe Flacco is so upset that Zorn was fired they he wants out too? You guys can't depend 100% on the news and ONLY on the news ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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Sherrod from Miss st. should be there in the 2nd. Might be worth the investment. I was very impressed with him this year and man he looked great at the senior bowl.
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The "News" is all we have to go on as far as what's going on within teams ..... and, for the most part, we've had pretty decent coverage of the Browns from Cabot, Pat Mac when he was writing for the ABJ, and Doerschuk and Porter from the Canton Repository,
Those guys (and gal) are generally right far, far more often than they are wrong.
Grossi ... well he seems to pull things out of his butt sometimes, and goes for the home run a LOT, while striking out a lot as well.
If those earler reports had been from Grossi, or some other minor reporter, then I would have taken them with a huge grain of salt. (one about the size of a VW) However, given that Mary Kay Cabot is usually pretty solid in her sourcing, and doesn't generally run a story until it's solid in her mind, well, I trust her because of those factors.
Given that, and that she ran 2 such stories, tells me that either the Browns found her sources and told them flat out to lie to her, (and got agents and GMs and such to go along as well) or that something was on the front burner, and then got kicked off the stove.
Now, I had my fun with the whole "story" story ...... so I'll let it drop. I just found it ironic that we had "reports" that were dismissed as a stupid source of information ..... and now this "report" is causing excitement.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Point noted and I wasn't so much calling you out or anything as I was suggesting we see things happen all the time concerning the nfl for reasons we don't know.
The easiest example is that Andy Reid has said close to half a dozen times something concerning Vick, Kolb, or McNabb within the past 10 months only to change his mind within DAYS each time. And that's straight from the horses mouth. So my point isn't that we should disregard everything ... but that just because one person had reported one story on an issue, it doesn't mean it's any more true than the entire opposite is.
As far as the coordinators, for all we know we didn't "lose" any of the coordinators so much as they came in for the interview, we told them flat out how it would be and they didn't like it ... or maybe they came in and we kinda said "yeah, thanks but no thanks ... you aren't what we want" ... but then the media phrases it like "we lost out" ... it's all about framing.
If Gaither defintely wants out, then it's definitely something to consider. At one point D'Qwell and Josh Cribbs were both out of here, and that was close to a year or 18 months ago ... if you only read a single report anyway.
Not trying to call anyone out or disrespect them or their views however.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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Sherrod from Miss st. should be there in the 2nd. Might be worth the investment. I was very impressed with him this year and man he looked great at the senior bowl.
I agree, especially since he's a guy who could backup at LT as well. The talking heads are saying he's a climber, though, and that he might go in the first in a weak draft class. Ravens would be a possibility. So would the Packers who have 87-year-old chad clifton at LT.
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Thank you and PStu24 for killing another thread with stuff nobody else cares about.
Couldn't all of this be handled with private messages?
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Sherrod from Miss st. should be there in the 2nd. Might be worth the investment. I was very impressed with him this year and man he looked great at the senior bowl.
I prefer Carimi, but I suspect most NFL teams will too and he won't drop to us in the 2nd round. If Sherrod does, then I would be happy to rubber stamp that pick
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Not a great LT class but fortunately for us it does look to be a very good RT class. I have 2 tackles going in the first at this point but I have seen some mocks with up to 5.
I think OL is going to slide and we will see a few more linebackers and DL climb. It could be a mad dash for DL and LBs at the end of the first.
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If we want Carimi -- assuming nothing else changes in the way of a trade or extra pick -- we have to take him at 6. And nobody thinks it's worth that, so I don't figure to get him.
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Wouldn't Carimi, at this point, be at best the 2nd tackle?
Solder is ahead of him on most boards and Castonzo, Tyron Smith, and Sherrod are all ahead of him or jumbled together somewhere with him.
If Carimi ends up being the 5th best tackle then I would say he definitely has a chance at getting to us.
Although the past couple drafts have been filled with tackles being taken in the 1st round (2010 - Okung, Williams, Davis, Bulaga. 2009 - Smith, Smith, Monroe, Oher. 2008 - Long, Clady, Williams, Albert, Cherilus, Otah, Baker Brown.)
It would seem that all the teams that needed a tackle drafted them the past couple years.
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A guy I like (having watched him a ton over the past several seasons) is Stefen Wisniewski from Penn State. He can play guard or center and is 6'3", 300lbs. I belive he's projected by some as a mid to late 2nd rounder, but could possibly be there when the Browns pick in the third. The review I've copied sort of shows him to be the type of lineman that might be good in the WCO, as teams like Indy, Green Bay, N. England are mentioned as possible fits. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011swisniewski.php
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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When I say "Carimi," what I really mean is, anybody that you think can nail down the RT spot for the next 12 years,....I don't get into all of the rating sheets and scouting reports like some of the rest on here. I'm just interested in not having the right side be a gateway to sacking McCoy. It's just my opinion that if he WAS the FO's dude-of-the-draft, must have,...then you take him "then" because (1) he most probably won't last, regardless of what the boards and the other teams' holes are, and (2) I'm a Browns fan, so I won't get what I want anyway,....  
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I'm a Browns fan, so I won't get what I want anyway,....
Probably the truest statement ever written on this board!!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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We need to address o-line through Free Agency until we can afford to do so in the draft..
As of right now, we need defense and WR's.. We have 3 gems on the o-line now, bringing in a guy with experience in the NFL IMO would be the best thing to do.
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You can always afford to address ANY position via the Draft.
And every guy we have on the OLine now is a vet... our young center just played in a Pro Bowl. We can absolutely afford to draft OL.
If nothing else - I'd prefer the savvy, vet WR because more than anything we need WR's that know how to play the darn game, that can get open, that know the routes and run them well.
In fact, the more that I think about it, the more that I feel that - regardless of who is sitting there at 6 - we should trade down if we can. We have enough needs that the extra picks are of greater value than any single player could be.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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