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I think this is one of those years at WR where there is a real drop off between 1st and 2nd tier guys. The big issue is that it looks like the only first tier guys are Green and Jones.
As I am getting more and more into looking at the draft, I'm leaning more to the 1st round DE and a FA WR...... VJax or bust.
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Legend
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I say, if we're going to address the WR position, then really get an elite talent in there. Either our 1st rounder, or a BIG free agent (Jackson, not sure who else). We have plenty of "decent" or "average" WR. We don't need any more of those. We need a true #1 WR, and that requires investment.
The flip side, if we do try and fix our WR corps with same lame FA or later draft pick, expect a similar offense to last year. That's just the way I see it.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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All Pro
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if we go to the 4-3 the browns better draft all D or it'll be unwatchable.
I can't take another set of jason fisk re-runs.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Legend
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Quote:
if we go to the 4-3 the browns better draft all D or it'll be unwatchable.
I can't take another set of jason fisk re-runs.
Thanks.
I just damn near threw up there.
Fisk was a NT for Crennel brought in my Savage though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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Quote:
Quote:
if we go to the 4-3 the browns better draft all D or it'll be unwatchable.
I can't take another set of jason fisk re-runs.
Thanks.
I just damn near threw up there.
Fisk was a NT for Crennel brought in my Savage though.
Yeah, but we needed him because of the switch to the 3-4.
It took so long to finally find rubin, a real 3-4 NT. Just think about having to find two stud DEs.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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There are 10 stud Defensive ends for every 1 NT though. And it doesnt take anywhere near as long to bring an end up to speed either. A good DE will make an impact immediately. NT seems to take 3 years minimum to develop.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Legend
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All I'm saying is that I hope we don't take a late rounder WR and expect him to be a diamond in the rough type of guy that's going to take over the #1 WR spot.
Either we address the WR spot, or we don't. It'll be pretty obvious either way.
Once again, we have too many needs to address all in one offseason.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Legend
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I agree with your premise when it comes to drafting a #1 wideout: go big or stay home.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
I agree with your premise when it comes to drafting a #1 wideout: go big or stay home.
I keep going back and forth b/w this..
I just want a better team... I want a better defense to keep teams from scoring, but if we don't have a better offense, we aren't scoring points anyway...
The choice should be b/w AJ Green and a top DE Bowers/Quinn... I personally feel that Julio Jones is worth the 6 spot.
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and the argument between the WR and the DL is that the WR touches the ball 6 to 10 times a game. Maybe.....
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Hall of Famer
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A great receiver also draws double teams, which takes guys away from the LOS as well as freeing up your other receivers with single coverage.
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Or if you have a receiver who is adding in 100 yards per game to not only account for 1/4 - 1/3 of the qb's yards, but also to help open up the running game?
I'd love to see Hillis getting a full head of steam going against only 5 or 6 in the box ....
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing teams trying to put together any offense on us only to be gobbled up by a dominant defensive line ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Yes it a quandry, I agree. But we HAVE to upgrade our WR corps - it is as much a glaring need as DL.
gmstrong -----------------
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I just think that a WR should be out top pick for two main reasons.
1. It's been a glaring need for longer.
2. We've been able to cobble together a semi-decent d-line unit that, when healthy, can mostly get the job done. Trouble is that "when healthy" part doesn't happen for too long.
3. This is a D-line heavy draft. We can should still be able to get some quality talent later in the draft.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Going WR over a dominant DL is absolutely foolish in the Browns case.
Our Dline is nothing but old injured players except for Rubin and a couple back-ups like Schaefering
A decent WR can be had in FA in any given year. A good Dlineman drafted and groomed in a system is invaluable.
I agree we need a true #1 at wideout, but without a couple new young talented defensive linemen, the defense will suffer big time.
On top of that, we still need a decent LB or two, Barton and Trusnick are not going to cut it. The defense is hurting way more than the offense IMO. On offense, if we get one WR and a decent RT, we could be decently set for the year. I'm not saying that is all that is needed on that side of the ball, but the needs on defense are staggering.
Our division is no longer a pound it out running division. Your defense must be able to have an effective blitz, and the ability to create pressure up front. We do not posess either of these qualities.
With a draft so deep at Dline with quality players, not picking at least a couple high would be a huge mistake.
I will also like to add that I truely believe that the WRs will progress now that we have a competent offensive mind in charge. Daboll's high school scheme was a hinderance on all facets of the offense.
#gmstrong
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Agreed, in part. Classic conundrum. All games are lost by failure to stop enough points, which happened in almost every close one. Or you only win games by scoring heavier points than opponents. Which is more crucial? We need a few standouts on both sides of the ball. I would want to draft one beast this year in Defensive line, and a few in later rounds. One stud receiver could help. Asa much as it pains me, some of the faves from this year will leave, hopefully for draft picks, as we "get younger" in a number of positions. Bricks of future are draft or less aged vets rather than 30+ range in the trenches I presume. This could be exciting if it comes together. But we need to take advantage of some free agency as well; those decisions will tell us draft priorities yet to be addressed. We have enough needs to make the "best man available" tenet a muddy proposition this year. But be "Good Wrong" if we mess up; we are getting some quality players together.  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
I will also like to add that I truely believe that the WRs will progress now that we have a competent offensive mind in charge. Daboll's high school scheme was a hinderance on all facets of the offense.
Very good point.
I would like to up grade the WR just as much as the next guy, but even AJ Green will not make much of a difference his rookie year.
I would much rather have a deeper class to draft from so that we are not reaching for one like in the past.
If one falls to us then that's another story.....
AJ Green falls to us at 6.
Torrey Smith if he falls to us at 37.
Titus Young or Hankerson if either falls to us in round 3.
I think it is highly possible that none of the prospects listed above will be available with those selections.
It's also possible that if they are on the board we will still go with a defensive selection.
34 or 43 aside, we need to get younger and faster in our front 7.
With this being a deep draft as far as the DL.
Teams who select some high may allow some good talent to be available later. There should be value at the position threw the 3rd round.
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well, let's put it this way. It's a good year to have needs on DL and WR with this draft
#gmstrong
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Quote:
well, let's put it this way. It's a good year to have needs on DL and WR with this draft
Not so much WR.
AJ Green is clearly the head of the class, but I don't think even Julio Jones is a sure fire can't miss talent.
A lot will depend on him learning to not rely so much on his physical abilities and working on his technique and become a more polished receiver.
Torrey Smith could turn out to be a good player in the right system.
I don't think any are in our range with the 6th pick or the 37th pick in round two.
Titus Young we might have a chance at drafting in the second round, but he might not be rated as high as say a DT or a CB.
I think that there is a good chance we won't be drafting any #1's come April.
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Quote:
A lot will depend on him learning to not rely so much on his physical abilities and working on his technique and become a more polished receiver.
This. I didn't care for the Brown's picking up MoMass b/c he use to have mental lapses where he would drop balls at UGA.. But in his first 2 seasons, he catches the catchable balls, which he should now. The same could happen for Julio w/ good coaching.
I think if Green is gone, Julio is just as good, and could be a bigger deep field threat.
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there's topend talent: AJ, Julio
and there's good next tier talent: Baldwin, Torrey, Titus
5 WRs that some teams will at least consider in the 1st round is quite alot and we should have at least one drop to us for our 2nd pick.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
there's topend talent: AJ, Julio
and there's good next tier talent: Baldwin, Torrey, Titus
5 WRs that some teams will at least consider in the 1st round is quite alot and we should have at least one drop to us for our 2nd pick.
I can see Green, Jones and Smith going in the 1st round, but only one worthy of a top 6 pick imo. I would consider Young at 37, but not Baldwin. I would have to consider Hankerson over him, but not at 37 and all will be gone by the 70th selection in round 3. I think our best shot at drafting one of the top 3 (Jones and Smith) will be to draft down and add another high pick.
[Speculation]
The Patriots have 3 selections in the top 33.
17, 28 and 33rd. I would expect Belichick to package some picks and try to move up in the 1st.
Do they need a roster turn over?
If Green is drafted by the Bengals and Bowers is also gone I would not have a problem drafting down for more picks.
Dallas and Jerry Jones likes to move around on draft day. The two prospects I could see them jumping a head of the 9ers for is CB Prince Amukamara or even the top rated 5 technique Marcell Dareus and we would only be drafting down 3 selection and will still be able to draft Julio Jones or Cameron Jordan.
I like Cameron Jordan, but I don't know how H&H will have him rated.
[/speculation]
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I would love nothing more to trade down for new england's 2 firsts .. maybe even a first and 2 seconds in this years draft?
I doubt New England would make a "foolish" trade, but at the same time, THIS was supposed to be their rebuilding year. Aside from another WR and another DL ... they might just want to add depth along their O-Line ... what else do they need? I could def. see them trying to move around with 7 picks in the first 4 rounds ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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If building some more depth is their goal, what better way to do it than having 2 first rounders?
In the end, we stick where we are and build the D line. I doubt we take a receiver before round 4.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Exactly. We learned last season that we are not adequate at WR with what we have. With this hypothesized move to a 4-3 D, we have to truly evaluate our front seven on that defense and ask "is this good enough?" Like the WR's last season, do we leave it with minimal upgrades and see what we've got? I think we cannot afford to leave the front seven alone, we need at least 1 DL and maybe even 1 LB as well. A DE and a DT even. I'm not sold on Shaun Rogers, especially after Holmgren pointed to him to step up last off-season upon him joining the team. I think it's debatable if Rogers rose to the occasion And our LB core... do we have the men to run a 4-3? Gocong had a decent year but he struggled in Philly in their 4-3 D... I think Heckert's gonna have to make some magic again in this years draft much like he did last year. Quote:
Yes it a quandry, I agree. But we HAVE to upgrade our WR corps - it is as much a glaring need as DL.
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Looking at our roster and specifically the [43] DL.
--DT--
Starters;
Ahtyba Rubin
Shaun Rogers?
Others/depth;
(not much)
Kenyon Coleman (does he have anything left?)
Derreck Robinson
Brian Schaefering
Titus Adams (NT)
Travis Ivey (NT)
Ko Quaye (NT)
--DE--
Starters?
Brian Sanford
Others/depth?
FA Browns 2011;
Matt Roth
Chris Gocong
Jayme Mitchell
(IIRC we our still on the hook for our 7th round pick to the Vikings in 2012) I hope he can be resigned, because I think he could help us here. I would like to see matt Roth in a Browns uniform next season, but I have a feeling he might want to move on.
I think with our current personnel we might be 'okay' at DT if we did nothing at all, but we could use a young stud to pair with Rubin.
Derreck Robinson and Brian Schaefering might actually be
better suited to playing the 3 technique
As opposed to the 5, but I don't think they will be starting material.
DE is a glaring hole and we not only need to find two starters, but must also add depth.
Sanford is all we have at the moment and he is still an unproven commodity.
Yes Marcus Benard played DE in College, but I don't think he will hold up there in this league, not that he can't help us as a situational pass rusher though.
We have our work cut out to say the least.
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If i am the DL coach I make up a video tape for Benard to study of nothing but Dwight Freeney highlights. I see so much talent in this kid and it is mostly raw talent. He has power, a quick burst and really explosive off the snap.
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Quote:
If i am the DL coach I make up a video tape for Benard to study of nothing but Dwight Freeney highlights. I see so much talent in this kid and it is mostly raw talent. He has power, a quick burst and really explosive off the snap.
His talents can definitely be used on this team. I don't know if he can be a starting OLB or DE in the 43.
It will be something to look for to see just where he might fit in our new system.
At the very least ST and PRS.
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Legend
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Legend
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Hey.. Do you all think Marcus Benard will be an OLB, or a DE?
I think he would do well at either spot, but wasn't sure if he was big enough to play DE.
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Legend
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He's too big to be an OLB in Jauron's system, so he'd either be a DE or a pass rush specialist only.
Aaron Schoebel was a 260# DE in Jauron's system in Buffalo. His other DEs were in the 260# range. Ditto for many of the DEs in Jacksonville when he was DC there. He started out with some big DE in Chicago, but moved to smaller and quicker Des as time went by.
His history would point to big up the middle ..... big players at DT and MLB, and smaller. quicker players on the outside. (DE and OLB)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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O okay... well I think Benard could do well @ DE though.. Love his speed.
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