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Mayock's Top 5... #569103 02/11/11 07:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,445 D Dawg in Dayton OP Hall of Famer
OP Dawg in Dayton Hall of Famer D Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,445	http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/37350/60/mayock-updates-his-top-fives Interesting ILB rankings... And no love for Quinn as of now... NFL Network's Mike Mayock is widely considered the top draft analyst in the business, so we tend to take his opinions seriously. We often do Mayock-related blurbs on the Rotoworld news page. Mayock released his initial top-fives by position on January 25. He updated them today. Here they are: Quarterbacks 1. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 2. Jake Locker, Washington 3. Cam Newton, Auburn 4. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas 5. Andy Dalton, TCU Comments: Mayock says he's not done with his quarterback evaluation, but he's made some changes since January. He's now got Dalton alone in the five spot after the Horned Frogs' four-year starter previously shared the position with Ricky Stanzi, Colin Kaepernick, and Pat Devlin. Devlin's stock appears to have plummeted since a poor showing at the East-West Shrine Game. Senior Bowl MVP Christian Ponder remains absent from the list. Running Backs 1. Mark Ingram, Alabama 2. Mikel Leshoure, Illinois 3. Daniel Thomas, Kansas State 4. Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech 5. Jacquizz Rodgers, Oregon State Comments: Mayock relentlessly talked up Kendall Hunter at the Senior Bowl, so it's surprising that the former Oklahoma State Cowboy is no longer even in a tie for the five spot. The biggest notable here, particularly from a fantasy perspective, is Leshoure's jump into the two-hole. Mayock said during Senior Bowl week that he wanted to watch more film on Leshoure. After doing so, Mayock has moved the Illinois product into conversation as a top-40 selection. Ingram remains the consensus top draft-eligible running back. Wide Receivers 1. A.J. Green, Georgia 2. Julio Jones, Alabama 3. Titus Young, Boise State 4. Jonathan Baldwin, Pittsburgh 5. Torrey Smith, Maryland Comments: Smith is the newcomer to the receiver top five, overtaking the old cast of Jerrel Jernigan, Randall Cobb, and Greg Little. Mayock's biggest switch was moving Young past Baldwin into the No. 3 position. Chris Wesseling, dominating the Rotoworld news page Thursday, did a post about Young's rise. Baldwin is a physical freak at 6'5/230 with alleged sub-4.4 speed, but there are concerns about his on-field concentration and off-field decision making. Tight Ends 1. Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame 2. Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin 3. Luke Stocker, Tennessee 4. D.J. Williams, Arkansas 5. Virgil Green, Nevada Comments: It's pretty much status quo here, as Mayock's evaluation of Kendricks through Williams did not change after seeing all three of those players on the Senior Bowl practice field. Stocker has drawn comparisons to Jason Witten and Oakland's Zach Miller as a complete tight end. The only change is the dropping out of Tulsa's Charles Clay in favor of Green. Interior Offensive Line 1. Mike Pouncey, Florida 2. Danny Watkins, Baylor 3. Clint Boling, Georgia 4. John Moffitt, Wisconsin 5. Rodney Hudson, Florida State Comments: The old list: 1) Pouncey, 2) Stefen Wisniewski, 3) Watkins, 4) Moffitt, 5) Hudson/Will Rackley. Pouncey is still the likeliest guard/center to be drafted in the first round, and Watkins is emerging as the clear-cut second best interior line prospect despite his age (27 next November). The Football Outsiders just kill it in this breakdown of Watkins and Rodney Hudson. Boling is the newcomer, essentially replacing Wisniewski, who's fallen off the list altogether. Offensive Tackles 1. Anthony Castonzo, Boston College 2. Nate Solder, Colorado 3. Tyron Smith, USC 4. Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin 5 (tie). Ben Ijalana, Villanova; Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State Comments: Mayock has bumped Castonzo into first place ahead of Solder. (Mayock and Castonzo share an alma mater, although we'll assume that's not the reason for the switch.) Castonzo was a four-year starter at B.C. and the Eagles' first offensive lineman in over a decade to start on the offensive line as a true freshman. Smith overtakes Carimi as the more athletic tackle prospect; Carimi is probably ticketed for right tackle in the NFL. Ijalana missed the Senior Bowl due to "double hernia" surgery, but teams must be confident in his health. Wes Bunting of the National Football Post loves Ijalana, FWIW. Defensive Ends 1. Da'Quan Bowers, Clemson 2. J.J. Watt, Wisconsin 3. Adrian Clayborn, Iowa 4. Cameron Jordan, California 5. Robert Quinn, North Carolina Comments: Watt leaped from No. 5 (tie) among defensive ends into the two-hole after Mayock watched film of Wisconsin's Rose Bowl loss to TCU. Watt did not put up big statistics in that game, so it's a good sign that Mayock was impressed even without the pass rusher racking up sacks and tackles for loss. It's also a good sign for Clayborn that he's still considered a top-three defensive end in this year's draft. He only had 3.5 sacks in 2010. Most observers are holding off on Quinn until he performs at the Combine. Defensive Tackle 1. Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2. Nick Fairley, Auburn 3. Corey Liuget, Illinois 4. Stephen Paea, Oregon State 5. Jurrell Casey, USC Comments: In terms of the top of the draft, the most intriguing development is Dareus passing Fairley as the top defensive tackle prospect. Fairley is considered the likely No. 1 pick in many circles. Critics can point to Mayock's ranking of Gerald McCoy over Ndamukong Suh ahead of last year's draft as reason to disagree. Liuget is really picking up steam, as noted in this item on yesterday's news page. Outside Linebacker 1. Von Miller, Texas A&M 2. Akeem Ayers, UCLA 3. Justin Houston, Georgia 4. Bruce Carter, North Carolina 5. Chris Carter, Fresno State Comments: Carter was the 2010 WAC Defensive Player of the Year, but is a 'tweener. He'll appeal to 3-4 teams as an outside rush linebacker. Ayers' best comparison is Karlos Dansby. Houston is sensationally explosive off the edge, though CBS' Rob Rang has questioned his ability to play outside of a 4-3 scheme, calling Houston "one of the more overrated prospects in the draft to this point." Inside Linebackers 1. Martez Wilson, Illinois 2. Colin McCarthy, Miami (FL) 3. Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina 4. Casey Matthews, Oregon 5. Kelvin Sheppard, LSU Comments: Hopefully, your team doesn't need an inside linebacker. Because behind Wilson this is a thoroughly unimpressive group. Cornerbacks 1. Patrick Peterson, LSU 2. Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 3. Aaron Williams, Texas 4. Jimmy Smith, Colorado 5. Brandon Harris, Miami (FL) Comments: Ranked third in Mayock's previous rankings, Harris is slipping after getting torched by Notre Dame wide receiver Michael Floyd in the Sun Bowl. It's probably deserved, especially considering Floyd only got a third-round grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Committee. Smith, as expected, is rising. Latest word from SI's Tony Pauline has Smith looking "sensational" in pre-Combine workouts. Safeties 1. Rahim Moore, UCLA 2. Ahmad Black, Florida 3. Marcus Gilchrist, Clemson 4. Quinton Carter, Oklahoma 5. Deunta Williams, North Carolina Comments: Williams, previously third in Mayock's safety ranks, was recently spotted walking around Chapel Hill with a boot on the foot he fractured in the Tar Heels' bowl game. He seems unlikely to participate in the Combine. Robert Sands and Will Hill have vanished from the list, replaced by Gilchrist and Carter. NFL Network's Mike Mayock is widely considered the top draft analyst in the business, so we tend to take his opinions seriously. We often do Mayock-related blurbs on the Rotoworld news page. Mayock released his initial top-fives by position on January 25. He updated them today. Here they are: Quarterbacks 1. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 2. Jake Locker, Washington 3. Cam Newton, Auburn 4. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas 5. Andy Dalton, TCU Comments: Mayock says he's not done with his quarterback evaluation, but he's made some changes since January. He's now got Dalton alone in the five spot after the Horned Frogs' four-year starter previously shared the position with Ricky Stanzi, Colin Kaepernick, and Pat Devlin. Devlin's stock appears to have plummeted since a poor showing at the East-West Shrine Game. Senior Bowl MVP Christian Ponder remains absent from the list. Running Backs 1. Mark Ingram, Alabama 2. Mikel Leshoure, Illinois 3. Daniel Thomas, Kansas State 4. Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech 5. Jacquizz Rodgers, Oregon State Comments: Mayock relentlessly talked up Kendall Hunter at the Senior Bowl, so it's surprising that the former Oklahoma State Cowboy is no longer even in a tie for the five spot. The biggest notable here, particularly from a fantasy perspective, is Leshoure's jump into the two-hole. Mayock said during Senior Bowl week that he wanted to watch more film on Leshoure. After doing so, Mayock has moved the Illinois product into conversation as a top-40 selection. Ingram remains the consensus top draft-eligible running back. Wide Receivers 1. A.J. Green, Georgia 2. Julio Jones, Alabama 3. Titus Young, Boise State 4. Jonathan Baldwin, Pittsburgh 5. Torrey Smith, Maryland Comments: Smith is the newcomer to the receiver top five, overtaking the old cast of Jerrel Jernigan, Randall Cobb, and Greg Little. Mayock's biggest switch was moving Young past Baldwin into the No. 3 position. Chris Wesseling, dominating the Rotoworld news page Thursday, did a post about Young's rise. Baldwin is a physical freak at 6'5/230 with alleged sub-4.4 speed, but there are concerns about his on-field concentration and off-field decision making. Tight Ends 1. Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame 2. Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin 3. Luke Stocker, Tennessee 4. D.J. Williams, Arkansas 5. Virgil Green, Nevada Comments: It's pretty much status quo here, as Mayock's evaluation of Kendricks through Williams did not change after seeing all three of those players on the Senior Bowl practice field. Stocker has drawn comparisons to Jason Witten and Oakland's Zach Miller as a complete tight end. The only change is the dropping out of Tulsa's Charles Clay in favor of Green. Interior Offensive Line 1. Mike Pouncey, Florida 2. Danny Watkins, Baylor 3. Clint Boling, Georgia 4. John Moffitt, Wisconsin 5. Rodney Hudson, Florida State Comments: The old list: 1) Pouncey, 2) Stefen Wisniewski, 3) Watkins, 4) Moffitt, 5) Hudson/Will Rackley. Pouncey is still the likeliest guard/center to be drafted in the first round, and Watkins is emerging as the clear-cut second best interior line prospect despite his age (27 next November). The Football Outsiders just kill it in this breakdown of Watkins and Rodney Hudson. Boling is the newcomer, essentially replacing Wisniewski, who's fallen off the list altogether. Offensive Tackles 1. Anthony Castonzo, Boston College 2. Nate Solder, Colorado 3. Tyron Smith, USC 4. Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin 5 (tie). Ben Ijalana, Villanova; Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State Comments: Mayock has bumped Castonzo into first place ahead of Solder. (Mayock and Castonzo share an alma mater, although we'll assume that's not the reason for the switch.) Castonzo was a four-year starter at B.C. and the Eagles' first offensive lineman in over a decade to start on the offensive line as a true freshman. Smith overtakes Carimi as the more athletic tackle prospect; Carimi is probably ticketed for right tackle in the NFL. Ijalana missed the Senior Bowl due to "double hernia" surgery, but teams must be confident in his health. Wes Bunting of the National Football Post loves Ijalana, FWIW. Defensive Ends 1. Da'Quan Bowers, Clemson 2. J.J. Watt, Wisconsin 3. Adrian Clayborn, Iowa 4. Cameron Jordan, California 5. Robert Quinn, North Carolina Comments: Watt leaped from No. 5 (tie) among defensive ends into the two-hole after Mayock watched film of Wisconsin's Rose Bowl loss to TCU. Watt did not put up big statistics in that game, so it's a good sign that Mayock was impressed even without the pass rusher racking up sacks and tackles for loss. It's also a good sign for Clayborn that he's still considered a top-three defensive end in this year's draft. He only had 3.5 sacks in 2010. Most observers are holding off on Quinn until he performs at the Combine. Defensive Tackle 1. Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2. Nick Fairley, Auburn 3. Corey Liuget, Illinois 4. Stephen Paea, Oregon State 5. Jurrell Casey, USC Comments: In terms of the top of the draft, the most intriguing development is Dareus passing Fairley as the top defensive tackle prospect. Fairley is considered the likely No. 1 pick in many circles. Critics can point to Mayock's ranking of Gerald McCoy over Ndamukong Suh ahead of last year's draft as reason to disagree. Liuget is really picking up steam, as noted in this item on yesterday's news page. Outside Linebacker 1. Von Miller, Texas A&M 2. Akeem Ayers, UCLA 3. Justin Houston, Georgia 4. Bruce Carter, North Carolina 5. Chris Carter, Fresno State Comments: Carter was the 2010 WAC Defensive Player of the Year, but is a 'tweener. He'll appeal to 3-4 teams as an outside rush linebacker. Ayers' best comparison is Karlos Dansby. Houston is sensationally explosive off the edge, though CBS' Rob Rang has questioned his ability to play outside of a 4-3 scheme, calling Houston "one of the more overrated prospects in the draft to this point." Inside Linebackers 1. Martez Wilson, Illinois 2. Colin McCarthy, Miami (FL) 3. Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina 4. Casey Matthews, Oregon 5. Kelvin Sheppard, LSU Comments: Hopefully, your team doesn't need an inside linebacker. Because behind Wilson this is a thoroughly unimpressive group. Cornerbacks 1. Patrick Peterson, LSU 2. Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 3. Aaron Williams, Texas 4. Jimmy Smith, Colorado 5. Brandon Harris, Miami (FL) Comments: Ranked third in Mayock's previous rankings, Harris is slipping after getting torched by Notre Dame wide receiver Michael Floyd in the Sun Bowl. It's probably deserved, especially considering Floyd only got a third-round grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Committee. Smith, as expected, is rising. Latest word from SI's Tony Pauline has Smith looking "sensational" in pre-Combine workouts. Safeties 1. Rahim Moore, UCLA 2. Ahmad Black, Florida 3. Marcus Gilchrist, Clemson 4. Quinton Carter, Oklahoma 5. Deunta Williams, North Carolina Comments: Williams, previously third in Mayock's safety ranks, was recently spotted walking around Chapel Hill with a boot on the foot he fractured in the Tar Heels' bowl game. He seems unlikely to participate in the Combine. Robert Sands and Will Hill have vanished from the list, replaced by Gilchrist and Carter. Go Browns!!!

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Dawg in Dayton #569104 02/11/11 10:42 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	nice post DnD, I think Mayock is the best, but I think he loses credibility putting Anthony Castonzo on the top of the list for OT's. He stunk up the Senior Bowl This year and was never an imposing force as a run blocker. No this pick smells of homerisem. WR's Jon Baldwin over Torrey Smith, just plain crazy. I wouldn't touch him before round 3. 5. (OLB) Chris Carter, Fresno State. You have got to be kidding me. No Mason Foster, and what about Aldon Smith? At 6'5" 260 lbs he is lighter then Quinn and will most likely have to move to OLB.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... FL_Dawg #569105 02/11/11 11:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850 N no_logo_required Legend
no_logo_required Legend N Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850	I disagree on quite a few, but agree it's a good read and Mayock is among the best out there. And just look at that QB list. Good year to give Colt the reigns and see if he can handle it (Kaepernick is really the only QB I wouldn't mind seeing us draft, but 4th round or later and he'll probably be gone with this weak class) #gmstrong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... no_logo_required #569106 02/11/11 12:28 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	Quote: I disagree on quite a few, but agree it's a good read and Mayock is among the best out there. And just look at that QB list. Good year to give Colt the reigns and see if he can handle it (Kaepernick is really the only QB I wouldn't mind seeing us draft, but 4th round or later and he'll probably be gone with this weak class) Yeah, I think Mayock might be shooting for 'shock and ah' and trying to better his ratings by way of controversy. Like those ESPN sux ups! I usually agree more with his rankings then I do here. I'm not always right about who will take whom come draft week, but I could care less if my picks prove to be solid players down the road. At least Mike Mayock stands by his convictions as an prospect analyst. Some players are bound to move up or down after the scouting combine and the many pro days. I try to look past all of that stuff, because most of the time you already have a good feeling of what a prospect can do on film. If he is fast it will show up there... I think the medical evaluation and interviews are more important to the majority of prospects in the eyes of the GM's and Coach's, then the test scores will be at the combine. But it's always nice to open'em up and kick their tiers to see what they are made of QB's.... I like Greg McElroy (as a back up #3) for our new NCO. Not before the 5th round if we draft another QB. If we didn't have Colt, Kaepernick would be on my wish list. The QB's who will be drafted early are far too risky imo to project as a sure thing. If I am a GM drafting early (top 10), I'm not pulling the trigger this year. There's not a big gap between someone you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round imo.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... FL_Dawg #569107 02/11/11 01:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,553 Mourgrym Hall of Famer
Mourgrym Hall of Famer Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,553	"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is especially true when valuing NFL prospects. All these guys with their mocks are pretty funny. Exactly what system are they evaluating these prospects for. Take Randall cobb for example (since I am very familiar with his skill set). Evaluation for a vertical or spread offense, he probably has more value as a returner than as a receiver. Evaluation for a Mike Martz system and he is extremely valuable and more than likely your 3rd rated receiver possibly even #2. Take Colt last year, for a vertical offense there I wouldnt have ranked him in the top 10 but for a WCO QB he was easily top 2. If you want a quick footed pass blocking LT then Solder is your #1. If you want a more balanced pass/run LT then he may not be top 5. Its all just for fun anyway but something to keep in mind when you are thinking how these guys rank.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Mourgrym #569108 02/11/11 05:08 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	Good points and that's why not everyone's draft board will look the same.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Mourgrym #569109 02/11/11 08:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,482 Dayton GraffZ06 Dawg Talker
GraffZ06 Dawg Talker Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,482 Dayton	For myself, when I'm doing prospect rankings I look purely at projectable talent. It's why I rank all my players based on their talent level at their projected NFL position, which is sometimes different from their college position. It's the only way to do it unless you want to compile 32 DIFFERENT prospect rankings. But of course, certain players will have a better skill-set than others based on a particular scheme. In that case, that specific teams board would obviously reflect the different ranking system. It's how guys like Tyson Alualu get drafted 10/15/20 slots higher than they are "projected" or "ranked". Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Mourgrym #569110 02/12/11 09:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 42,874 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 42,874 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is especially true when valuing NFL prospects. All these guys with their mocks are pretty funny. Exactly what system are they evaluating these prospects for. Take Randall cobb for example (since I am very familiar with his skill set). Evaluation for a vertical or spread offense, he probably has more value as a returner than as a receiver. Evaluation for a Mike Martz system and he is extremely valuable and more than likely your 3rd rated receiver possibly even #2. Take Colt last year, for a vertical offense there I wouldnt have ranked him in the top 10 but for a WCO QB he was easily top 2. If you want a quick footed pass blocking LT then Solder is your #1. If you want a more balanced pass/run LT then he may not be top 5. Its all just for fun anyway but something to keep in mind when you are thinking how these guys rank. Never claimed to be a draft Guru but I must say, these thoughts never once occurred to me in quite this way,,, Makes perfect sense., thanks mour #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Damanshot #569111 02/12/11 09:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 39,586 Tennessee B Ballpeen Legend
Ballpeen Legend B Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 39,586 Tennessee	Kind of like a small TV works in some rooms and doesn't in others. If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Ballpeen #569112 02/12/11 10:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 42,874 Aurora, Ohio Damanshot Legend
Damanshot Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 42,874 Aurora, Ohio	Quote: Kind of like a small TV works in some rooms and doesn't in others. Yeah, I guess so #GMSTRONG “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan "Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Damanshot #569113 02/12/11 11:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd L LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker
LOYALDAWG Dawg Talker L Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,338 Lou Groza Blvd	If Holmgren does stick to drafting a QB in the later rounds, I would like to see them try to land Ricky Stanzi. I am not just saying that because I am a Lake Grad either. The kid is a winner, has been a four year starter, can move in the pocket even at 6-4 and 225. I like his skill set and to be able to sit and learn from Holmgren and Shurmer and McCoy with no pressure would be ideal for him. "Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)

Re: Mayock's Top 5... LOYALDAWG #569114 02/15/11 08:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 605 R RocDawg All Pro
RocDawg All Pro R Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 605	I didn't see stanzi play this year, but I wouldn't mind a late flyer on Ponder is he is still there. He impressed me at the senior bowl. Hanlded the pressure great. Looke calm and cool even when things weren't working. Those are leadership qualities. Possibly good Colt insurance. "He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."

Re: Mayock's Top 5... RocDawg #569115 02/15/11 10:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A. B Brownoholic Hall of Famer
Brownoholic Hall of Famer B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A.	From all that I read and hear, Stanzi should be gone by the 3rd round. And I would be shocked if Holmgren/Heckert do end up taking that "token" QB any earlier than the 6th round or even as an undrafted FA. If they really take on at all . . . The late round guys I see pimped the most are Nathan Enderle (Idaho) and Pat Devlin (Delaware). There are also 2 "sleepers" being pimped in Josh Portis (California (PA)) and Chris Dieker (Southern Illinois). But I probably don't go to half the sights or do half the research some of you serious draft guys do . . .

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Dawg in Dayton #569116 02/15/11 12:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,808 Charlotte Jester Hall of Famer
Jester Hall of Famer Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,808 Charlotte	Wasn't sure where to put this but thought it at least news worthy. Da'Quan Bowers - DL - Player Clemson DE Da'Quan Bowers' January knee scope was performed to repair a partially torn meniscus. The Charlotte Observer calls Bowers' status for the Combine "unclear," but most signs point to the potential No. 1 overall pick participating. The surgery was performed almost immediately after Clemson's Dec. 31 Meineke Car Care Bowl loss to South Florida. It's been six weeks since that game. Source: Charlotte Observer http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Jester #569117 02/15/11 12:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850 N no_logo_required Legend
no_logo_required Legend N Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850	would love for teams to overreact to that and let him slip to us. I would prefer Dareus, but I don't think we have much of a shot at any of the 4 guys I love in this class, so I'll take any of them that slip (Dareus, Peterson, Bowers, Fairley in that order). #gmstrong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Jester #569118 02/15/11 01:18 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH FL_Dawg Hall of Famer
FL_Dawg Hall of Famer Joined: May 2008 Posts: 8,660 Austinburg OH	The Combine will be a good barometer if he is 100% or not, but he would still have a Pro Day to impress the GM's and Coach's. The combine very well could decide whether or not Bowers will go #1 after that you have Denver who is moving to a 34, Buffalo is already a 34 and Arizona picking 6th is a 34 as well. I don't know what defense the Panther will run. Do they switch to the 34? I think Bowers best fit is in a 43 defense. That would leave only one other 43 team ahead of us, Cincinnati selecting 4th. I think we are one of only 3 top 6 teams who might select Bowers. We have a descent shot at him I think. If he is not #1 we have I think a 50/50 chance he will be on the board.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... no_logo_required #569119 02/15/11 02:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 42,413 Monrovia, Ca C cfrs15 Legend
cfrs15 Legend C Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 42,413 Monrovia, Ca	I would crap myself if Bowers fell to us.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... cfrs15 #569120 02/15/11 03:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399 DCDAWGFAN Legend
DCDAWGFAN Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 40,399	Quote: I would crap myself if Bowers fell to us. Remind me not to watch the draft with you. yebat' Putin

Re: Mayock's Top 5... no_logo_required #569121 02/15/11 03:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,808 Charlotte Jester Hall of Famer
Jester Hall of Famer Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,808 Charlotte	I honestly believe that both Cam Newton and Blaine Gabbert will be drafted before our pick. I also believe that Von Miller will be taken by one of the 3-4 teams ahead of us. If those three do get drafted before our pick then we will get to choose between players in your top 4 list. Even if I am only right about 1 of those 3 and all 4 of yours preferred players are gone then AJ Green would not be a bad consolation prize. Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no

Re: Mayock's Top 5... FL_Dawg #569122 02/15/11 03:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,753 PDX C clwb419 Hall of Famer
clwb419 Hall of Famer C Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,753 PDX	Quote: The Combine will be a good barometer if he is 100% or not, but he would still have a Pro Day to impress the GM's and Coach's. The combine very well could decide whether or not Bowers will go #1 after that you have Denver who is moving to a 34, Buffalo is already a 34 and Arizona picking 6th is a 34 as well. I don't know what defense the Panther will run. Do they switch to the 34? I think Bowers best fit is in a 43 defense. That would leave only one other 43 team ahead of us, Cincinnati selecting 4th. I think we are one of only 3 top 6 teams who might select Bowers. We have a descent shot at him I think. If he is not #1 we have I think a 50/50 chance he will be on the board. I wouldn't surprised if he is already 100%. That isn't a very difficult surgery to come back from - and he's an elite athlete with a great medical staff. Per Denver, aren't they moving away from the 34 back to a 43?

Re: Mayock's Top 5... clwb419 #569123 02/15/11 04:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,517 Kent, Ohio Buckeyed11 Dawg Talker
Buckeyed11 Dawg Talker Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,517 Kent, Ohio	i tore my meniscus in two places and have arthritis in my knee from soccer. i am 28 yrs old and it took me about 1 month to recover completely. with physical therapy, i could have been back sooner. my knee was really screwed up before the surgery (i could barely walk from the tear) and its perfect now. i would have zero questions about Bowers knee since he is a) younger, b) an elite athlete, and c) its a simple surgery

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Jester #569124 02/15/11 04:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A. B Brownoholic Hall of Famer
Brownoholic Hall of Famer B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A.	Quote: I honestly believe that both Cam Newton and Blaine Gabbert will be drafted before our pick. I also believe that Von Miller will be taken by one of the 3-4 teams ahead of us. If those three do get drafted before our pick then we will get to choose between players in your top 4 list. Even if I am only right about 1 of those 3 and all 4 of yours preferred players are gone then AJ Green would not be a bad consolation prize. I'd be shocked if you were right about BOTH of those QBs. And a tad bit surprised if Von Miller went in the top 5. Anybody starting to want a defensive player regardless of whether or not A.J. Green is still there for us at pick 6? Maybe I'm too confident in Heckert snatching up a good WR in the 2nd. . .

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Brownoholic #569125 02/15/11 04:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,753 PDX C clwb419 Hall of Famer
clwb419 Hall of Famer C Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,753 PDX	I agree with you on both QBs. One I can see, not sure about 2 yet, but the potential is there. Per Von MIller, I wouldn't call it at this point, but I won't be surprised if he goes top 5. On your question of defense even if AJ is there - I've been there the whole time. There are some very good WRs that should be available via FA (whenever that may be) - Jackson was taken off the market (at this point) with the franchise tag, but Malcolm Floyd, Sydney Rice, and Santonio Holmes are all still "available" - as are guys like James Jones, Mike Sims-Walker, and Santana Moss - all huge upgrades. I think we need to make a splash in FA with a WR even if we over pay a little. That allows us to focus on D for the first 2 or 3 picks and with the majority of our 7 picks.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Brownoholic #569126 02/15/11 05:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850 N no_logo_required Legend
no_logo_required Legend N Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850	Quote: Anybody starting to want a defensive player regardless of whether or not A.J. Green is still there for us at pick 6? Maybe I'm too confident in Heckert snatching up a good WR in the 2nd. . . if it's one of the 4 I listed above, absolutely. If not, the best left I think is Cam Jordan. he's a maybe, whereas I think AJ Green is a more assured of being a star. and I like the way Jester thinks. give me some hope (perhaps false hope) that teams will be stupid on draft day and take weak QBs and an overrated OLB before our pick. #gmstrong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Brownoholic #569127 02/15/11 05:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,808 Charlotte Jester Hall of Famer
Jester Hall of Famer Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,808 Charlotte	Right now I agree that my prediction is a stretch but I think all 3 players will be draft climbers in the days leading up to the draft. I think both Qb's will have great pro days and there are enough teams out there in need of Qb's that they will go high. If not top 5 definitely top 10. I envision Washington trading up into the top 6 to get Gabbert. As for Cam, after his pro day I think he will end up going number 1 overall. Not sure it will be to the Panthers, If the CBA is approved before the draft and it includes a rookie salary cap I can easily see someone trading up to grab him. Miller is going to test off the charts at the combine and at his pro day. I project him to be a Shawn Merriman type talent. A lot of teams ahead of us run a 3-4 and I think Miller will become a superstar as a 3-4 OLB (though probably just average as a 4-3 OLB). I would have Miller as my top pick for us at #6 if we would have stayed with the 3-4. These are just my thoughts. The draft is a long way away and a lot of things can change between now and then. Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Brownoholic #569128 02/15/11 11:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,370 A anarchy2day Hall of Famer
anarchy2day Hall of Famer A Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,370	Quote: Anybody starting to want a defensive player regardless of whether or not A.J. Green is still there for us at pick 6? Maybe I'm too confident in Heckert snatching up a good WR in the 2nd. . . Absolutely. I like Green for his pure skills at the WR position but we'll need a top DL or another top CB if we're going to make strides there. We need our WRs to be products of the WCO system and I'm not thinking along the lines of Green. I think more along the lines of Titus Young.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... LOYALDAWG #569129 02/16/11 09:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 11,070 Springfield OH (IO!) Bard Dawg Legend
Bard Dawg Legend Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 11,070 Springfield OH (IO!)	To replace Jake with Stanzi then? I think Wallace is an automatic keeper. "Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Bard Dawg #569130 02/16/11 10:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850 N no_logo_required Legend
no_logo_required Legend N Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850	Quote: To replace Jake with Stanzi then? I think Wallace is an automatic keeper. not so automatic. he wasn't helping Colt, seemed upset that he wasn't starting, and went to the media about a bunch of topics (FOs never like that). there's a decent chance that Seneca is seen as a problem child and sent packing despite being a better player than Jake at this point (assuming Jake is willing to restructure) #gmstrong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... no_logo_required #569131 02/16/11 12:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A. B Brownoholic Hall of Famer
Brownoholic Hall of Famer B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A.	Might as well post this here, in spite of the title being "Mayock's Top 5." Draftcountdown's newest mock. Fairley to us in the 1st. http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Brownoholic #569132 02/16/11 12:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,358 Pflugerville, TX clevesteve Legend
clevesteve Legend Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,358 Pflugerville, TX	Hopefully he'll change his tune. I'm changing my board (I'd forgotten about this.) No cold.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... clevesteve #569133 02/16/11 01:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A. B Brownoholic Hall of Famer
Brownoholic Hall of Famer B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A.	Totally forgot about that. That was a really stupid thing to say. And does any team's schedule, including the desired playoff games, really put them in more good or bad weather games than another's.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Brownoholic #569134 02/16/11 01:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850 N no_logo_required Legend
no_logo_required Legend N Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850	well, I think playing guaranteed divisional games in December against Pitt, Balt and Cinci (all cold weather open-air teams) along with any other home games in open-air cold weather pretty much guarantees the AFC North teams play more bad-weather games than say the NFC South (2 dome teams + TB & Carolina). #gmstrong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... Dawg in Dayton #569135 02/16/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850 N no_logo_required Legend
no_logo_required Legend N Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850	J/C my list of the top guys in this draft. 1. Da'Quan Bowers - he just had his knee scoped for a partial meniscus tear, but that shouldn't affect his draft stock. he is our biggest need and the drafts best overall player. Always good when need meets BPA (of course he will be long gone by our pick). 2. Patrick Peterson - ridiculously good and athletic. best comparison is to Charles Woodson, but I don't think he's quite at the same level. he would definitely be a nice pair with Haden despite our other more urgent needs. 3. Marcel Dareus - I like him better than Fairley. I think he is more of a disrupter while maintaining his lane/balance where Fairley gets himself out of position and is a boom/bust type player on making an impact. They are both really good. I just prefer Dareus (and both will likely be gone by our pick). 4. Nick Fairley - see above. 5. AJ Green - the first on this list that might drop to us. he apparently is a bit of a diva, but then again, he's a WR so we should expect that. he probably wouldn't be too happy moving to cold Cleveland, but too dang bad. 6. Cameron Jordan - he played a 3-4 DE, but he seems as if he'll be better as a 4-3 DE because he's really good at getting penetration and just making life miserable on an OT. 7. Robert Quinn - I don't even like listing him this high to be honest. I hate players that take a full year off football and get drafted high. A big risk but he was really good for UNC before he got suspended. 8. Prince Amukamara - he didn't have INTs because QBs didn't bother to even throw his way. He shut down any WR he was matched up on. We're talking you give him a WR and just leave him alone all day. Not sure how he'd handle the really big, strong guys like Andre Johnson/Anquan Boldin, but we have Joe Haden for them anyway. Again, not an urgent need, but we need talented players. 9. Akeem Ayers - not sure why Von Miller gets so much love because Ayers has played better. He'd either have to adjust to move to our MLB or we'd have to push Fujita to MLB and put him at SOLB though. 10. Aldon Smith - lesser name from a lesser school (Mizzou) but he was really disruptive and can get around the edge with ease. There's enough DE's that one of the above will fall to us, but if we trade down, then he would be a possible target (perhaps someone wanting to overdraft Cam Newton). Not in my top10 because I don't like them for various reasons but many apparently do: Julio Jones (he'd actually be my #11 though) Cam Newton Blaine Gabbert Von Miller Nate Solder (I think he's the 4th best OT and yet I see him listed as a top10 guy?) Adrian Clayborn Anthony Costanzo #gmstrong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... no_logo_required #569136 02/16/11 01:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A. B Brownoholic Hall of Famer
Brownoholic Hall of Famer B Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,234 Columbus, OH, U.S.A.	You're right, no logo. Totally forgot they started cramming divisional games onto the end of everyone's schedules.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... no_logo_required #569137 02/16/11 02:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,089 C CanadaDawg Dawg Talker
CanadaDawg Dawg Talker C Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,089	Quote: 7. Robert Quinn - I don't even like listing him this high to be honest. I hate players that take a full year off football and get drafted high. A big risk but he was really good for UNC before he got suspended. I'm actually starting to sour on Quinn.... watching a bit more film on him, he doesn;t seem to have alot in the line of pass rushing moves...simply relies on quickness to the outside of the tackle. He does show nice awareness on where the QB is going with the ball though which is nice.... Combine that with the fact that his sacks came in bunches against pretty bad teams (3 on Duke, 3 on Virginia) and I think more question marks start to push his grade down.

Re: Mayock's Top 5... CanadaDawg #569138 02/16/11 02:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 42,413 Monrovia, Ca C cfrs15 Legend
cfrs15 Legend C Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 42,413 Monrovia, Ca	What's worse, a guy who sat out the whole year or a guy who had one good season? (Quinn fits both categories)

Re: Mayock's Top 5... cfrs15 #569139 02/16/11 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850 N no_logo_required Legend
no_logo_required Legend N Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 17,850	Quote: What's worse, a guy who sat out the whole year or a guy who had one good season? (Quinn fits both categories) ok, thanks to you and Canada for giving me the confidence to do what I should have from the start. strike Quinn off that top10 list and put Julio on at #10. ok, I feel better now. #gmstrong

Re: Mayock's Top 5... no_logo_required #569140 02/16/11 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,331 Connecticut PeteyDangerous Hall of Famer
PeteyDangerous Hall of Famer Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,331 Connecticut	Quote: not so automatic. he wasn't helping Colt, seemed upset that he wasn't starting, and went to the media about a bunch of topics (FOs never like that). there's a decent chance that Seneca is seen as a problem child and sent packing despite being a better player than Jake at this point (assuming Jake is willing to restructure) Other than Mangini's decision on who to play, what put Seneca in the dog house? I looked through that interview/article long and hard. And I found nothing that was that bad. I will be pretty pissed if we let go of Seneca. What do we do when Colt goes down? Put Give Me A Break - Jake in? He did his job mentoring, but that's also what a QB coach is for. Seneca was with Holmgren for many years. I don't think he's in Holmgren or Heckert's doghouse. He might not want to re-sign here, but if he does, I imagine he will have a spot and Jake will be gone Mangini was the one who didn't play him, he was the coach, he called the shots. He dug his own grave. Just find me what Seneca said to get him in trouble. The only article I found was one from October, and what he said wasn't that bad at all. Otherwise there is no real evidence other than him not playing (Mangini's call). UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball

Re: Mayock's Top 5... PeteyDangerous #569141 02/16/11 08:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,317 M Mattack Dawg Talker
Mattack Dawg Talker M Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,317	Its possible that Daboll had as much or more to do with Wallace not playing than Mangini. We don't know if Daboll and Ryan had that decision making responsibility or not, but I would hope they were allowed to choose which players played in which packages. I mean, how would you feel if you were Rob Ryan and its 3rd and long and you call for your nickle rush package and your boss says to you "you aren't allowed to put Marcus Benard in." Or if you were Daboll and its 3rd and short and you want to smash it and your boss says "you aren't allowed to put Lawrence Vickers in..." I just don't see that as being likely. Which quarterback to go with is a little different than other positions, but I still can't believe if an OC really wanted to design a gameplan based around a quick quarterbacks skillset the HC would say "nope, I don't like that guy." "All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley

Re: Mayock's Top 5... PeteyDangerous #569142 02/16/11 09:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,753 PDX C clwb419 Hall of Famer
clwb419 Hall of Famer C Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,753 PDX	Quote: I will be pretty pissed if we let go of Seneca. What do we do when Colt goes down? Put Give Me A Break - Jake in? He did his job mentoring, but that's also what a QB coach is for. Seneca is an UFA.

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