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Solving a few of the 10 great mysteries of the 2010 Cleveland Browns: NFL Insider
Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In our review of the Browns' 2010 season published in the Jan. 9 Plain Dealer, we listed 10 Great Mysteries of the season.
They were mysteries because there were no answers from coaches, players or executives to explain them. Sometimes it takes a while.
We caught up with Browns General Manager Tom Heckert and he unraveled (sort of) four of the mysteries.
1. Why did the team go so long with only three cornerbacks on the roster?
Heckert: "I think it was a combination of things. There weren't a whole lot of choices in the matter. Once the draft was over, there was just a limited amount of (cornerbacks available). We tried to sign some guys. Realistically, it was going to be tough to get a legit guy.
"We thought we had three really good corners. Eric Wright, whatever happened to him I have no idea. If Eric Wright would have played like he played the year before, we probably would have had one of top (groups of) three guys around. But Eric Wright didn't play very well."
Heckert said as the season progressed, the team couldn't find a cornerback better than Mike Adams, who was a combination safety/cornerback already on the roster.
2. Did the trade of Jerome Harrison really need to happen?
Harrison grumbled about playing time after Peyton Hillis emerged as the team's feature back. Heckert said former coach Eric Mangini lobbied to trade Harrison. He was traded for Philadelphia running back Mike Bell on Oct. 14.
Heckert: "I'm not saying we shouldn't have [traded him] because Jerome ... he wasn't begging to get out of here, but he was acting like he wanted to get out of here. It wasn't going to do us a whole lot of good to keep him here. Jerome was kind of going through the motions. I think he thought he should have been playing more."
3. How can an NFL team that only runs the ball on offense configure its roster to have two running backs and seven wide receivers?
Heckert: "I don't know how to answer that one. I think [the RB depth] was good for a while. When we had Peyton, Jerome and a couple of other guys here, we were OK. But once Eric wanted us to get rid of Jerome, that's when it started [going bad]. Once you get rid of that guy then it's just tough to find guys."
The Browns finished the season with only Hillis and Bell at running back and seven receivers after adding Demetrius Williams, Jordan Norwood and rookie Carlton Mitchell to their active roster.
"The guys we loaded up on are guys we kind of liked and those guys are still going to be here," Heckert said. "Why we didn't use them? That question I can't answer."
4. Exactly why did the team trade for Jayme Mitchell, who never played in a 3-4 defense at any level and doesn't have a body that would ever fit in that scheme?
Heckert described this one as "bizarre."
The Browns acquired Mitchell from Minnesota on Oct. 6. The price was a seventh-round pick in the 2012 draft. Mitchell never played a down while on the active roster the rest of the season.
"He was by far our best pass rusher and never got on the field, so I can't answer that one," Heckert said. "Eric watched him [on tape prior to the trade] and Eric liked him. So I don't know what happened after that. He's a nickel pass rusher on third down. We thought he could really rush the passer."
Heckert said that Mitchell could still fill that role for the Browns in their new scheme. But, guess what? Mitchell's contract is up and he can be a free agent.
Moving into murky waters: If NFL management and players union do not resolve their differences by the end of the current labor agreement on March 3, all business will shut down on March 4. That means no trades, no player signings. Nothing except the draft on April 28-30. And then, draft picks can't be signed until a new agreement is in place.
But from now until March 3, teams can re-sign their potential free agents or sign players that have been released since the regular season ended. Heckert said the Browns have no plans to talk new deals with any of their free agents.
"You don't know if there's a salary cap and what it's going to be, and there's this infamous 30 percent rule, so it's tough to do," Heckert said.
"The infamous 30 percent rule," which came as a result of the elimination of the salary cap in 2010, limits the base salary of any contract extension to no more than 30 percent higher than the previous year on the existing contract. Teams can get around the rule by loading up a new contract with bonus money. But since that form of payment is guaranteed cash, no teams want to invest that way without knowing if there will, in fact, be a full season in 2011.
Brownie points: Despite the clampdown this week on players over 30, Heckert said there are no plans at present to terminate the contract of quarterback Jake Delhomme, 36, who has a year to go at $5.4 million. ... The Browns have seven draft picks in each of the next two drafts. They are without their seventh-rounder this season (Seneca Wallace trade) and in 2012 (Mitchell trade). But they added the sixth-round pick of Denver in each draft (Brady Quinn trade). ... If there is a lockout, trades can still happen on the three days of this year's draft, but they can only include draft picks.
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Last edited by mac; 02/13/11 09:38 AM.
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I wonder if Heckert and Mangini clashed throughout the season. Sounds like they might have, given some of Heckert's comments in this article.
I really wanted to like Mangini while he was here. It just seems like he had a huge ego and did not like being told what to do. I remember seeing an interview with Fujita, and he said during his FA visit he asked Mangini one on one if any of the nasty rumors about him were true.
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Quote:
2. Did the trade of Jerome Harrison really need to happen?
Harrison grumbled about playing time after Peyton Hillis emerged as the team's feature back. Heckert said former coach Eric Mangini lobbied to trade Harrison. He was traded for Philadelphia running back Mike Bell on Oct. 14.
Heckert: "I'm not saying we shouldn't have [traded him] because Jerome ... he wasn't begging to get out of here, but he was acting like he wanted to get out of here. It wasn't going to do us a whole lot of good to keep him here. Jerome was kind of going through the motions. I think he thought he should have been playing more."
3. How can an NFL team that only runs the ball on offense configure its roster to have two running backs and seven wide receivers?
Heckert: "I don't know how to answer that one. I think [the RB depth] was good for a while. When we had Peyton, Jerome and a couple of other guys here, we were OK. But once Eric wanted us to get rid of Jerome, that's when it started [going bad]. Once you get rid of that guy then it's just tough to find guys."
Harrison saved Gini's job.. Harrison had every bit to do with that win streak the Browns pulled to finish the 2009 season. Prime example to me of how a coach may have a talented player on his roster, yet just doesn't simply know how to use them.
Harrison had a nice highlight reel in 2009, yet he gets traded. I have never seen that in my life.
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Quote:
I wonder if Heckert and Mangini clashed throughout the season. Sounds like they might have, given some of Heckert's comments in this article.
I got the same impression from some of his comments. As always, there is more, much more to the story.
So it was Mangini that wanted Harrison traded?
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I appreciate Heckert's candor.
It certainly provided some insight into what he - and I'm sure by extension Holmgren - thought about some of Mangini's decision making.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Yep.. he "lobbied" for it.. lol..
Conversation:
Gini: Heckert, We need to trade Harrison. I don't want him on our team.
Heckert: But.. He finished the season so strong last year. Why?
Gini: WHY? WHY? JUST DO IT!!
Heckert: But..
Gini: Look at my face.. JUST DO IT!!
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So it was Mangini that wanted Harrison traded?
Heckert made the moves Eric wanted, this is good but also bad. Mangini wanted Harrison gone and thats fine but by trading him for Bell, you downgraded the talent level on this team. Mangini wanted Davis gone and thats fine too but again the talent level was downgraded on this team.
I think having andy reid get everything he wanted might have made Heckert more willing to make a bad move to satisfy the coach. Heckert is a very good GM but I didnt like those moves.
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Holmgren was quoted as saying Harrison was traded because he didn't want to be here. Maybe that's just spin, but after the season he had in 2009 - especially the last four games - its easy to see why Harrison would expect to be the starter. Its a shame Mangini couldn't have figured out a way to use Harrison in conjunction with Hillis because it would have diversified the offense and saved a lot of wear on Hillis, which caused him to tail off at the end of the season (imo).
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Quote:
I think having andy reid get everything he wanted might have made Heckert more willing to make a bad move to satisfy the coach. Heckert is a very good GM but I didnt like those moves.
I think it could just be that they were going to give Mangini whatever he wanted this year and let him succeed or fail on his own merits....Mangini wouldn't have been able to point the finger at no one but himself if he was a failure.
I think it's obvious they questioned some of the trade demands and even further questioned what was happening on game day, but this further emphasizes the point that Mangini and the FO were not on the same page. That's a potentially unhealthy, toxic environment. Hopefully, we are past that now with the new regime.
The Mangini-Harrison thing bugs me...I think Mangini owed Harrison a little loyalty. I know we don't have the whole story or all the behind the scenes actions, but why couldn't Mangini make the relationship work? Doesn't matter anymore ...Mangini is gone and that is better for the Browns long-term.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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What you said makes sense, however what's the point of having a guy on the team if the coach isn't going to play them?
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The FO gave Mangini whatever amount of rope he needed to hang himself. Then he did just that.
I'd be willing to bet that once everything that happened with Mangini in Cleveland circulates around the league he'll be hard pressed to sniff a HC job offer again.
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Quote:
The Browns finished the season with only Hillis and Bell at running back and seven receivers after adding Demetrius Williams, Jordan Norwood and rookie Carlton Mitchell to their active roster.
"The guys we loaded up on are guys we kind of liked and those guys are still going to be here," Heckert said. "Why we didn't use them? That question I can't answer."
Guess we will never know.
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4. Exactly why did the team trade for Jayme Mitchell, who never played in a 3-4 defense at any level and doesn't have a body that would ever fit in that scheme?
Heckert described this one as "bizarre."
The Browns acquired Mitchell from Minnesota on Oct. 6. The price was a seventh-round pick in the 2012 draft. Mitchell never played a down while on the active roster the rest of the season.
"He was by far our best pass rusher and never got on the field, so I can't answer that one," Heckert said. "Eric watched him [on tape prior to the trade] and Eric liked him. So I don't know what happened after that. He's a nickel pass rusher on third down. We thought he could really rush the passer."
Heckert said that Mitchell could still fill that role for the Browns in their new scheme. But, guess what? Mitchell's contract is up and he can be a free agent.
I would also describe this one as "bizarre" too.
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I'm probably just a dirty Mangini-lover, but when I read that it sounds like a lot of "blame the guy who isn't here any more". I'm not saying that Eric Mangini didn't ask for Jerome Harrison to be traded or for them to bring in Jayme Mitchell, because I'm quite sure that he did. I just picture Tom Heckert, based on his words, rolling his eyes and saying "yeah, ok Eric, whatever you want".
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It sounds more to me like, hey, don't blame me for all that stupid crap. I'm not going to sit here and protect the idiot that made me look like I don't know what I'm doing.
Holmgren promised to help and support Mangini in every way they could. They did that and were made to look the fool for it.
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Maybe so, but as professionals I expect the people in our front office to work together, not against one another cutting off their collective nose to spite the face. Heckert, as the GM, is the one that ultimately pulls the trigger on the deal, so, whether it was he or Holmgren or Mangini that wanted it, he's the one that made it happen.
Support is not simply giving the coach everything he wants. It also includes advising him against making poor decisions.
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Quote:
So it was Mangini that wanted Harrison traded?
Heckert made the moves Eric wanted, this is good but also bad. Mangini wanted Harrison gone and thats fine but by trading him for Bell, you downgraded the talent level on this team. Mangini wanted Davis gone and thats fine too but again the talent level was downgraded on this team.
I think having andy reid get everything he wanted might have made Heckert more willing to make a bad move to satisfy the coach. Heckert is a very good GM but I didnt like those moves.
Yeah, but a good point was made,, having only 2 RBs on the team when clearly, one was wearing down from overuse.
Then 7 receivers on the roster and not use them?
These are things that don't make sense to me.. on top of which, I'm begining to feel as if I was wrong about retaining Mangini...
In another interview I read,, Heckert was saying that when the decision was made to retain Mangini for another year, they knew what they were risking. They knew by waiting to make that change, they were, without a doubt risking putting the franchise a little further behind.,
But that's yesterdays news.. can't do much about it at this point.
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I think this article sheds a lot of light on what was going on last year. We as fans saw it and many couldn't believe it. Many times it made to sound as if the player was the problem. IMO this article clears some of that up. In the end Mangini's refusal to use proven players on the roster shows that the record and things that happened during the season were directly tied to the coaching staff. Quote:
Heckert: "I think it was a combination of things. There weren't a whole lot of choices in the matter. Once the draft was over, there was just a limited amount of (cornerbacks available). We tried to sign some guys. Realistically, it was going to be tough to get a legit guy.
IMO this solidifies the notion that players didn't want to play for Mangini.
Quote:
Heckert: "I'm not saying we shouldn't have [traded him] because Jerome ... he wasn't begging to get out of here, but he was acting like he wanted to get out of here. It wasn't going to do us a whole lot of good to keep him here. Jerome was kind of going through the motions. I think he thought he should have been playing more."
Sounds to me like Harrison wanted to be here, but Mangini and Daboll's refusal to play him wore on him. Again, this IMO shows that Mangini didn't know how to utilize the talent on the team. When Harrison was used, he was called on to run the same plays Hillis did, when their skill sets were clearly different.
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Heckert: "I don't know how to answer that one. I think [the RB depth] was good for a while. When we had Peyton, Jerome and a couple of other guys here, we were OK. But once Eric wanted us to get rid of Jerome, that's when it started [going bad]. Once you get rid of that guy then it's just tough to find guys."
Again this solidifies my feelings on the subject above. The following statement adds more to the notion that Mangini clearly had issues about using players or no idea of how to use them. I think you can add Daboll to the equation also. The guys the OC, and he has 7 recievers, and while the ones playing were doing nothing, he left the rest on the bench.
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"He was by far our best pass rusher and never got on the field, so I can't answer that one," Heckert said. "Eric watched him [on tape prior to the trade] and Eric liked him. So I don't know what happened after that. He's a nickel pass rusher on third down. We thought he could really rush the passer."
These statements are really bringing to light the Mangini philosophy, or lack of one. I really have to wonder how much power he held over the coordinators. I mean we had no pass rush, yet Ryan doesn't put this guy on the field. My feelings about Mangini are definately changing, and the reputation that he had is IMO being reinforced.
I was one who up until the end tried to give Eric the benefit of the doubt. But who on here can not remember asking some of the same questions that Heckert brings up here? It is clear in my eyes that Holmgren told Heckert to give him what he wanted, and that proved to be his undoing.
I'm waiting for the pro-Mangini crowd to weigh in. I'm sure Heckert will be castigated unfairly. The excuses will flow, and the crap will pile up. These same guys have been blaming Holmgren and Heckert both for some of these moves, I want to see how they defend him now that some facts have come to light.
Bottom line for me, is that this cleared up a lot of questions I had concerning the firing of Mangini, and the play of the team. It seems to me that Mangini did rule with an iron fist. It is also more clearer that his inability to work with the talent on hand is evident. He can and rightfully so, be blamed directly for the lack of talent on this team. His moves with the RBs always baffled me. Harrison and Davis were good back-ups and provided good depth. Their lack of play lead many to believe that the talent wasn't there. IMO that is the farthest thing from the truth.
Fact is Mangini cut his own throat. Holmgren did indeed give him the rope to hang himself. For Holmgren's reputation, I guess it could be considered the proper thing to do, but in reality, it set this team back. I get the feeling Heckert didn't want to keep Mangini, and he knew that him staying would slow the process of building a winner. I can't see how anyone can not see now, that Mangini clearly needed to go. IMO any progress this team made, was diminished by the terrible decisions made by Mangini and his staff.
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Heckert: "I'm not saying we shouldn't have [traded him] because Jerome ... he wasn't begging to get out of here, but he was acting like he wanted to get out of here..."
He wanted out. It was no secret, so he got his wish.
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"It wasn't going to do us a whole lot of good to keep him here. Jerome was kind of going through the motions.
So there, in fact, was no point in keeping him. And it's not like he went to Philly and tore it up.
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I think he thought he should have been playing more."
This is contrary to everything he stated in the two sentences prior, and conveniently ignores the fact that every time Harrison got the ball in 2010, he sucked ass. Let's forget about the run at the end of '09 against crap teams for a second, and remember his total lack of performance in the 2010 preseason, and on into the season. 2.9 ypc? Puh-lease. If he had such a hard on about not getting playing time after Hillis emerged, then he should have stepped up his game instead of putting the ball on the ground and running for negative yardage.
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When we had Peyton, Jerome and a couple of other guys here, we were OK. But once Eric wanted us to get rid of Jerome, that's when it started [going bad].
Who added the words going bad? Grossi? He's an a-hole, and wanted Mangini gone from the beginning. Again, this is revisionist history, Jennings or Davis were going to be cut because we had Hardesty, Hillis & Jerome. Jenning was arrested in April, I'm sure that didn't help his chances, and he didn't survive the final cut, which was no surprise or any big shock. Davis never really produced, and he wanted to be cut, Tweeting, "I finally got my wish," when he was cut. So he went to the Skins and did absolutely nothing there. Exactly where is the "OK", in all this? If Jennings and Davis were such great back ups, then why did Heckert allow them to go? The decisions to cut them must have been mutually agreed upon by all, but now it's being stacked like manure for the sake of a bashing article.
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Once you get rid of that guy then it's just tough to find guys."
This is cop out bull$#!%. It's only tough to find guys if a) there are no guys to be found, or b) you are unwilling or unable to pay their value. Saying you can't find good players because you cut one of your (non-producing) own is complete and utter deflective and petty nonsense.
Finally, I don't trust Grossi to do a fair job of asking these types of questions, or accurately representing the answers. I expect the questions are leading, and the answers are edited in a most negative way. If these quotes are verbatim, then Heckert should either keep his yap shut, be a little more accepting of the responsibility he has as the man in charge of personnel, or at the minimum, be a little more political in his phrasing. This article is nothing more than muckraking and has no bearing on anything other than to bolster Grossi's initial position as an anti-Mangini reporter completely incapable of simply reporting the facts. If we're all supposed to "move on and wait and see," then who gives a crap about any of this except those hoping to foster an agenda of further, irrelevant hate and $#!% stirring?
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Quote:
Quote:
2. Did the trade of Jerome Harrison really need to happen?
Harrison grumbled about playing time after Peyton Hillis emerged as the team's feature back. Heckert said former coach Eric Mangini lobbied to trade Harrison. He was traded for Philadelphia running back Mike Bell on Oct. 14.
Heckert: "I'm not saying we shouldn't have [traded him] because Jerome ... he wasn't begging to get out of here, but he was acting like he wanted to get out of here. It wasn't going to do us a whole lot of good to keep him here. Jerome was kind of going through the motions. I think he thought he should have been playing more."
3. How can an NFL team that only runs the ball on offense configure its roster to have two running backs and seven wide receivers?
Heckert: "I don't know how to answer that one. I think [the RB depth] was good for a while. When we had Peyton, Jerome and a couple of other guys here, we were OK. But once Eric wanted us to get rid of Jerome, that's when it started [going bad]. Once you get rid of that guy then it's just tough to find guys."
Harrison saved Gini's job.. Harrison had every bit to do with that win streak the Browns pulled to finish the 2009 season. Prime example to me of how a coach may have a talented player on his roster, yet just doesn't simply know how to use them.
Harrison had a nice highlight reel in 2009, yet he gets traded. I have never seen that in my life.
Hot...I agree about Harrison busting his rump for Mangini and likely saved his job...the thank you he got from Mangini was...out of here!
I wonder how "that move" played in the locker room?...
My disappoint over the deal peaked when I saw Mike Bell run the ball, especially after Hillis was injured and the Browns needed someone to step up and produce.
It looks like I was giving Heckert more responsibility for this move than he deserved...obviously Mangini pushed for it.
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I guess it boils down to who do you trust more ...Mangini or Heckert ...?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Boy that didn't take long  Quote:
He wanted out. It was no secret, so he got his wish.
You overlook the fact that he wanted out because the staff wasn't playing him. A play here and a play there, and you act as if he was supposed to produce like a starter.
[quotSo there, in fact, was no point in keeping him. And it's not like he went to Philly and tore it up.
e]
He was traded midseason to a team with an effective starter and back-up. You act as if just because they traded for him, he was somehow going to replace the main guy. He replaced a back-up midseason, how much playing time did you expect him to get in a new system on a new team.
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If he had such a hard on about not getting playing time after Hillis emerged, then he should have stepped up his game instead of putting the ball on the ground and running for negative yardage.
Again, getting one play or two a game, and he's supposed to tear it up. Plus did you see the plays called for him? They put him in bad situations to succeed. As for the fumbles, if I'm not mistaken, Hillis had more than him at that point, his were in preseaon mostly.
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This is cop out bull$#!%. It's only tough to find guys if a) there are no guys to be found, or b) you are unwilling or unable to pay their value. Saying you can't find good players because you cut one of your (non-producing) own is complete and utter deflective and petty nonsense.
You call him a non-producing player, when the reality is he never got a chance to produce, again how many carries was he given. So let me get this straight, I'm a FA back, am I going to sign with a team who just cut their top back-up, after he came into the season the leading rusher over the last 5 weeks of the previous season. Who was left on the bench while the starter was run into the ground. Oh yeah, he was also inactive for a game for telling the press he wasn't sure of his role, something most fans and anybody with common sense could see was the truth. You think that when Winslow and Edwards were traded, Cleveland looked like a good place to go? Players don't look at other players the way we fans do, they look at them as peers. When your peers aren't happy with a situation, why would you want to be put into that same situation?
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Finally, I don't trust Grossi to do a fair job of asking these types of questions, or accurately representing the answers. I expect the questions are leading, and the answers are edited in a most negative way
And so the conspiracy continues
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If we're all supposed to "move on and wait and see," then who gives a crap about any of this except those hoping to foster an agenda of further, irrelevant hate and $#!% stirring?
So since this doesn't fit your agenda, it is irrelevent. Talk about calling the kettle black 
I don't see this a stirring anything. Only someone who feels it was done with a negative purpose would. Reading his answers puts into perspective what many thought was happening all along. Heckert needed to clear this up IMO. There were many who tried to pin the blame on Holmgren for these moves, all this did was help the fans understand why the moves were made.
If anything, I like that Heckert was up front about what happened. It also showed that the marraige between the two parties was not all it was said to be. Different philosophies don't usually work out in a team environment.
I find your response a reach at best, but that is just my opinion.
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I guess it boils down to who do you trust more ...Mangini or Heckert ...?
That worries me, to even have to make a decision/analysis like that. It appears obvious to me that their egos were getting in the way of what was best for the team.
Not that it's important now, with Mangini gone.
I still think he was trying hard, but when it came to the point of no return -- that point where the win/loss numbers were not going to surpass a pre-arranged quota (my opinion of behind the scenes) -- then his goose was cooked and that was that.
I am remaining optimistic that we now have an FO that can get this done, a coaching staff that is on the same page with the FO, and the ability to scout out and get some players drafted that can help fill holes,...much like the last few drafts have with the gems that were procured therein. (Thomas, Haden, McCoy, et al,...)
From out here in right field keyboard land, it's all you can really do,...
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Harrison was only going to be happy as the starter ..... so I guess you guys would have preferred that we had made him the starter, and sat Hillis instead? Mangini looked at the AFCN and saw the kind of backs that have been successful and went and got one. He started using Harrison a little bit, but less as time went on. Harrison started the year with weeks of 9 and 15 carries, then word leaked that he was half assing it in practice, and was unhappy. He then got a DNP, a 0 carry game, and a 6 carry game for 6 yards. He was then traded. he then had 239 yards rushing in 9 games in Philly. Wow. Excuse me if I'm unimpressed. Hell, he had 91 yards in 4 games played in Cleveland. He had 4 of his 8 catches and 42 of his 85 yards receiving in Cleveland. Yep ... he exploded when he left here. Andy Reid sure got him to pour on the production. Harrison had a great 3 games at the end of last year, but that was really the exception for his career. Other than that he's been a change of pace, occasionally effective back against a few bad run defenses. Plus, only in the KC game did he really "explode". He had an 8.4 yard/carry in that game, but a rather pedestrian 3.8 yards/carry against Oakland and Jacksonville. He just carried the ball a lot, and kept the chains moving. As far as how the move played in the locker room, I bet it played rather well. Hillis came in and worked his ass off, while Harrison complained and moped. I'm sure the locker room was just fine with him hitting the road.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You call him a non-producing player, when the reality is he never got a chance to produce, again how many carries was he given.
Harrison got 25 carries in the first two games, to Hillis' 17 carries. At this point neither had been named unequivocal starter...it was a still a "RB by committee" setup (Hillis was the starter against TB, Harrison against KC). Harrison ran for 85 yards on those 25 carries; Hillis ran for 76 on his 17. They each lost a fumble.
I wanted Harrison to stay as much as anybody, but he had nobody but himself to blame for his lack of playing time, because it was based on his lack of production compared to Peyton Hillis. He averaged 2 yards a carry against KC and Hillis came on. Mangini rode the hot player and instead of stepping up his game, Harrison pouted in the corner.
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Support is not simply giving the coach everything he wants. It also includes advising him against making poor decisions.
But I am assuming, and that might be a mistake, that there were conversations about all the moves. I doubt very much that Mangini said, "I want this", and no one offered an opinion, advice or other options. Help and support is not being a puppet for him.
However, I do believe that in the end Mangini was sure he knew what he wanted, defended it as he could, won out and got it.
You can have the last comment. I'll let this go because I really don't know any behind the scenes stuff.
I only commented because I don't have a problem with Heckert speaking candidly and doubt very much he was making things up to make Mangini look bad. There was some very questionable things that went on, (which was the point of the article), and it sounds like Heckert didn't want to own what wasn't his.
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I think this is the appropriate thread where I'll accept apologies  Anybody now is able to make a connection between Mangini inserting Harrison on a useless kneel-down, after saying pregame he'd use both him and Hillis, and Harrison "wanting out" after that? Not that it was rocket science 5 months ago... Eric Mangini was the biggest ego in the locker room...all ya Mangini fanboys wanted "proof" for that....well, you just heard some by the GM of the Browns who wasn't brought in by him and had the tough luck to work 1 year "for" him
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"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Harrison was only going to be happy as the starter .....
YT...so you know Harrison?....
Funny thing about this idea of yours, that Harrison had to start to be happy, not once did I read that as fact or hear Harrison say he had to start to be happy in Cleveland.
YT...you have those quotes, where Harrison says he had to start to be happy in Cleveland?
Harrison obviously had talent..in 2009...862 yds rushing..220 yds via passes..1082 yds was 1/4th of the total offense the Browns accumulated in 2009 and he played behind Jamal Lewis for over half the season.
It just seems that Mangini did not do well handling player/coach situations.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Support is not simply giving the coach everything he wants. It also includes advising him against making poor decisions.
But I am assuming, and that might be a mistake, that there were conversations about all the moves. I doubt very much that Mangini said, "I want this", and no one offered an opinion, advice or other options. Help and support is not being a puppet for him.
I am hoping that there were conversations about the moves. And if there were conversations and the decisions were arrived upon as a group, then why aren't the other members of the FO in any way complicit in the moves? Because the initial idea came from Mangini? That doesn't seem like a very healthy relationship to me.
Mangini wanted Harrision gone, but did whose call was it to trade him for Mike Bell? Did Mangini say he wanted Bell? Did Heckert trade for Bell because he was familiar with him from his time in Philly? Who accepts the responsibility for bringing in a player that, quite frankly, sucked?
Like OoohRah said...it seems that Heckert and Mangini were more interested in sparring with one another than they were in working together to improve the makeup of the team. I think its a lot more complicated than the simple black-and-white that a lot of people (especially around here) want to believe it is, and that this article seems to be implying.
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I think this is the appropriate thread where I'll accept apologies
Anybody now is able to make a connection between Mangini inserting Harrison on a useless kneel-down, after saying pregame he'd use both him and Hillis, and Harrison "wanting out" after that? Not that it was rocket science 5 months ago...
Eric Mangini was the biggest ego in the locker room...all ya Mangini fanboys wanted "proof" for that....well, you just heard some by the GM of the Browns who wasn't brought in by him and had the tough luck to work 1 year "for" him
I'm still waiting for you to supply us, well actually just me, with the winning powerball numbers.
PM me when you conjur them up.
I need to pay off my mortgage really bad.
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I'd be willing to bet that once everything that happened with Mangini in Cleveland circulates around the league he'll be hard pressed to sniff a HC job offer again.
He may get another HC job again, but it's not going to be for another 6 or seven years. He'll have to reinvent himself as a DC somwhere and change his approach.
To all the Mangini supporters, can you honestly say that he left a "great" foundation? I give more credit to Heckert for bringing in building blocks like Ward, Haden and McCoy.
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I think this is the appropriate thread where I'll accept apologies
Anybody now is able to make a connection between Mangini inserting Harrison on a useless kneel-down, after saying pregame he'd use both him and Hillis, and Harrison "wanting out" after that? Not that it was rocket science 5 months ago...
Eric Mangini was the biggest ego in the locker room...all ya Mangini fanboys wanted "proof" for that....well, you just heard some by the GM of the Browns who wasn't brought in by him and had the tough luck to work 1 year "for" him
I'd apologize if I felt a need.. But I still don't have one.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Harrison was only going to be happy as the starter .....
YT...so you know Harrison?....
Funny thing about this idea of yours, that Harrison had to start to be happy, not once did I read that as fact or hear Harrison say he had to start to be happy in Cleveland.
YT...you have those quotes, where Harrison says he had to start to be happy in Cleveland?
Harrison obviously had talent..in 2009...862 yds rushing..220 yds via passes..1082 yds was 1/4th of the total offense the Browns accumulated in 2009 and he played behind Jamal Lewis for over half the season.
It just seems that Mangini did not do well handling player/coach situations.
he was traded under the Homie and Heck watch .
it doesn't matter what mangini wanted....those guys hold roster control.
You must not be a fan of the team if you question the move.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I give more credit to Heckert for bringing in building blocks like Ward, Haden and McCoy.
McCoy was Holmgren's guy, not Heckert's.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Harrison was only going to be happy as the starter .....
YT...so you know Harrison?....
Funny thing about this idea of yours, that Harrison had to start to be happy, not once did I read that as fact or hear Harrison say he had to start to be happy in Cleveland.
YT...you have those quotes, where Harrison says he had to start to be happy in Cleveland?
Harrison obviously had talent..in 2009...862 yds rushing..220 yds via passes..1082 yds was 1/4th of the total offense the Browns accumulated in 2009 and he played behind Jamal Lewis for over half the season.
It just seems that Mangini did not do well handling player/coach situations.
he was traded under the Homie and Heck watch .
it doesn't matter what mangini wanted....those guys hold roster control.
You must not be a fan of the team if you question the move.
Guess he's not a fan then.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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#gmstrong
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It is his own criteria for fandom, after all. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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fandom
Yeah, he is one of my favorite comic book hero's
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4. Exactly why did the team trade for Jayme Mitchell, who never played in a 3-4 defense at any level and doesn't have a body that would ever fit in that scheme?
Heckert described this one as "bizarre."
The Browns acquired Mitchell from Minnesota on Oct. 6. The price was a seventh-round pick in the 2012 draft. Mitchell never played a down while on the active roster the rest of the season.
OK, I bet Mitchell was all Mike and Heckert, and if I am right, I think maybe Mangini saw this trade for a 4-3 guy as a sign he was getting fired by the end of the season. I can understand not playing the "Red Flag your going to be Fired Guy", and maybe Mangini saw it as an inside joke, between Mike and Heckert.
Also the odd answer by Heckert of "bizarre" to the question about why we traded for a 4-3 guy. Heckert the Browns GM, had to be involved with, and maybe 100% behind the trade, so how is that "bizarre" ?
And if the reporter is giving a true light of his answer, then why try to shift the blame to Mangini for not playing a guy that was brought over in a "bizarre" (his words) trade...Heckert sounds almost defensive in "He was by far our best pass rusher and never got on the field, so I can't answer that one," Heckert said. "Eric watched him [on tape prior to the trade] and Eric liked him. So I don't know what happened after that. He's a nickel pass rusher on third down. We thought he could really rush the passer."
Something about this trade is just off. 
I feel I am missing something here, if he was that good, Mangini should have played him, even if he was the Rad Flag, because if he could have helped Mangini Win more games and look better for his future job somehwhere else.
Go Browns !!!!
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Yeah, I don't see how he could say that a guy was "by far" our best pass rusher, when the guy has 5 sacks in 5 years, and has hardly played. Maybe he was comparing him just to DEs .... and that might be about the only way that's valid, because our DEs didn't have many sacks at all last year. Hell, Marcus Benard had 7.5 sacks last year, and 11 sacks in his 1st 2 years. Is Mitchell "by far" better than Benard? if so, then why hasn't he shown up yet?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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if so, then why hasn't he shown up yet?
Well maybe because Mangini didn't play him. Sounds to me like Heckert showed him the film and he liked him, then he is brought in and like other players on the roster wasn't played. It is hard to make an impact from the bench. And from what I've seen and now read about Mangini, I find it hard to believe some of these guys didn't have the talent to play. I really see Mangini as very unsure of how to evaluate and use talent.
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