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What a lot of you guys are failing to understand is that Mangini said, pre-game, that he would use both Hillis and Harrison. Then in the game Harrison never got a carry. Not one. He never got onto the field until the victory kneel-down.
When I saw that happen I instantly thought it was a "message" to Harrison. Not once did he touch the field until the kneel down. What about what was said before the game when Mangini said he would use them both but instead gave carries to Davis? Was that a "message" too?
Harrison was in Mangini's dog house and I don't care how it gets translated it can't be denied. That no carries in the game until the last play was evident to me that Mangini was showing Harrison who's the boss.
After the game, when Mangini was asked about that, (because apparently I wasn't the only one who noticed), he claimed he didn't know who was on the field as they were scrambling to get the team out there, (which made it sound like there was no pre-described "kneel-down" players which we all know is crap), they were "scrambling" to get a team on the field. BS
Mangini was being his ego stricken self and shoving his authority on Harrison.
Just think about it, how would any of you feel if your boss said you are an asset to the job and he would make sure you get your hours and then give you one hour at the end of the day? Granted, unlike Harrison who got paid anyway, you would be losing money but it's not all about the money. You know you'd be totally miffed and have some certain choice words for your boss who was such an ass to have done that to you in front of your co-workers.
And what did his co-workers think of that? Was it a "message" to them too? "Do what I say and shut up or you'll find yourself in the same situation!" ?! Davis left shortly after that. It left a team who predominently ran the ball with only two running backs to do it.
Some of you guys can defend that "little man" all you want.
#gmstrong
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If promises were broken, oh well... these are adults and they all have to answer to somebody, most importantly themselves... everybody involved is gone so I agree, time to concentrate on what is still here.. I just don't get all of the Harrison love.. I liked the guy and I don't understand why he had such a hard time staying on the field but he was relatively healthy, we had Romeo for 3 years and Mangini for 2, he had Mo Carthon, Jeff Davidson, Rod Chudzinski, Ryan Daboll as OC... none of them saw fit to make him a feature back type player except for that 3 game stretch... SOMETHING was keeping him off the field and it wasn't just Mangini that saw it.
yebat' Putin
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I just don't get all of the Harrison love..
Just to jump in a second, for me it's not Harrison love. It's Mangini's M.O. If he's a head coach who has his dog house and keeps talented players off the field in favor of those who he thinks cowers to his authority then I think that is crap.
We had a hard enough time winning games at it was without the head coach playing power games with certain players. And if he did that as it certainly looks as though he did, then what other "games" did he play that was not for the best of the team or even for his own best interests as the head coach?
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for me it's not Harrison love. It's Mangini's M.O. If he's a head coach who has his dog house and keeps talented players off the field in favor of those who he thinks cowers to his authority then I think that is crap.
As I said, even when playing behind an aging Droughns and an aging Jamal Lewis, under 2 head coaches and about 4 offensive coordinators, still NOBODY thought to make Harrison a feature back except for those 3 games... so SOMETHING was going on that they all saw, that we didn't.
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Harrison was in Mangini's doghouse because, by his own admission, he had a bad attitude and less-than-stellar work ethic.
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He never got onto the field until the victory kneel-down.
Help me out Ddub.. how many times did this occur.. How many times was Harrison asked to take a knee?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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It sounds to me like Mangini is just getting thrown under the bus for Heckert's work.
Heckert is the reason we only had 3 CB's.
Prp...first, you are "wrong", the Browns had more than 3 CBs on the roster.
If you will read the article again, you will see that there is a qualifier that Heckert used when discussing the CBs.
read it again...
I don't know why I bother even qualifying your replies with a response, but...
.. if you read it again, you'll see that it is the article saying three CB's.... which is what I was referring to.
Here's some direct quotes from the article to point it out plain as day for ya:
First from the author, setting up the section that discusses it:
"1. Why did the team go so long with only three cornerbacks on the roster?"
Next is from Heckert himself:
"We thought we had three really good corners."
Yup, I totally took that one wrong 
I was looking for mac's reply to this post.... did I miss it? 
<><
#gmstrong
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He never got onto the field until the victory kneel-down.
Help me out Ddub.. how many times did this occur.. How many times was Harrison asked to take a knee?
That was the craziest thing I have ever seen... Put the backup out there for one play to take a knee.. I would have been pissed if that were me out there..
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Look, if that was all it took to blow up a player's attitude, then there would be no players in the NFL today. Wow, I mean, put 'em in a diaper and plop them in a crib if they're gonna whine about having to go in for the victory formation .... whether or not they played a single snap in the rest of the game. Boo hoo. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, OK Mr NFL Player.  You still calling yourself an Indians fan while you bash the ownership mac? Still calling yourself a Browns fan while bashing decisions made by the current braintrust? That does go specifically against your on stated definition of being a fan .... so I just wanted to checkk whether your rules apply to you .... or do you just try to apply them to everyone except yourself? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Look, if that was all it took to blow up a player's attitude, then there would be no players in the NFL today.
Wow, I mean, put 'em in a diaper and plop them in a crib if they're gonna whine about having to go in for the victory formation .... whether or not they played a single snap in the rest of the game. Boo hoo.
This is about my thoughts on it, too. The amount of importance being placed on that single kneel down around here is absolutely ludicrous. Stupendously stupid, even.
The way I see it is that Harrison always had a weak work ethic and I firmly believe that he thought he could rest on his laurels because of how well he finished 2009.
He didn't realize that what he did in 2009 doesn't buy him jack-squat in 2010, and he lost his starting job to the new guy... and he got salty about it and instead of taking it as a wake up call to get his butt back to work, he soured and did nothing to take his starting job back.
Meanwhile, the dude that busted his tail - and opponent's heads - took the starting job and ran with it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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He never got onto the field until the victory kneel-down.
Help me out Ddub.. how many times did this occur.. How many times was Harrison asked to take a knee?
That was the craziest thing I have ever seen... Put the backup out there for one play to take a knee.. I would have been pissed if that were me out there..
I guess I don't see the significance of this ONE move. I can't believe the amount of time being wasted talking about one play.. it's almost as if no other coach on the planet ever did something like that..
I mean, there are plenty of reasons not to be enamoured with Mangini,, this is certainly far far from the top of the list..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/k Y'Town
Alright, I can't stand it any longer. I have to ask. I've been reading most of you for the past 3-4 weeks. Y'Town, Prp & a few others have lambasted H&H for the nth time. WHAT FAILS TO BE DISCUSSED seems to be that:
When Holmy & Heckert arrived last year, we were all jumping up & down with joy. NOW that things seem to be coming out as to why Ginni did not work out with H&H it's all the sudden different??
H&H have been in the game for yrs. As soon as they made changes THEY deemed necessary (for a few of you anyway), It's off with their heads? WHY? Because you don't agree with 2 people that have been running teams for years? Now all of the sudden, THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING STUPID PILLS? Now you & I both know that is not true. I find it hard to believe that H&H just happened to forget everything they learned over the years. DO YOU GUYS REALLY BELIEVE THAT? COME ON! Let the people in charge run the team like they know how, & you will be surprised at how well they do.
I just can't believe the arrogance of some on here that think they know better than the pro's. Y'Town, you of all people should know how much you disliked Django & all his ranting about Ginni, and now you sound just as bad as he did, Just because some things were done you did not agree with? Your better than that. GO! BROWNS!
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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it appears to be our winter of discontent
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Meanwhile, the dude that busted his tail - and opponent's heads - took the starting job and ran with it.
to add onto that
let us make sure to note that Hillis obviously won the starting job in the preseason. if it wasn't for his 2 fumbles against TB, then Harrison would have likely been complaining much earlier.
look at the carry split before Hillis' 2nd fumble that game. I believe it was a 10:1 discrepency (or similar). Mangini already knew by that point who our best RB was and it was only Peyton's carelessness with the FB that even gave Harrison his opportunity (and how good was our offense the 2nd half against TB again?).
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it was only Peyton's carelessness with the FB that even gave Harrison his opportunity (and how good was our offense the 2nd half against TB again?).
Yeah, it was Harrison who blew that game as well as all those other 2nd Half meltdowns where he didn't even play....all him... 
unreal
#gmstrong
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You're wrong. Again. It absolutely matters who you play, and when you play them. I am simply flabbergasted that you haven't figured that out yet. He showed something during the final three games of '09 against no talent teams that didn't care.
This is so priceless...this line by some of EM's frontrunning cheerleaders, who argued to keep EM BECAUSE of this season end run...
I don't know how much nerves I lost arguing with argument resistent guys like you about this...and all of a sudden those games were meaningless...go figure, they weren't all that meaningless when you guys defended EM after the 09 season...I sure didn't forget that
#gmstrong
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I don't know how much nerves I lost arguing with argument resistent guys like you about this...and all of a sudden those games were meaningless...go figure, they weren't all that meaningless when you guys defended EM after the 09 season...I sure didn't forget that
The guy since he became a Brown averaged over 4 yards a carry, but yeah he sucked and Mangini was right to let him languish on the bench while he ran Hillis in the ground Every "arguement " I read above is about Harrison starting. That was never the intent, it was more about utilizing a change of pace guy, and Mangini's tendency to put guys in the dog house.
I can't take the nonsense that is flying around here about this article. This site is turning to crap before my eyes. I thought it couldn't get worse than the Couch/Holcomb days, but some of these so called "arguements" are just downright stupid.
#gmstrong
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it was only Peyton's carelessness with the FB that even gave Harrison his opportunity (and how good was our offense the 2nd half against TB again?).
Yeah, it was Harrison who blew that game as well as all those other 2nd Half meltdowns where he didn't even play....all him...
unreal
Umm ..... let's see .... Harrison played in the 1st 2 games last year, he DNP against Baltimore, then he was active against Cincinnati and Atlanta. ("Famously", zero touches against Cincy, then 6 for 6 yards against Atlanta) He was then dealt to Philly.
So .... he was with the Browns for 5 weeks ...... 1 of which was a win ...... so what were all of those 2nd half meltdowns? I mean, we lost our starting QB after week 1 .... and then the backup in week 5. Think that may have had a little more to do with offensive inconsistency at that point than a backup RB?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The guy since he became a Brown averaged over 4 yards a carry, but yeah he sucked and Mangini was right to let him languish on the bench while he ran Hillis in the ground
He averaged 6 yards a carry for the Eagles while LeSean McCoy only averaged 4.7 yards a carry since he has been there. Why'd they only give him 40 totes there? Maybe it was because if you take away his occasional long run you are left with someone that averages 2.1 yards a carry? That couldn't be it, now could it?
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You're wrong. Again. It absolutely matters who you play, and when you play them. I am simply flabbergasted that you haven't figured that out yet. He showed something during the final three games of '09 against no talent teams that didn't care.
This is so priceless...this line by some of EM's frontrunning cheerleaders, who argued to keep EM BECAUSE of this season end run...
I don't know how much nerves I lost arguing with argument resistent guys like you about this...and all of a sudden those games were meaningless...go figure, they weren't all that meaningless when you guys defended EM after the 09 season...I sure didn't forget that
Every time someone disagrees with you or calls you out on the revisionist history you throw around as truth, the first words out of your mouth are to call them "EM's frontrunning cheerleaders"
Riddle me this,,, why,when Mangini gave Harrison the chance, did he not produce?
And since he didn't produce, and someone else did, why wouldn't the playing time be given to the guy that DOES produce..
What's worse is, you know this. you aren't some dumb guy that fell out of a turnup truck last night.. The players that produce when given a chance are the ones that get to play more. That's as old as the hills man..
Mangini was fired, you got your wish.. Congrats. Not sure it was the right move, but we'll see in time.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Maybe it was because if you take away his occasional long run you are left with someone that averages 2.1 yards a carry? That couldn't be it, now could it?
C'mon, if you're gonna do that a lot of guys start to look bad. That's a bogus argument and you know it.
At this point I could not care less that Harrison is gone. He was OK but he's never gonna be a star.
Sorta like Mangini....... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I agree....Hillis is better, he gets more carries....that's not the problem here, it's the way he treated Harrison leading to his trade, which was a clear downgrade....Mangini talked up Harrison pregame (1st Cincy game) coming back from injury and then he didn't give him even 1 carry and to make things worse he inserts him on the kneel down formation....that's simply insulting no matter how you look at it. He basically mobbed a player away, which ended up hurting his team and ultimately (and that's the irony) himself....it's symptomatical for his entire tenure. I still think I have a valid point by saying he was the biggest ego walking around Berea
...and riddle me this: how come that now that we're talking Harrison's late season surge in 09 those games were "meaningless" and opponent's were bad according to Cal, who was and is to this day a Mangini fanboy, and when debating Mangini post-09 those games were "signs", a "winning streak" "pointing in the right direction"...PROCESS....do you remember? What is it now...if those games were meaningless as I (one of few) said back then, we should have fired him there and then, right? (which would have been the right decision all along)
This isn't even about me being right about some past flak I had to endure, I know I was and am confident in my judgement of what I see....but damn, try at least being consistent with your arguments...that's all I ask by now
#gmstrong
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"EM's frontrunning cheerleaders"
daman...do you deny that there is a group of "Mangini Cheerleaders" on this board?
They are the same folks who cheered when Lerner hired Holmgren...
They are the same folks who cheered Holmgren's decision to give Mangini another year to judge his body of work as the Browns HC...
They are the same group who defend Mangini's second 5-11 season, resorting to "stats" not "wins", in an attempt to show Mangini deserved another year.
They are the same group who now attack Holmgren and Heckert and defend Mangini...living in some fantasy world, believing Mangini had the Browns close to achieving the goals Holmgren established when he was hired.
Calling this group/squad of board members "EM's frontrunning cheerleaders" is pretty mild, imo.
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If you're pro-Mangini, you're going to take any article...any news that comes out and spin it to favor your point of view with speculation about what really happened behind the scenes without really knowing anything. You're going to spew a bunch of stats to support your agenda. You come across as a jaded ex-girlfriend.
If you're anti-Mangini, you're going to do the exact same things...just in the opposite direction. It's exhausting to read. Not sure why I continue to come back to this place sometimes. It's like a train wreck I can't pull my eyes away from.
But the bottom line is this...the results under Mangini were well below average. I don't care about stats or that there were a few token wins. The bottom line results were sub-par.
We have yet to see results of the new regime since they haven't played a down of football yet. They might be the same as Mangini....maybe they'll be better or maybe they'll be worse...but it's not like we let a HOF coach walk. There was no guarantee of success with Mangini and no proven track record to speak of. I'm just alarmed at how upset people are about his being let go.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Bottom Line Jango,,, Harrison WAS given the opportunity to produce.. and he didn't. Hillis was given the opportunity to produce.. and he did..
Who the hell cares about how a guy was treated just before being traded.. Being traded should tell you all you need to know. he wasn't thought well enough of to retain. You take a simple thing like that and turn it into a Mangini hatefest.
Mac,,, there you go again, asking stupid questions.. Trying to trap people.
Man, there isn't a person on this board dumb enough to fall for your bull anymore... Grow the hell up
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/15/11 09:32 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Let me ask you a couple of honest questions ....
Do you consider Harrison to be below average, average, above average, or exceptional as a RB, and why?
Which RB, Harrison or Hillis, would you pick to start for a team in the AFCN?
Personally, I consider Harrison to be on the low side of average. He had a really tremendous game against Kansas City. He had good games (with 30+ carries) against Oakland and Jacksonville.
He did produce when he got 30 or so carries, but that was usually against the dregs of the league. He's been around for 5 years, and went through 2 staffs here ... and he'd be somewhat productive, and then vanish. Then he went to Philly, and did OK. He had a game with an explosive run, and another decent game at the end of the year, but again against bad run defenses.
I ok at him as a guy who can produce, but only in certain situations. He has to be "spotted" as opposed to being an every day/every down back.
Given that Harrison has done very little against the AFCN, and that we face physically tough and fast defenses, I prefer a back like Hillis.
Which do you prefer, and why?
I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. Instead of asking which one would you take between Hillis and Harrison, I think the proper question to ask would be which would you take to spell Hillis, Harrison or Bell?
I think that is why it was a bad trade and/or situation. You said as much in your post, Harrison is productive in certain situations. Why couldn't we have used him properly and capitalized on his ability to produce in those situations instead of trading for a guy who couldn't produce in any situation? I think its just another example on a long list of them of bad coaching via misusing personnel. But, I think that is way more on Daboll than Mangini. I don't know, but I would venture to guess an Offensive Coordinator has control over who plays in what packages when he calls the play.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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OK, which would you rather have ...... Harrison, who from reports was half assing it in practice, and was clearly upset at having been replaced as the starter ....... or Bell, who might not be as talented as far as speed goes, but who has been effective in the past as a starter, and who should have fit the offense we ran?
Bell has had 2 stretches where he has been an effective, if unspectacular RB. (2006 for the Broncos, and 2009 for the Saints) He's run for 1400 yards and 14 TDs, so he's not a complete bum. He's a backup. It did seem to take him a while to get going with the offense, which was disappointing. He did run effectively against Baltimore, and decently against Pittsburgh in the carries he received, and given the strength of those defenses.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Damanshot, I am with you. Done talking Mangini and who did or did not do something right or did wrong by somebody. EM is gone, RIP reputation. Props for the hard things well achieved. But Harrison's performance and opportunity, or lack thereof, is a pointless reach. I am THRILLED with PH and what he achieved. He has become the face of the Browns. JH did not produce well enough, and was off his previous season's highlights. Hard to judge backs with the dumbed down offense we spooned up all year. Could not have made it tougher on a back if our "OC" sat down and tried to fail. We need a different ground game that works. Here's to looking ahead. Answering all the questions about EM to your satisfaction results in net zero. I can't see purpose in pursuing that, especially at length meself.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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j/k Y'Town
Alright, I can't stand it any longer. I have to ask. I've been reading most of you for the past 3-4 weeks. Y'Town, Prp & a few others have lambasted H&H for the nth time. WHAT FAILS TO BE DISCUSSED seems to be that:
When Holmy & Heckert arrived last year, we were all jumping up & down with joy. NOW that things seem to be coming out as to why Ginni did not work out with H&H it's all the sudden different??
I too was jumping for Joy yet MH sobered me when a) he pronounced Jake still a top QB when he signed him> I wretched.
Or when he pronounced the team needed no veteran wr help when we had the WORST SET OF WRS IN THE NFL, yet I am sure I had lots of company here as well.
Or when we drafted and picked up in free agency Mr. Glass 1 &2(Hardesty and Pashos) and Both (surprise) mised the entire year with injury. So then when mangini is shoved out the door and we do NOT retain Ryan or Seeley and hire yet another inexperienced head coach..my jumping for joy is getting no air.
H&H have been in the game for yrs. As soon as they made changes THEY deemed necessary (for a few of you anyway), It's off with their heads? WHY? Because you don't agree with 2 people that have been running teams for years? Now all of the sudden, THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING STUPID PILLS? Now you & I both know that is not true. I find it hard to believe that H&H just happened to forget everything they learned over the years. DO YOU GUYS REALLY BELIEVE THAT? COME ON! Let the people in charge run the team like they know how, & you will be surprised at how well they do.
While we agree changes were necessary the remedy is what is disagreed. While Holmgren did not forget I also cannot forget those previous "curious" moves and I wonder what has Mike forgotten or is it stubborness. He still has more football knowledge in his pinkie than all four previous front offices combined( Policy, Clark, garcia, Opie, Kokikis) so there is still reason for hope...yet this could get REAL ugly.
Say Shurmie is as bad as I fear and we crash(with the much easier schedule) to 3-13. Will MH and front office keep their job and high $$$$ on the merits of 5-11 and 3-13?
We need heckert to have a fantastic free agency period( Not sell chumps to the fans as great additions: Pashos and Jake). Or make ludicrous pronouncements( we need no veteran WRs) and expect a fan base long suffering under mind numbing front office incompetance to just smile because Mikey said it.
I just can't believe the arrogance of some on here that think they know better than the pro's. Y'Town, you of all people should know how much you disliked Django & all his ranting about Ginni, and now you sound just as bad as he did, Just because some things were done you did not agree with? Your better than that.
Is it arrogant to Question highly suspect moves. not retaining Ryan and dumping Shaun Rogers continues in the post Mangini era and is all Mike and tom. I won't cheer when I don't agree, call that Arrogance if you like. I see it more as being stuck in a long Groundhog Day of incompetence and while I expect More from this front office..they will have to PROVE it. What you did in GB is nice but what you do in Cleveland is what matters to me. Mocking fans as arrogant who only want better and will not rubber stamp moves they disagree with happens when you have a fan base that cares about this team like family and wants to win bad.
I remember the words of Butch davis who first said he loved the passion of browns fans and when he crashed and burned told them to "get a life". Mikey is a big boy. he took the $$$$ of lerner to do the job. I could care less what he did yesterday. i respect it yet i want hime to do the same here. those moves I do not agree with or disagree strongly I will say my piece as will all fans of this board. are youfirst Command of Homlgrens "ministry of truth"?
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it was only Peyton's carelessness with the FB that even gave Harrison his opportunity (and how good was our offense the 2nd half against TB again?).
Yeah, it was Harrison who blew that game as well as all those other 2nd Half meltdowns where he didn't even play....all him...
unreal
yes, i was blaming Harrison for all our 2nd half meltdowns and really the whole season. all his fault  (and you give me the )
no, what I merely said was that Mangini had determined Hillis was his starter in preseason. that Hillis wasn't going to give up many carries as determined by our offense (shown in the 1st half of that game), but he had a fumbling problem in the first game, which gave Harrison an opportunity to show Mangini and staff they were wrong to not give him more carries. And, he did not produce given that opportunity.
Nothing less, nothing more. Even if you would like to try to twist what I said. Thanks 
(also, not that it matters, but I was in Harrison's corner. Thought he should be given more opportunities and was extremely surprised he wasn't early in that TB game. But, when Harrison got the ball last year, he wasn't producing. Maybe he was just moping in practice/games that he wasn't the starter, maybe he had a few bad games, but bottom line he wasn't playing well)
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So we got "by far our best pass-rusher" for a seventh-round pick? I find this hard to believe. Also, wouldn't it be Rob Ryan's decision to play this guy or not?
Harrison was inconsistent, also had injury problems, over several years with several coaches. I was hopeful that he could be an excellent complement to Hillis, but he failed to perform.
It has been unusually cold in Florida this year, is this Mangini's fault?
I don't know if EM was good, bad, or average as a coach. I do know that I wish we had the same coach, and same defensive scheme, going into next year's easier schedule. Along with SOMEBODY who could run an offense. Hopefully we at least have that last part.
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Hey Joe, While I agree with some points (QB), although I think MH signed him more for Vet. Leadership & he did look good coming out in the first QTR. I think there was an effort made to bring in a WR, at least early in the year. I think this because: As the season progressed MH kept refering to WR's not being used & at even one point said something about he was not even sure our O used WR's anymore. I think EM & BD both told him they were fine with what they had. They were looking for a power ground game more than anything, & when they did throw well, we did have 5-6 WR's on the team. And yes I do think BD was not concerned with the WR's. He did not & cannot envision a WR streching the field. I know the talk about how H&H should have overrode EM & got him what they thought was the right pieces, BUT........I think they thought if they showed EM they were willing to do it his way, then when it was their turn to have input & expected EM to show the same kindness in return, he balked. If you followed till the end of the yr. then you should be able to see the bad blood that was coming, the last 3 games were really telling. Our O went in the tank, it was as if EM was telling MH that he knew how to run his O & it showed. We got to the point that we would run even when we knew PH couldn't even run on the field. Maybe I am reading to much into this but...man, I've been the first to admit that I'm not the brightest buld in the socket, but even I could see the tension between the FO & EM. I really believe that EM was dead set on showing the big bad Holmy that he could do it his way & win. You know what? I think we win the last 4 games & EM was still gone. Thats how bad it was. The FO did no more than give EM everything he wanted, I think, knowing that he was not the one & wouldn't work with them. Pretty simple really. I also think Heckert got the DE from the Vikes, simply because EM said he liked him. When he got here EM was not gonna use him because He(EM) did not demand him, therefore he wouldn't use him. Pretty bizzare huh? EM's ego did him in. I think he showed everybody that it was his way or the highway. And no you don't have to ask if I escaped the luny bin. Thats my feelings on the matter. 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Maybe it was because if you take away his occasional long run you are left with someone that averages 2.1 yards a carry? That couldn't be it, now could it?
How about we take away all the "occasional" long runs from all the top backs, what would their average be. I see what you are trying to say, but those long runs counted, so taking them away is not a fair thing to do.
How about we take away all of Mendenhall's "occasional" long runs, or maybe even Adrian Peterson's. An average is an average, you get short runs and long runs, Hillis did it too.
The arguements here make Harrison sound like a scrub bum. That is what urks me. Until he got to start, under Crennel and Mangini, when he played he built a good average. When he did start, he kept that average up by breaking some long ones. I can't see how busting long runs can be held against the guy. Plenty of backs have quite a few 1 and 2 yard runs, then bust off a 10+ carry, I guess in your mind, the 10+ yarder shouldn't count.
The BS about the teams he put up the 500 yards on is another thing. I guess any back that had success against any of these teams, should get an asterisk next to their name. It's the NFL, I guess if a team has a bad run defense, your back should be told to hold back, because the fans won't give you any credit anyway.
When Jamal Lewis put close to 300 yards on us in his big season, I didn't see any sports writers discounting that game because he played the Browns. Not comparing Jerome to Jamal, just the situation.
I can' see why this guy can not get any credit. I saw noone doubting Hillis in the couple games where he only averaged a couple yards a carry. Maybe we should discount any "occasional" big run he had to and cherry pick all his 1 and 2 yard carries when we talk about his average.
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Why are we even talking about this guy??
He isn't on the team, and the coach who elected not to play him isn't either.
Bottom line, as a coach, I would rather hand the ball to Hillis and bank my 4 yards rather then hope Harrison breaks his 40 yarder.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree time to move on, but again, the arguement was not about him starting or playing instead of Hillis, it was being used to spell Hillis.
But not to nitpick, but the thread was about 10 great mysteries of 2010
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Hey, you're right. So how about this mystery...
The Browns are in the Red Zone but run out of time and therefore lose an offensive scoring opportunity (a play) because the head coach was more worried about the other team scoring from 60 yards out with less than 30 seconds to go than he was his own team scoring right now.
Then, to start the half, the head coach calls an onside kick, which is no better than 50/50, knowing full well that if the opponent gets the ball they'll have a scoring opportunity from 40 yards out with 30 minutes to go.
I don't care where you're from, that there there's a mystery there.
If I wanted to claim a conspiracy citing the head coach wanted to get tossed out of town I'd say that would be a pretty good way to ensure it would happen.
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Quote:
The arguements here make Harrison sound like a scrub bum. That is what urks me. Until he got to start, under Crennel and Mangini, when he played he built a good average. When he did start, he kept that average up by breaking some long ones. I can't see how busting long runs can be held against the guy. Plenty of backs have quite a few 1 and 2 yard runs, then bust off a 10+ carry, I guess in your mind, the 10+ yarder shouldn't count.
He built average with his long runs. Without those, he is a less than average back. We've had this same convo on here before and I never said the 10+ yarder shouldn't count. What I said and what I stand behind is if you take away the 79 and 60 yarders then you will get a better indication of a player's truer average YPC. (unless he were to pop one each week for 40+ then including it would not be outside the norm)
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So we got "by far our best pass-rusher" for a seventh-round pick? I find this hard to believe.
nelson...we will never know if the guy does not play, will we?
You must admit, it is a little odd for a coach to want a player, trade a draft pick for that player who occupies a roster spot, dresses for the games, but never see the football field and is now a free agent.
Late round draft pick, "given away", for what?
BTW, Rob Ryan is not the Head coach...
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Harrison was inconsistent, also had injury problems, over several years with several coaches. I was hopeful that he could be an excellent complement to Hillis, but he failed to perform.
nelson...Harrison is gone...we now have Mike Bell...lets hope Shurmur can fit him into the offense though he has never been much of pass catcher and his running style produced little last season.
BTW, Mike Bell is a free agent too, but Mangini wanted Harrison gone...mission accomplished...
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It has been unusually cold in Florida this year, is this Mangini's fault?
Nelson...that is your opinion...Florida was a lot warmer than northern Ohio...and again, Mangini is gone.
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I don't know if EM was good, bad, or average as a coach.
nelson...Mangini was 10 wins and 22 losses in his two seasons as the Browns HC...that is "bad"...but he is gone.
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I do know that I wish we had the same coach, and same defensive scheme, going into next year's easier schedule. Along with SOMEBODY who could run an offense. Hopefully we at least have that last part.
nelson...you can wish and pray all you want, but Rob Ryan is gone too.
You can support the present coaches and players of the Browns or you can dream about supporting those coaches and players that used to be here...
...you can live in the past or live in the present.
...you can fantasize about the past or face the reality of the present.
I say...GO BROWNS... 
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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It has been unusually cold in Florida this year, is this Mangini's fault?
Nelson...that is your opinion...Florida was a lot warmer than northern Ohio...and again, Mangini is gone.
Actually that would be FACT and not opinion, based on Florida has had it's coldest winter since 1981 based on average temperature.
He made no comparison to Ohio's weather.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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