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I think Denver
Controls who we draft. Think about it:
Panthers - Will more than likely draft Nick Fairley
Broncos - Will take either Da'Quan Bowers or Patrick Peterson.
Bills - After releasing Stroud they almost have to draft Dareus for their 3-4 defense.
Cincinnatti - Ochostinco sucks, TO is probably done. I see them taking AJ Green
Arizona - All signs point towards them taking Von Miller.
And that leaves us. I honestely think whoever Denver does not draft is who we pick.
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I don't think it is nearly so cut/dry. Quote:
Panthers - Will more than likely draft Nick Fairley
Or Bowers who I think is better and a more high profile NFL position.
Or Cam Newton if they talk themselves into it (ala SF with Alex Smith)
Or maybe they think Peterson is the BPA in this draft.
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Broncos - Will take either Da'Quan Bowers or Patrick Peterson.
Or Dareus or Fairley.
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Bills - After releasing Stroud they almost have to draft Dareus for their 3-4 defense.
I'm sort of giving up on trying to predict who they will draft. They always seem to reach for someone unexpected with their picks and they generally do okay but not great.
But, they do need DL and OL help and there are more DL factored elite; so common sense would say whoever drops from Fairley or Dareus. If both are gone, who knows. Probably BPA which is Peterson for them.
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Cincinnatti - Ochostinco sucks, TO is probably done. I see them taking AJ Green
agreed that AJ Green makes the most sense to them, but...
they have Shipley, CJ, Caldwell and Simpson. WR is a need but they have others more urgent ones. Leon Hall only has one year left though it would seem silly for them to draft Peterson now for that with so many other needs (it is the Bengals though).
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Arizona - All signs point towards them taking Von Miller.
Except the one that says Von Miller is all hype. Maybe that's enough for him to get drafted on.
Other options include any of the top defensive guys that drop mentioned above, Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, or even Ayers or Cam Jordan (both of whom I personally think are better than Von Miller)
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And that leaves us. I honestely think whoever Denver does not draft is who we pick.
I honestly hope you are correct as I think Bowers and Peterson are the best 2 talents in this draft, but I don't see it that way right now.
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Quote:
Except the one that says Von Miller is all hype. Maybe that's enough for him to get drafted on.
28 sacks in two years in a legit division? I'll take that hype all day.
Respect that folks have differing opinions but all signs point to Von Miller being damn good.
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My computer sucks
The Panthers already have a very good pass rusher at DE. They have 0 DTs. I have no idea why they would draft a corner #1 when they already have 2 good ones. I would LMAO if they drafted newton.
Bills. yeah you are right but there front 7 was attrocious and they are switching to a 3-4.
Cincis WRs suck, so I doubt they pass on Green. Especially considering there QB is threatening to leave.
Arizona needs a pass rushing OLB. There head coach has shown a trend of drafting seniors who beast at the senior bowl (with the exception of Chris Wells)
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Quote:
Quote:
Except the one that says Von Miller is all hype. Maybe that's enough for him to get drafted on.
28 sacks in two years in a legit division? I'll take that hype all day.
Respect that folks have differing opinions but all signs point to Von Miller being damn good.
it may be that I've seen too many A&M games and seen him disappear for long, long stretches rather than being a consistent nuisance to the opposing offense, but I watch him play and I don't see top10 NFL material. Ayers and Jordan seemed to have more impact on the games when I saw them play.
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you gave sound reasons, but, at the same time, I just don't see them as slam dunk picks. I hope you are completely correct and will be cheering for your scenario.
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I'm thinking Patrick Peterson falls to us.. and i LOVE it!!! I'm seeing more and more mock drafts with this happening..
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Question is ... if Peterson is there would we pull the trigger on him?
I dont know if a franchise that spent a first and a second last year on the secondary spends another first on it this year? Especially if we have needs on the dline and hypothetically Quinn, Dareus, or Jordan could be there?
Heck we **could** even see it play out that someone like Green is there with Peterson if one or both of the quarterbacks were to be drafted before us... I would love to see a Haden - Peterson combo... I just honestly don't know what our front office would do ?
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Having 2 great corners can change a game on defense.
Look at the jets. Not one guy had double digit sacks. Look at the Packers, They are 3 deep at CB.
With a likely rookie salary it might not cost a ton to land PP. He has unreal potential. He could also backup cribbs
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With all the Dline available, how about a trade down? I normally would like them to take the BPA at a high spot like #6, but with the wealth of defensive players that rate high, getting an extra first or high second could pay off big time.
Thoughts?
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Quote:
Thoughts?
Probably not going to be anyone there at #6 that is so much better than a guy rated in the mid to late first since this draft is so full of high end talent on defense. Maybe if Peterson is still there we get a few calls, but I don't expect him to be. And if he is there I hope we draft him and don't look back.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I would love to trade down if it meant an extra second that could potentially be a starter on the dline or even a free safety ... that being said ... I am still intrigued by just a few of the "elite" playmakers and what it could mean if we did go bpa ... still it would be nice to have our option of peterson / green / trade down 5 to 10 spots for a high 2nd (which could be about the 45th overall) and maybe even an additional 6th or something?
We would be in a similar position to last year where if we traded down .. then maneuvered back up by trading a pair of 6ths and a 3rd or so, we could end up with another 2nd round pick ... I would love a draft with a guy around 12 to 15 (still could be someone like amukamara, jj watt, cam jordan, julio jones, etc.) PLUS still having three 2nd rounders to fill needs on the def. front from picks 38 to 50 or so ...
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if peterson is still there at 6, i'm more than positive someone would be willing to trade up and snag him..
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Quote:
Having 2 great corners can change a game on defense.
Look at the jets. Not one guy had double digit sacks. Look at the Packers, They are 3 deep at CB.
With a likely rookie salary it might not cost a ton to land PP. He has unreal potential. He could also backup cribbs
Not only that, but recent history shows that team needs 3 "starter quality" and as many as 4 or 5 overall solid CBs to win big in the NFL.
I would have zero problem with the team pulling the trigger on Peterson. He has the look of a guy who will be a star in the NFL. This team needs players like that, regardless of position. I think we would probably go DL in the next 2 rounds if we did ... so those hoping for a RT/WR with the 2nd round pick would probably be disappointed.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would love to get a WR and a RT in FA.
Then we could get do what you just mentioned. Peterson in the 1st and just go all out on the front 7 in the draft.
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I am not good at this stuff, but the essential question is holding top pick of the second five in top ten, do we trade down or not. I would rather get the stud at any defensive position if available. Laying off to accumulate later rounders is very risky if you are truly building through the draft. But if we got a great deal, then I am a bit more comfortable. FA on our end, and who we might get, if we address some glaring needs makes trading down a bit more agreeable. Waiting to see. 
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Quote:
I would love to get a WR and a RT in FA.
Easier said than done. Rice and Jackson aren't hitting the open market and I'm unconvinced a guy like Jones is our #1. I'm interested in Clabo from the Falcons, he's a realisitc RT that we could aquire, keeping my ears open for what the falcons do with him.
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Im also starting to think that the CBA being unresolved could be a GOOD thing ... as long as it gets done soon after the draft of course.
If draft day comes and teams won't be able to adress their QB needs (most likely Kolb as the top trade) then you will still have some combination of Arizona, San Francisco, Tennessee, Washington, and Minnesota all potentially looking for a QB in the draft. If they can't get them in FA, do they really want to go into a season with Derek Anderson as a starting QB? Or Kerry Collins? Or Joe Webb?
A team might have to go after a guy like Cam or Gabbert ... even Locker earlier in the draft than it otherwise would ... If we see a quarterback go before us, I could definitely see any of 4 teams looking to trade up to the #6, and it could net us a lot to only trade down a few spots. We don't have to take it, but it's always nice to have options.
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Quote:
I'm thinking Patrick Peterson falls to us.. and i LOVE it!!! I'm seeing more and more mock drafts with this happening..
That would be incredible. Haden and Peterson at the corners with Ward and Brown at safety would help our DL a lot.
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Much as Hanford and Minnie did.  We're all the time hashing about "The Front Seven." You can't get QB pressure without sending a linebacker, unless receivers (WR's and TE's) are covered like blankets by "The Back Seven." I would go with this Peterson kid before I'd take a Fairley. Again, as bad as some of the holes are we need to plug, it's a crapshoot. Doubtful we get a RT in FA,...
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IMHO Peterson and Green are your 2 elite players. Everyone after that has a few more questions to be answered. Those 2 you can throw into any system and they should be successful. Peterson will be long gone by #6.
There are numerous ways in which we can go in the draft as well as in free agency. 1st round,I think Green is there and we wont pass on his talent unless someone offers a pretty good trade up. 2nd round would be a great spot to get your right tackle.
I would look to free agency for a lot of my D issues especially in the front 4. The Dt from Seattle, Spears from Dallas, there are a lot of these guys out there and a lot more that just do not want to play in the 3-4 if they can avoid it. Hell there are a lot of the undersized linebackers out there also that fit what Jauron wants to do.
Finish the O, then you can really concentrate on builing a solid D.
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Correct me if I am wrong.
In the 3-4 ... you are more able to win games as long as you have strong outside linebackers to rush and solid d-linemen. The 3-4 is based upon surprise, and you need to be able to disguise that. It has even been said that you can have "inferior" (for lack of a better word) corners because of the zone blitz.
In a 4-3 you need to have a pass rush (obviously) coming from the front four, but you are often times just "lining up and playing" versus trying to hide your blitz and intentions on every down. That would place the stress of the defense on the corners and d-ends more if I am not mistaken.
I'm not entirely sure about this ... just trying to form in my head what would be the better impact for us by a position specific viewpoint in the 4-3 ... a Corner who could help take away any player (and effectively the two best wideouts with Haden) ... or a DE who adds to the rush, pressures the QB, and makes below average corners look better... or even a DT who can help control the line of scrimmage and stop the run as well as force the offense to account for the rush up the middle to maybe get a 1 on 1 for a DE on a tackle ... someone like Fairley or Dareus next to Rubin could present problems for teams...
Thoughts?
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Hey Mourg, what do you see as a knock on Dareus?
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Quote:
. I honestely think whoever Denver does not draft is who we pick.
I honestly think whoever Arizona does not draft is who we pick. Fixed it for ya. 
It's fun to speculate but I wouldn't bet on even the first pick just yet. I saw a mock this AM that had us taking Peterson. I'd be OK with that.
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No pass rush skills is his big issue. I tell ya what, he may be the key for us to trade down. The Cowboys have been all over this kid and he is perfect for the 3-4 DE.
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The other possibility I see for a trade down is that SF and TEN pick 7 and 8. If one QB separates himself from the rest of the pack (or if two do and cincy picks one) then TEN may want to get ahead of SF to snag him. That would net us an extra 3rd maybe at the expense of a 6, then maybe still get AJ Green. That's what I would hope for if Buffalo does in fact snag Dareus at 3.
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washington also may want to get in on the QB-bidding
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I'm not sold on Cincinnnati taking Green, Ocho & TO didnt play the last what two or three games and there recievers did pretty good.
Cincinnati might have to go QB.....LOL or they might just have to go DB there secondary gave them big problems, so I'm not sold on Green going to them.
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Quote:
Having 2 great corners can change a game on defense.
Look at the jets. Not one guy had double digit sacks. Look at the Packers, They are 3 deep at CB.
With a likely rookie salary it might not cost a ton to land PP. He has unreal potential. He could also backup cribbs
I agree.
we had a pretty good D when Dixon and Minny were here.
We had Clay, but other than that we didn't have any real deal sealers.
If you can man up on both sides of the field and be fairly confident you can win most match-up's most of the time, you can get pretty creative with the players you have left.
If Petersen falls to us, we pretty much have to draft him.
That really helps Ward in a BIG way.
He is a big time box player.
If you can count on the corners to eliminate their guys, Ward becomes even better.
It's like you have a really fast LB....almost the old Tatum monster position.
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Peterson is a freak. He is gonna go around 225 and run in the 4.4 range. I know there are some that say, well he is a safety. Personally, I have no problem with him being the free safety. Here is what he would be asked to do and I am probably forgetting something.
Cover the speedy slot 1on1
Cover the pass catching tight end 1 on 1
support the run
blitz on occasion
provide over the top coverage
being smart enough to read the offense as well as the quarterback and make that quick read which side of the field do I play or do i peel off and play something in the middle.
I would like to keep Wright and if by some miracle Petersn is there, Wright and Haden on the corners with Ward and Peterson at safety and then you have Sheldon Brown and Mike Adams as your backups and nickel and dime dbs. That would be a fantastic secondary.
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Quote:
Peterson is a freak. He is gonna go around 225 and run in the 4.4 range. I know there are some that say, well he is a safety. Personally, I have no problem with him being the free safety. Here is what he would be asked to do and I am probably forgetting something.
Cover the speedy slot 1on1
Cover the pass catching tight end 1 on 1
support the run
blitz on occasion
provide over the top coverage
being smart enough to read the offense as well as the quarterback and make that quick read which side of the field do I play or do i peel off and play something in the middle.
I would like to keep Wright and if by some miracle Petersn is there, Wright and Haden on the corners with Ward and Peterson at safety and then you have Sheldon Brown and Mike Adams as your backups and nickel and dime dbs. That would be a fantastic secondary.
what do u think of von miller?
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I'd put Peterson at corner, move Sheldon Brown to safety, and resign Eric Wright to be the 3rd corner..
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That's what I would do.
Have lockdown guys outside and allow Ward to edge up closer to the LOS.
If they get beat outside, they get beat. It's going to happen from time to time.
Them getting beat usually isn't getting wide open beat. It is being a few steps out of position. You still have the qb factor involved. They don't throw perfect passes each time, so the ball in the air often times allows the defender to make up that step or two.
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Quote:
I'd put Peterson at corner, move Sheldon Brown to safety, and resign Eric Wright to be the 3rd corner..
That is a winner.
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Quote:
Correct me if I am wrong.
In the 3-4 ... you are more able to win games as long as you have strong outside linebackers to rush and solid d-linemen. The 3-4 is based upon surprise, and you need to be able to disguise that. It has even been said that you can have "inferior" (for lack of a better word) corners because of the zone blitz.
In a 4-3 you need to have a pass rush (obviously) coming from the front four, but you are often times just "lining up and playing" versus trying to hide your blitz and intentions on every down. That would place the stress of the defense on the corners and d-ends more if I am not mistaken.
I'm not entirely sure about this ... just trying to form in my head what would be the better impact for us by a position specific viewpoint in the 4-3 ... a Corner who could help take away any player (and effectively the two best wideouts with Haden) ... or a DE who adds to the rush, pressures the QB, and makes below average corners look better... or even a DT who can help control the line of scrimmage and stop the run as well as force the offense to account for the rush up the middle to maybe get a 1 on 1 for a DE on a tackle ... someone like Fairley or Dareus next to Rubin could present problems for teams...
Thoughts?
I am not an X's and O's guru,...but my theory is that because the NFL is a passing league, the longer you can keep receivers covered not only creates a smaller window of opportunity for the QB, it increases the necessary pass pressure from the DL, who doesn't have a whole lot of time to "get there" in the first place. In EITHER defense.
I'm of the the opinion that the converse would not be as true,... In any case, 3-4 or 4-3 (they all play them both), you could "get away with weaker corners" if the aforementioned blitz is working. And as you pointed out, the pressure does have to come from somewhere. Still, someone also has to be "covering." Wouldn't mind Peterson in that capacity.
Not to downgrade Fairley at all. Either of those two will be big impact, just based on the fact their holes are canyons.
And, if you score a few points along the way while burning up the clock, I don't worry about it so much.
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Von Miller has the it factor. Similar to Demarcus Ware in skill but relies more on speed to the ball than any pass rush moves to get him free. I think he can be successful in either system but putting him in a blitzkrieg 4-3 where you can move him around and keep teams guessing, would create Chaos for defenses.
Physically, he needs to get stronger especially in his upper body but this kid is a day 1 impact player. Instincts to the ball is just something you cant teach. This is a kid we would strongly consider if available.
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I'd put Peterson at corner, move Sheldon Brown to safety, and resign Eric Wright to be the 3rd corner..
This would really be ideal. While Peterson certainly has the size and skills to play FS, it probably would be better to start him off at CB and then move him down the road if necessary. While I would love to get a guy like Green in the draft, it doesn't look very likely he will drop to us.
Peterson may very well be the best player available in this draft regardless of position, and if he's there at 6 it would be extremely tough to not pick him. I know we have other needs, but you have to go BPA especially when you are drafting this early in the draft. We are in need of impact players anywhere on the field. This is our opportunity to put together a secondary that might be the best in the league a year or two down the road and one that could stay that way for a long time. As others have mentioned, a great secondary can free up guys to blitz (see NYJ).
We will certainly have to address the DL and WR later on, but guys like Green, Bowers, and Fairley are all off the board when the Browns pick, Peterson is likely the best remaining option.
This was a pretty interesting mock I saw on walterfootball.com. They are usually pretty solid with the analysis, but this would be a great draft for us if things panned out this way:
6. Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
37. Drake Nevis, DT, LSU
70. Jabaal Sheard, DE, Pittsburgh
101. Austin Pettis, WR, Boise State
134. Ross Homan, OLB, Ohio State
All in all would be a pretty good draft (only first 5 rounds here). Brings in some youth on the defensive side of the ball and a WR that could be really good in the WCO.
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I don't know. I want my FS to be blazing fast and really good at reading the ball. Sheldon Brown is a physical CB who makes life miserable on a WR at the LOS but can get beat deep (so he obviously is missing his higher gears).
I think I would prefer Peterson at FS. Plus, CB at the NFL level is almost a new position anyway, so why have 2 players learn a new position if you can have only one do it (and he could potentially be dynamic back there).
plus, he becomes a dynamic PR to boot.
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Since we're talking Broncos . . . http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17418393Broncos ditch 3-4 defensive front, return to 4-3 By Mike Klis The Denver Post 02/18/2011 08:16:26 AM MST With or without Champ Bailey at left cornerback, the Broncos are switching to a 4-3 defensive front. New coach John Fox confirmed the change during an interview with The Denver Post this week, saying: "We're going to be a multiple-front defense, but I think we'll make the commitment to the 4-3. The transition from the 3-4 to 4-3 is much easier than going from the 4-3 to 3-4, I will say that. So we feel pretty confident about that switch." The Broncos switched to a 3-4 set before the 2009 season under coach Josh McDaniels after running primarily a 4-3 for 14 seasons under coach Mike Shanahan. They finished this past season last in the NFL in both total defense and scoring defense. Changing to the 3-4 is considered the more difficult adjustment because it's rarely employed anywhere but in the NFL. The 3-4 requires defensive end-type players to learn how to play outside linebacker, a position that includes some pass coverage. One major personnel adjustment Fox must make is at linebacker. In general, linebackers in the 3-4 system are larger than those used in a 4-3. Broncos linebackers this past season included 267-pound Mario Haggan and 274-pound Robert Ayers. If the Broncos had to start playing today, Elvis Dumervil, who missed all of last season with an injury, and Ayers, both outside linebackers in the 3-4, would move back to their natural defensive end positions in a 4-3. Ayers, who was taken ahead of Clay Matthews III in the first round of the 2009 draft, figures to benefit from the switch back to the 4-3. The Broncos may also consider using their No. 2 overall pick in the April draft on Clemson defensive end Da'Quan Bowers. D.J. Williams, a starter since he was a first-round pick in the 2004 draft, would become the Broncos' weakside linebacker in a new 4-3 set, with Haggan or Joe Mays candidates at middle linebacker. And either Haggan or Wesley Woodyard would play at strongside linebacker. Don't be surprised if the Broncos address the linebacker position with one of their two second-round draft picks, or in free agency. "We're working through that with our personnel people, both our pro and college," Fox said. On the defensive line, the Broncos will likely convert Justin Bannan, a defensive end in the 3-4 last season, to a defensive tackle. With Dumervil and Ayers expected to start at defensive end, the other tackle would come from a group that includes Jamal Williams and Marcus Thomas. Thomas is a free agent who the Broncos may consider re-signing. Williams is under contract for $5 million next year, but that figures to be too much for a player who is about to turn 35. The consensus top defensive tackles available in the draft are Auburn's Nick Fairley and Alabama's Marcell Dareus. As for the secondary, the Broncos have reopened negotiations with Bailey about a contract extension.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
very interesting. Definitely puts Fairley in play for them if they're not scared off by the "someplace warm" comments.
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