Majority Opposes Limits on Collective Bargaining Power, Poll Finds
Most Americans say they are against any laws reducing the collective bargaining power of unionized civil service workers as a way to balance a state's budget, according to a new survey out Tuesday.
The USA Today/Gallup poll comes as there's no end in sight to the week-long budget showdown between Wisconsin's public employee unions and Gov. Scott Walker.
Pollsters found that 61 percent of respondents would oppose a law in their state similar to the one being floated by Walker that would reduce the ability of Wisconsin's state employee unions to bargain. Just 33 percent said they would support such a measure.
For the eighth straight day, protests for and against Walker's plan have clogged the streets around the state capitol in Madison.
The poll also asked about other methods elected officials could use to solve budget shortfalls. USA Today pointed out several key findings:
-- 71 percent oppose increasing sales, income or other taxes while 27 percent are in favor that approach.
-- 53 percent oppose reducing pay or benefits for government workers while 44 percent are in favor.
-- 48 percent oppose reducing or eliminating government programs while 47 percent are in favor of cuts.
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I'm sure there are many Teabag/GOP Party Governors looking at these polls and swallowing...gulp. Many thought they could divide the middle class workers, union and non-union, thinking they had a slam dunk majority that agreed with union busting.
Gov. Walker did not run on busting unions...and clearly that is what he is doing...he is not fooling anyone.
Here's what a poll on the same USA Today said asked as well.
Q. Do you favor or oppose these ways to reduce state budget deficits?
Cut or Eliminate certain state programs? Oppose 48% Favor 47%
Cut Pay or Benefits fro State Gov't workers? Oppose 53% Favor 44%
Increase Taxes Oppose 71% Favor 27%
So guess what. People don't want to do anything about the budget deficit. If they oppose all 3, how are they going to fix anything?
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
Interesting ....... people say that deficits and spending are a problem ..... yet the "majority" in this poll are against each and every method of dealing with the deficit.
A majority oppose every single option given.
I also found it interesting that 6 in 10 Democrats oppose every one of the 3 main strategies for dealing with the deficits .... and instead, I guess, are waiting for the tooth fairy to leave their state money under a giant pillow or something.
Out of the 3 options given, Democrats do not get to 40% for any solution, and their highest percentage on any possible solution is .. of course ..... raising taxes at 37%.
I also found it interesting that unions are called "more harmful to states with union workers" by a majority of both Independent and Republican voters, as opposed to being rated "more helpful" by Democrats by a wide margin.
Yep, interesting poll ... when you really look at what the numbers say ..... beyond just a handpicked headline here or there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Much has been reported about SB 5, the bill that would essentially break up unions and not allow them to bargain collectively. Hispanicohio.com has decided to simply give the facts, and let you, the reader come to your own conclusions. The following information was provided by the Ohio Legislative Service Commission, a non partisan body.
Those if favor of the bill says it would help balance the power of public employers and employees, and in turn assist in balancing Ohio’s projected $8 billion dollar budget.
Opponents suggest SB 5 is an attack on the middle class, damaging the way of life for thousands of Ohioan’s who will have trouble paying their mortgage and bills if SB 5 is passed.
Senate Bill 5 would:
State employees and employees of state institutions of higher education
Abolishes the collective bargaining rights of employees of the state, of any agency, authority, commission, or board of the state, and of any state institution of higher education.
prohibits the state, agencies, authorities, commissions, and boards of the state, and a state institution of higher education from collectively bargaining with its employees.
Abolishes the Office of Collective Bargaining.
Rights of public employees
Removes continuation, modification, or deletion of an existing collective bargaining agreement from the subject of collective bargaining.
removes a provision granting specific authority to public school employees to collectively bargain for health care benefits . authorizes public employees to refuse any representation by an exclusive representative or an employee organization.
School districts, educational service centers, community schools, and STEM schools
Prohibits a public employer that is a school district, educational service center, community school, or STEM school from entering into a collective bargaining agreement that does specified things, such as establishing a maximum number of students who may be assigned to a classroom or teacher.
Requires collective bargaining agreements between such an education-related public employer and public employees to comply with all applicable state or local laws or ordinances regarding wages, hours, and terms and conditions of employment, unless the conflicting provision establishes benefits that are less than provided in the law or ordinance.
requires the parties to consider, during negotiations, the financial status of the public employer at the time period surrounding the negotiations for purposes of determining the ability of the employer to pay for any agreed terms.
Prohibits the parties from basing the ability of the employer to pay for terms of the agreement on potential future increases in the employer’s income that would only be possible by the employer obtaining funding from an outside source, including the passage of a levy or a bond issue.
Dispute resolution procedures, strikes, and unfair labor practices
requires the employer and the State Employment Relations Board to post in a conspicuous location on the web site maintained by the board and the employer the terms of the last collective bargaining agreements offered by the employer and the exclusive representative at specific times.
Revises the factors that a person or group administering an alternate dispute resolution procedure must take into account.
If either party rejects a fact finding panel’s recommendations, permits the public employer to implement, in whole or in part, any of those recommendations that have been approved by the appropriate legislative authority.
Removes the mandatory final offer settlement conciliation procedure for public employees who do not have the right to strike.
Requires a public employer to report certain information about compensation paid to public employees under a collective bargaining agreement.
Specifies that expressions of views, opinions, and arguments are not unfair labor practices, and cannot be used as evidence of such, without a threat.
Repeals the provision requiring the Public Employee Collective Bargaining Law to be liberally construed.
Allows public employers to set aside any provision in an existing collective bargaining agreement in the event of a fiscal emergency.
Public employee pay
Requires merit-based pay for most public employees, including teachers and nonteaching school employees and board and commission members, and makes other, related changes.
Generally eliminates statutory salary schedules and steps.
Public employee benefits
Abolishes the School Employees Health Care Board, the School Employees Health Care Fund, and the Public Schools Health Care Advisory Committee, and allows the board of education of any school district to govern employee health care benefits in the same way as the governing board of any public institution of higher education.
Limits public employer contributions toward health insurance premiums to 80%.
Requires boards of education to adopt policies to provide leave with pay for school employees and abolishes statutorily provided leave for those employees.
Abolishes continuing contracts for teachers, except for those continuing contracts in existence prior to the effective date of the bill.
Prohibits a public employer from paying employee contributions to certain retirement systems.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: I also found it interesting that 6 in 10 Democrats oppose every one of the 3 main strategies for dealing with the deficits .... and instead, I guess, are waiting for the tooth fairy to leave their state money under a giant pillow or something.
YT...so you believe that there are only 3 strategies toward solving the budget crisis?
Interesting...
You need to try thinking out of that Radical TP/RW box you live in and get more creative when it comes to solving budget issues such as the states face.
Here is my idea..."all state workers" will have their pay reduced and benefit packages reduced a sufficient percentage to put the states budget in balance as required by law....
...BTW, "all state workers" includes those elected and appointed, union and no union, regardless pay grade...the same percentage will be reduced from every state worker.
You think that is fair...a shared sacrifice for the state?
If Walker were to propose such a solution he would have the overwhelming support within his state.
I'm all for across the board cuts, and have said so many times. There are no sacred cows.
I am also for the plan to limit collective bargaining powers for state employees.
I am all for cuts to social programs.
I am all for cuts to administrative staffs.
I want everything cut by at least 15%. I think this is a legitimate, and possible goal.
Hopefully these Governors will accomplish this and more. State spending, just like federal spending has grown out of control, and must be leashed immediately.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
YT...so you believe that there are only 3 strategies toward solving the budget crisis?
Interesting...
You need to try thinking out of that Radical TP/RW box you live in and get more creative when it comes to solving budget issues such as the states face.
Here is my idea..."all state workers" will have their pay reduced and benefit packages reduced a sufficient percentage to put the states budget in balance as required by law....
...BTW, "all state workers" includes those elected and appointed, union and no union, regardless pay grade...the same percentage will be reduced from every state worker.
You think that is fair...a shared sacrifice for the state?
If Walker were to propose such a solution he would have the overwhelming support within his state.
jmho
Or you could raise the taxes which would push the take home salary of each worker down as much as the cut would have...very similar principle
Quote: I'm all for across the board cuts, and have said so many times. There are no sacred cows.
I am also for the plan to limit collective bargaining powers for state employees.
I am all for cuts to social programs.
I am all for cuts to administrative staffs.
I want everything cut by at least 15%. I think this is a legitimate, and possible goal.
Hopefully these Governors will accomplish this and more. State spending, just like federal spending has grown out of control, and must be leashed immediately.
YT...tell me, have you heard the millionaire TPGOP Gov. Walker talk about cutting his pay?
Has he even suggested shared sacrifice by all state employees?
I've never been a public employee. I've either worked for someone (in my industry) or I've been Self Employed (as I am now)
In each and every position I've held, I was always,, and I mean ALWAYS under the gun to produce., and I always did, That's how I stay employed.
Most of my employers had group health insurance and I don't remember a time when I didn't pay something into the plan.. maybe way back in the 70s.. but not sure.
Pensions in my industry were non existent until 401(k)s became available.. Not sure when that was exactly, but I joined the first chance I got..
Built up a nice little nestegg and my employer at the time, tossed in a little bit of a match... it was good.
Other than the meager match my employers over the years tossed in, I had to work for just about every dime I have today..
What bugs the hell out of me is the sense of entitlement I think I hear from state and city workers.. Really not so much from the people but from the unions.
The new reality is, states, school systems, towns, counties and villages simply can't afford to do business the old way.
Something has to change and perhaps the first thing is, the end of gravy train rides.
Please don't think I lack respect for Teachers, Fire and Police Professionals.. I really do have great respect for them. Tough jobs.. Pay is by and large, not commensurate with the risks they take and importance of the jobs.
But I've always been told by any police or teacher that I know, they accept the pay, but the benefits and pensions are where the real payoffs are.
Look around, the long term legacy costs are killing governments just like they killed LTV, GM, Chrysler etc etc... (of course, they weren't the only reason those companies had problems)
So, to head off the inevitable, maybe the answer is, pay them more now, but cut back on pensions and benefits.. The legacy portion.
I think these governors see that unions won't allow that to happen.. so if busting the unions is what they gotta do to get the ship righted,, well then..
Some on here are going to jump all over me about this.. and maybe my thinking needs some tweeking.. I'll admit it's not completely thought out. But I believe the general direction of my thinking is right.
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/23/1108:33 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I'm all for across the board cuts, and have said so many times. There are no sacred cows.
I am also for the plan to limit collective bargaining powers for state employees.
I am all for cuts to social programs.
I am all for cuts to administrative staffs.
I want everything cut by at least 15%. I think this is a legitimate, and possible goal.
Hopefully these Governors will accomplish this and more. State spending, just like federal spending has grown out of control, and must be leashed immediately.
YT...tell me, have you heard the millionaire TPGOP Gov. Walker talk about cutting his pay?
Has he even suggested shared sacrifice by all state employees?
Dunno and don't care.
Cutting the Governor's salary isn't going to balance the books.
That would be like me having $200,000 in debt and thinking that cutting out my Saturday trip to the ice cream shop will take care of it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Cutting the Governor's salary isn't going to balance the books.
That would be like me having $200,000 in debt and thinking that cutting out my Saturday trip to the ice cream shop will take care of it.
YT...the point which zoomed right over your head.... is the good millionaire Gov Walker doesn't believe in shared sacrifice.
he wants to "take" all of what is needed to cover the states shortfall from just one group of state workers, while ignore himself and other well paid elected and appointed state officials.
Balancing a state budget is easy...a straight percentage cut in wages and benefits until the shortfall is covered...
...stop thinking like a Republican or TP...and start thinking like a WORKING CLASS AMERICAN !
Cutting the Governor's salary isn't going to balance the books.
That would be like me having $200,000 in debt and thinking that cutting out my Saturday trip to the ice cream shop will take care of it.
YT...the point which zoomed right over your head.... is the good millionaire Gov Walker doesn't believe in shared sacrifice.
he wants to "take" all of what is needed to cover the states shortfall from just one group of state workers, while ignore himself and other well paid elected and appointed state officials.
Balancing a state budget is easy...a straight percentage cut in wages and benefits until the shortfall is covered...
...stop thinking like a Republican or TP...and start thinking like a WORKING CLASS AMERICAN !
all you are doing,mac, is trying to transfer the problem to point b where the problem is at point a. it is pointing out your left hand while you have your right taking money out of their wallet. what sacrifices walker makes or doesn't make is not the issue and anything he does is an empty gesture. it does not solve anything. 200,000 is 0.0067% of 3 billion.
I am thinking like a TP and a low to middle class person. what do you have against Tax Payers? that seems like the Democrats plan. tax and fine the hell out of taxpayers to solve the problem. The don't believe in any cuts. if they did California wouldn't be so bad. there has been barely any measureable cuts out here.I don't trust the Democrats having the tax payers or middle classes best interests in their hands. they are too much being paid off by a certain segment that only has their interests in mind. you don't see a conflict of interest when groups hand out money to those who set their wages and benefits?
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
How does the Governor's salary compare to other Governors salaries throughout the country?
How does his salary compare to other major administrative jobs throughout the state?
How much does his salary add to the deficit compared to the combied salaries/benefits of the other groups of state employees?
Man mac .. you trip over stacks of 20 dollar bills scrambling for pennies. Democrats seem to share this trait. No wonder most states that had Democrat Governors are in financial trouble. "Tax the rich! Don't dare look at union wages or benefits that are paid by taxpayer taxes ..... just tax the damn rich!"
Who do you tax when the "rich" move out of state mac? Hell, the "uber-rich" can afford to move out of the country entirely if they so choose. What happens then mac?
I know .... "Evil Teabags! Evil RW'ers! Stand up for the working man! Blah, blah, blah, blah .... and so on with the same crap we have heard all along.
The Governor and his appointed state officials do not make enough to close the deficit gap. Not even close. Besides, we want and need people of competence the higher we go up in government. We don't always get it ...... but in order to even compete, we need to pay a competitive wage. Which is more important in the overall picture ...... a highly skilled and conpetent trash collector .... or a highly skilled and competent administrator who might help get the state back on the path to solvency?
If I were Governor, I would say this ....
"OK, I give up. We can't get the bill that will help us keep the state out of bankruptcy, so we're filing. All union contracts will be abolished as a result. In order to ensure that we get quality services at a reasonable rate, we will institute a new wage scale, and all former state employees may apply for new employment under the terms of the new employment scale.
Benefits will be provided at the average employee contribution rate of private sector employees. This rate is approximately 40%, so employees will be eligible for benefits provided they pay the 40% contribution.
We'll be filing in the morning. We wish it hadn't come to this, but the Democrats leaving the state instead of working towards a solution has forced our hand. We must have a solution, and this one, drastic as it is, is the best remaining solution.
Further, we will be investigating all doctors who were "mass producing" doctors' excuses for protesters. This is an unethical application of their licensing, and we will prosecute those who committed such acts of fraud.
I have also asked the Attorney General to file a case in federal court asking that the seats of the State Senators who have abandoned their responsibilities be vacated. This way citizens in those districts will not go without representation. Special elections to fill these abandoned seats will take place as soon as is possible. Those who abandoned their seats will not be eligible to run. Further, as they are in violation of the law, they will be arrested when found, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Have a nice day."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: -- 71 percent oppose increasing sales, income or other taxes while 27 percent are in favor that approach.
-- 53 percent oppose reducing pay or benefits for government workers while 44 percent are in favor.
-- 48 percent oppose reducing or eliminating government programs while 47 percent are in favor of cuts.
So in an effort to address budget shortfalls, a big majority oppose tax cuts... a majority oppose cutting pay and benefits to government workers... and a majority oppose cutting government programs..
Yet they all agree we need to address budget shortfalls.... Gee, I have NO IDEA why we are in such bad shape.
Just take almost everything from the rich. Bring them down to the level of the "middle", and then we can build the lower class up and have everyone equal ...........
From each according to his means, to each according to his needs. That'll work, right?
What could possibly go wrong?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Funny thing is that if you were able to take all of the assets in the US and somehow distribute them perfectly evenly so that everybody was equal.... within 5 years, most of the rich would be rich again and most of the poor would be poor again....
Quote: Funny thing is that if you were able to take all of the assets in the US and somehow distribute them perfectly evenly so that everybody was equal.... within 5 years, most of the rich would be rich again and most of the poor would be poor again....
Well, that's why you have to make sure that there are rules in place so people can't get rich.
I mean, it wouldn't be fair for there to be rich people, would it?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: How does the Governor's salary compare to other Governors salaries throughout the country?
How does his salary compare to other major administrative jobs throughout the state?
How much does his salary add to the deficit compared to the combied salaries/benefits of the other groups of state employees?
YT...it does not matter how much anyone makes compared to anyone outside the borders of Wisconsin or within the borders of Wisconsin...DOESN'T MATTER.
Their state is said to be in a dire economic state and to fix it is as simple as shared sacrifice by every state worker, having their pay and benefits cut an equal percentage necessary to put the state budget back and balance.
From the millionaire Gov knocking down 6 figures with a wage much higher than the average wage for a governor...down to the lowest paid state worker. SHARED SACRIFICE until the budget crisis is over for the state of Wisconsin.
It seems the millionaire Governor from Wisconsin laid out his political agenda to one of his rich campaign donors, for the public to hear, via the phone.
Where's the outrage from the left that Walkers picture is on signage with crosshairs over his face, Hitler written on them and many other rather nasty sayings on such signs? Funny how that works huh?
I wonder,, is every person that works hard and becomes wealthy a bad person Mac.
Many movie stars lean heavely towards your side of every argument. and many are wealthy beyond my wildest dreams.. does that make them bad people.
You speak of the rich in a fashion that makes me think you just don't like people of wealth.
That aside,, remember some time back that Sarah Palin was recorded while on a telephone call with the French President, only it turns out, it wasn't really the french president.. instead it was someone playing a joke on her
Are you 100% sure that these two guys are who they say they are and not some guys just faking it.
I say that because the audio is crystal clear. how'd that phone get tapped?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
The online news site Buffalo Beast has gone offline after publishing a prank phone call between Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and a Buffalo Beast editor who posed as David Koch.
Buffalo Beast Publisher Paul Fallon told The Huffington Post that the audio is "absolutely legit" (listen to it here).
The Buffalo Beast website seems to be suffering from traffic overload, causing many to see this message: "Error establishing a database connection." Some pages also say, "The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."
It's not the first time the Web has made the news in the Wisconsin protests. A pro-union website was blocked at the Capitol Building in Madison.
The Buffalo Beast was founded in 2002 as an alternative biweekly newspaper in Buffalo, N.Y. It became an online-only news operation in 2009.
Quote: oh, look.... something just went over your head.
LOL And another .... and another .... and another ........
It really is amazing that he doesn't hurt himself.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: ...a millionaire and billionaire talk about balancing Wisconsin's budget on the backs of the states middle class workers...enjoy..
Ahh, if only it weren't a hoax....
It's a hoax in the sense that it wasn't David Koch on the phone. It is not a hoax in the sense that what Walker believed what he said and thought he was talking to David Koch.
Quote: ...a millionaire and billionaire talk about balancing Wisconsin's budget on the backs of the states middle class workers...enjoy..
Ahh, if only it weren't a hoax....
It's a hoax in the sense that it wasn't David Koch on the phone. It is not a hoax in the sense that what Walker believed what he said and thought he was talking to David Koch.
' and the fake Koch didn't spur the conversation right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: ...a millionaire and billionaire talk about balancing Wisconsin's budget on the backs of the states middle class workers...enjoy..
Ahh, if only it weren't a hoax....
It's a hoax in the sense that it wasn't David Koch on the phone. It is not a hoax in the sense that what Walker believed what he said and thought he was talking to David Koch.
' and the fake Koch didn't spur the conversation right?
That's not the point...The point is quotes such as these reveal Walker's true strategy.
Quote: “An interesting idea that was brought up to me by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democratic leader. I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it… the reason for that, we’re verifying it this afternoon, legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum because it’s turned out that way. So we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is, hell. I’ll talk. If they want to yell at me for an hour, I’m used to that. I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.”
link The transcript shows that his only interest is busting up unions, not balacing the budget. I don't care if he's talking to David Koch, a reporter, or anyone else, it shows his true colors.
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