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Below is what I found to be a thoughtful article on the state of America right now. The author touches on a lot of points. But the one that really hits home with me is the spending on education and research in this country. We have very real budget crises in this country at all levels, but both sides right now are putting forth proposals that take money from various types of education (which provides America's skilled workforce) as well as cutting budgets to things like NIH, NASA, and defense research, all of which fund a very large amount of basic research. This basic research then provides the foundation for most consumer products you can think of. (Microwaves, computers, cell phones, drugs, medical devices, etc.) (Disclaimer: I work in basic research) IMO, these types of cuts may help balance the budget in the short term, but they run the high risk of crippling the country in the long term. Places like China, South Korea and Brazil are pouring money into education, infrastructure, and research. It won't be long before the newest technologies and the world's most skilled workforce don't reside in America; the changeover has already started. Skilled workers and high technology are the two things that have largely set us apart over the last century. To me, we can do a lot with health care reform (including Medicare/Medicaid), tax reform, and resolution of the wars to eliminate deficits without having to touch education and research. Everyone is probably tired of talking about all this, and I apologize for another political forum, but to me, this larger discussion is more pertinent to the future of the US than any other largely b/c it takes into account future growth prospects as well as short term growth prospects. web page
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The problem is fairly simple... because of the HUGE chunk of money that is taken off the top to spend on the entitlement programs, there isn't all that much left that we can cut, so things like education and research have to take the hit...
Try to cut welfare, try to cut social security, try to cut food stamps.. try to get the bottom half to actually pay federal taxes....
yebat' Putin
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That problem is that no matter what you cut, someone is going to complain.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
That problem is that no matter what you cut, someone is going to complain.
That is not a problem... let them complain. We need politicians who are going to try to do the right thing, not be everybodys friend.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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That problem is that no matter what you cut, someone is going to complain.
That is not a problem... let them complain. We need politicians who are going to try to do the right thing, not be everybodys friend.
You said yourself, they are "politicians", not public service employees. They don't want to upset anyone that might vote against them.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I do not KNOW this, but I believe he means protection for programs that shouldn't be cut or touched at all.
For example, Social Security, in my opinion, should be off limits. It is the largest source of income for Mom and Dad. Of course, they are on Medicare too.
I would like to see my military pension remain intact. I have alreay "taken a cut" in that there was no COLA increase this year. I would have no problem with an additional 3-5% reduction -- IF EVERY OTHER PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY was cut.
There is plenty of belt tightening that could go on everywhere.
I am already making plans for $5-6 a gallon gas this year. Something in the personal budget WILL go, and when it does, other industrial commerce is going to feel the roll.
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Quote:
It won't be long before the newest technologies and the world's most skilled workforce don't reside in America; the changeover has already started.
I've long held the opinion that America is going to experience a huge brain-drain here in the next few decades, losing the top 2-3% of our skilled workforce (ie those involved in R&D) to other nations.
There are no sacred cows.
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It may not be possible for Social Security and Medicaid to be "off limits". There may be a need for a small cut in benefits. If it is necessary to cut benefits by $10 per month per recipient, then that would save $7 billion. That's not a huge savings, but it's also not a huge sacrifice. The higher end of recipients may need to give up $15 per month. We may have to give up programs that pay people's gas bills, or restrict them greatly. We may have to curtail a great number of programs that spend a great deal of money. It is a whole loe easier to ask a lot of people to give a little, than to ask a few people to give a lot.
Welfare benefits would have a similar cut. We cannot expect our elderly to take a cut after working their whole lives while those who are just taking from the system get increases. That's extremely unfair, and must not happen.
I know that this will be seen as unfair, and mean ..... but it really isn't. It's a matter of asking for a very small "shared sacrifice" (sinde that seems to be the language of the day) in order to bring the deficit under control. We will have to cut funding to the states .... and this may require eliminating some mandates. We may have to patch some roads this year instead of repaving them. If the money is not there, then we cannot just keep spending as though it is.
I would be all for a 1% tax increase completely across the board, starting at dollar one. If you are a low wage earner, and you make $7000 this year, then you will have to pay $70 in taxes. That sucks, sure ..... but these are the very same "taxpayers" who have bene draining the system rather than contributing to the support of the country. No more EITC until the country is our of the red. The "free" money has to stop.
There are many small things that can be done that will not impact anyone in a horrific manner ..... but that "small sacrifice", across the board, from a very small tax increase for every single wage earner, to very small cuts in benefits, to budget cuts for each and every department in the country .... to charging our "friends" when we come charging to their rescue .. like we did for South Korea ..... right before they signed, reluctantly, a trade deal so ridiculously lopsided in their favor that they should have jumped on it in a second. If South Korea wants to use us for protection, fine ... but pay the cost of moving our Navy for their protection. We also need to look at trade policies, imports from countries with unfair monetary policies, and so on. Each and every policy, department, and expenditure must make and suffer cuts. Each policy that serves as a detriment to US business and trade needs to be re-evaluated and renegotiated ... or else abandoned.
The problem is that each and every one of the things I proposed would be immediately jumped on as abusive, horrific, starving the old people in our country, forcing poor children out onto the streets, and so on. "How can we make those kind of cuts in "vital" departments and expect quality services? Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah ... and so on. This reaction would be immediate, and it would be loud.
In the end, people are worried about the deficit .... as long as "they" don't have to suffer any consequences of cutting it down. It's embarassing and shameful how our country has gone from those willing to sacrifice their very lives, and willing to work themselves to the point of exhaustion in order to provide for their families ...... to where we are today.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I do not KNOW this, but I believe he means protection for programs that shouldn't be cut or touched at all.
There are no programs that should be 100% off limits.. I have an idea, how about we cut the administrative side of social security and not the benefits?
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For example, Social Security, in my opinion, should be off limits. It is the largest source of income for Mom and Dad. Of course, they are on Medicare too.
I am not in favor of undercutting the benefits that mom and pop have counted on their entire lives.. what I am in favor of doing is restructuring social security and medicare and these other bloated problems so 30 years from now we are NOT having the same conversation about the same bloated problems.
yebat' Putin
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It's embarassing and shameful how our country has gone from those willing to sacrifice their very lives, and willing to work themselves to the point of exhaustion in order to provide for their families ...... to where we are today.
At one time, long long ago, any "hand outs" came from local organizations set up to help. They had better control over knowing who was abusing the system, and it was usually just to help people, not support them.
Now that the government hands out to anyone that can fill out an application for it, it is abused, it is relied on as a source of income, and has lost it's original intent.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I would just like some honesty.
We need to admit that no one under 45 is going to see social security. Guarantee everyone who is 45 years and older their current payments, add the cost to the national debt and end the program.
I know that I am not going to get a dime, so why must I pay into the worthless program. Remove social security and increase my taxes half the social security amount. to pay for the debt. At least I will have half the money to invest.
It is much better than the current situation where I know that every dollar I pay into social security is lost.
Retirement age should be raised to 70 as well. We live longer with a better quality of life than when it was originally set up. If you saved and can retire before then, good for you. But if not then you should have to work.
Last edited by hungryhound; 03/07/11 11:39 AM.
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We need to admit that no one over 45 is going to see social security.
I'm assuming you mean UNDER 45.. I'm 44.. you are killing me. 
I anticipate that I will see some kind of social security, honestly I hope its not much. My son is 14.. if he ever pays a single dime in social security then wwe will have failed him. The program needs to end.
I also agree with you about the retirement age... I don't know if I will ever fully retire. There will come a day when I don't feel like doing what I do now but then I'll go work at a golf course or something.. 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
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We need to admit that no one over 45 is going to see social security.
I'm assuming you mean UNDER 45.. I'm 44.. you are killing me.
I anticipate that I will see some kind of social security, honestly I hope its not much. My son is 14.. if he ever pays a single dime in social security then wwe will have failed him. The program needs to end.
I also agree with you about the retirement age... I don't know if I will ever fully retire. There will come a day when I don't feel like doing what I do now but then I'll go work at a golf course or something..
You are correct. I meant under. (I changed the original post)
Hey I picked 45 as an arbitrary number and by the time a bill like that gets passed you will be 45 anyways. So you should be good.
I just said 45 because with a combined raising of the retirement age to 70 that gives everyone a minimum of 25 years to fully prepare for it.
I don't really care how you do it this ponzi scheme needs to end. IT will be painful and it will be a tragedy if our children get saddled with it. I would much rather pay the pain myself then pass it on to my children.
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As originally structured for its purpose, it has outlived its capability to stay solvent, no doubt.
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Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Foodstamps... I understand the need for those, just not the management. The current system encourages people NOT TO WORK when recieving welfare benefits. I think that is absurd. They also require some to work for their benefits but without hourly compensation... This only detracts from the recipients being truly employed.
The system should reward those willing to help themselves. If you won't get off the couch long enough to contribute then die on the couch.
Now I understand that some are handicapped and some are medically disabled... Exceptions there.
Then you also have the issue of children suffering, paying for the sins of the father so to speak. But I look at all the so called parenting going on, where parents collect a benefit check and the kids raise themselves or are subject to abuse and it sickens me.
Working and or loving parents should keep their kids. Absentee or abusive parents should lose their kids. KIDS ARE NOT A PAYCHECK.
What a ridiculous concept. The more kids you have the more money we will JUST GIVE YOU. Then at tax time we'll reward you with a huge tax refund because you have kids. ???????? Call it EARNED INCOME CREDIT?????
What was earned? Why does your ability to reproduce give you entitlement to this credit? When my kids were young the EIC was for those making less tha 36K. The average credit was about $600 per child upt to TWO children.
The past few years I've been hearing about EIC's in the $6,000 range for two kids or more... WTF? Have we lost our minds? You give some of the crackhead parents $6k in one shot and expect them to be responible with it? All this does is put a lot of widescreen TV's and killer entertainment systems in low insome homes...
I was picking up a new wireless router the other day at walmart, when I saw a couple pay cash for a new widescreen tv, a play station 3 and a laptop. I probably would not have noticed anything BUT the guy spoke to me and said something about having an extra battery for the laptop... Then I looked down and saw the shreded bottoms on the jeans of both, he was wearing a worn out ten dollar pair of tennis shoes and she was in old flip flops... It was 20 degrees outside. The rest of their appearance screamed BROKE as hell to me. I just watched as the young wife counted hundreds out of a bank envelope and handed them shakingly to the clerk, as if her mind was reeling about all the other uses this money could be put to....
Idiots.
I'd like to know how much is doled out in EIC's each year to those who either do not work or get every dime in taxes back because they earn so little. I don't understand a REFUND of money that was never paid. That's not a refund it's a welfare handout.
Up until last year I was raising a grandson while my daughter got her act together. He's now living with his mother, but during the five years my wife and I raised him we never saw a peeny in child support from his dad until tax time. Each year the government would give him a big ole EIC and then seize part of it (only part of it) to pay his back support... meanwhile he gets to spend the rest anyway he seen fit because my daughter let him claim our grandson on his taxes... That SOB made a profit annually while I raised his kid.
After two years of this I filed for custody and took away that little benefit. But by then he had made two more kids with another girl he wasn't married to and now claims them.
Point being, this is where the system is broke on the lower end. I imagine that 20 to 40 percent of the population gets these huge EIC checks. Let's say out of 300 million people 40 million are tax paying adults (probably more). Now out of that 40 million only 10 percent(again probably more) get back all they paid in plus a big EIC. That would be 4 million checks for $6K...
That's $24,000,000,000?????????? Can't be! You do the math and tell me if I'm wrong.
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Since we are on the subject of cuts.
The Earned Income Tax Credit is being abused and sucking the tax revenues of those whom actually paid in.
Paying for Babies...Take a Women who is a bartender for example that does not have to be paid minimum wage and qualifies, because she/he does not claim all their tips.
Let say she has two young children and is single and is getting assisted by welfare.
Medical payed for threw birth and there after.
Education is also available at no cost to her [witch I believe to be a useful tool in getting someone off of the money tree]. She paid nothing in and can earn up to 5,000 if she so qualifies
[The more kids the more money she can qualify for].
Some work for 3-4 dollars an hour yet some bring home 300 a night.
Enough not to need a hand out imo.
On top of child support [I realize not all men are honorable in this department].
Who's paying for that? The same small businesses and average hard working citizens as per usual.
I'm all for taking care of those who can not take care of themselves, but we need to stop rewarding someone for having babies. I also want to make clear that I don't think all single mothers fraud the system, but I have seen far too much abuse.
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One should never receiver a refund exceeding the amount of taxes they actually paid into the system.
If you paid in $1,000. Then with EICs and everything, your refund should not exceed that $1000.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
One should never receiver a refund exceeding the amount of taxes they actually paid into the system.
If you paid in $1,000. Then with EICs and everything, your refund should not exceed that $1000.
I could not agree more
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Quote:
One should never receiver a refund exceeding the amount of taxes they actually paid into the system.
If you paid in $1,000. Then with EICs and everything, your refund should not exceed that $1000.
In your example, everything over the $1000 is not a tax refund, it's welfare.
yebat' Putin
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The main problem is the setup.
Our country started as a pyramid ... we had a solid base of individuals and only a few on top that couldn't fend for themselves. Those on the bottom could afford to support the few.
Over time it became a square, where we had just as many trying to go to the top of the pyramid and take out benefits and other items from the system as we had people on the bottom supporting the rest.
Today we have a healthy mix of rich and poor alike finding ways to cheat the system. Unfortunately, we also have less and less people everyday at the base of the pyramid, and more and more people (including government programs still being created) looking for a way to take more out of the system.
We will either fix the problem, or we will soon get to a day where the system can no longer support itself, as it will be an upside down pyramid and it will fall over. At that time we will have one heck of a mess and it will be a lot worse than the financial crisis we have been going through the last few years ...
Just my thoughts on a slow monday aternoon!
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Do you really think we can fix the problem? Do you really think a group of people could run on the platform of "Look, about 60% of you are taking more out of the system than you are putting in, the gravy train programs will be either greatly scaled back or phased out all together over the next 10 years and you are going to have to take care of yourself. Vote for us and we are going to make you actually work for a living." I know that is what a lot of the tea partiers campaigned on but we will see if they have the guts to stick to their convictions, if they have the power to get any of it through, and if they can get re-elected if/when people start to feel the pinch.....
yebat' Putin
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And I know it's an unfair statement especially because I have brought it up on here before ...
But I still think it is unfair that in any walk of life you defer to an expert... except in politics. In medical, business, sports, art, history, science ... you always trust the guys (or girls) that know the most and have the best credentials.
In politics, the guy who has a PhD in economics, social justice, law, and environmental issues, the guy who also has over 40 years of government service, whether military, coast guard, fireman, or whatever, the guy who has worked as a social worker downtown and volunteered his spare time on the weekends giving back to others (think the Tim Tebow personality with all of the qualifications ... and then put him in real life) ... that guy (or girl) has the same voting power as the high school dropout who lives in his parents basement, doesn't know the difference between right and left wing, and only votes for the guy who promises that things will be easier for him (without looking up the facts or even bothering to ask for a source like mac does...)
I never want to make this based upon qualifications because a person with certain certifications or experiences shouldn't be valued over another ... however it's dumbfounding that the smartest and most qualified decision maker in our entire country has the SAME EXACT SAY as the person who is theoretically the very least qualified to make a decision.
I do not like that about our system.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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But look on the bright side, the highly qualified person will probably marry another involved and intelligent person and they will have 2 kids... the unemployed least qualified person will have 6 kids raised by 1 1/2 parents.... 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
I never want to make this based upon qualifications because a person with certain certifications or experiences shouldn't be valued over another ... however it's dumbfounding that the smartest and most qualified decision maker in our entire country has the SAME EXACT SAY as the person who is theoretically the very least qualified to make a decision.
I do not like that about our system.
Sheesh. If we had it your way, the dems would never win an election. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
One should never receiver a refund exceeding the amount of taxes they actually paid into the system.
If you paid in $1,000. Then with EICs and everything, your refund should not exceed that $1000.
In your example, everything over the $1000 is not a tax refund, it's welfare.
That's my point. If in 2010 you paid $1000 worth of federal tax, and when your taxes are done including EICs and all, it says your refund is $5000. They cut you a check for $1000 and that's it. you can never get a refund for more than you put in.
They should be happy they got away with paying a net $0 in taxes for the year. 
Too many people use the tax system as a savings account, but there are many who use it as you said, a welfare system(Refunds of more than they had paid in).
I wonder how much that alone would save the government of not paying refunds over the amount collected for an individual.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I wonder how much that alone would save the government of not paying refunds over the amount collected for an individual.
it would save the government plenty but it would cost them votes because many would see it as a tax increase.. increased to $0.
Then we would have to hear about balancing the budget on the backs of the poor and shared sacrifice 
yebat' Putin
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I would like to see a system that everyone who pays taxes is allowed to allocated where a % of their tax dollars go. Maybe it's a 50-50 rule ... maybe it's 80-20 ... I have no idea. But I think it would help to eliminate b/s programs.
If I am a millionaire and I am paying hundreds of thousands of dollars every year, should I be able to say where I want it to go? Even if the government is allowed to put a % where it would help most in their eyes, at least I could have a say of how I was contributing. I think you would see a lot more people actually research the issues as a way to "get back" at the government, and you would see the social programs try to become a little more competitive in terms of results and how they are run because they would be competing over that taxpayer decided money... without competition you have no incentive to get better ...
I also think that some people would say "yeah but they would only put money into things that will benefit them, like the millionaire who made money on weapons defenses will only want his money going into the military" And I think that's absolutely fine. Sure he would benefit from the taxes in that idea. But, then again the government would benefit from him continuing to have success and they would keep getting more taxes from his business as a private supplier. Also, it could be said that while he is looking out for his own interests, which part isn't in taxes? The lawmakers make laws and give kickbacks / pork projects that keep them in office ... the voters vote on politicians that will give them the best deal, and the individuals who benefit from social programs will never vote to strike those programs down. So why shouldn't the middle - class and upper class tax payers at least be able to decide where a portion of their taxes go?
If I would rather see my money fund military armor and technology, or even funding alternative energy research than see it go in the form of welfare kickbacks or to give individuals free social securit (Free in the sense that as someone in thier 20's people won't remember what social security was when I hit 65/68/70 .. not that they didn't earn it)..
I just think when you have public programs competing over those extra funds, you will see some of them clean up their acts and become more efficient. If they don't then they don't get enough funding and can (GASP) fail ... just like almost any other business in the country.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Do you really think we can fix the problem?
No.
Our gov. keeps spending what we don't have.
As some have noted - cutting ANYTHING creates huge headaches and so many things are "off the table", don't touch them.
As to the title of the thread? Yes, our best days are behind us, no doubt. (at least for the foreseeable future).
We are a bankrupt country, and no one will give. We print money to cover our tails, short term. Kinda like kicking the can down the road.
Our treasury department just recently had to buy some of our debt. Imagine that. We are in debt, so far, that we had to "buy our own debt". Tell me how that works? We just doubled that portion of the debt, that's how that works.
Call me a pessimist, call me whatever - but the crap is going to hit the fan - sooner rather than later. States are broke. Counties and cities are broke.
Inflation is just around the corner. And when the people on the public dole don't get their checks, look out.
The pain we will soon go through is the only way to right the ship. The problems that have been delayed - kicked down the road - well, we're at the end of the road. It's a dead end with a barricade. And we're just a few feet away from it - the can can't be kicked much further.
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Quote:
Since we are on the subject of cuts.
The Earned Income Tax Credit is being abused and sucking the tax revenues of those whom actually paid in.
Paying for Babies...Take a Women who is a bartender for example that does not have to be paid minimum wage and qualifies, because she/he does not claim all their tips.
Let say she has two young children and is single and is getting assisted by welfare.
Medical payed for threw birth and there after.
Education is also available at no cost to her [witch I believe to be a useful tool in getting someone off of the money tree]. She paid nothing in and can earn up to 5,000 if she so qualifies
[The more kids the more money she can qualify for].
Some work for 3-4 dollars an hour yet some bring home 300 a night.
Enough not to need a hand out imo.
On top of child support [I realize not all men are honorable in this department].
Who's paying for that? The same small businesses and average hard working citizens as per usual.
I'm all for taking care of those who can not take care of themselves, but we need to stop rewarding someone for having babies. I also want to make clear that I don't think all single mothers fraud the system, but I have seen far too much abuse.
Don't forget about the $400 for "Make Work Pay Credit". So not only can one NOT pay any taxes in your provided example, they get $400 back.
"My signature line goes here."
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I know guys who have seven kids from five different mothers. I know ladies with seven kids from five different fathers. I am serious about that.
Why should I or anyone pay for their libido or inability to keep their peanut butter out of someone elses chocolate?
Granted, this may be a minority of the totality but I understand where you are coming from. Even still, we only cover a fraction of what is needed to make our government solvent. What really chaffes me is that I think it is more about how we are conducting ourselves that makes me think pessimistically of our future.
It is isnt just absent fathers or careless mothers . . . how do you legislate people from being foolish?, but it is how we conduct business, or our declining work ethic, a shift in demographics, or a declining need for laborers of the past.
The declining need for laborers of the past is my reference to manufacturing. Middle to lower middle class workers, blue collar Reagan Democrats. These men and women are seeing their jobs erode and are being replaced with lower wage retail and service jobs. Manufacturing is becoming more high tech and is placing a demand on skilled labors or at least laborers willing to learn new types of work and not what they are used to.
I supervise people who just simply want to show up and others who are content with moving metal from one spot to the next. Trying to get some of these men and women to LEARN something is asking way to much.
In short, I see us declining in ways not easily legislatible and if it is, I agree with many of you . . . it would be painful and highly charged. (To some degree, it would not surprise me if these labor protests, or what may come, turn violent)
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Legend
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Legend
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I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Dawg Talker
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The solution is brutally simple.
First we must realize that politicians will not solve this problem We Will. We simply STOP giving money to the town drunks and village idiots who are too incompetent to manage 25 cents.
Next comes the brutally simple part. To all who are able, but not working, we make clear that they will either learn to feed themselves, or they will starve to death. Parents with children who can't feed them can either accept sterilization, or watch their children starve to death, as well.
What will then happen is that very few people, if any, will actually die. They will choose to find a way to earn a living. This will ONLY happen when the freebies stop, meaning that those of us who work for a living make a decision to STOP REWARDING STUPIDITY AND/OR LAZINESS.
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Legend
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Legend
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LOL.. while I agree that we need to take a hard stance and while I agree that the freebies need to be drastically scaled back.. Have you thought about what cutting everybody off at the same time would do to the crime rate?
I've had a job and never accepted a handout for the last 20 years but if my back was against the wall I would, in this order...
1. I would do whatever legal job I could find.
2. If I had time I would hunt and plant (assuming I had land to plant) to be as self-sufficient as I could be.
3. if no job was available I would rely on the charity of others for the short term.
4. if no job or charity was available and I could not self-sustain through growing and hunting and my kids were starving, I would steal. I would try to do it non-violently hurting as few people as possible but in the end if that is what it took to provide, I would do it.
Unfortunately what you are going to find is that a lot of people on public assistance are going to go straight to option 4 because option 1 is available now and most won't do it, 2 is not available to somebody without the skills or the land to do it, 3 is not an option if everybody you know is as poor as you and the government just cut off your check... so that leaves option 4.
yebat' Putin
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
If I am a millionaire and I am paying hundreds of thousands of dollars every year
Not likely. Any smart person with a fair amount of "extra income" will have that stashed away in tax-free shelters. Or, for example, have other easy deductions like a big mortgage payment. The more you make, the more you can find loopholes and deductions to NOT pay taxes. I'm not a millionaire by any means but my financial advisor points out how easy it is to avoid taxes with come creative investing. Its so silly how the system works. Yes, it works in my favor right now but I think the notion of "the more you make, the more tax you pay" is absolutely wrong.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Which is why we need a much simpler system, raising the top nominal rate does very little other than make the rich get more creative in how they hide it and the kinds of shelters they use...
As long as you can write off your boat as a second home and write off your big parties as "business dinners" and buy your wife a Mercedes for Christmas and charge it off as an expense to the business, and all sorts of other stuff that I'm not rich enough to even understand, the tax system is not going to work...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Dawg Talker
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I completely agree. It's crazy how it works in the favor of people who make more. Our tax laws really do screw the middle class because they don't have the luxury of hiding their income elsewhere. They have to basically claim all of it and get taxed the most.
I'm all for the flat tax concept myself.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Dawg Talker
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Right, point noted. I'm not so much suggesting that they pay the full tax upwards of 40 or 50% for luxury earnings as much as I am saying even an individual with $1 million in a single year for income would still be paying close to $200,000.00 in income tax even if they only paid 20% in taxes (a number that would still allow them to avoid paying nearly half of their 40% taxes, if not more).
And while it's all relative, it's a joke to think that some individuals pay more in taxes per year than a dozen others even make in stick price. So why shouldn't they be able to choose where their taxes go.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Posts: 190
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
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The high spending in this country is insane and it really needs to be stopped. Where the money goes also needs to be changed...
I think it would be fantastic if we had enough money in the country to fund all these entitlement programs so everyone got a handout. It just simply cannot work that way. The country can't continue to deficit spend for it or everyone will eventually get screwed...
I think a good rule of thumb is that if you are physically able to work then you should have to take care of yourself 100%. Only the disabled and the elderly should receive benefits, and some of the retirement benefits probably could be trimmed as well a little bit.
It really makes me sick how much benefits people get from the state and the feds. For instance, my wife and I know several young couples who don't get married and have several kids... they end up getting all sorts of food stamps and free health care for their kids, college assistance, etc... Its insane how much $$$ the government pours into them. Yet these couples manage to have money to go out to the bars. They even will sell their food stamps. I've been asked before "I'll sell you $100 in groceries for $40 cash." It is sickening.
I'm in my late 20s and have a wife and child and I went to college and got 3 degrees and my wife also got an associates degree. We are making it by but we struggle. No assistance whatsoever. We don't have cash to go out all the time. I'm not complaining but it isn't right for these idiots who don't work to get all the benefits.
I worry about the future of the country for my kid's sake. I just don't see how we can justify pouring all the tax dollars into these programs to fund idiot behavior.
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Dawg Talker
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That's why citizens should be armed and able to defend themselves. Practice regularly. Shoot when necessary and shoot to kill.
In regards to people stealing from those who have earned what they have, what exactly would you call what they are doing now?
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 40,399 |
I like the fair tax... but honestly to think we need a tax code that is 60,000 some pages long is just insane. We founded the entire country on a one page document and now we can't even calculate our income taxes without a team of professional MBAs...
And while we are on the subject, I'm tired of social engineering through the tax code. I don't need a tax break to buy a hybrid car, I don't need a tax break to put solar panels on my house, I don't need a tax break to save for retirement...
yebat' Putin
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