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i'm not gonna sweat this detail as I'm pretty sure both sides had already decided that it would happen a long time ago. the last week was merely public posturing IMO
#gmstrong
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I don't like it has gotten to this point, but as you, i won't sweat it.
It creates some different nuances, but it is what it is.
I am confident we will have NFL football this fall.
If not, it's been a long time since I have been to every Gator home game. Gainesville makes for a nice weekend trip. For the longest, the 1-2 games I attend are cut short to be back home with my Browns friends to watch the game on Sunday. That means leave out Saturday after the game to get a few hours out of the way, or leave Sunday about 4am to get me in my seat at the bar by 1PM.
I don't mind spending both Saturday and Sunday night in Gainesville. I have friends and there are several restaurants of note.
Though I will miss NFL Sundays if it come to that.....but....I did it for a few years not too long ago.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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NFL Official Statement Quote:
The fastest way to a fair agreement is for both the union and the clubs to continue the mediation process. Unfortunately, the players’ union has notified our office that at 4pm ET it had “decertified” and is walking away from mediation and collective bargaining, presumably to initiate the antitrust litigation it has been threatening to file. In an effort to get a fair agreement now, the clubs offered a deal that would have had no adverse financial impact upon veteran players in the early years and would meet the players’ financial demands in the latter years.
The union left a very good deal on the table. It included an offer to narrow the player compensation gap that existed in the negotiations by splitting the difference; guarantee reallocation of savings from first-round rookies to veterans and retirees without negatively affecting compensation for rounds 2-7; ensure no compensation reduction for veterans; implement new year-round health and safety rules; retain the current 16-4 season format for at least two years with any subsequent changes subject to the approval of the league and union; and establish a new legacy fund for retired players ($82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years).
The union was offered financial disclosure of audited league and club profitability information that is not even shared with the NFL clubs.
The expanded health and safety rules would include a reduction in offseason programs of five weeks (from 14 to nine) and of OTAs (Organized Team Activities) from 14 to 10; significant reductions in the amount of contact in practices; and other changes.
At a time when thousands of employees are fighting for their collective bargaining rights, this union has chosen to abandon collective bargaining in favor of a sham ‘decertification’ and antitrust litigation. This litigation maneuver is built on the indisputably false premise that the NFLPA has stopped being a union and will merely delay the process of reaching an agreement.
The NFL clubs remain committed to collective bargaining and the federal mediation process until an agreement is reached. The NFL calls on the union to return to negotiations immediately. NFL players, clubs, and fans want an agreement. The only place it can be reached is at the bargaining table.
http://nfllabor.com/2011/03/11/nfl-statement/
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Posturing by a "union" that really isn't even much of a union.  Great.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Thanks.
I am a pretty fair guy and look at both sides of the coin.
I simply feel the union didn't want to give and keep it as it is when the time came to make a change.
The bottom line is no matter what the courts might say, nothing can dictate they re-open the doors.
YOU CAN'T BE FORCED TO STAY IN BUSINESS.
Now we find out who goes broke quicker.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Interesting read. Not surprising that the league would make it sound as if they are angels, just like it won't be surprising when the union does the same in its statement. As always, the truth is likely in the middle.
The players will buckle first, though, IMHO. Tough to keep a solidified front for a long time.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
YOU CAN'T BE FORCED TO STAY IN BUSINESS.
Now we find out who goes broke quicker.
+1
No matter what the courts say, the owners can stop football from being played in 2011 (and so on). So how long do the players hold out for those few extra millions? As long as their not getting paid, it hurts them more. The owners will win.
Oh well. In some weird twisted way, I wouldn't be too upset with a lost season. It would knock some sense into both sides, make them work harder to make the game better, and it makes the Steelers and Ravens 1 year older. 
Plus, I could stand to save $740 this year towards my Bears season tickets.
If football is played, then good. If not, I'll live. Hooray for the NHL, NCAA's (foot and basket), and MLB then.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'm not sweating it at all.
As you say, Stu, they're both losing. They need to remember what happened after MLB last had a work stoppage. It took a home run derby powered by steroids to get fans back into the seats, but the levels haven't even gotten back to the original levels. The same will happen to the NFL. It was during that time that baseball lost it's reign as the nation's leading sport to football. Football will, in turn, lose it's place among the fans.
I've never really been a big supporter of NASCAR but I might have to look at it. It's hard for me to get excited about a car being driven around in an oval, but who knows. I really do like the Grand Prix events though. Nothing like a good race through the streets.
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Legend
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Quote:
Thanks.
I am a pretty fair guy and look at both sides of the coin.
I simply feel the union didn't want to give and keep it as it is when the time came to make a change.
The bottom line is no matter what the courts might say, nothing can dictate they re-open the doors.
YOU CAN'T BE FORCED TO STAY IN BUSINESS.
Now we find out who goes broke quicker.
That statement about not being forced to stay in business is exactly why I've felt all along that the players, in the end, couldn't win unless the league allowed it.
The owners can shut the doors, lay everyone off and live on thier billions until pigs fly...
By comparison, there are few players that will survive more than a year.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Basically, 1700 of the best players worldwide make up the NFL rosters. There is now nothing to stop the owners from firing those 1700 and bringing in the next best 1700 to play for less money under a new contract with a new set of rules. It may not be the best football in the foreseeable future, but it wouldn't take long to get it back up to par, (years not decades). By decertifying, the current players have forfeited their right to be represented by a labor union, and their union has given up the right to be the exclusive contract negotiator for those, or any, players, now or in the future. Is this really the time and political climate for the the union to try anti-trust suits? I guess we'll see.
As I see it, the owners are in the drivers seat and the ultimate losers are, and always will be, the fans. No matter what happens, prices will rise to compensate. I would love to see what a year, or even of weekend, with no ticket, merchandise or concession sales would do to adjust all the attitudes and egos involved.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
Basically, 1700 of the best players worldwide make up the NFL rosters. There is now nothing to stop the owners from firing those 1700 and bringing in the next best 1700 to play for less money under a new contract with a new set of rules. It may not be the best football in the foreseeable future, but it wouldn't take long to get it back up to par, (years not decades). By decertifying, the current players have forfeited their right to be represented by a labor union, and their union has given up the right to be the exclusive contract negotiator for those, or any, players, now or in the future. Is this really the time and political climate for the the union to try anti-trust suits? I guess we'll see.
As I see it, the owners are in the drivers seat and the ultimate losers are, and always will be, the fans. No matter what happens, prices will rise to compensate. I would love to see what a year, or even of weekend, with no ticket, merchandise or concession sales would do to adjust all the attitudes and egos involved.
Good point. If the owners don't have a lockout, can they sign who they want for whatever they want to pay them now? It seems that it might be to their advantage to not have a lockout, so they can still have the option of using replacement players. I'm not sure if this is even an option, but if it happens, players will cross the line and be back before long. If not, as Cal said, the league will be built up again with new players. It's will be just as though all the current players retired or something -except that if the league goes on as usual, there's no way the majority of players won't be back before long.
I think the union may have just cut off its nose to spite its face.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Wow on the following details . I'll admit I was never a DeSmith fan, but now I have zero respect for him. I hope that the players completely lose as much as possible through this debacle. NFL releases details of its proposal After 16 days of mediated talks, the NFL and the players' union could not reach agreement on a new labor deal. The NFL released what it described as a summary of its proposal to the union: 1. We more than split the economic difference between us, increasing our proposed cap for 2011 significantly and accepting the union's proposed cap number for 2014 ($161 million per club). 2. An entry-level compensation system based on the union's "rookie cap" proposal, rather than the wage scale proposed by the clubs. Under the NFL proposal, players drafted in rounds 2-7 would be paid the same or more than they are paid today. Savings from the first round would be reallocated to veteran players and benefits. 3. A guarantee of up to $1 million of a player's salary for the contract year after his injury, the first time that the clubs have offered a standard multiyear injury guarantee. 4. Immediate implementation of changes to promote player health and safety by: reducing the offseason program by five weeks, reducing OTAs (organized team activities) from 14 to 10 and limiting on-field practice time and contact; limiting full-contact practices in the preseason and regular season; and increasing number of days off for players. 5. Commit that any change to an 18-game season will be made only by agreement and that the 2011 and 2012 seasons will be played under the current 16-game format. 6. Owner funding of $82 million in 2011-12 to support additional benefits to former players, which would increase retirement benefits for more than 2,000 former players by nearly 60 percent. 7. Offer current players the opportunity to remain in the player medical plan for life. 8. Third-party arbitration for appeals in the drug and steroid programs. 9. Improvements in the Mackey plan (designed for players suffering from dementia and other brain-related problems), disability plan and degree-completion bonus program. 10. A per-club cash minimum spend of 90 percent of the salary cap over three seasons.
Last edited by clwb419; 03/11/11 10:05 PM.
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Part of me thinks De Smith was in this as much to create a legacy as he was to get the best deal for the players. He may go down in infamy.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Quote:
Quote:
Basically, 1700 of the best players worldwide make up the NFL rosters. There is now nothing to stop the owners from firing those 1700 and bringing in the next best 1700 to play for less money under a new contract with a new set of rules. It may not be the best football in the foreseeable future, but it wouldn't take long to get it back up to par, (years not decades). By decertifying, the current players have forfeited their right to be represented by a labor union, and their union has given up the right to be the exclusive contract negotiator for those, or any, players, now or in the future. Is this really the time and political climate for the the union to try anti-trust suits? I guess we'll see.
As I see it, the owners are in the drivers seat and the ultimate losers are, and always will be, the fans. No matter what happens, prices will rise to compensate. I would love to see what a year, or even of weekend, with no ticket, merchandise or concession sales would do to adjust all the attitudes and egos involved.
Good point. If the owners don't have a lockout, can they sign who they want for whatever they want to pay them now? It seems that it might be to their advantage to not have a lockout, so they can still have the option of using replacement players. I'm not sure if this is even an option, but if it happens, players will cross the line and be back before long. If not, as Cal said, the league will be built up again with new players. It's will be just as though all the current players retired or something -except that if the league goes on as usual, there's no way the majority of players won't be back before long.
I think the union may have just cut off its nose to spite its face.
It has long been time for the gravy train to end,.....
I was a Quinn fan when we drafted him,....what's he getting now from the Browns for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ?
This is the owners' business and it is entertainment -- i.e. they don't supply electricity or some other PUCO controlled necessity. They should be allowed to run it the way they want, considerations withstanding (safety, integrity, etc.)
The players will be back,...they will just have to agree to do what they were doing for less, and they'll still be better off than 99% of America.
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j/c
I have never met DeMaurice Smith and I know nothing about the guy but listening to him talk and watch how completely arrogant he is when he speaks I am convinced he is a complete a-hole. And I am also sick and tired of hearing him say the word "dig", this isn't the 70's and you aren't J.J from Good Times.
I'm sitting here listening to the guy talking about the players and the NFLPA being a buisiness partner. A buisiness partner?
I'm sorry but you and every player in the NFL is an employee. Your not a business partner. A buisiness owner needs his workers and won't get very far without them but that in no way shape or form makes them a business partner. Make no mistake the players are nothing but workers, they can be fired/cut but you can't make the owners sell the team.
I agree on a few items on the table but trying to make the owners open up the books to try and get more money out of them is completely ludacris. If I walked up to my boss and demanded him to open up his books and demanded more money he would either fire me or laugh in my face. There is no difference between that and the NFL in my book.
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JC
Well.. Thats that. Now it's a waiting game and we'll find out someday when there is an agreement IF there is one.
I wanna tell you guys, this is one hell of an irritated dawg who's typing you are reading right now. I predicted this would happen, I predicted there will be an huge fan backlash and for me it starts right the hell NOW!
These morons cannot figure out how to divide 9 billion. Gawd damn, I wish I had such freakin problems.
My personal hope is that these jackasses lose their shorts. I'm a season ticket holder and a PSL owner and I'm beyond annoyed at the way that I've been treated. The customer service is beyond non-existent. They blow smoke up my shorts and tell me that I have a new "personal rep" at the Browns.. well, this moron cannot get my seats moved when I tell her I wanna get a different set of seats and guess what? I'm willing to PAY more for it!! You don't want my MONEY??
I call this maroon and it's a waiting game until she calls me back IF she freakin calls me back about questions / issues that I have. I've talked with other season ticket holders and their experience is no better.
DeMaroon Smith and Bag of Manure Goodell and all their idiots can take a bath in oozing pile of fresh pig crap for all I care.
The best I can see happening is that they cancel all the preseason games start the regular season on time and refund me 1 frikken lousy ashed percent for the worthless pre-season games I have to pay full price for and I can't get rid of the damn things that I throw in the garbage.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110312/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_nfl_labor Quote:
The NFL said its offer included splitting the difference in the dispute over how much money owners should be given off the top of the league's revenues. Under the expiring CBA, the owners immediately got about $1 billion before dividing the remainder of revenues with the players; the owners entered negotiations seeking to roughly double that.
But the owners eventually reduced that additional up-front demand to about $650 million. Then, on Friday, they offered to drop that to about $325 million. Smith said the union offered during talks to give up $550 million over the first four years of a new agreement — or an average of $137.5 million.
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J/C
Mr. Smith just showed who the greediest of them all is. He is a lawyer first and foremost. IMO this is all being done to prop himself up as some kind of hero. The players are going to lose big. The deal that was offered seems to be everything they wanted......except, the opening of the books. These are bully tactics being used by a career lawyer, representing a union full of players who, IMO, at least 70% of them probably have no idea what is actually happening to their job.
These types of moves are what gives unions a bad name. The guys at the top, pulling the strings, take advantage of a group of workers who basically live off there every word. They were getting a fair deal, Smith is trying to make a name. I feel sorry for the players, who right now are probably praising this guy for playing hardball. In a few weeks the reality will set in. His plan during the season to get all the players to agree to decertify, was a tell tale sign that he was planning to go all the way, whether a good offer was made or not.
I say #@*& them all. If the players are too stupid to realize what this ego driven lawyer is doing, then I hope a couple of them have to pawn their diamond earrings to save their mansions and 5 cars.
I know many will say that the owners are guilty here, but I don't see it. Read the offer, the players are getting just about everything they want. Wanting to see the books, when they know for certain that it doesn't have to be done, is posturing. I've read that the financial people the union hired had more than enough information to understand where the owners stood financially.
If you want to say greed is at the heart of this, then Smith is the greediest of all. We must remember, that no matter how long this goes on, Smith will be getting paid. By decertifying, basically any contract that was signed by a union player, now no longer exists.
Time to go fishing, the spawn is just around the corner.
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Just a question.
If the union decertified, and legally does not exist, couldn't the drafted players, who have never been part of the union still sign with teams?
Couldn't the owners offer them individual contracts to play for their team? I mean, there is no union for them, so basically they would become company employees. They then could go to Berea and begin their training.
I can't see how if the union no longer exists, how they can keep players from meeting with coaches or even practicing. I'm sure those who have been in the union wouldn't do it at first, but if down the road, the teams offered some kind of compensation, they might give in.
No union, no contracts right?
I say bring on the replacement players, I'll be glad to watch.
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Quote:
JC
Well.. Thats that. Now it's a waiting game and we'll find out someday when there is an agreement IF there is one.
I wanna tell you guys, this is one hell of an irritated dawg who's typing you are reading right now. I predicted this would happen, I predicted there will be an huge fan backlash and for me it starts right the hell NOW!
These morons cannot figure out how to divide 9 billion. Gawd damn, I wish I had such freakin problems.
My personal hope is that these jackasses lose their shorts. I'm a season ticket holder and a PSL owner and I'm beyond annoyed at the way that I've been treated. The customer service is beyond non-existent. They blow smoke up my shorts and tell me that I have a new "personal rep" at the Browns.. well, this moron cannot get my seats moved when I tell her I wanna get a different set of seats and guess what? I'm willing to PAY more for it!! You don't want my MONEY??
I call this maroon and it's a waiting game until she calls me back IF she freakin calls me back about questions / issues that I have. I've talked with other season ticket holders and their experience is no better.
DeMaroon Smith and Bag of Manure Goodell and all their idiots can take a bath in oozing pile of fresh pig crap for all I care.
The best I can see happening is that they cancel all the preseason games start the regular season on time and refund me 1 frikken lousy ashed percent for the worthless pre-season games I have to pay full price for and I can't get rid of the damn things that I throw in the garbage.
Bravo! The fans, esp. the STL's are the one's who can get these people to pull their heads out of their arses. The PSL's, the forced full price preseason tickets, the 8 dollar beers....they're ripping the fans off blind. When and only when people refuse to give in to this crap and refuse to put up with the bickering will they realize just who provides the billions they're squabbling over.... and that without the fans they have nothing.
If this goes to a lockout, the last thing the fans should do is flock back and act like it never happened. I don't believe in holdig grudges, but in this case I think it's necessary. If they can stick together, the fans will be holding all of the cards.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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well first jfanent....the players decertified so the owners would be unable to lock them out. So there is not going to be a lock out....
In a general reply tho.....I am also leaning with the general sentiment from the latests posts. Frankly...the longer this goes on and the more I find out....the more I side with the owners...(who are by no mean innocent victims in this....they have some devil horns as well) But as I see it...they are the ONLY ones to have made ANY concessions in a negotiation where the Players will HAVE to lose something. ANd I agree completely on the comments being made concerning DeMaurice Smith. I thought from day one that he was the wrong guy to lead them when they had their elections. The mediation was a sham from the beginning and they knew they were going to litigation the whole time. I don't hope the players lose big...that doesn't help the league either....I hope Smith loses big and the players wise up and get rid of him....then work to make a fair deal for both sides.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Quote:
well first jfanent....the players decertified so the owners would be unable to lock them out. So there is not going to be a lock out....
In a general reply tho.....I am also leaning with the general sentiment from the latests posts. Frankly...the longer this goes on and the more I find out....the more I side with the owners...(who are by no mean innocent victims in this....they have some devil horns as well) But as I see it...they are the ONLY ones to have made ANY concessions in a negotiation where the Players will HAVE to lose something. ANd I agree completely on the comments being made concerning DeMaurice Smith. I thought from day one that he was the wrong guy to lead them when they had their elections. The mediation was a sham from the beginning and they knew they were going to litigation the whole time. I don't hope the players lose big...that doesn't help the league either....I hope Smith loses big and the players wise up and get rid of him....then work to make a fair deal for both sides.
DeMaurice Smith and the players walked away from what looked like a pretty fair compromise on the behalf of the owners.
Frankly I thought that the owners would have taken an even harder stand on some of the issues.
Smith walked away, because the League would not show their books. I think he planed to decertifi the union from the beginning.
Like a child who is mad, because he couldn't get Park Place in a game of monopoly.
There will be a lockout know. That's the only way the League can avoid anti trust suits from players.
Way to go and thanks for nothing guys. 
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Just a general comment ......
That release from the league looks to my outside layman eyes to be a pretty damn eqitable agreement that seems to favor the players in a lot of regards. I cannot believe that they walked away from that rather than continuing to work towards a final solution. I cannot believe that they are that far apart right now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Just a general comment ......
That release from the league looks to my outside layman eyes to be a pretty damn eqitable agreement that seems to favor the players in a lot of regards. I cannot believe that they walked away from that rather than continuing to work towards a final solution. I cannot believe that they are that far apart right now.
"You won't show us your books...we aren't playing" 
I agree YTown. The owners seemed willing to bargain. Is it the 325 million split 32 ways? 10+ million, that's like a good OL salary for one year. I mean I just can't see where the players have much of a grip here.
I can't wait to hear the spin they put on this... Wait yes I can.
Consider the apple cart tipped!
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Dawg Talker
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What you have to remember is that The Owners and the NFL will not open the books...Granted it is squabling over a boat load of money, but the easy solution is to open the books..Of Course they don't want the players to see the serious Ching they are missing out on..
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Hall of Famer
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I am very much a pro union person but this is a freaking joke. They never wanted a deal to get done. They were hell bent on getting this thing before the judge that has given them everything they have ever asked for.
We are currently fighting 2 wars. The housing market is in ruins. Gas is about to hit 4 bucks a gallon. We are still neck deep in the great recession and jobs are almost impossible to find.
Now we are expected to have sympathy for a bunch of spoiled brats that aren't happy with getting almost everything they have ever wanted. OO and be sure having Von Miller's name in a lawsuit is an attempt to stop the draft and hurt the owners by taking a shot at the fans.
If I am advising the owners, I find out just how willing the players are to go out and get a real job to support their families.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
 It's Modell's fault! How is it Modells fault? Well first of all we wouldn't have this problem if it wasn't for the NFL draft reaching new popularity, the rookies reaching new popularity over the last 16 years ( With nothing to talk about from March through April it was these potential 1st round picks getting media attention which.. the media attention led to them getting too much money in their first contracts which led to nearly 10 million dollar per year contracts for 1st overall picks, even if he is a bust at defensive line. Who led that Media attention, over the last 16 years, well argueably it was Mel Kiper jr. on Espn and he is an admited Ravens Fan, and the Ravens are Modells team. So it's Modells Fault!  Don't take anything I might say on this subject too seriously, because I just don't have the information. But it's fun to blame Modell .
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,525 |
Quote:
What you have to remember is that The Owners and the NFL will not open the books...Granted it is squabling over a boat load of money, but the easy solution is to open the books..Of Course they don't want the players to see the serious Ching they are missing out on..
Some teams might be making a lot of money. Those might also be the teams that are paid off ..... like the Browns. The Lerner family paid for the team outright, and never carried a loan.
Their books would look like they are making a fortune, with tons of income .. and few cash outlays on an annual basis.
Other teams, like the Rams, that were just purchased for 3/4 of a billion dollars might have books that look good for many of the past 10 years ... before the new owner bought the team at a huge price.
I don't know if Jerry Jones took the money for his new stadium out of "Cowboy" assets ..... or whether he paid for that in a different manner. If it didn't come out of "team money", then the Cowboys books would show an inflated value as well.
There are all kinds of reasons why the owners won't open their books, the biggest being that it might not tell the whole, accurate story of the state of the NFL for all owners. (Including almost every new owner nwho has taken on extreme debt, or spent a ton of personal money to buy the team ..... or both)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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Well now everything is back on the table. 18 games, rookie caps, FA requirements... The owners will make them play fro this move.
I thought it was odd the the owners put up such a fuss trying to keep this from happening. It's not like they can't afford litigation. I almost think they lured the NFLPA into this move.
With no union, there will be no lock out. Teams can practice, play, etc.
Unless the court determines the NFL is a monopoly, it will be able to conduct business despite the players union. If the court rules against the NFL, what will they do,,, become 32 teams without a central HQ?
The players should form thier own football league... oh wait, they can't afford the overhead.
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Hall of Famer
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There will be a lockout know. That's the only way the League can avoid anti trust suits from players.
The anti-trust suits have already been filed, as soon as they decertified. So there will be no lockout.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
There are all kinds of reasons why the owners won't open their books, the biggest being that it might not tell the whole, accurate story of the state of the NFL for all owners. (Including almost every new owner nwho has taken on extreme debt, or spent a ton of personal money to buy the team ..... or both)
Exactly. That is why in the final proposal before the union walked out the league offered to show them audited financial statements. These statements normally aren't even provided to the clubs.
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Hall of Famer
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OO and be sure having Von Miller's name in a lawsuit is an attempt to stop the draft and hurt the owners by taking a shot at the fans.
Kinda sorta. By doing this, it puts the draft in jeopardy which in turn causes more of a fan backlash.....because all along the media/league reported there would still be a draft even if it reached this point. It is yet another tactic being used by the player's association. I'd say they learned some tricks from their last decertification. (that lasted 4 years and resulted in them earning Free Agency)
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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j/c
I have to say, I've thought about it, and, ASSUMING what the league said it offered is as fair as it sounds, I think the union really dropped the ball.
Now, like I said before, the league makes it sound like they were willing to do sooooo much and the union didn't want to give up anything. If it's true, then the union's in the wrong, IMO. But, I don't generally trust anything that one side says in public, and that goes for what the union says, too.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Hall of Famer
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There will be a lockout know. That's the only way the League can avoid anti trust suits from players.
The anti-trust suits have already been filed, as soon as they decertified. So there will be no lockout.
MINNEAPOLIS — Star quarterbacks Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees and Giants defensive end Osi Umenyiora are among the players who filed an antitrust lawsuit against the NFL on Friday to prevent a lockout.
Just after the players’ union decertified, the star passers and seven other players filed suit against the NFL in U.S. District Court, seeking class-action status. They also filed a request for an injunction that would keep the NFL and the teams from engaging in a lockout.
The players allege in the lawsuit that NFL teams conspired to deny the players’ ability to market their services, "through a patently unlawful group boycott and price-fixing arrangement or, in the alternative, a unilaterally imposed set of anticompetitive restrictions on player movement, free agency, and competitive market freedom."
The CBA with the league was set to expire at the end of Friday.
The players allege that the NFL conspired to deny the players’ ability to market their services in what is a $9 billion business. They cite as constraints what they called the league’s history of antitrust violations, including a potential lockout, the draft and the franchise and transition player designations. Teams use those designations to keep key free agents off the open market, but the players also are well compensated when they sign new contracts.
The case was assigned Friday afternoon to U.S. District judge Patrick Schiltz, not his colleague David Doty, who has overseen NFL labor matters since the early 1990s and has several times ruled in favor of the players. The lawsuit still could end up in front of Doty. New cases are randomly assigned to judges when they’re filed, but they are sometimes reassigned to others on the bench with expertise in a certain issue.
****
Their 3 headed poster child.
What a joke. These are 3 of the highest paid players in the league.
They want to kill the draft.
They want to turn the League into another MLB.
As far as I'm concerned. they should be band from ever playing in the League again.
The League has worked hard to be a competitive League. Now these few would like to kill the game as we know it.
Keep in mind that the last time the union decertified and anti trust suit was filed [ by Reggie White] there was no FA.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Unless the court determines the NFL is a monopoly, it will be able to conduct business despite the players union.
I don't know if the court will see it this way, but there's the CFL and the UFL (not to mention arena leagues) that are considered professional football leagues. I don't see how the NFL can be considered a monopoly when any player in the NFL can go to one of those leagues and play. While the NFL might be the best game in town, it's not the ONLY game in town.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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the franchise and transition player designations. Teams use those designations to keep key free agents off the open market, but the players also are well compensated when they sign new contracts.
Last time I checked, the franchise and transition tags were part of a deal that the union AGREED to. How can they sue over something that the members approved at the last CBA agreement? Whiners!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Hall of Famer
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Their 3 headed poster child.
What a joke. These are 3 of the highest paid players in the league.
They want to kill the draft.
They want to turn the League into another MLB.
As far as I'm concerned. they should be band from ever playing in the League again.
The League has worked hard to be a competitive League. Now these few would like to kill the game as we know it.
You are rambling nonsense..... 
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Quote:
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the franchise and transition player designations. Teams use those designations to keep key free agents off the open market, but the players also are well compensated when they sign new contracts.
Last time I checked, the franchise and transition tags were part of a deal that the union AGREED to. How can they sue over something that the members approved at the last CBA agreement? Whiners!
Whiners! Yes they are. If they had their way... It would be a free for all with no hard cap.
To do away with the draft.
Well that's just plain ignorant.
Von Miller's stock has just went belly up Imo.
For the greater good for all. I don't ever want to see any of the players who filled suit, suit up for another game in the NFL ever again. They put their selfish motives above the that of the game.
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Legend
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Legend
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There will be a lockout know. That's the only way the League can avoid anti trust suits from players.
The anti-trust suits have already been filed, as soon as they decertified. So there will be no lockout.
I'm not 100% certain there won't be a lock out Shep,. Read below
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League plans to lock out players, whose union decertified
WASHINGTON -- NFL labor talks broke down Friday, just hours before the collective bargaining agreement was set to expire, as the union rejected a proposal from the league, then decertified, and 10 players, including MVP quarterbacks Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, sued the owners in federal court.
In response, the NFL planned to impose a lockout of players, starting at midnight ET, after the CBA officially expired, two team sources told NFL Network insider Michael Lombardi. No official announcement of a lockout was made.
The players went to court to request an injunction to block such a move by the league.
Despite two extensions to the collective bargaining agreement during 16 days of talks overseen by a federal mediator -- and previous months of stop-and-start bargaining -- the sides couldn't agree on a new labor deal.
"The parties have not achieved an overall agreement, nor have they been able to resolve the strongly held competing positions that separated them on core issues," mediator George Cohen said. "No useful purpose would be served by requesting the parties to continue the mediation process at this time."
By dissolving and announcing it no longer represents the players in collective bargaining, the union became a trade association and cleared the way for class-action lawsuits against the NFL, which opted out of the labor deal in 2008. The antitrust suit -- officially known as Brady et al vs. National Football League et al -- attacked the league's policies on the draft, salary cap and free-agent restrictions such as franchise-player tags.
Invoking the Sherman Act, an 1890 federal antitrust statute that limits monopolies and restrictions on commerce, the players are seeking triple the amount of damages they've incurred. That means the stakes could be in the hundreds of millions.
It could take a month for there to be a ruling on the union's injunction request, and antitrust judgments should take longer.
The CBA originally was due to expire last week, then was extended twice, in hopes that the sides could find common ground on the key issues: how to divide more than $9 billion in annual revenues, and how much financial information the league would be willing to reveal.
"I would dare any one of you to pull out any economic indicator that would suggest that the National Football League is falling on hard times," NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith said. "The last 14 days, the National Football League has said, 'Trust us.' But when it came time for verification, they told us it was none of our business."
It all sets the stage for a courtroom fight. The last time NFL games were lost to a work stoppage came when the players went on strike in 1987, leading to games with replacement players.
Even though the NFL is early in its offseason -- and the regular season is six months away -- this is hardly a complete down time. Free agency usually begins in March, and hundreds of potential free agents are now in limbo. Also this month, under a regular schedule, offseason workouts would start, and the owners meet to establish rules changes.
Plus, March and early April are when many sponsors and corporate partners renew their deals with the NFL, part of why the league says hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue now will be lost.
"This obviously is a very disappointing day for all of us," New York Giants owner John Mara said. "I've been here for the better part of two weeks now, and essentially ... the union's position on the core economic issues has not changed one iota. One thing that became painfully apparent to me during this period was that their objective was to go the litigation route."
Labor negotiations timeline
A chronology of developments in NFL labor negotiations before Friday's union decertification:
2008
» NFL opts out of its collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Players Association, saying its costs are too high and it needs givebacks from the players. 2010 season will have no salary cap.
» Union leader Gene Upshaw dies in August.
2009
» After six months without an executive director, the players elect Washington attorney DeMaurice Smith.
2011
» On Jan. 18, union files collusion claim against owners regarding lack of movement of restricted free agents.
» On Feb. 5, the two sides meet for short negotiations one day before Super Bowl in Dallas.
» On Feb. 14, NFL files charge against union with National Labor Relations Board for not bargaining in good faith because of its plans to decertify.
» On Feb. 18, federal mediator George Cohen begins working with the two sides in Washington. Sessions follow for 16 days between then and Friday.
» On March 1, U.S. District Judge David Doty rules the NFL's contracts with the TV networks to collect $4 billion even if no games are played in 2011 is "lockout insurance."
» On March 3, with the CBA due to expire at midnight, the two sides agree to extend the pact for another 24 hours.
» On March 4, the two sides agree to extend the CBA for another week.
» On Friday, after rejecting the NFL owners' proposal, the NFLPA decertifies, giving up its right to represent the players.
-- Associated Press
The NFLPA also decertified in 1989. Antitrust lawsuits by players led to a 1993 CBA that included free agency, and the union formed again that year.
The sides met from 10 a.m. until about 4 p.m. ET Friday, discussing a new proposal by the league's owners. When the possibility of another CBA deadline extension was raised, Smith said the union first wanted assurances it would receive 10 years of audited financial information from the league.
"I will tell you this: Any business where two partners don't trust each other, any business where one party says, 'You need to do X, Y and Z because I told you,' is a business that is not only not run well, it is a business that can never be as successful as it can be," Smith said.
At 4:45 p.m., Smith and the union's negotiators left. About 15 minutes later, the union decertified, saying it now becomes a professional trade association that supports the interests and rights of current and former players.
The players' union immediately shut down its websites -- NFLPA.org and NFLPlayers.com. A search for NFLPA.org yielded this message: "Error 404: Football Not Found. Please be patient as we work on resolving this. We are sorry for the inconvenience."
NFL general counsel Jeff Pash said the owners were on a conference call discussing the NFLPA's financial-records request when the union decided to decertify.
"No one is happy where we are now," Pash said. "I think we know where the commitment was. It was a commitment to litigate all along."
A league statement added: "The union left a very good deal on the table."
After Pash spoke, outside union lawyer Jim Quinn said: "I hate to say this, but he has not told the truth to our players or our fans. He has, in a word, lied to them about what happened today and what's happened over the last two weeks and the last two years."
Smith also strongly disagreed with Pash's assessment of the deal. Smith said the players were willing to give the league up to $1 billion in cash per year to fill revenue gaps in exchange for an equity position in an NFL team or any NFL property.
"And we were told by their lawyer a few months ago that his clients weren't, quote, interested," Smith said. "And when we made that same proposal today, we didn't even get a response."
The NFL said its offer included splitting the difference in the dispute over how much money the owners should be given off the top of the league's revenues. Under the expiring CBA, the owners immediately received about $1 billion before dividing the remainder of revenues with the players; the owners entered negotiations seeking to roughly double that by having an additional $1 billion up front.
But the owners eventually reduced that to about $650 million. Then, on Friday, they offered to drop that to approximately $325 million. Smith said the union offered during talks to give up $550 million over the first four years of a new agreement -- or an average of $137.5 million.
"We worked hard," said NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who was joined at mediation Thursday and Friday by nine of the 10 members of the owners' labor committee. "We didn't reach an agreement, obviously. As you know, the union walked away from the mediation process."
Also in the NFL's offer, according to the league:
» Maintaining the 16 regular-season games and four preseason games for at least two years, with any switch to 18 games down the road being negotiable.
» Instituting a rookie wage scale through which money saved would be paid to veterans and retired players.
» Creating new year-round health and safety rules.
» Establishing a fund for retired players, with $82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years.
» Financial disclosure of audited league and club profitability information that isn't even shared with the teams. That was proposed by the NFL this week, and rejected by the union, which began insisting in May 2009 for a complete look at the books of all 32 clubs.
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Pash outlined each element of the owners' last offer and ended nearly each with the phrase: "Evidently not good enough."
When Goodell, Pash, Mara and owners Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Richardson of the Carolina Panthers emerged from Cohen's office shortly after 5 p.m., they sounded hopeful that negotiations would soon resume.
"We're discouraged, we're frustrated, we're disappointed, but we are not giving up," Pash said. "We know that this will be resolved in the negotiation process. We will be prepared to come back here any time the union is ready to come back here."
Said Goodell: "We do believe that mediation is the fairest and fastest way to reach an agreement that works for the players and for the clubs. And we believe that, ultimately, this is going to be negotiated at the negotiating table. They've decided to pursue another strategy, and that is their choice. But we will be prepared to negotiate an agreement and get something done that is fair to the players and fair to the clubs."
NFL Network insiders Albert Breer, Jason La Canfora and Michael Lombardi, as well as The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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