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Good points, C — Clutch. Struck me this way: Without the NFL, AP is much, much less if a celeb at all; without AP, the NFL is doing pretty quite dadgum nicely, thank you very much, and the AP Sequel will be gloried up and emplaced. Most of us would volunteer for a year or so of this CyberSlavedom and sit the bench and fill the jersey for third of what he will make. I would throw in the whine and lunacy for nothing. Gratis. If it is too rough or rotten or unfair, pack.  
the players and owners need each to coexist. the players are the best at what they do, and the owners have the deep pockets, and business acumen to put the whole thing together. Put some scabs in there for the long haul, see how long the league prospers. And Vice versa.
Lol what makes you think all the owners have deep pockets do they have a endless supply of money in there basement or do they have money makin machines in there house .Making a statement that the owners have endless supplies of money or deep pockets is incorrect its not free to operate stadiums and teams .Dont get me wrong i think the owners a part of the problem they made these money hungrey players. 
To be fair MIB,, the biggest costs that the owners face is the players. What was the cap last time we had one, around 120 million I think.
If you look at the cost of the adminstrative staff, coaches, trainers, and the Berea facility for instance, the costs are managable for billionaire owners.
Some do and some don't have stadium costs to contend with. so that's a case by case basis.
Last I checked (and it's been a long while) the browns had an adminstrative staff of about 40 people.. This doesn't count the coaching staff but does count the scouting staff.
I'm guessing that counting Holmgren in this mix, the entire payroll for that side of the staff is not more than 10 million a year.
Add in the coaching staff and facility costs, I bet you don't cross over 13 million a year.
So, while thier pockets aren't really endless, they can all cover that for a year.. maybe more if needed and I don't think it will be.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Lol what makes you think all the owners have deep pockets do they have a endless supply of money in there basement or do they have money makin machines in there house .
Nobody, except Obama, has an endless supply of money or a money making machine.. that said, most of these owners do not rely on their football teams to make them rich.. they were rich before they bought football teams and they would be rich if that football team went away... how many of the players would be rich if football went away?
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Making a statement that the owners have endless supplies of money or deep pockets is incorrect its not free to operate stadiums and teams .
They do have deep pockets.. but they are business people so it's not endless...
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Dont get me wrong i think the owners a part of the problem they made these money hungrey players.
So did we, the fans.. .prices keep going up, we keep paying it.. they start a network, we watch it... they have games on Thursday we go and we watch, they have games on Saturday, we go and we watch.. they cut or trade our favorite players so we go buy somebody elses jersey.. they jack up PSL prices, we pay them... they jack up beer prices, we pay them... they start charging to get into camp, we pay it... I wouldn't be surprised if those discussions weren't happening right now behind closed doors...
Owner 1 - You realize all of this fighting is about how to divide up $9 billion right?
Owner 2 - Yea, right.
Owner 1 - Well what if we had MORE than $9 billion?
Owner 2 - What do you mean?
Owner 1 - If we raise all of our prices just 5% on tickets, apparel, food and beverages etc, we could have $9.7 billion.. we could offer that other $700 million to the players, then we get keep all of our money and they get most of what they want... The people will pay, they always do.
Owner 2 - Good plan.. 
**Disclaimer - most of those numbers were made up.. like almost all of my stats and numbers. 
yebat' Putin
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I would think that in the year of our Lord 2011, all peoples would careful how they use words like Slavery / racist and so on ?
Also ; it should be evident that a large number of College Athletes parked there car on one side of the University and walked across campus to the Athletic Dept .. That was the extent of there higher learning ... Shameful ..
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I would think that in the year of our Lord 2011, all peoples would careful how they use words like Slavery / racist and so on ?
On the other hand ..... it shows just how far away from slavery we have come, that someone making millions of dollars can compare himself to a slave.
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Also ; it should be evident that a large number of College Athletes parked there car on one side of the University and walked across campus to the Athletic Dept .. That was the extent of there higher learning ... Shameful ..
Irony? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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irony....hehe
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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My first reaction is, "WOW." Does this guy have the slightest idea of what the regular everyday person is going through with the economy and other job related troubles? 
Mine was to wonder what this was doing in the Pure Football forum.
Now I must go and email a Vikings fan buddy of mine and laugh at him.
And now we can laugh at the Stiller fans too for Mendenhall saying similar crap.
rashard mendenhall is smarter than us
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I'm glad he didn't use big words that I wouldn't understand.
yebat' Putin
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I'm glad he didn't use big words that I wouldn't understand.
Like "innerworkings"? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Your wink symbol gives me no satisfaction ! .. In have been insulted , and will remember ..
A typing error { There / their ) hardly falls into the same category as the comment by AP.
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I find myself thinking professional athletes can't possibly get any dumber as a collective.... and then someone new says something. Or worse yet, tweets it.
Just ridiculous.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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putting this here because it really looks more and more like the NFL players are going to stomp their feet on this one. i become less optimistic the more i read on it. here are the points of the letter that Goodell spelled out that went to all players. if you click the link, then you can also see the reaction of some of the players. so far, one side has come off very business like (NFL) and the other side has come off as angry (players) Quote:
His letter goes point-by-point through 10 categories Goodell said were included in the NFL's last proposal. Among them:
-Salary and benefits would be $141 million per club in 2011, and rise to $161 million by 2014;
-Free agency after four seasons;
-Less offseason work and fewer padded practices in the preseason and regular season;
-Keeping a 16-game regular season for at least the next two seasons and not changing to 18 games without the union's agreement;
-Guaranteeing up to $1 million of a second year of a player's contract if he is injured and can't return to play;
-A new rookie compensation system;
-A jointly appointed neutral arbitrator for all drug and steroid appeals.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/03/17/goodell.email.ap/index.html#ixzz1GxrXs9ii
#gmstrong
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-Keeping a 16-game regular season for at least the next two seasons and not changing to 18 games without the union's agreement;
Yeaaaaaa!!!!!  I am NOT a fan of going to 18 games.
yebat' Putin
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-Keeping a 16-game regular season for at least the next two seasons and not changing to 18 games without the union's agreement;
Yeaaaaaa!!!!! I am NOT a fan of going to 18 games.
don't be dancing yet. it could still be a chip the owners use.
"oh, you want the cap to be $155mil? well, the only way we could do that is if we go 18 games"
#gmstrong
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if you've read the other nfl topic on the issue of the lockout, i definitely have sided more with the players than with the league and owners, but i can't stand for that. what a stupid statement to make at a very very bad time.
i believe those guys are worth what they have been paid, and i believe they should continue to make that kind of money, but playing in the nfl is still a privledge. he may as well have spit on the grave of the people who actually went through that horrific period in the history of this country. unacceptable.
although i would like to hear the context of it. i'd like to see the tone and how he said it, but it still looks bad.
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I don't remember if this was posted ..... but a Steeler agrees with Peterson ..... http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...ry-comparison/1Rashard Mendenhall defends Adrian Peterson after 'slavery' comparison Pittsburgh Steelers RB Rashard Mendenhall offered support to Minnesota Viking RB Adrian Peterson on Wednesday after the latter came under fire for comparing locked-out NFL players to "modern-day slavery." Mendenhall said Peterson's critics have been too harsh and have not taken time to digest the broader meaning of his remarks. On Twitter, Mendenhall said: "Anyone with (knowledge) of the slave trade and the NFL could say that these two parallel eachother ... is correct in his (analogy) of this game. It is a lot deeper than most people understand." He also linked to and referenced an article in The Nation that took an analytical and sympathetic look at Peterson's use of the the "slavery" analogy. Fellow players such as Green Bay Packers RB Ryan Grant and New Orleans Saints RB Heath Evans have scolded Peterson for his remarks. EVANS: Peterson's comments 'moronic at best' But Mendenhall, even after being criticized on Twitter, defended his analysis of Peterson's comments. Said Mendenhall: "If you look back and (dissect) what I said, I (didn't) say that the NFL was slavery, I said that they parallel eachother. Look up the word parallel ... This means that they're not the same thing, but they run the same course. These paths will never cross, but they mirror eachother. ... I could break down how, but that would take an amount of ideology and big words that a lot of you wouldn't understand. ... Learn to LISTEN before you pass (judgment). Because speaking without knowledge of subject is truly ignorant. ... Outside of the dollar amounts you see on tv, you don't know what's going on with the innerworkings of this (business)."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I also want to add that this is kind of symptomatic of why the players will wind up losing in the end ....... ESPN Headline. (video, same link as below) Moving Home To Save Money During Lockout Jets guard Matt Slauson moved his family back home to save money during the NFL lockout. If he's moving back home to save money ...... what happens when the stragglers start running out of money? How long do those guys hold on? Then ....... you have guys I have never heard of grabbing up Arena jobs ......  http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6227522With the league in a lockout, NFL players aren't permitted to use team facilities and are working out on their own. Two players will try to stay in football shape by playing the game -- in the Arena Football League. Cleveland Browns receiver Rod Windsor signed with the AFL's Arizona Rattlers on Wednesday. He follows the path taken by Dallas Cowboys receiver Troy Bergeron, who signed with the Cleveland Gladiators earlier this week.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I love how ESPN makes a headline out of 2 Arena football players signing Arena football contracts.
Yeah, these guys made the practice squad for a small portion of the year on a NFL team. But, they were AFL guys before and with no guarantees they'll be on NFL teams with or without a lockout, they are AFL guys now.
#gmstrong
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Yeah ... but do you think that the guys who are playing on minimum contracts have saved their money in the event of a strike/lockout? There are a lot of guys who have a chance to make a roster this year who might find themselves in the position of competing against a "double" rookie class if this mess drags on and the year is lost. Once the union gets out of their ear, and they start to realize that their one chance at making an NFL team is slipping away .... and that they have little or no money to show for the "sacrifice" they are making ..... well ..... some of those guys might not be quite as loyal.
Look at the guy who didn't get the big signing bonus .... and who, despite the size of the check, is, regardless, living paycheck to paycheck. He was living high on the hog .... out enjoying his time off ...... checks rolling in ........ playing with his friends .... chasing the ladies ...... money rolling in .....
And now the checks stop.
Now you have a bunch of young kids who want to have the prestigue that goes with being an NFL player .... who want the star lifestyle ....... and now ..... they can't, because the money has stopped pouring in.
The stars have money. They won't cave. The Mannings, Roethlisbergers, Bradys, and other guys who have reveived millions and millions in annual contracts and signing bonuses could quit today and live quite lavishly. Many of the "grunts" aren't in the same position.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I expect that the guys you are speaking of is the reason the UFL decided to get created. They will likely poach many of those fringe players and hope that enough people want to watch their games.
#gmstrong
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The UFL is nothing. Those players are being paid next to nothing to play. "Ordinary"players get $35,000. "Specialists" (kickers, punters, and snappers) get $25,000. Each team may pay its starting QB more than the minimum. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/01/more-details-on-ufl-pay-scale/The UFL has also required a $150,000 transfer fee for players under contract to move up to the NFL. Think that marginal guys want to get into a situation where someone might pay them the league minimum .... but not the league minimum plus a $150,000 fee? This is going to be a mes, and the bottom end guys are going to be the ones who get hurt the most. The stars have their money, and are set. The 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th year guy who is making league minimum on a non guaranteed contract with no signing bonus ..... well, he might be living an NFL lifestyle, that will come to a crashing halt once the checks stop. Those guys aren't going to go anywhere else .... because they might not be able to get out of a competing contract, and wind up losing their NFL job as a result.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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if it gets into the season, and the players think that there will not be a NFL season, then yes, I think there will be many 1 year deals signed.
and that salary is contingent on what the league is making. if a marketable player wants to go to the UFL, then I could see them making 3-4X that amount. still less than the minimum in the NFL, but make more than they would doing some odd-job (and still keeping in shape for when the NFL does come back).
the UFL was banking on this lockout, so do not be surprised to see them try to make a big push. i don't know if they can pull it off (I doubt it as I'll just watch more college and do chores on Sundays), but they will definitley make their move.
#gmstrong
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Perhaps, but it would take a complete overhaul of their alary structure, and an overhaul of a player's ability to break their UFL contract without enormous financial penalty.
I can't think of too many UFL players who have come back to the NFL and made any kind of impact. The quality of player simply is not there. Their star QBs are NFL washouts, who would be hard pressed to make a practice squad.
I actually watched a couple of their games last year. It was a step above a pickup game in the backyard ... with officials.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ok, one more to make my points more clear. *1 year contracts (do not need to be broken to go back to NFL next year that way) *Last year, UFL standard contracts paid $50K for 8game season. If they expand the games and expect their revenue to increase through TV and/or at the gate, then they can pay more. Specifically to marketable players they target. And note that this figure was likely to increase even without a NFL lockout as attendance went from 9K in '09 to 16K in '10 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2010-10-01-ufl-preview_N.htm*Finally, throw everything you "know" about the UFL away. The owners in that league will try to milk a lockout year for all it's worth. That will include taking gambles on salary structure, etc. It's hard to know what measures they will take if they feel they can actually make a dent on our sports conscious *So, it doesn't matter what quality of players 'were' there or what players have come back to the NFL. What matters is what players do they sign, can they get a better TV deal, and will anyone bother to show up or watch?
#gmstrong
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I love it when idiots out themselves with alacrity.
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However .... let's say that some players do sign with the UFL .... marginal kids ... who might make a squad as the 48-54th guy .......
These kids would make a minimum of $350,000, or whatever the minimum is now .....
Except and unless they go to the UFL, and then they are locked into that league for the year. There is no "I changed my mind and want to go back to the NFL now that they're playing again".
What player is going to go play for even $75,000 (a 50% increase over last year) when they can wait it out and make the league minimum of over 4 times that?
I don't see the UFL as a viable refuge for NFL players.
I did find it amusing that the UFL is losing money hand over fist ...... and one of the primaries is Nancy Pelosi's husband. There's a certain irony to that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ok, now you are getting to a good point. Yes, the UFL won't be able to start grabbing players until the NFL season has started to fall apart.
you mention a $50K vs. $350K difference last year, but realize that the UFL is only 8 games vs. 16. So, once games start getting cancelled, that margin starts to dwindle.
if the UFL pushes back to start in mid-October, then there's a chance you are talking about a $75K guaranteed vs. $200K "if they have the season". Then, it will depend on how desperate those individuals are for the $$$ and how much progress has been made in negotiations.
#gmstrong
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and yet another.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- link Birds' Weaver says stop treating us 'like slaves' Tuesday, March 22, 2011 Posted: 7:45 p.m. CSNPhilly.com Earlier this month, Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson called the NFL’s current business model and labor stance “modern-day slavery.” On Tuesday, a heated Leonard Weaver, speaking with CSN’s Derrick Gunn from Birmingham, Ala. where he is rehabbing his injured knee, agreed with Peterson’s sentiment. “We as players want to make a statement that you know what, we love playing for you all, we love your owners, you know? We love you guys very much, but at the same time we need to see some equal opportunity here and stop treating us basically like Adrian Peterson said, like slaves,” Weaver said. Weaver continued on to say that the labor dispute is about more than just money. “We as players, we are an important part of this agreement here and an important part of this league,” he said. “We care about our benefits and who we are. It’s not just about money, but it’s about our livelihood after the game of football. “I want people to understand that we as players are gonna stand strong in our opinion and we’re gonna really fight this thing until it gets solved.” As for when this situation gets solved, Weaver is not so sure. “Right now, I think that we as players, we really want to be treated equally and we really want this thing to come to an end,” Weaver said. “But at the same time we are ready to take the necessary steps that we need to as a union and as players sticking together to say, ‘Look, we’re not all about this lying and trying to be two-faced and trying to show the public one way or say one thing to the public and make it look bad on us. Hey, we are going to stand our ground and do what we believe and we are going to stick through until something comes down to it.’” Weaver and Peterson join Albert Haynesworth as players to recently compare their place in the NFL to that of a slave. All three are among the highest-paid players at their position.
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Watch what you wish for Weaver,....you might just get treated "equally." You can come down to Home Depot and help me load these 49 boxes of laminate for this floor,....
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These guys are so disconnected from the real world it's ridiculous.
And the thing is, most of their parents probably toiled in day to day jobs all through their youth, and could explain what they have is nothing like slavery.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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They want to be treated "equally" ... to what? They are not the team owners. They will not, and should not be treated equally to the team owners. They are employees, and don't make the capital investment in the teams that is required to be treated as some sort of "equal". Quote:
“We as players want to make a statement that you know what, we love playing for you all, we love your owners, you know? We love you guys very much, but at the same time we need to see some equal opportunity here and stop treating us basically like Adrian Peterson said, like slaves,” Weaver said.
This has to be one of the most idiotic statements I have ever heard anyone make with regards to a business. It makes no sense whatsoever.
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“We as players, we are an important part of this agreement here and an important part of this league,” he said. “We care about our benefits and who we are. It’s not just about money, but it’s about our livelihood after the game of football.
About your livelihood after the game? Plan the million you make while you are playing the game and you don't have to worry.A guy who plays for 3 years isn't a guy who should be supported for life. Why would he be? He played a few years ... made a lot more money than he ever would in the private sector ..... then moved back into being an ordinary citizen ..... with an ordinary job. It happens, deal with it.
As far as the 15 year guy ... well if you play 15 years in the league, you're making millions and millions. If you don't plan, then you are the one who has planned to fail.
I wonder if any of these guys realize that they will lose, forever, a year's worth of earnings if there is no season next year. They'll never get that back. Their career won't magically and automatically lengthen because they sit out a year. For some of the guys at the back end of their career, it could be the end. If a guy who is hanging on for a 10th season has to sit out that season without pay .... then has to compete with a double rookie class .... it could be even earlier retirement than he planned.
These guys are like political hacks ........ they pick up catch phrases without having the slightest clue what they are talking about.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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if you look at the article that shep posted in the main CBA portion, they are asking for equity in the teams. so, they really do want to be team owners.
and it should surprise noone that the owners said no to that request.
#gmstrong
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You know what, I think they are right. Let them be paid like owners. Give them a percentage of the revenue of the individual team. They don't get bonuses, they don't get up front money. That way, they will be able to be paid a lot if everything is good. If the team has a bad year and they play for what amounts to be ten thousand dollars, sorry that's the deal you signed when you became a player.
Ticket sales are down? The country is going through financial crisis? Yep. Sorry. Wait til the vendors and staff are paid and then you can get a part of your "owners" cut.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Adrian Peterson says the NFL is
like slavery
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![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
