DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Is this draft class destined for failure?

The top of this class is the craziest I can remember.

The #1 running back has 4.6 speed and could fall to the second round.

There could be as many as 6 offensive tackles taken in the first and not one elite left tackle prospect of the bunch.

Most have Gabbert the number one quarterback and yet he threw a total of 16 tds for the entire season. Cam Newton rushed for more touchdowns than Gabbert threw. Both are from the spread. Neither is accurate and I expect both to be gone before the Browns even pick.

#3 quarterback had one of the worst season's ever for a guy considered top 5 as a junior. He was exposed as a senior. The #4 quarterback has the best arm, and is the only one to actually run an NFL style offense, he is also a coaches son. You could time his 40 with an hourglass and he has allowed rumors to kill his stock.

The number one corner is 220 lbs and absolutely no fat on him. Just think when he physically matures he can be a 240lb corner.

The top receiver was suspended for 4 games for selling his jersey. The #2 receiver has a broken bone in his foot. The (arguably) #3 receiver cant catch and cant run a route.

The two top pass rushers were one hit wonders. One has a bum knee and the other was a one hit 2 seasons ago. Quinn has a year to work on nothing but the combines and the super athlete looked super ordinary.

The #1 Outside linebacker needs to learn how to play linebacker.

You can probably get the #1 safety in the 4th round, right before the #1 interior linebacker gets taken.

#1 DT has 11 sacks in 3 years. The #2 DT was arguably the dirtiest player in football or he is deaf and never actually heard a whistle.

The #1 intererior linemen's greatest quality is that his brother played well as a rookie.

There will be a couple home runs out of this years first round but this draft is ridiculous with risk. My favorite prospect out of the first is still JJ Watt and he may not go top 15.

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You can probably get the #1 safety in the 4th round,

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Rahim Moore in the 4th round? I don't think so.

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The #1 intererior linemen's greatest quality is that his brother played well as a rookie

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So you are saying Mike Pouncey, probably a late first round pick, best quality is that his brother had a great rookie season? I don't think so.

If teams were going on how well a prospects sibling played in the NFL, Casey Matthews would be a top 10 pick.

But i do think this is the only draft in about three or four years that i have really not liked anybody . I did really like jones but first of all how are we going to get him and second of all hes got a broken foot. i like peterson a little bit but dont really think the browns will take another db early in the draft . So basically theres not anybody im really wanting them to take this year . Last year it was mccoy i was wanting the year before i wanted matthews but you dont always get what you want .

I agree that it is a pretty weak class at the top...compared to the last 2 for sure, even with all the JRs in it...that said, I think that's where the value is...to identify the JRs, who have still have tons of upside/ceiling...Green, Peterson, Jones, Fairley, Dareus, Gabbert are the obvious ones...of all of those only Fairly had 1 good season, so that's a red flag for e right there, esp. for a DL

Gabbert IS accurate, every scouting report worth anything mentions that, also the TD # is overrated anyways, he had 24 TDs the year before being 5% less accurate...they simply ran it in more. Also, you should start to think as to why he's considered a top talent with those pedestrian numbers....obviously the talent around him was crap, esp. the OL. Also, I think you forgot Ponder, he will be the 3rd or 4th QB taken, maybe even in the 1st....and he's a solid bet coming off an injury down year

Overall, there's a lot of fringe to AVG NFL talent in this draft with lots of boom or bust type of prospects mixed in....that's where scouting comes into play, more than just film scouting: character, desire AND projectability because every character/desire of the world won't help if there's isn't any room for improvement (ceiling)....in the top 15 the best mix of all of this at DL is DE Jordan imho...versatile, durable, productive and still some untapped potential...Green, Peterson and a little less Dareus qualify too....prospects like Bowers, Quinn, Fairley, Miller, A.Smith are all boom or bust kind of guys...they're all good at 1 thing right now, 1 trick ponies, many are schematically limited too...if the trick doesn't fool NFL talent, they will be busts....it's like a Minor League baseball prospect with 1 plus plus MLB pitch and the rest a work in progress, it won't be enough to become a good regular in most cases

The value of this draft comes between the 3rd and 5th round imho, the drop off from prospects drafted in round 2 is the shortest in a long time, 75% because most of the 2nd round guys aren't "that" good/Sure prospects (would be 3rd+ rounders the last 2 years) and 25% because there are more mid round talents

I hope we consider trading down our 2nd rounder for additional picks, barring a Top 30 guy falling to us...problem is, with this tight talent group, the team's boards will differ even more than ever, so every team will get "steals" falling to their picks, which combined with no allowence to trade NFL players will lead to les trading I guess....

this draft will tell me a lot about Heckert, I trust him and have high hopes but otoh I put high standards on him. As long as he avoids the prospects I absolutely don't want, like he did last draft then that's a good start (wasn't a huge fan of McCoy and Mitchell, but McCoy was Holmgren not Heckert and Mitchell was considered a mid round pick, so in the 6th I was ok with the risk flyer...and McCoy has already proven me and Heckert wrong, so that's ok too...guys like Ward and Lauvao were drafted higher than I thought, but I considered them both NFL talents, so I didn't care as much where we picked them: identify talent and go for them: trust your scouting)

This draft class isn't weak IMO.. It's just not balanced.. There's more talent on defense to me than offense. There are lots of good picks to choose from.

and in regards to the offensive lineman.. no more than 4 will be taken in the 1st round..

Maybe for all you draft junkies it isn't very good, but for me it looks like an opportunity to get a damn fine player in Round One.

I'm hoping we also have a good number 2.

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Gabbert IS accurate, every scouting report worth anything mentions that ...

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The irony of that statement is hilarious! Are you implying that if it doesn't mention that, the report is worthless? A different viewpoint is worthless?

No, I'm saying that all scouting sites I've known over the years that I filtered out that were (proofed to be) any good...all THOSE have him as an accurate passer.

Fell free to post reports saying something different but please don't give me stuff from sites like draftcountdown, if that's where you read stuff like that...there are dozens better sites to get valuable (more in depth) reports from

edit: from yesterday btw...and Brandt is a big Newton supporter:

http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/03/17/gabbert-answers-questions-about-accuracy/

Noone knows if Gabbert is NFL accurate because he never had to be in Mizzou's system. Almost everything he threw was underneath. Spread offenses in college tend to trend that way, but Mizzou's does even more than most.

So, will he be accurate on deep outs or crossing patterns 15-20 yds down the field? I don't know. You don't know. And scouts don't know because we haven't seen him do it in game situations.

but, many try to say they know:

Since you asked, a couple that say he's inaccurate (just grabbing the first couple that came up on google):

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/57963...e-first-rounder

http://www.walterfootball.com/forum/show...-the-2011-Draft

I don't get the comment on Petersen.

He will be a pro-bowl corner the first several years of his career, then a HOF type safety.

he was stretching for that one to try to get everyone on a negative slant for this post. like being a 220lb machine with good speed and virtually no body fat is a bad thing for a NFL player.

Blaine Gabbert garners praise for pro day performance

by Dan Kadar on Mar 17, 2011 9:10 PM EDT in 2011 NFL Draft

According to most published reports, Missouri quarterback Blaine Gabbert excelled at his pro day on Thursday.

In front of what NFL Network's Mike Mayock said were 100 to 150 scouts and coaches, Gabbert completed 58 of 63 passes. Three of those passes, according to Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, were dropped by receivers.

On Path to the Draft, Mayock said Gabbert drove the ball with accuracy and timing.

"His arm strength is more than enough," Mayock said. "His footwork was cleaner than I expected. … It was a better throwing mechanics workout than what Matt Ryan had. It was just as good as Sam Bradford had.

Bottom line, he's the first quarterback off the board and I wouldn't be surprised if Carolina took him No. 1," Mayock said.

Thomas reports that among those in attendance were head coaches Marvin Lewis (Cincinnati), John Fox (Denver), Leslie Frazier (Minnesota), Jim Harbaugh (San Francisco), Mike Munchak (Tennessee) and Rex Ryan (New York Jets).

One team not in attendance was the Carolina Panthers, holders of the first overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft. Instead, the Panthers are having Gabbert in for a workout on Saturday. On Wednesday, he's supposed to throw for the Arizona Cardinals.

On Thursday night, he had a meeting scheduled with the Vikings. Gil Brandt of NFL.com reported that Gabbert met with the Bills on Wednesday night.

The Bills and Vikings meeting with Gabbert may not matter because it's possible Carolina will take him first overall.

That's the opinion of NFL Network's Michael Lombardi, at least.

"The only way I'm going to beat New Orleans or Atlanta is to have a quarterback," Lombardi said on Path to the Draft. "If I'm the Carolina Panthers, he's on the card I'm turning in. I need Blaine Gabbert right now."

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These are some pretty solid endorsements

Great, if he's a guarantee top 5.. that just moves everybody else down a notch and improves the odds of us getting who we want.

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The #1 running back has 4.6 speed and could fall to the second round.

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He also has a Heisman trophy and tons of game tape to suggest he plays faster than 4.6.

And a running back will go in the 1st round. Since 1980 there has been at least one running back drafted in the 1st round.

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There could be as many as 6 offensive tackles taken in the first and not one elite left tackle prospect of the bunch.

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Tyron Smith is that guy. The only reason he didn't play left tackle in college is because Matt Kalil plays there at USC. And he is a beast.

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Most have Gabbert the number one quarterback and yet he threw a total of 16 tds for the entire season. Cam Newton rushed for more touchdowns than Gabbert threw. Both are from the spread. Neither is accurate and I expect both to be gone before the Browns even pick.

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Does it even matter that guys are from the spread anymore? A lot of NFL teams are in the shotgun just as much as they are under center. And I agree that Newton has accuracy issues, but isn't that one of Gabbert's strong points?

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#3 quarterback had one of the worst season's ever for a guy considered top 5 as a junior. He was exposed as a senior. The #4 quarterback has the best arm, and is the only one to actually run an NFL style offense, he is also a coaches son. You could time his 40 with an hourglass and he has allowed rumors to kill his stock.

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Locker also played with no one. No one. The only thing he had going for him was his coach. And who cares if Mallett isn't fast (or at least average speed)? His game is not scrambling or throwing on the run.

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The number one corner is 220 lbs and absolutely no fat on him. Just think when he physically matures he can be a 240lb corner.

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And? All positions have physical freaks. We have guys (J.J. Watt) running 4.80 40's who are 6'6" 290 pounds.

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The top receiver was suspended for 4 games for selling his jersey. The #2 receiver has a broken bone in his foot. The (arguably) #3 receiver cant catch and cant run a route.

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Who cares if he sold his jersey? He says he didn't know it was a problem. He admitted it, unlike Dez Bryant who lied to the NCAA about his infractions, and then produced on the field. Julio Jones had a broken bone in his foot, yes. So did Michael Crabtree, he went #10 overall and has played pretty well for a team with a crappy coach and no QB. And he had character issues. Julio Jones doesn't.

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The two top pass rushers were one hit wonders. One has a bum knee and the other was a one hit 2 seasons ago. Quinn has a year to work on nothing but the combines and the super athlete looked super ordinary.

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Can't argue with the take on Bowers. But Quinn probably would have produced in 2010 had he played. Quinn ran a 4.62 forty. And he's 6'4" 265. That's insane. He also had one of the top 10-yard splits among DE's.

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The #1 Outside linebacker needs to learn how to play linebacker.

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Von Miller? The guy who played linebacker in college? And has had no problems in coverage thus far.

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You can probably get the #1 safety in the 4th round, right before the #1 interior linebacker gets taken.

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Rahim Moore, the top safety, has a 2nd round grade anywhere you look. So him going in round four is not happening. And the last time a inside linebacker wasn't taken in the first round was 2006. The first inside linebacker taken? Demeco Ryans. (Martez Wilson has at least a 2nd round grade everywhere I've seen).

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#1 DT has 11 sacks in 3 years. The #2 DT was arguably the dirtiest player in football or he is deaf and never actually heard a whistle.

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Since when is the DT's main job getting sacks? Especially when you are playing in a 3-4 half the time. Who cares if the guy is dirty? My biggest concern with Fairley is that he had one good year.

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The #1 intererior linemen's greatest quality is that his brother played well as a rookie.

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Danny Watkins has a brother?

Having an exact DNA match in the NFL is a good thing (especially if that DNA is successful). But Pouncey also has many other things going for him. He started in the SEC three straight seasons. And he can play any of the three interior lineman positions.

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There will be a couple home runs out of this years first round but this draft is ridiculous with risk.

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Every draft has risk. You are giving millions of dollars to a 22-year-old kid.

Thought this could go here:

Limited Demand Hurts Already Low Value of Running Backs

By Steve Wyche NFL.com Senior Writer

As I was posing questions to an NFL general manager about the value of running backs prospects and the overall draft class at the position, I got a question boomeranged back toward me: How many teams, right now, really need a running back?

It took me a minute. Miami, obviously, because Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown will become free agents. Washington and then maybe Seattle, at least in terms of needs a running back. Nobody's really dying for one, I guess.

Then came the follow up to the GM's initial question: Doesn't just about every team have other positions to address which could be considered more important than running back?

Yes, yes and yes. In fact, just about every team needs help -- more help -- at other positions besides running back. Many teams have a value scale that makes the same determination. Running backs tend to come up on the back end of that scale for this draft.

"There might be some running backs good enough to go in the first round, but is the need stronger at left tackle, outside linebacker?" the GM asked. "Teams have to ask themselves, can we get through this round better without the running back or a left tackle?"

That line of thinking is a precursor to several GMs telling me that this also simply isn't a great draft class at the position. Alabama's Mark Ingram is considered the only running back likely to be selected in the first round -- he's widely projected to the Dolphins at No. 15 -- but from conversations I've had, it wouldn't be stunning if he slipped into the late first or even the second round.

That scenario could become reality because not only is Ingram not necessarily a game-changer like Adrian Peterson, but also because he's hampered by the trend of teams finding greater value at the position outside of the first round.

The Texans' Arian Foster, who went undrafted, was the NFL's leading rusher last season. The second-leading rusher, Jamaal Charles of Kansas City, was a third-round draft pick. Tampa Bay's LeGarrette Blount, a candidate for Offensive Rookie of the Year, went undrafted last spring. Cleveland's Peyton Hillis, who rushed for 1,177 yards and 11 touchdowns, was a seventh-round pick in 2008. Green Bay rookie James Starks, a sixth-round pick, emerged from injuries late in the season to become the Packers' main ball carrier during their Super Bowl run.

Conversely, past high picks from the past two drafts have only shown flashes due to injuries and inconsistency at a position many NFL evaluators say is one of the easiest to make an immediate impact. That list includes Knowshon Moreno (No. 12 overall), Donald Brown (27) and Beanie Wells (31) in the 2009 draft, and C.J. Spiller (No. 9), Ryan Mathews (12) and Jahvid Best (30) in 2010.

That's not to say that if there was a monster running back available, teams pass. All six of those running backs were taken in the first round (three each) the last two drafts.

That's just not the case with this group of prospects.

"In regards to the running back group, there are more second/companion and third/specialty running backs than [featured] running backs this year," another general manager said.

Besides Ingram (5-foot-9, 215 pounds), the top running backs include Kansas State's Daniel Thomas (6-0, 230), Illinois' Mikel LeShoure (6-0, 227), Oklahoma State's Kendall Hunter (5-7, 199), Jacquizz Rodgers of Oregon State (5-6, 196) and Virginia Tech's Ryan Williams (5-9, 212).

All are considered players who can contribute right away, but none are viewed as must-haves -- at least when it comes at the cost of a high draft pick. The one thing we do know is that someone no one is talking about is going to emerge from this group.

One GM said that he is intrigued by the amount of change-of-pace backs in this draft. Many of the prospects are coming from spread offensive systems, meaning they're adept at reading coverages, catching the ball and making plays in open space. This could be the perfect crop of players to find the complement to say, Peterson, Pierre Thomas or Frank Gore.

"You're seeing more scatback types than pounder, inline types," the GM said. "You can hit on running backs and wide receivers in the mid-rounds (that are) as good or better than all other positions."

While six running backs were taken in the first two rounds last season, the first being Spiller, six were also taken during the final two rounds, with Starks being the most notable. Only two were selected from rounds 3-5. In 2009, four running backs were taken in the first two rounds, including three in the first. Nine were chosen in the sixth and seventh rounds, combined. Nine also were taken rounds 3-5.

So what's clear is when it comes to running backs, things will go in cycles. In a year or two, some of the current workhorses will be wearing down, possibly at the same time that a sizeable group of running backs will be entering the draft. But this isn't that year.

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Best post I've read this year.

I will say that I disagree with Peterson. I think he's as prototypical a shutdown CB that I've seen in many many years. He's a fine prospect.

I also like Dareus, Watt and Carimi.

But overall this draft is LOADED with players with issues in the first round.

I would have no problem taking a 2012 first round pick and move down 10 spots or so.

Good comments. Thanks!