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ahhh, I see.
What's the policy on headphones though? If the school, I assume, says no and the normal teacher is letting kids rock snoop dogg in the middle of class, let alone while talking to you, I can only assume that place is like a zoo.
You can raise kids to be saints, but if teachers let them do whatever they want, they (the kids) will take advantage of that.
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The time came during fourth period. The student walked into class. He had his headphones on, and I could hear music coming out of them.
Just trying to piece the scene together, so the student walked into class late, rocking the headphones? Was the teacher with another student not looking your way?
I can only imagine walking into class late, wearing headphones at any of my schools.
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I was never trying to insult anyone on here with my opinions, which as I have said before, have never been too popular and in anyway close to a majority.I still stand by them as they are commons sense opinions that its only obvious a parent raising their child is always better than a daycare.
Now I would also like to say I never said if both parents worked the child was going to grow up to be an axe murderer
I never said if both parents worked the kid would grow up to have no manners. You can still teach your child to know right from wrong while holding down a full time job. I am just saying if one parent is there full time it is better for the child down the road .
Some on here have made it clear how successful they and their families have become while being raised in a family with two working parents. There is a lot more to raising children than how much much money they can earn when they grow up. there are alot of well mannered young adults too but that still doesn't mean they aren't lacking in things that a parent might have taught them had they been there full time.
I was not personally raised in a way that my children are being raised. I was well mannered and treated people with respect. would have helped out anyone stranded alongside the road ,did anything for anyone. I was also drinking every night. using language not fit to be used, living my life anyway I chose and this is where a parent makes the difference. so my parents raise me to be well mannered but alot of parents who drink and smoke and cuss themselves fail to find these thing important in the up-bring of a child ( can't wait to hear the responses on this statement)
anyhow would like to share something I found on the web that makes some pretty good points on the importance of a stay home PARENT (not necessarily a mother for those so easily offended)
Last week, I dropped my 3-year-old son Seth Isaiah and my 1-year-old daughter Noelle Cayce to daycare for the first time ever.
It broke my heart to leave them there.
Despite my fears and broken heart, both babies did very well their first day, didn’t cry, and actually seemed to enjoy the daycare.
But after 3+ years of my wife staying home with the babies, it is a strange phenomenon to leave them with people I barely know. My wife Eva just returned to work as a teacher, allowing her to finally get out of the house and back to her career, but also breaking her heart as well, as she is so used to being with the babies all day.
When my wife became pregnant with Seth, almost four years ago, we decided that it would be great for the baby if she could stay home and take care of him. It was something we both really wanted, so we looked at how we could accomplish it (more on that below). It wasn’t easy, as our finances were already tight, with four kids already in school, but we managed it.
And it was great. She stayed home not only with Seth but also with Noelle, and we have cherished that luxury of having a parent in the home with our babies.
The Value of a Parent Staying Home with Kids
Why was it so important to us that Eva be able to stay home with the kids, and why were we so willing to make the sacrifices required to make that happen? It’s simple: there’s no one better to raise our kids, care for them, and teach them than their parents.
Eva was the obvious choice to stay home with them, although I would have loved to do so myself, because she was breast-feeding them and because it would be easier for me to make the extra income required once she quit her job, as I can freelance on the side.
Here are a few of the reasons we decided that it would be valuable for Eva to stay home with the babies:
* Breastfeeding. Again, Eva wanted to breastfeed the babies, as it is so much healthier for them. It’s definitely possible to breastfeed and go to work at the same time (requiring the working mother to pump milk), and many people do this, but it’s much easier if the mom is at home.
* Loving care. I know that daycares actually do a good job at caring for babies, but there’s no substitute for a parent’s loving care. We felt that our babies would be so much better off with that care from their mother, that they would be happier and better-adjusted for it.
* Bonding. By staying home, Eva was able to create a special bond with her babies. It’s possible, of course, to create such a bond even if you go to work, and I tried to do that myself by spending as much time with my babies as possible when I wasn’t working, but it’s obviously easier to create that bond if you’re with them all the time.
* Teaching. Babies begin learning from their parents at a very early age, and as such parents are usually their first and most important teachers. We felt it would be valuable for them to learn from Eva rather than a daycare teacher, and I think we had very positive experiences with this learning process.
* Learning about the babies. In the same way that the babies learned from Eva, she also learned about them. Being with them all the time allowed her to know, in an intuitive way, what they need, what they like and don’t like, how they react to things, what their developing personality is like, and what stage of development they’re in at the moment.
Am I saying that parents who don’t stay home are worse parents, or that they are doing a disservice to their babies? Not at all, and please don’t take this article as an attack on parents who go to work. We did this with most of our other kids, so I understand the realities of parenting today.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Based on your story and your description of the students, classroom setting and issues, I have to ask. What makes this kid, and probably others in the class Special Ed? Has Special Education specification changed that much since I was in school, back then Special Ed students were typically those that had serious mental and/or physical disabilities. Your student sounds more like someone who had no desire to learn (probably because his mom doesn't stay home  ). Maybe I'm wrong because I'm not there, didn't meet the kid. It's just what I got so far from your posts about this kid, that there is nothing wrong with him other than lack of motivation.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Your student sounds more like someone who had no desire to learn (probably because his mom doesn't stay home ).
Here's a better idea. Maybe he was born not caring
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It isn't my place to tell him to take off his headphones when his regular teacher was in the room and she didn't say anything to him.
That's fine...your role is not as an authority figure...but what about as a human being? Is it too much to ask the kid to take off the headphones while he talks to you 1 on 1???? Person to Person??? Not even a "Dude...the headphones...really??? Can we talk for a second without them???"
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She probably lets the kid wear headphones because if she doesn't, then he won't come to school at all - and nothing gets solved this way.
Doesn't sound to me that anything is being solved her way either. I can appreciate the problems she faces. My Brother in Law taught in the Cleveland School System and was also in the adminstration over at Rhodes which is a "Last Chance" school. I have heard the "war" stories as 79 says. And I wish I had the answers. I know my brother in law has reached some of them and others he was unable to. But I do know alot of it came down to respect. Respect for others. Respect for oneself. Not some warped Thug version of respect that is born from fear. But a true respect that comes from trust. And 50 minutes a day is not a very long time to make that kind of change.
And even when they make that change, they still have the steepest of uphill battles because of either past transgressions, or even just their social economic situation. And so many will get discouraged when the golden dreams don't automatically fall from the heavens because they got on the right path. They have to keep working hard..it never stops. Many may not want to do that. To know they may never reap the benefits of their hard work. Knowing that their children will have a better shot...and their chilldren an even better shot, may not be good enough. Add to that a culture as well as a government that continually tries to make them dependants. I know, because I have seen where people who were just asking for a little help for daycare were told to quit their good paying jobs by social workers. One of our friends was even told..."If you have another kid, we can get you...". And as far as the culture thing...my wife as a property manager of low income housing, sees it every day where people are TAUGHT to abuse and take advantage of the system and also how people are pressured by family members to go that route because it is "easier" than working a Job.
Like I said I don't have the answers. But these are just some of the problems we face. And some of the problems that are indirectly facing those teachers. The headphones seems like a small thing....but you know what...it is about respect....and respect is no small thing. It is those small things, if you can win those battles, where you can build your positions to take hold and start to reach those kids. and that is their best chance.
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I was not personally raised in a way that my children are being raised. I was well mannered and treated people with respect. would have helped out anyone stranded alongside the road ,did anything for anyone. I was also drinking every night. using language not fit to be used, living my life anyway I chose and this is where a parent makes the difference. so my parents raise me to be well mannered but alot of parents who drink and smoke and cuss themselves fail to find these thing important in the up-bring of a child ( can't wait to hear the responses on this statement))
I have to ask this. Don't you think that maybe those experiences of drinking, language etc were instrumental in making you who you are. Your parents instilled manners and values in you, but you have to learn through your own mistakes, and if those core values are there, you most likely will come out OK and with a better understanding of life in general.
A mom who is home all day but drunk or high is better than a mom who works 2 jobs but expresses her love and care for her children every chance she gets?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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sees it every day where people are TAUGHT to abuse and take advantage of the system and also how people are pressured by family members to go that route because it is "easier" than working a Job.
My mom taught various elementary grades for 30 years mostly in Toledo Public Schools (just retired at the end of last school year). Last year she had a kindergarten boy come in and say to her that his mom was having another baby so they could get more money. This was a 5 year old saying this! It's very sad how kids are being taught by their parents that being supported by the government is a good thing. 
#gmstrong
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In my school, we had a man named MR. Schoonemaker. If he was in your school, there would have been no need for him to tell the student to remove the headphones, they would have come off with amazing speed when the student saw him approach.
I emphasize the "MR" because he had a first name, which NO ONE used because we saw what happened the one time someone called him by it. That never happened again, and 35 years later I still tell that story.
There is one reason that rules are obeyed, and that is FEAR of the consequences. No fear, no rules, you get anarchy, and no teaching happens.
There are nicer ways to put it, but they're all BS.
Now if you just want to run a babysitting service, or supervise a free activity period, by all means do not try another method, since the ones currently in use have been so stunningly successful.
You say the hard line has been tried and failed. I say they didn't do it right.
As for the original report, you apparently have no idea whatsoever what it was that needed correction. Maybe he spelled "Loenard" wrong, maybe he didn't use periods, maybe it was poor penmanship. Good odds it had nothing at all to do with what you were trying, with no result, to tell him. Would have taken only a few seconds to find out from the teacher.
The disruptive and unwilling should be allowed to leave, this gives more time to teach the others.
Again, no teaching happened here. That IS the goal of the exercise, isn't it? What's worse is that there was not even an ATTEMPT at teaching, since their was no knowledge of the needed subject matter.
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Just curious, but what consequences do you suggest that these teachers can hand out that kids will respond to?
Teachers today cannot touch or raise their voices to these kids at without some idiot parent who doesn't give a darn about their kid running to the TV stations to say how the school "disrespected" their child. The teacher is always wrong it seems in these situations. It is one of the reasons that my mom retired - everything is always the teachers fault in todays society. You couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher.
Now, if my son disrespected a teacher he knows that there will be dire consequences from ME as I know the school really cannot do anything. When I went to school teachers could command respect as their hands were not tied as to the punishment that was doled out.
Last edited by ColumbusDawg; 03/24/11 10:21 AM.
#gmstrong
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maybe it was poor penmanship.
Man, how old are you? Hehe ... penmanship.
There are no sacred cows.
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he could be real old and say it is poor penmanship and it's from his nom de plume anyway
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I guess I just mean that if this was a project, hopefully it was typed. I wasn't graded on penmanship after 5th grade. I still remember when I entered 6th grade and they said they didn't care if I wrote in cursive anymore or not. Awesome day.
There are no sacred cows.
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i was just making a joke using old fashioned words 
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j/c This is how it would have happened to me when I was in school (assuming there was such a thing as an mp3 player  ) Not saying its write or wrong, but.... Teacher: "I_Rogue, I need to speak with you." Teachers pulls headphones off my head "If I see them again, they're mine. The paper you wrote was garbage. Do you not know one thing about Sugar Ray? If you ever want to amount to anything, its time you get off your lazy @$$ and put for the effort you are going to have to put forth after you get out of here. Grab a pencil, go sit in the corner and create me an outline of Sugar Ray. You aren't going anywhere until I get it." At this point I would go do it. When I was late getting home, dad would ask what happened and I would tell him. He would then decide if it was belt worthy or not. I would then write the paper and get an "A" or a "B".
"My signature line goes here."
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It's simple, really, since there is currently nothing else available. Do it or Get Out.
The child has a right to an education, but should not be permitted to prevent others from getting one. If you have three students in a class of 30 who are disruptive, tolerating the behavior prevents the other 27 from achieving the primary purpose of the operation. Learning.
I had a nephew who in 7 years of public school had not learned that it was necessary to Sit Down and Shut Up while in class. The school called several times a week about this behavior. It took about two weeks, but my methods solved the problem where the accepted methods failed totally and completely.
He also learned from me, again where accepted methods had failed, that in order to write down the correct answers on a test, in addition to studying the material, it was also necessary to read the questions. Here is his exact statement after reviewing a test - " Huh. If Ida just read the questions, Ida got the right answers!" Spoken with a tone of utter astonishment.
He also learned that flipping the pages while just looking at the pictures does not constitute "reading the chapter." Also, that when a phrase contains BOLD PRINT, and in addition is HIGHLIGHTED IN COLOR, he should pay special attention to it.
I did more effective teaching in 6 weeks than the namby-pamby, rainbows and daffodils crowd was able to accomplish in 7 years. The boy did not become an A student but for the first time in several years no longer had to go to summer school, and ceased to be a disruptive element in the classroom.
At no time was any physical contact required. I will not tell you the language that I used, as you really, really won't like it. Fear was instilled, the issues were directly addressed, the problem was solved, much benefit was achieved for many. This is in contrast to the accepted methods which addressed NO issues, solved NO problems, and deprived many of classroom teacher time.
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It's simple, really, since there is currently nothing else available. Do it or Get Out.
The child has a right to an education, but should not be permitted to prevent others from getting one. If you have three students in a class of 30 who are disruptive, tolerating the behavior prevents the other 27 from achieving the primary purpose of the operation. Learning.
I had a nephew who in 7 years of public school had not learned that it was necessary to Sit Down and Shut Up while in class. The school called several times a week about this behavior. It took about two weeks, but my methods solved the problem where the accepted methods failed totally and completely.
He also learned from me, again where accepted methods had failed, that in order to write down the correct answers on a test, in addition to studying the material, it was also necessary to read the questions. Here is his exact statement after reviewing a test - " Huh. If Ida just read the questions, Ida got the right answers!" Spoken with a tone of utter astonishment.
He also learned that flipping the pages while just looking at the pictures does not constitute "reading the chapter." Also, that when a phrase contains BOLD PRINT, and in addition is HIGHLIGHTED IN COLOR, he should pay special attention to it.
I did more effective teaching in 6 weeks than the namby-pamby, rainbows and daffodils crowd was able to accomplish in 7 years. The boy did not become an A student but for the first time in several years no longer had to go to summer school, and ceased to be a disruptive element in the classroom.
At no time was any physical contact required. I will not tell you the language that I used, as you really, really won't like it. Fear was instilled, the issues were directly addressed, the problem was solved, much benefit was achieved for many. This is in contrast to the accepted methods which addressed NO issues, solved NO problems, and deprived many of classroom teacher time.
I agree 100% with you, but if you did that as a teacher you would find yourself without a job and on the 10 o'clock news.
Amazing how he turned around when someone cared at home
Last edited by ColumbusDawg; 03/24/11 01:08 PM.
#gmstrong
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You had it easy rogue. My mom was a teacher. I swear there were times she knew before I did that I was in trouble. Even when I was in different buildings from her.
I had an assistant football coach - geez - walk in to school on Monday morning: "Arch, got anything to tell me?" "No". Then he'd proceed to tell me what I did on Friday night, or Sat. night.
Bear crawls and gassers after practice quite often for me.
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You had it easy rogue. My mom was a teacher. I swear there were times she knew before I did that I was in trouble. Even when I was in different buildings from her.
I had an assistant football coach - geez - walk in to school on Monday morning: "Arch, got anything to tell me?" "No". Then he'd proceed to tell me what I did on Friday night, or Sat. night.
Bear crawls and gassers after practice quite often for me.
My dad always told me if I ever got paddled at school, it wouldn't come close to the one he would give me when I got home. I never wanted to find out.
Carrots and sticks in a dog eat dog world. Its how life works for everyone unless you are in school today. They're 17-18 years behind on learning some important things. I don't blame teachers. I blame parents and lawyers.
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CD -Thank you. You have a clear view as to what teachers are dealing with.
@ Nelson - What would your nephew have been like if you were not there to knock some sense into him?
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I know what my mom dealt with in elementary school. I can only imagine what some of her kids she had turned out like once they reached high school. While there are the bad aspects of teaching, there are also ones that keep you doing it. My mom has several of those stories as well. One girl she taught in 2nd grade mentioned her as the person who turned her life around in a speech she gave as the valedictorian of her high school. She saw how much my mom cared in trying to help her and actually let her; her home life was horrible and she became a great student with zero help from home. There just aren't that many kids who can do that. Unfortunately for every great story like that she probably has 50 ones about kids and parents who just don't care.
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Do yourself a favor and read some sales books by the authors I recommended. It will do you a world of good as far as managing your education presentation, and in reaching those who you do not reach through traditional means.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know but I take it you read into my statement but that is probably my fault. I went back and reread what I wrote. I never meant that my parents drank and were bad parents. They just didn't raise me exactly the way I'm raising my children.
I was just trying to say some parents put different values on things. Some parents t wouldn't have a problem if their children grew up well mannered and polite but grew up drinking and smoking cigarettes or whatnot. I even know people that have threw graduation parties for their children and provided the alcohol. If my children grow up having beer parties I would look at that as a failure on my part. Some would look at it as a success because their children are well mannered.
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I was just trying to say some parents put different values on things. Some parents t wouldn't have a problem if their children grew up well mannered and polite but grew up drinking and smoking cigarettes or whatnot.
As long as it doesn't negatively affect them being a productive member of society then I don't have a problem with it. Smoking I wouldn't care for as I would want them to live as long as they can to enjoy life to it's fullest. Drinking, within moderation, is fine. I have wine, beer, or a single malt almost every night. I smoke the occasional nice cigar as well. Doesn't make me a bad person or my parents bad people. After meeting several of my friends, ex-wifes, current girl friends family I know how lucky I was to have such wonderful parents.
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I even know people that have threw graduation parties for their children and provided the alcohol.
Now that is just plain stupid. And yes, I do know it happens and it truly amazes me.
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If my children grow up having beer parties I would look at that as a failure on my part.
Beer parties? I think I have one of those daily Seriously though, there is nothing wrong with your parenting if your kids have parties.
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Some would look at it as a success because their children are well mannered.
I'm not sure anyone lists that their kids have "beer parties" as being a success. Sheesh. You sure come across as a stick in the mud.
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No. I am a Christian instilling Christian values. I'm done. I do not wish do go into that again. People have a different idea of what that means. I know what it means to me. People think it's ok to drink and proclaim to be a christian. I don't. That is my opinion and I don't wish to discuss how I'm wrong and have the wrong idea of Christianity. I'm not the judge so I'm not judging. Just saying what I expect of my children. Have a good day everyone.
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I don't think you are wrong at all to not drink. I have many friends who do not drink for various reasons (religion included). It is just the way that you come across with an attitude of "I'm better than you because of my Christian beliefs". Maybe I am not understanding or taking your statements the wrong way - it is sometimes hard get a point across through a keyboard. I do think it is wrong to consider yourself, or anyone else for that matter, a failure as a parent should your children choose to partake in an alcoholic beverage on occasion. To associate that with bad parenting is quite a stretch to me.
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I wasn't insinuating that I thought you said your parents were drinking and smoking etc. I apologize if my comments construed that thought.
I was making a general statement based on your earlier comment about "if the children had a mother who stayed home", with the counter perspective that I would rather have a loving, caring mother who worked 16 hrs a day, than one who was home but was drunk or high all the time, which I know some of the latter type, and their kids are anything but well mannered, polite, respectful.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I can tell you exactly what he would be like, because after about 18 months here, he went back to his drunken slut of a mother, never finished high school, became a heroin addict, and might very well be dead now.
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This is just another example of why I would never want to be a teacher. You couldn't pay me enough to try to control an unruly enviroment like that. I feel sorry for the teacher that has to put up with that each day. I'm about as mild mannered as you will see, but it would be frustrating as hell, when you're putting your heart and soul into something, and you have kids & parents that could careless what you're trying to accomplish. Like hell on earth.
Don't forget half the country with their crosshairs on your compensation to boot 
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
Quote:
Quote:
This is just another example of why I would never want to be a teacher. You couldn't pay me enough to try to control an unruly enviroment like that. I feel sorry for the teacher that has to put up with that each day. I'm about as mild mannered as you will see, but it would be frustrating as hell, when you're putting your heart and soul into something, and you have kids & parents that could careless what you're trying to accomplish. Like hell on earth.
Don't forget half the country with their crosshairs on your compensation to boot
I agree with Trella.
For you, what about the half of the country that has had the crosshairs, as you put it, on them? Honestly, what about the half of the population that doesn't pay income tax?
When is enough enough?
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
Going after teachers with pitchforks is the solution to the budget being the way it is because of half of the people in the country not paying taxes? I personally don't think it is.
I think we need to go after social security, medicare/medicaid, other entitlement programs, and the military budget rather than teachers, planned parenthood, and other distractions people are falling for right now.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This is just another example of why I would never want to be a teacher. You couldn't pay me enough to try to control an unruly enviroment like that. I feel sorry for the teacher that has to put up with that each day. I'm about as mild mannered as you will see, but it would be frustrating as hell, when you're putting your heart and soul into something, and you have kids & parents that could careless what you're trying to accomplish. Like hell on earth.
Don't forget half the country with their crosshairs on your compensation to boot
I agree with Trella.
For you, what about the half of the country that has had the crosshairs, as you put it, on them? Honestly, what about the half of the population that doesn't pay income tax?
When is enough enough?
I will never understand how teachers became the focus.
We've got two and a half unnecessary wars going on, we just dropped about eight or nine figures worth of bombs on a country that has nothing to do with us, we've got 700 military bases in around 130 countries, we've given trillions in subsidies to just about every bank, oil company, pharm company, insurance company, energy company and car manufacturer, we drop tons of foreign aid on despotic regimes, we've taken to inventing unsustainable jobs just to claim that there's jobs, etc., etc. etc.
And Wisconsin itself ... I mean, just for starters, the state still has six or seven more years of taxing it's citizens for the $300 million it took to build the Brewers stadium, which is privately owned.
And teachers is the way to start? What's next? Cops and firemen?
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,428 |
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I don't think you are wrong at all to not drink. I have many friends who do not drink for various reasons (religion included). It is just the way that you come across with an attitude of "I'm better than you because of my Christian beliefs". Maybe I am not understanding or taking your statements the wrong way - it is sometimes hard get a point across through a keyboard. I do think it is wrong to consider yourself, or anyone else for that matter, a failure as a parent should your children choose to partake in an alcoholic beverage on occasion. To associate that with bad parenting is quite a stretch to me.
No. I'm just talking about my family and my belief. Never meant to come across as better but I do realize that I do come across that way. SORRY
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
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I do think it is wrong to consider yourself, or anyone else for that matter, a failure as a parent should your children choose to partake in an alcoholic beverage on occasion. To associate that with bad parenting is quite a stretch to me.
I had a college professor (psy) that once said "I never trust anyone who refuses to indulge in a good alcoholic beverage from time to time"
I can tell you from experience that the prohibitionists are craaaazy
 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum A teaching experience I had today
(example of today's students)
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