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I just was looking over info and saw this pretty interesting. I think it relates to just one more big thing contributing to big government. We have to pay to keep criminals away from us, secured, fed, clothed, and then also pay the administration and guards to watch them.

Im not directing it at anyone, but after a few of the recent conversations I have seen on the board / been a part of ... this is baffling. These people really are leaches on society... and while I don't think we can just get rid of them ... maybe they should be the ones doing all of the worst forms of work for free. They should at least have to earn their own cost to be incarcerated IMO.

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More people in the United States are being arrested and incarcerated even though crime has dropped, with the consequences of these policies being felt most by low-income communities, according to a new report by the Justice Policy Institute (JPI).
"With the focus this fall on effective leadership, it's time for our elected officials to realize that creating safe, healthy communities is a better investment in our country's future than more prison beds," stated Tracy Velázquez, executive director of JPI. "Low-income communities and people of color are bearing the brunt of this recession, as well as of our policies that have led to mass incarceration. By shifting our priorities, we can reduce these disproportionate impacts and make a real difference, especially for our country's children and families."

Money Well Spent: How positive social investments will reduce incarceration rates, improve public safety, and promote the well-being of communities, examines the relationship between poverty and involvement in the justice system. Using the District of Columbia as a case study to illustrate national concerns, the report focuses on the nexus of public safety and poverty: While poverty doesn't cause crime, more low-income people end up in prison or jail. And while spending on education, treatment, and other services that help people improve their well-being have been shown to be a more effective public safety strategy than locking people up, between 2005 and 2009 state spending on corrections grew faster than any other category, including education, Medicaid and public assistance such as TANF.

"It's a question of where we choose to spend our money," said Velázquez. "Until we quit funneling tax dollars into prisons and policing practices that sweep large numbers of people into the system - many of whom pose little risk to public safety - we should not be surprised to see incarceration rates continue to climb. What this report shows is that we could better spend our money on things like education, treatment, and jobs, especially for people in low-income communities that are really struggling right now."

The report also notes that as prison populations have grown, so too have racial disparities in the justice system; this is especially evident in arrest and incarceration patterns for drug offenses. Despite comparable usage of illicit drugs, in 2008 African Americans, who make up 12.2 percent of the general population, comprised 44 percent of those incarcerated for drug offenses. The report notes that disproportionate enforcement of drug laws in communities of color destabilizes families and communities and decreases the likelihood of positive outcomes for children and other family members left behind.

"Without adequate funding for social services, it is less likely that people will be able to succeed and avoid contact with the justice system," noted Sarah Lyons, National Emerson Hunger Fellow and primary author of the report. "Investments in housing, education, mental health services, and job training have been shown to improve public safety, reduce the risk of involvement with the justice system and promote the well-being of communities. Providing services and treatment options now will improve public safety, improve individual life outcomes, and help build strong, healthier communities. We can only hope that policymakers will base their decisions on research and evidence and start spending taxpayer dollars wisely."

The Sacramento Bee reported last year that California spends five times as much on its prisons as it does on schools.

"'Corrections,' an ironic misnomer, has jumped from less than $5 billion a year to more than $10 billion in the last decade, over twice as fast as school spending, the biggest budget item," Dan Walters wrote. "It now costs about $45,000 a year to feed, clothe and medicate each of the state's 170,000-plus inmates, or roughly five times what taxpayers spend on a typical public school student. And that doesn't count what it costs to supervise tens of thousands of parolees."

Other key findings from the JPI report include:

• Laws criminalizing homelessness only serve to reinforce the cycles of poverty and homelessness. About 16 percent of incarcerated people experienced homelessness prior to arrest, and most of these people are significantly more likely to have both a mental illness and a substance addiction, which frequently go untreated in the community.

• States with higher high school graduation rates and college enrollment have lower crime rates than states with lower educational attainment levels.

• The stress of living in poverty is a risk factor for experiencing mental health problems, and many people who want treatment can't afford it. Over half of people in prisons and jails report mental illness of some kind, compared to 25 percent of the general population. Investing in appropriate mental health and substance abuse treatment can improve public safety and reduce criminal justice involvement.

• Investments in job training and employment have been associated with heightened public safety. Youth who are employed are more likely to avoid justice involvement. In addition, people who are incarcerated are more likely to report having had extended periods of unemployment and lower wages than people in the general population.

By shifting priorities, fewer people will end up in the justice system - especially expensive "deep end" institutions like prisons and juvenile correctional facilities - reducing the future drain on state budgets and allowing states to focus on services and systems that benefit citizens. JPI's recommendations in the report include:

• Rather than expending police resources on quality of life offenses that are often directed at low-income communities and people who are homeless, focus law enforcement efforts on the most serious offenses. Reducing the number of arrests and subsequent detentions of people for low-level and quality of life offenses is a better use of public resources intended to maintain public safety.

• Address practices that create racial and income disparities in arrest and incarceration. States and localities should evaluate policies that target people of color and those of lower-income despite similar offense rates across racial and socioeconomic lines.

• Increase access and funding for affordable and supportive housing. Stable, affordable housing is key to education, employment and access to other social programs and services and can increase quality of life for people struggling with homelessness, including children and youth, who are particularly affected by lack of housing.

• Improve access to quality education for all children and invest in special education services for children who need it. All youth, regardless of race or income-level should get a quality education. As youth with special education needs may be more likely to end up in the justice system, providing early education specifically tailored to these children can help improve graduation rates and the likelihood of success later in life.

• Invest in afterschool and recreational programs for youth. After­school activities, mentoring programs, and employment in­crease a youth's academic, social, and emotional well-being and reduce the risk of involvement in illegal behaviors.

• Improve systems of community-based mental health and substance abuse treatment. Providing treatment to people before they come into contact with the justice system can help increase public safety, improve the lives of individuals with mental health or substance abuse problems, and save money in the long run. Treatment based in the community is both more effective and more cost-effective than treatment in the justice system. Additionally, the majority of youth in the juvenile justice system either have a mental health problem or have experienced trauma. Focusing efforts on proper mental health care for youth can reduce the propensity for future justice system involvement.

• Increase employment opportunities for those who most need them. Access to job training for people in lower-income communities can open doors to more jobs and careers, leading to better life outcomes and less justice-involvement. Youth employment programs encourage youth and teach responsibility and other marketable skills they need to be competitive in the job market. And as having a job is one of the most important keys to success after release from prison, removing legal barriers and creating incentives for employers to hire formerly incarcerated people can reap both individual and social benefits.

The study's findings are particularly alarming for communities of color where the growth of the prison-industrial complex has led to the erosion of hard-fought constitutional rights earned by Blacks during the Historic Civil Rights Movement.

In an article titled "Race, Prison and Poverty," Paul Street writes, "Researchers and advocates tracking the impact of mass incarceration find a number of devastating consequences in high-poverty Black communities. The most well known form of this so-called 'collateral damage in the war on drugs' is the widespread political disenfranchisement of felons and ex-felons. Ten states deny voting rights for life to ex-felons. According to the Sentencing Project, 46 states prohibit inmates from voting while serving a felony sentence, 32 states deny the vote to felons on parole, and 29 states disenfranchise felony probationers. Thanks to these rules, 13 percent of all Black men in the U.S. have lost their electoral rights- "a bitter aftermath,' notes British sociologist David Ladipo, 'to the expansion of voting rights secured, at such cost, by the freedom marches of the fifties and sixties.'"

"America's expanding prison, probation, and parole populations are recruited especially from what leading slavery reparations advocate Randall Robinson calls 'the millions of African Americans bottom-mired in urban hells by the savage time-release social debilitations of American slavery,'" Street continues. "The ultimate solutions lay, perhaps, beyond the parameters of the existing politic-economic order.

"Nothing can excuse policymakers and activists from the responsibility to end racist criminal justice practices that are significantly exacerbating the difficulties faced by the nation's most truly and intractably disadvantaged," he concludes. "More then merely a symptom of the tangled mess of problems that create, sustain, and deepen Ameri­ca's savage patterns of class and race inequality, mass incarceration has become a central part of the mess. For these and other reasons, it will be an especially worthy target for creative, democratic protest and policy formation in the new millennium."





http://www.louisianaweekly.com/news.php?viewStory=3315


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from what someone in the system over here told me, still cheaper to keep em then to execute them.

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I knew it was bad but I didn't realize it was that bad. I'm open for some creative solutions... $45K a year each?


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Prisons have always been a sour subject for many officials.

Personally I think only violent offenders should be incarcerated, and the non-violent(drugs, stealing, fraud, etc) put on work ranches/farms where they go out and work 8hr days cleaning roadways, mowing lawns, caring for our city/county/state parks, and then are released after time served (which could and should be much less than they would be incarcerated for).

It would provide them punishment without the adverse affects of being locked up for years.


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Non violent offenders should be put to work during their sentences earning their keep and repaying the community by doing clean up work .... maintenance ....... lawn and tree work ...... road repair ..... and hundreds of other physical labor type jobs.

Unfortunately ...... the unions will never let it happen .... and prevailing wage laws would force convicted laborers to be paid prevailing wages.

Ridiculous.

Welfare recipients should work for their benefits too .... but the same obstacles get in the way there too.


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Quote:

Dan Walters wrote. "It now costs about $45,000 a year to feed, clothe and medicate each of the state's 170,000-plus inmates, or roughly five times what taxpayers spend on a typical public school student. And that doesn't count what it costs to supervise tens of thousands of parolees."





so, if we just give them $45K/year to go spend on local economies rather than locking them up, then we have our economic stimulus plan. brilliant!

(obviously joking here)


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Well Im not suggesting killing them ... but if we have to take care of them, they should at least earn their keep. Either make them work hard labor or open certain plants inside the prisons or whatever ... something that they can't harm others or anything ... but actually make them pay their debt to society and not just get shuffled under the rug.


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Then what if they refuse to work? Let them starve to death? ACLU would be all over that.

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And we keep passing more laws and ordinances putting more people into prisons........and we have turned the courts into a system where you are basically guilty until proven innocent. This contributes to the problem.

This day in age, if you are charged then the burden is on you to prove your innocence. When initially, it was intended that the burden was on the state to prove your guilt beyond a "reasonable doubt," but that means very little anymore.

Look at speeding tickets----all the state needs is the testimony of an officer of the law and Guilty. Where is the hard proof--there is none. Only what he said and what you say. The court sides with the officer. And part of that is b/c the fine you pay for the ticket--it pays the officers salary---and the judges. So much for an impartial trial.

Its a travesty---it really is....but the problem is---everyone is made to believe that the courts need a super high conviction rate---forget innocent or guilty. Just make sure we put someone into the system. And the public sees justice as convictions.

And this brilliant system has a bevy of leaches getting dough off of peoples lives. Prosecutors, judges, lawyers, probation officers, prison guards, a multitude of psychological and behavioral professional, bailiffs, court reporters, insurance companies. The guys who build the prisons and jails. They are all profiting off of this system.

And the people have been mislead to give the state the benefit of the doubt in just about every case. Which is not how it was supposed to be.

Yea---I have serious beef with the "justice" system and the laws of the land. And there are several laws that I do not believe are just so I don't always obey them. And I will not.

Another problem is the stigma we attach to those who have committed a crime---especially felonies---this generations scarlet letter. Once convicted--good luck getting on with the rest of your life.

My plan to get the prison populations under control---first, change drug policy---the world is beginning to see the monumental failure that the drugs war has been and is beginning to shift towards decriminalization. The big hurdle on the global scale is US policy. While many countries are moving away from criminal penalties for simple possession and even cultivation---the Unite States remains mired in its archaic policy.

Second phase---stop creating more laws and regulations. I get it smoking is bad for you, drugs are bad for yo---so discouraging use is a great idea. But once you start mandating that adults can't do hese things---them you cross the line.

Yes, you are safer when you wear a seatbelt---so go ahead and promote wearing a seatbelt as the responsible thing to do---but you should not create a law making it mandatory and attach a penalty for not doing it---that is when this country steps over the line.

I can liken this idea to having your cake and eating it too. Sure, encourage people to behave a certain way---but don't penalize them for making their own decisions.

Obviously, the big crimes should always be criminal. Murder, rape, assault, robbery, molestation--these are problems that demand penalty. Beyond that scope we have overstepped the bounds that this great countries fore-fathers had envisions.

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Well in the case of speeding, it is a civil offence, not a criminal offense, so they are not governed by the same concept as innocent until proven guilty, or a jury of your peers.


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My plan to get the prison populations under control---first, change drug policy---the world is beginning to see the monumental failure that the drugs war has been and is beginning to shift towards decriminalization. The big hurdle on the global scale is US policy. While many countries are moving away from criminal penalties for simple possession and even cultivation---the Unite States remains mired in its archaic policy.

Second phase---stop creating more laws and regulations. I get it smoking is bad for you, drugs are bad for yo---so discouraging use is a great idea. But once you start mandating that adults can't do hese things---them you cross the line.





Hell, then you tax it and THERE'S your economic stimulus....

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Yeah ... and noone who is upset about the hi tax (or should I call it the "high" tax) will remember why they were so mad in the first place ...


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Quote:

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My plan to get the prison populations under control---first, change drug policy---the world is beginning to see the monumental failure that the drugs war has been and is beginning to shift towards decriminalization. The big hurdle on the global scale is US policy. While many countries are moving away from criminal penalties for simple possession and even cultivation---the Unite States remains mired in its archaic policy.

Second phase---stop creating more laws and regulations. I get it smoking is bad for you, drugs are bad for yo---so discouraging use is a great idea. But once you start mandating that adults can't do hese things---them you cross the line.





Hell, then you tax it and THERE'S your economic stimulus....




We will eventually get to that point....but slowly. Cali will legalize pot within a few years and then a few other states will follow. The Feds will sit back and watch to see if they can control the increase in DUI's and add up the tax benefits.


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Quote:

Personally I think only violent offenders should be incarcerated, and the non-violent(drugs, stealing, fraud, etc) put on work ranches/farms where they go out and work 8hr days cleaning roadways, mowing lawns, caring for our city/county/state parks, and then are released after time served (which could and should be much less than they would be incarcerated for).




Norway does something very similar to this. It's worked out very well for them. Apparently, there are relatively to no repeat offenders. There is a short Micheal Moore documentary on it. It's an interesting idea.

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8 Hours? Heck, I'd make sure it was HARD labor. Not unfair mind you ... not like sending them to the mines in the earlier parts of our country or have them in a desolate quarry breaking stones ... but make them have a 10 or 12 hour shift.

Give them a deterrent that actually .. what's the word... oh right ... deters them from ever wanting to get caught again. I assume that there really would be a way that the state could contract out their services to eventually make a profit off of these workers ... but then you know that judges might just put more people into prison for cheap government labor. So... let's just say it could be designed that they are stuck in there until they "pay off their debts."


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Mahoning County gets $80/day for housing prisoners sent from outside sources. (city, state, federal, etc) I don't see how they could do that if it was going to cost them $45k/year to do so.

Also, the City of Youngstown is balking at paying that much.

Here's a link to some of the stuff that the Mahoning County prison has been going through.

http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/mar/16/mahoning-county-sheriff8217s-department-/


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8 Hours? Heck, I'd make sure it was HARD labor. Not unfair mind you ... not like sending them to the mines in the earlier parts of our country or have them in a desolate quarry breaking stones ... but make them have a 10 or 12 hour shift.



And, as has already been asked, what if they refuse? Do you beat them? Against the law.

Don't let them out of jail? Against the law.

The other side of the coin is if you place these inmates into jobs, then there are jobs taken away from those that aren't on the federal or state dime as a prisoner. And if this won't happen in your scenario please tell me how. (we're leaving today for the weekend but I will definitely come back to this thread for your response)

Haven't we had this conversation before??? It's easy to come up with solutions like this when they are not legal or realistic......

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How about this ...... those who are in for sentences of 10 years or less work their 40 hour week while they are in prison. They keep 1/4 of their wages to buy things they want while in prison (candy bars, tv and movie privledges, and other stuff like that) and 1/4 goes into a "release fund". The other half goes to help pay for their incarceration.

The money in their "release fund" goes to the inmate when they are released from prison to help them get set up in a new, and hopefully crime free life.

A guy in for 10 years could come out with enough money to help him stay out of crime .... money that he would have earned ..... and money that he could use to set himself up with housing and such.

The percentages could be adjusted as costs require ..... and they could earn up to 10 hours of work by satisfactorily completing school work while in prison. It wouldn't be a 1-1 tradeoff ... maybe 15 hours of school gets you out of 10 hours of hard work .... but a percentage of inmates would probably take advantage of such an opportunity. It would mean that an inmate could work 30, and get paid for 40 hours .... and maybe even get extra time off for excellent grades.

I could also see a plan where the inmate gets 1/2 of their earned money upon release, and then additional checks for and additional 1/4 for the next 2 years ..... as long as they stay out of trouble. If they return to prison, they lose everything they have not yet received.

I would think that a major problem for most inmates is that they have trouble finding work when they leave prison, so they return to crime. They want and need money ..... so they do what they know. If they have a nest egg that could tide them over for 6 months upon release ... get them an apartment ... put food on the table ..... that could help them have the time to find work. The further incentive of not losing money they have earned could help keep them clean.

If a released inmate returns to prison, then he loses everything he had earned.

It's not a perfect solution, and it wouldn't work for everyone, but I bet that it could put a percentage of inmates on the path to a crime free future upon release.

Those who do not wish to participate in the program do not get privledges. They get their meals, and limited exercise time, but that's about it. They will have access to the library and such, but no special privledges. No TV ..... no movies .... nothing. If you don't participate in your own rehabilitation, you get nothing in return.

Obviously this program would not work for those on death row, or those with life sentences ..... but it could be modified to provide some sort of estate to their heirs when they die. Their work would not have as much benefit for them .... but it could benefit those they hurt the most ..... their own loved ones.

Again, not all such inmates would choose to participate .... and those that don't get very limited privledges.

I just think that a program like this could get inmates in the habit of working, give them an incentive to work while they are in prison, and increase their odds of making good once they get out.

As far as costing other people their jobs ..... why? There must be plenty of things that inmates could produce that we currently import, or services they could perform that would not put someone else out of a job. I bet if we looked hard enough we could find really productive work for them, which would benefit society .... just as we could for welfare recipients. Too many people say "we can't", when there are always ways that we can .. if we want to .... and if it is important enough.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

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It sounds good, but I doubt it would work.

As said.....most inmates aren't going to work. Not the way suggested on here.


Sure, many hold some "job" at the prison, or go out to pick up trash while doing their 90 at the county lock-up, but it is more to break the monotony more than anything else. Very few actually work, and in many cases it is just a few days a week. A prison with 2000 inmates doesn't have 2000 jobs that can be filled 5-6 days a week.

Just a rant:


Rehabilitation is internal. The fact is most people don't get in to trouble, but anybody can.....you, I, the next person. If the fact of getting in to trouble and serving some sort of sanction...be it prison time to a few hours of community service isn't enough to wake you up, then nothing the state can do will do the job.

If you see people around the 2nd time, then the chances are good they just don't care and are going to continue to follow the path well in to adulthood.

We can point fingers at all sorts of things and look for the reasons why, but the conclusion I have arrived at is they just don't care.....and in my experience, there is no way to make someone care until they decide to do so.


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I wonder why they would work at all?

Slave Labor - alive and well in IL. OK.-Body armor and Missiles by UNICORby Bob Sloan

Oh boy, another week and another series of articles related to prison labor and the never-ending pursuit of profits from, and exploitation of prisoners.

First a new story published yesterday from out of Illinois. Unbelievable but expected in this period of every state trying to make a little money anyway they can off of inmates. Illinois inmate Kensley Hawkins was sentenced in 1982 for murder and assaulting two police officers, receiving 60 years. Once in prison Hawkins went to work for the prison industry. He has worked steadily for them since 1982 - 29 straight years. The industry program pays Hawkins a whopping $2.00 per day for work making wood furniture, plus occasional small commissions on the products he makes and the industry sells. Hawkins is scheduled for parole in 2028. The prison industry program allows the state to take up to 3% of Hawkins' wages to go toward paying for his incarceration - which they have taken over the entire period he's worked in the prison industry program.

Over the years Hawkins has done just what corrections authorities want inmates to do; save some of their earning to go toward supporting them upon release. We've all heard stories about inmates getting out of prison with no money, family or way to make a living or feed themselves and wind up back in prison in months.

In inmate Hawkins' case he socked away as much money as he could for the day he would eventually be released. To date his savings add up to $11,000.00 because instead of buying snacks, books or other items available at the canteen, Hawkins put most of his money into the savings account for his release- as prison authorities suggested.

Now the state is going after Hawkins' savings account, suing him under state law that allows Illinois to charge prisoners for their incarceration costs. They sued him for more than $455,000 the state spent to house him from July 1, 1983, to March 17, 2005, or an average of about $57 a day! The state's position is that though the prison industry laws allow the state to take a percentage of an inmate's wages to offset some of the costs of incarceration, they are not precluded from going after more if there is a source available.

A lower state appellate court ruled in favor of the Department of Corrections, awarding them a judgment of the $455,000.00, but did not allow them to seize Hawkins' money because both sides have appealed the case to the Illinois Supreme Court. The ironic part of this story is that the state says they will go after incarceration costs from current or former inmates. The threshold that determines if they sue or not is $10,000.00. If Hawkins had of spent his money on zoo-zoos, wham-whams and sweetie-golds at the prison canteen over the past three decades, the state wouldn't have proceeded to go after his savings.

This story brings up important issues across the full spectrum of incarceration, prison industries and slave labor. First it raises the issue of whether or not making an inmate work for pennies per hour is right or qualifies as slave labor. Secondly where there is a provision for paying an inmate those pennies per hour and taking a portion for the costs of incarceration, shouldn't the amount authorized and taken be all that is required? Of course, where politicians are concerned, there are always "buts" attached to any legislation, and where the politicians are conservatives and inmate labor, prison industries and money are involved lawmakers are willing to change the laws to benefit the state - always.

A system whereby an inmate can be worked for years and if he/she saves money to assist them upon release, is an ideal situation that takes the pressure of reentry program costs and the inmate as well. For years legislators and prison authorities have implemented programs, such as the PIE Program that urges inmates working in prison industries to save money for their release. Now that an inmate has done just that, the state authorities want to take it all to pay for their incarcerating that inmate and leave him with no money to assist in transitioning back to his community. The fact that the inmate is now 60 years old and has another 17 years to parole may be one of the factors looked at by the state. If they believe he's unlikely to live that long or will not need that much money if/when he is paroled - due to his age - maybe they see the money in his account as something he will have little use for. I disagree, however. This man has been in prison so long that when he does get out he won't be young enough to work, he won't qualify for Social Security, Medicare or many other social programs. I don't know if you see it or not, but I see the revolving door of imprisonment just waiting for inmate Hawkins and many more in Illinois and elsewhere.

Over the past months I have written extensively about the federal PIE Program that most state prison industries participate in (IL. is not a participant) that allows the prison industries to deduct room and board costs from the inmate's wages to reimburse society for the costs of incarceration. I identified Florida and Minnesota as two of the states that actively take these allowed deductions and keep the money for themselves to pay for their work programs - in effect using as much as 40% of the money earned by inmates to fund the industry operations.

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Work hard, serve your time, save the small amount of money they give you so you have something to start with when you get out.. and they take it from you... great system.


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That's just wrong. When you consider the number of inmates who don't make an attempt to save for their release and we cover their entire costs, they should not be able to take this mans savings just because he did what he should be doing and saved.


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Geez that's a lotta money to spend on criminals..


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Hang on Shep, I never pretend to have all the answers, but I'll try!

Give them a large difference to choose between. They can go to prison and sit there for maybe 5 years, or they can do maybe 10 weeks of manual labor at 5 days per week, 10 hours and that right there puts in 500 man hours towards keeping our budget lower and having them pay things off. Still not sure what they would do ... maybe building bridges and infrastructure, but for a job that could save us $20.00 per hour to have workers come in and do it ... at those 500 hours you just saved $10k, plus the amount that it would have caused them to rot.

Put incentives into it that actually allow individuals to have their record wiped (if it was a minor incident) perhaps if they complete training and seek out some sort of support (attending a rehab group, or a driver education class or whatever actually is related to their crime), or at least have it show that they did their time.

How do you supervise them? It could either be a job for the military (if we ever get them back home) or send it out to third party certified contractors. Create a specific class that trains individuals in how to supervise convicts? It would be part police officer, part management. I could see it developing into a pretty big industry for colleges and technical institutes to train and such as well.

As far as taking away the jobs goes. This would have to be done carefully. You could fill different already existing federal jobs with these individuals, but it might have to depend on what their education or capabilities are. You could actually approach the idea from multiple ways truthfully. Make them work as janitorial staff for government buildings? Have them build a bridge? Put them to work on the highways? Put them into the DMV office?

I know I'm getting a little off topic (or starting new ones perhaps), but you could eliminate a lot of government inefficiency by replacing current sectors or at least parts of them with with people that don't get paid.

As far as the legal is concerned, it's all legal because you aren't forcing them or keeping forever nor are you beating them. Realistic? Absolutely. It would just come down to how it would be implemented at the beginning and then managed.


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Make everything a pay to play proposition.

TV ... pay for it.

Movies ... pay for it.

Snacks .... pay for it.

Better choice of food .... pay for it.

Telephone privledges .... pay for it.

And so on.

Make it so they can only pay for these things with money earned at the prison.

If they don't want to work, they can rot.


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Put them to work painting, cleaning parks/roadways, Habitat for Humanity. Or Picking tomatoes, mowing lawns, cleaning hotel rooms, oops sorry those would take jobs from the illegal immigrants.

You know all those cigarette butts on the curbside? They could clean those up. Pothole filling duty, cleaning the public park restrooms. I'm sure we can come up with work.


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I have feared for a long time that we will eventually turn the bulk of the prison system over to the private sector.

We've seen this sort of thing trend upwards as the years have gone by, and it's a dangerous thing.

Given the right government contract/subsidy, locking people up can be a lucrative industry. And that's when you start sending people away at the drop of a hat.


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Well that's what I started to fear as I was writing some of the things I have posted yesterday / earlier today. Especially because there have been proposals (or at least suggestions) even in Ohio to sell off and privatize the prisons.


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I was thinking, as bad as some criminals are, I'd think that most are capable of being controlled.

So if we look at the inmates as a resource, the question becomes, how do we best use them.

Instead of looking at them as a problem, let's look at them as assets that we can use to achieve a goal.

Pick a goal. Any goal, find a way to use these prisoners to get the end result you want.

Such as cleaning up our highways or Parks clean up. I'm not in a creative thinking mind set today, but I bet you all can come up with a list of things these people can do.


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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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