Wonder if the users will face any charges? I never really got into the whole online gambling thing .... but then again, I never really got into the "in person" gambling thing either. lol
Online poker sites shut down and charged with fraud in US crackdown The founders of three of the world’s largest poker websites have been charged with fraud and may be ordered to repay $3bn (£1.8bn) of “illegal” gambling profits.
US investigators said the websites, two of which are registered in the UK, had “concocted an elaborate criminal fraud” to trick and bribe banks into “massive money laundering and bank fraud”.
The founders of Full Tilt Poker, PokerStars and Absolute Poker could face up to 20 years in jail if found guilty of breaching US anti-gambling and money laundering laws.
The US Department of Justice (DoJ) seized the companies’ bank accounts and took control of their US websites, which now display an FBI warning about the illegality of online gambling. It is against the law for US citizens to gamble online, but many Americans have continued to bet via foreign websites operating illegally.
Analysts said the DoJ probe was “great news” for British gambling companies that have not sought to circumvent US laws because authorities are likely to “reward” them if and when regulated online gambling is introduced in the US.
Warwick Bartlett, chief executive of Global Betting and Gaming Consultants, said: “The likes of Bwin.Party, Betfair, Ladbrokes and William Hill, which have not illegally taken bets in the US, are more likely to win licences there.”
British poker sites are also expected to see a return of big-spending European poker players, known as whales, who had been attracted to Full Tilt, PokerStars and Absolute because it gave them the chance to play against America’s most famous players. “Now that the big American whales won’t be there, Full Tilt and the others have lost one of the key attractions,” said a gambling industry source.
Online poker chat rooms suggest European players are already withdrawing funds from the affected sites. British websites expect to experience a big uplift in players tonight, traditionally the biggest night of the week for online poker. Preet Bharara, a US attorney, said: “These defendants are alleged to have concocted an elaborate criminal fraud scheme, alternately tricking some US banks and effectively bribing others to assure the continued flow of billions in illegal gambling profits.
“Moreover, as we allege, in their zeal to circumvent the gambling laws, the defendants also engaged in money laundering and bank fraud.”
The DoJ alleges that the companies and 11 men charged in connection with the crime, tricked, lied and colluded with banks to transfer the stakes and proceeds of gambling.
“These defendants, knowing that their business with US customers and US banks was illegal, tried to stake the deck,” said Janice Fedarcyk, the head of the FBI’s New York office.
Raymond Bitar, chief executive of Full Tilt, said yesterday he was “surprised and disappointed” by the decision to bring the charges and said he looked forward to his “exoneration”. The other companies did not comment.
The other defendants include Isai Scheinberg, the 64-year-old founder of PokerStars; Paul Tate, a PokerStars employee; Nelson Burtnick, of Full Tilt Poker and Scott Tom and Brent Beckley of Absolute Poker.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I could play poker with the best of them, and always thought online poker was rigged. I've cashed in Vegas, New Orleans, Biloxi, Tampa, Mountaineer, Rivers, and Indiana, but couldn't make a profit one time online. I always got the sense that hands were juiced, and I was playing against a computer. I would see stuff on there the few times I played, that I hardly seen in live action at a casino. I know this story is a whole different matter, but I never liked them sites.
Isn't Lebron shown in a commercial or music video playing at PokerStars? I say we throw him in prison for 7 to 10 years.
I know what you're saying Trella about being rigged. I only play at a free site, and I'm constantly seeing crazy hands. Things like straights getting topped by full houses on the final card. Guys losing with pocket queens to guys with pocket kings AND pocket aces. Guys getting three-of-a-kind on the flop, another getting a straight on the turn, and a flush coming up for a third on the river. Sure it happens ... but I see it all the time. It's like they want people to go all in, and then get screwed on the next card.
yea the bigger pots equals more money they make. I've played thousands of hands at a live table, and only hit 1 straight flush. Yet, the few times I've played online I hit one. It's not like I was playing 10 hrs online, maybe 2-3 max. I once played 20 hrs straight in Tampa, and didn't see anything like I seen online. I just didn't feel right risking money on something I can't determine is legit. That's why I stopped.
Yeah, I tried to go onto Pokerstars tonight and got a message about this.
Sucks. I enjoy playing on-line as there isn't a casino close enough to play as often as I would like. I also have my son every other week and I can't really take an 8 year old to the casino either . I really wish they would just legalize these sites in the US where more control could be had over them. I know it will never happen, but of all the things to crack down on this is what they choose? Oh well, figured it would one day come to an end......
At least I don't have a ton of money on the site (little more than $500) and most of that I've won.
I don't gamble, but one of my friends has been very successful playing online poker. So much so that it's his day job that he quit school for and he paid straight cash for a really nice house. Literally has made millions doing it.
He better hope that the Feds don't come after him ... because he broke the law, and could go to prison if they choose to prosecute. (as well as losing all of the stuff he bought with his illegal winnings)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I could play poker with the best of them, and always thought online poker was rigged. I've cashed in Vegas, New Orleans, Biloxi, Tampa, Mountaineer, Rivers, and Indiana, but couldn't make a profit one time online. I always got the sense that hands were juiced, and I was playing against a computer. I would see stuff on there the few times I played, that I hardly seen in live action at a casino. I know this story is a whole different matter, but I never liked them sites.
I agree.
I go to Vegas pretty often, and way more often when I was younger, not to mention some of the other places you mentioned.
A big part of Poker his how you hold yourself.
You just can't try to read that on the net.
I agree with you....I always felt one of the players you were playing against was a "bot" who knew what cards the other players held.
That makes folding or raising a bit easier.
Lose a few rinky dink pots, then hammer you when some serious money was involved.
I am divided on if Mr. "Bot" got better cards when it counted......you know....all of a sudden hit that inside straight after a raise on someone with three Kings
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I usually play the cash tourney tables - 9 or 18 player. The site just takes a part of the buying. Like for a $100 buy-in they get $9, 100+9. I also play the bounty tournaments a lot -like a $100 buy-in, plus $25 bounty, plus $9 to the site.
He better hope that the Feds don't come after him ... because he broke the law, and could go to prison if they choose to prosecute. (as well as losing all of the stuff he bought with his illegal winnings)
No he didn't. Online poker has never been illegal for the players. It is illegal to run a gambling site in the United States, so the sites are foreign run. For the players, there has never been fears of illegality.
Well, we'll see what happens. I will say that they rarely prosecute the players, usually settling for those running the house when it comes to gambling.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I would guess if they would go after players it would under the guise of money laundering. If you were a small time player probably no worries. If you were someone like Ammo's friend who allegedly won millions then I would be finding a lawyer, especially considering that those websites were based in the UK and the U.S. imposes controls on the movement of currency across its borders, requiring individuals to report the transportation of cash in excess of $10,000 on a form called Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments. Depending on how board you view a border money moving from a UK based website to an individual in America could be viewed as a border crossing. Then you have to consider what taxes? Did he claim a million dollars? I am willing to bet some money he didn't claim all the money he made through that website which means he owes the IRS some money, back taxes, fines...etc.
Seriously Ammo if you were his friend I would be less worried about finding him a new gaming site and more interested in finding him a lawyer. Not trying to proclaim the sky is falling or anything but in these situations its best to be prepared. As they hope for the best prepare for the worst.
Quote: I would guess if they would go after players it would under the guise of money laundering. If you were a small time player probably no worries. If you were someone like Ammo's friend who allegedly won millions then I would be finding a lawyer, especially considering that those websites were based in the UK and the U.S. imposes controls on the movement of currency across its borders, requiring individuals to report the transportation of cash in excess of $10,000 on a form called Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments.
Also you have to consider what taxes did ammo's friend pay? Did he claim a million dollars? I am willing to bet some money he didn't claim all the money he made through that website which means he owes the IRS some money, back taxes, fines...etc
Seriously Ammo if you were his friend I would be less worried about finding him a new gaming site and more interested in finding him a lawyer.
Call me crazy, but I have a tough time believing ammo's friend made "literally millions" in on line poker.
However, since ammo said it, we'll have to believe it. But, I bet ammo will soon tell us his friend paid all applicable federal income taxes, state taxes, and city taxes on the "literally millions" his friend has made.
I was thinking the same thing. Some of the finest poker players of all time have only won $8-10 million. . To get a big pay out, you have to win a large tournament, like the ones they have at the world series in Vegas. You definitely won't earn millions on the net playing cash games.
It's very possible. Aside from the tournaments, you can play from a small heads up game to a set game with 40 some players with buy-ins over 10k. It would take a while, but it's not impossible. I also know a guy who has won plenty. Not millions, but enough to stop work while he's in school, pay for his school and rent and all other expenses, and still not be hurting.
Wise words spoken by sages From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
In the poker magazine I get (All In Magazine) there are articles about on-line players quite often. One of the most infamous is isildur1. He has won and lost millions on-line. There are others like him, but not many. It is possible. People who multi-table 30+ tables at a time can probably make a pretty good living by just playing good hands and not bluffing a whole lot. You need a lot of concentration to do that, plus a really nice setup of monitors to keep track of the on-going games. There is also software to help bring tables to focus. The most tables I've ever played simultaneously is 4 and that was too much for me; seemed more like work than having fun.
I do agree that most of the all-time winners are the pro tourney players. People like Negreanu, Ivy, and Ferguson have all made their money in "normal" tournaments.
Quote: I do agree that most of the all-time winners are the pro tourney players. People like Negreanu, Ivy, and Ferguson have all made their money in "normal" tournaments.
Yup and although these guys get alot of face time I think it would be a mistake to consider them anything other than great tourney players. Cash games are a different monster altogether . Tom Dwan comes to mind as a huge cash player . Kid lost a million dollars on one hand in an online cash game .
Quote: Yeah, I tried to go onto Pokerstars tonight and got a message about this.
Sucks. I enjoy playing on-line as there isn't a casino close enough to play as often as I would like.
I haven't played in awhile and I guess I won't be. I only had about $120 -$130 in P-stars account as I recall.
As for Ammo, I believe him. Many people have made good coin playing. There are plenty of high dollar tournys to accumulate some good wealth every hour of every day online. Its employment for those that have the talent and the stomach to play.
Sad that Uncle "Nanny" Sam won't let people be responsible for themselves.
It's possible, but every player goes through a dry spell. I don't care who you are, if you play enough you're going to go through a rough stretch. I have seen guys make thousands, a few hundred thousand to be exact, but they won that much playing well known tourneys like the wpt has throughout the year.
Ex-employee behind Pokerstars indictment Written on April 17, 2011 by Fred in Pokerstars Tzvetkoff
If you’re like me then you probably wonder how the DOJ was able to decipher what must have been an elaborate payment processing scheme. Enter a pokerstars ex-employee Daniel Tzvetkoff who was instrumental in the indictments. Australia’s Courier Mail uncovered the story of this Australian born web king who turned his back on his former employees and helped bring down the three largest US poker rooms.
Here’s a quick breakdown of how everything transpired. Tzvetkoff, who started his first company at age 13 with his school mates, was actually instrumental in setting up the elaborate payment processing network that was being used by Pokerstars and FullTilt prior to the indictment. He made it possible for them to move money throughout a network of banks and allow US players to deposit and withdrawal funds at poker sites.
Tzvetkoff left the companies and The Courier-Mail reported that two of those companies Full Tilt Poker and PokerStars, had been seeking $100m they believed Tzvetkoff had taken from them. Before they could get any money from him, Tzvetkoff was arrested last April by the DOJ and charged with money laundering, bank fraud and conspiracy for processing $543m in illegal internet gambling. Since he did have an large bank account and was a Australian citizen he was considered a flight risk and held without bail. That was until last August when after meeting with Federal prosecutors he was released on bail and living in a New York. What changed their minds? He became instrumental in helping the DOJ with the recent indictment by helping them identify 75 processors in 14 countries.
Now the tables have been turned and the DOJ indictment seeks $3 billion from the three poker sites, including pokerstars.
It appears that their is no honor among thieves and if this was Las Vegas back in the day, we’re pretty sure Tzvetkoff would be found in the desert.
Absolutely. I just went through a dry spell - lost about $500 in the last week playing 27-60 dollar buy-in tourney's. Had a great week the week before. Some of these on-line guys, as was stated above, have lost 1M on a single hand. I still do not believe it is possible, even with software, for a single person to play 30+ tables at once - I think it is a team of people playing on one account.
I prefer to play live, but on-line is just more accessible for me with my work hours and having my son for half of the year. Oh well, guess I'll find a new hobby and only play live when I go through Charleston, WV on my way to a client.
I read about the Australian guy earlier today. This is going to get interesting - been reading a lot on the poker forums as well. The money laundering stuff is not good news for people who have a lot of money on the sites. It's not going to kill me if I don't see my money - it will suck, but for people that were doing this for a living this is a major blow.
I just don't know how anyone can trust that 2-8 guys in an online room are on the phone with each other discussing their hands....they can be folding/raising the right hands and taking your cash. I would think it would be pretty easy to have 2-3 people on a team and clean the table.
As much as I enjoy home games, I could never see myself play with real money online. SOME people win, most people lose (like in real casino's).
A buddy of mine at work goes to Vegas all the time, he says he averages $30-40 a bet per hand. That amount gets him free rooms at the dive joints and super discounts at the good places. And then he said he was up last year, BIG. And he's been up for a few years in a row. That's where I don't believe him. It's basic math.....you play, they win. On a hand-to-hand basis, you might win, but they eventually win, the odds are in their favor for every bet (unless you're playing poker against other customers).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
A buddy of mine at work goes to Vegas all the time, he says he averages $30-40 a bet per hand. That amount gets him free rooms at the dive joints and super discounts at the good places. And then he said he was up last year, BIG. And he's been up for a few years in a row. That's where I don't believe him. It's basic math.....you play, they win. On a hand-to-hand basis, you might win, but they eventually win, the odds are in their favor for every bet (unless you're playing poker against other customers).
I agree. I know a few people that go to Vegas all the time. Every time, they say they won, or came out even. These aren't card sharks - just plain old joe's.
There's a reason it's called gambling - and there's a reason casino's make so much money - and the reason ISN'T because they lose.
I was just re-watching Casino last night and De Niro's character said, "This is the end result of all the bright lights, and the comp trips, and all the champagne, and free hotel suites, and all the broads and all the booze. It's all been arranged just for us to get *your money*."
Casino's don't play to break even or lose....they win, all the time.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
No one wins in a Casino, with maybe the exception of Holdem as it is not against the house, over time. There was a good interview with Steve Wynn a while ago on 60 Minutes - FF to around the 2:45 mark if you don't want to watch the whole video - but he basically says no one, over time, has EVER come out ahead playing against the house.
I know gambling is a waste of money, but it sure is fun. If you look at it from the perspective of entertainment then you'll be fine. If you are gambling away the house payment in hopes of "winning big" you've got a problem. I only take into the casino what I am willing to lose along with my ID and players card. Everything else stays in the car - on a good day I'll leave up or even, on a bad day I'll leave with nothing. In either scenario I had a good time.
I all to often sit next to people who take it WAY too seriously. The odds are in favor of the house no matter what if you are playing the table games or slots. You can win at holdem, but you'll get a lot of people chasing and get burnt on a big pot on occasion due to this or just bad luck.
My last beat at the casino I lost ~$350 on a 1/2 blind cash game table - I was doing really well; up $150. I had Ks 9c and the guy I was playing against had 8d 9s. We both limped in as I was BB and he was SB. The flop was 10d Jd Qs - I bet $25, he re-raises another $100. I'm thinking he has AK - don't think he'd limp with that but ya never know - at this point or maybe 89, possibly high pair since we both limped? Just trying to push? Lots of options. I re-raise all in and he calls. I'm looking pretty good - A won't hurt me - I've got the nuts straight draw - worse that could happen there is a split. Next, an Ad drops. Uh oh, not another diamond please! Well, it was - 2d and I lost on a goofy flush. Now I can't blame the guy for calling me - he also had a straight. Certainly not a chaser fish move by any means; just shows how the cards don't always fall your way.
Casino's make their money at most of the games. Roulette is the most notorious and the worst odds IIRC. Any game where you are playing against the house is tilted in favor of the house.
Poker is one of the few games that isn't because you're not playing against the house. You're playing against other players. It is very much a game of skill and a mix of luck.
Some of the most fun I've had is sitting at the poker table on Friday nights with my group of guys, smoking a stogie and sipping on my single malt. Won some, lost some, but always had a good time.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
But....when you're playing poker at a casino, don't you have to pay the house for the right to play? They can't just be giving out free dealers and free drinks to sit at free tables while each of you exchange money. Right?
Our gang used to have poker nights every month. Pizza, chili, or burgers, tons of beer, and playing cards all night. Good times. But then a few moved away and now it's been 18 months since we last had it. Oh well.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Quote: Casino's make their money at most of the games. Roulette is the most notorious and the worst odds IIRC. Any game where you are playing against the house is tilted in favor of the house.
Poker is one of the few games that isn't because you're not playing against the house. You're playing against other players. It is very much a game of skill and a mix of luck.
Some of the most fun I've had is sitting at the poker table on Friday nights with my group of guys, smoking a stogie and sipping on my single malt. Won some, lost some, but always had a good time.
Correct. You win some, you lose some. But no one can tell me - an average, run of the mill, hang out with the guys and play poker kind of guy - that they come out ahead, over and over and over.
Gambling is a losing proposition for 99% of the people that do it.
If you go into it with a set amount of money you are more than willing to lose, fine. If it is treated as entertainment, fine.
But to hear average joe's saying they win, consistently - I don't buy it. At the end of a decade, hardly anyone that gambles comes out ahead. Maybe for a night or 2. Maybe for a week straight. But, easy come, easy go.
I don't begrudge anyone that gambles. Sometimes you win, more often you lose. Take your entertainment money and do as you see fit with it. Take your entertainment money and go out to eat, then hit a movie, then go to a bar. At the end of the night, you have a full stomach, some good memories, and that's it.
Same with gambling. Take your entertainment money, gamble away. At the end of the night, you sometimes have some money, but most often don't, but you have good memories.
Quote: But....when you're playing poker at a casino, don't you have to pay the house for the right to play? They can't just be giving out free dealers and free drinks to sit at free tables while each of you exchange money. Right?
For tourney's there is a flat amount that goes to the casino - for $60 buy-ins it is normally 5-10. The more the buy-in, the more the house gets.
For cash tables, the casino "rakes the pot" - usually 5-10% with a limit of how much it can be.
The house technically never loses at holdem either due to this, just as they don't lose at any of the table games/slots. Black Jack is typically the best odds for the card games; I don't play roulette or craps.
Which casinos do you go to?? In the summer of 09 I was in Cbus for my job and I would go to the Hollywood casino in Lawrenceburg Indiana. I tell you what out of all the casinos I've ever been to, that place had the most action I've ever seen. I won about 3k down there in 2 months. Not bad for playing 1-3 no limit. This one hand I had Ak, the flop comes A-2-6 i bet $10, this older man raises me to $30. I call. On the turn I get a K. i put the guy on 2 pair, something like A2. So I go all in. I had over 200 left. He calls, and shows A-8. That had to be the easiest double up I've ever had. There are tons of guys like that down there. Plenty of players with deep pockets , so it's not like they bust out and leave. These guys will keep bringing out the ben franklins.
The closest casino to Columbus is Wheeling, WV. You can get there in about 1.5 hours. The Hollywood casino is the second closest, about 2 hours.
My work takes me through Charleston, WV so I end up playing at the Mardi Gras casino there most of the time. I'll probably be stopping by there Thursday night this week.
A friend of mine does rather well for himself playing online poker. Wins thousands here and there, generally only loses a few hundred before he calls it quits. Always comes out ahead. Any time we play in person I usually take all his money, but I can't even win enough on a regular basis on a free site to be willing to risk playing for money online. They are definitely two different animals.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Quote: A friend of mine does rather well for himself playing online poker. Wins thousands here and there, generally only loses a few hundred before he calls it quits. Always comes out ahead. Any time we play in person I usually take all his money, but I can't even win enough on a regular basis on a free site to be willing to risk playing for money online. They are definitely two different animals.
Playing for play chips is certainly NOT really like poker. People don't care and take ridiculous risks/chases. The higher dollar you buy in for on-line the more people care as well. Playing a $5 buy-in tourney has a heck of a lot more donks than a $100 buy-in.
I try to keep my play consistent between live and on-line as I don't want to develop any bad habits or tells.
Quote: but I can't even win enough on a regular basis on a free site to be willing to risk playing for money online. They are definitely two different animals.
I wouldn't base your opinion solely from your experience on Free Sites. There is differences but people play stupid when it's not real money and they can always get more. I play on High Stakes on the Vegas Strip for the PS3 all the time. It's free but you can play on line vs other people. The other day I sat at a table with 10k and was doing very well. After a few hours I was getting tired and was going to play one more hand. I had AK of spades. Someone else that had a little bit more money than me called all in. I called them. Cards turn over and he has 4,5 of clubs. He flopped a flush.
I've seen people come in a room and first hand they are going all in just to try and double up. If they lose no big deal they can get more free money.
As far as programming shuffle vs live shuffle, I do believe there is a major difference. High Stakes OtVS has trophies since it is a PS3 game, one of the trophies is a Royal Flush. I have yet to get one but my brother has already had two. I am 32yo, I've been playing poker since I was old enough to hold cards and I have never, ever had a NATURAL Royal Flush in live poker.
I use to play on PartyPoker and I would see hands better than watching the WSoP on ESPN where they parse out the more exciting hands. So there is defiantly a distinct difference.
Quote: I use to play on PartyPoker and I would see hands better than watching the WSoP on ESPN where they parse out the more exciting hand
No doubt about that. The hand I explained above that happened to me at the casino is the craziest hand I've lost live. That stuff happens all of the time on-line. There is no doubt the cards are shuffled a little "looser" on-line than a real deck is.
Quote: but I can't even win enough on a regular basis on a free site to be willing to risk playing for money online. They are definitely two different animals.
I wouldn't base your opinion solely from your experience on Free Sites. There is differences but people play stupid when it's not real money and they can always get more. I play on High Stakes on the Vegas Strip for the PS3 all the time. It's free but you can play on line vs other people. The other day I sat at a table with 10k and was doing very well. After a few hours I was getting tired and was going to play one more hand. I had AK of spades. Someone else that had a little bit more money than me called all in. I called them. Cards turn over and he has 4,5 of clubs. He flopped a flush.
I've seen people come in a room and first hand they are going all in just to try and double up. If they lose no big deal they can get more free money.
As far as programming shuffle vs live shuffle, I do believe there is a major difference. High Stakes OtVS has trophies since it is a PS3 game, one of the trophies is a Royal Flush. I have yet to get one but my brother has already had two. I am 32yo, I've been playing poker since I was old enough to hold cards and I have never, ever had a NATURAL Royal Flush in live poker.
I use to play on PartyPoker and I would see hands better than watching the WSoP on ESPN where they parse out the more exciting hands. So there is defiantly a distinct difference.
That is not exactly the case. People may think better hands show up online, but the reality is you are just seeing far more hands in general online. Think about it, how many hands do you play in an hour of live poker? Now think about how many hands you play in an hour of online poker. It is vastly different. People just remember the hands that are 'big hands' more readily, and with so many more hands being played online the number of 'big hands' will also increase
Shuffle, talk about sports, deal, re-deal (idiot dealer), guy goes to the bathroom, stops at the fridge on the way back to return with 8 beers, flop, we all stop for pizza, turn, more beer, river, more beer, and then talk about the hand in detail (lying about your hand if you didn't show). Rinse, repeat.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
. I really wish they would just legalize these sites in the US where more control could be had over them. I know it will never happen, but of all the things to crack down on this is what they choose? Oh well, figured it would one day come to an end......![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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