|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Next to each player I put where I personally value them, regardless of this draft. You may notice, for example, that I don't have 32 first round picks, but only 26. Fire away!
QB
1. Blaine Gabbert Missouri – Good physical abilities and football IQ… production, accuracy questions…top 10 pick
2. Ryan Mallett Arkansas – Cannon arm and huge potential… character, accuracy questions… 1st round
3. Cameron Newton Auburn – Physically gifted… Intelligence and character issues… 1st round
4. Jake Locker Washington – Physically gifted… accuracy issues… 2nd round
5. Colin Kapernick Nevada – Physically gifted… accuracy and mechanical issues… 3rd round
6. Christian Ponder Florida State – smart and accurate… weak arm… 3rd round
7. Ricky Stanzi Iowa – well rounded… questionable decision making… 3rd round
8. Andy Dalton TCU – accurate, good intangibles… weak arm… 3rd round
9. Pat Devlin Deleware – strong arm… not good at anything else… 5th round
10. Nate Enderle Idaho – strong arm… not good at anything else… 5th round
RB
1. Mark Ingram Alabama – well rounded, power runner, good catching ability… not a big play threat… 2nd round
2. Mikel Leshoure – big and powerful… not very fast… 2nd round
3. Ryan Williams – good athlete… limited production and durability issues… 3rd round
4. Taiwan Jones Eastern Washington – fast and explosive… small, and lesser competition… 3rd round
5. Demarco Murray Oklahoma – Good size, great receiver… not an every down back, durability issues… 3rd round
6. Daniel Thomas Kansas State – powerful runner with great size… not fast or quick, with limited upside… 3rd round
FB
1. Owen Marecic Stanford – good blocker and short yardage runner… not a great athlete… 5th round
2. Anthony Sherman Connecticut – good blocker and receiver… not a great athlete or runner… 5th round
3. Stanley Havili USC – good athlete and runner… undersized, not a good blocker, tweener… 6th round
4. Henry Hynoski Pittsburgh – good blocker, athletic for his size… not fast or a great runner… 7th round
WR
1. A.J. Green Georgia – great catching ability and burst… could add bulk to his frame… top 5
2. Julio Jones Alabama – great athlete with great YAC ability… drops some passes… top 10
3. Torrey Smith Maryland – very fast and a great runner with ball in hands… not a great route runner with inconsistent hands… 2nd round
4. Titus Young Boise State – very fast and explosive… small and drops some passes… 2nd round
5. Jonathan Baldwin Pittsburgh – big with great athletic ability… doesn’t always give best effort, raw… 2nd round
6. Randall Cobb Kentucky – athletic with great YAC ability… not overly fast and drops some balls… 3rd round
7. Edmond Gates Abiline Christian – very fast and explosive… drops some passes and is raw… 3rd round
8. Leonard Hankerson Miami (FL) – good route runner with good size… doesn’t excel at anything; limited upside… 3rd round
9. Jerrel Jernigan Troy – very fast and is an excellent runner… probably just a slot receiver, small… 3rd round
10. Greg Salas Hawaii – good size and catching ability… slow, limited upside… 3rd round
11. Greg Little North Carolina – great YAC ability and good hands… extremely raw route runner, huge character questions… 3rd round
TE
1. Kyle Rudolph Notre Dame – great size with good catching ability… not a great blocker, limited upside, durability issues… 2nd round
2. Jordan Cameron USC – very athletic and fast with huge potential… poor blocker and very raw… 3rd round
3. Lance Kendricks Wisconsin – good athlete with great, natural hands… small, poor blocker, drops some passes… 3rd round
4. Luke Stocker Tennessee – good hands, size and blocking ability… limited athleticism and potential… 4th round
5. D.J. Williams Arkansas – good athleticism with good hands… very small and is a poor blocker… 5th round
OT
1. Tyron Smith USC – very athletic with long arms and excellent potential… raw, and has only played right tackle… 1st round
2. Gabe Carimi Wisconsin – good size, run blocking ability and technique… a bit slow footed with limited upside… 1st round
3. Anthony Castonzo Boston College – Good size and athleticism with quick feet… not overly strong with limited upside… 1st round
4. Ben Ijalana Villanova – very strong, mauling run blocker… not overly quick, may be better at guard… 1st round
5. Derek Sherrod Mississippi State – good size, athleticism and pass blocking ability… poor strength and run blocking… 2nd round
5. Nate Solder Colorado – great size and athleticism… poor technique and use of leverage… 2nd round
6. Orlando Franklin Miami – very good size, strength and run blocking… not quick and is limited to right tackle or guard… 2nd round
OG
1. Danny Watkins Baylor – good athleticism, size and strength… old and a bit raw… 1st round
2. Mike Pouncey Florida – very athletic with good size and versatility… needs to work on technique… 2nd round
3. Clint Boling Georgia – good athlete who plays well in space… not overly strong or stout… 3rd round
4. Marcus Cannon TCU – very strong and powerful… weight and quickness issues… 3rd round
5. John Moffitt Wisconsin – good size and strength… not dominant or mean… 4th round
C
1. Stefen Wisniewski Penn State – smart with good technique… not overly powerful or physically gifted… 2nd round
2. Rodney Hudson – athletic with good technique and ability in space… small with top heavy frame… 2nd round
3. Kristofer O’Dowd USC – good technique and intelligence… limited athletically with injury problems… 4th round
4-3 DE
1. Robert Quinn North Carolina – very athletic with huge pass rushing potential… needs to develop pass rushing moves, not good against run, injury questions… top 10
2. J.J. Watt Wisconsin – great size and athletic ability, dominates in run game… not a dynamic pass rusher… 1st round
3. Cameron Jordan California – great size, run defense and inside pass rush… not overly athletic or dynamic… 1st round
4. Da’Quan Bowers Clemson – great size and well rounded… not an elite pass rusher, injury issues… 1st round
5. Aldon Smith Missouri – great athleticism and pass rushing potential… raw and risky… 1st round
6. Ryan Kerrigan Purdue – good size, motor and overall ability… limited upside… 1st round
7. Justin Houston Georgia – great first step and pass rushing ability… poor against the run… 1st round
8. Jabaal Sheard Pittsburgh – great first step and pass rushing potential… not great against the run with average size… 2nd round
3-4 DE
1. J.J. Watt Wisconsin – well rounded with good athleticism… a bit smaller than preferred… top 10
2. Marcell Dareus – great size and athletic ability… not an elite pass rusher… top 10
3. Cameron Heyward Ohio State – great size and ability against the run… not a playmaker… 1st round
4. Cameron Jordan California – good athleticism and pass rushing ability… small and not very stout… 1st round
5. Muhammed Wilkerson Temple – good size and athleticism… not overly explosive… 2nd round
6. Christian Ballard Iowa – good athleticism and motor… small and unrefined… 3rd round
7. Kenrick Ellis Hampton – great size, strength and athletic ability… raw with motor and character concerns… 4th round
4-3 DT
1. Marcell Dareus Alabama – great size and athletic ability… not an elite pass rusher… top 10
2. Nick Fairley Auburn – an excellent pass rusher with great athleticism… not very stout and chooses gaps… 1st round
3. Corey Liuget Illinois – good, athletic penetrater… not great against the run… 1st round
4. Muhammed Wilkerson Temple – good size and athleticism… not overly explosive… 2nd round
5. Stephen Paea Oregon State – very strong and stout against the run… not very quick or explosive… 2nd round
6. Phil Taylor Baylor – very strong and stout against the run… not very athletic or good at rushing the passer… 2nd round
7. Drake Nevis LSU – very quick and explosive with great pass rushing ability… undersized and struggles against the run… 2nd round
8. Kenrick Ellis Hampton – great size, strength and athletic ability… raw with motor and character concerns… 3rd round
9. Christian Ballard Iowa – good athleticism and motor… small and unrefined… 3rd round
3-4 Nose
1. Phil Taylor Baylor – great size, strength and run stopping ability… not overly athletic with limited pass rushing ability… 1st round
2. Kenrick Ellis Hampton – great size, strength and athleticism… raw with motor and character concerns… 3rd round
3. Jerrell Powe Ole Miss – very strong and powerful… slow with weight problems… 4th round
4. Ian Williams Notre Dame – stout with good strength… doesn’t collapse pocket and isn’t a pass rusher… 5th round
4-3 OLB
1. Von Miller Texas A&M – very fast and athletic with incredible pass rushing potential… limited experience in coverage and slightly undersized… top 10
2. Mason Foster (MLB) Washington – good size, athleticism and coverage ability… not overly strong or great at shredding blocks… 2nd round
3. Martez Wilson (MLB) Illionis – very athletic with great upside… lacks great instincts and tackling ability… 2nd round
4. Akeem Ayers UCLA – great size and athleticism… not overly powerful… 2nd round
5. Bruce Carter North Carolina – fast and great in coverage… small and struggles against run, injury concerns… 3rd round
6. Dontay Moch Nevada – very fast and athletic… has never played linebacker before and isn’t very strong… 3rd round
3-4 OLB
1. Robert Quinn North Carolina – great size and pass rushing ability… limited experience in coverage… top 10
2. Von Miller Texas A&M – great athleticism and pass rushing ability… small and poor against the run… 1st round
3. Aldon Smith Missouri – great size and potential… raw with limited experience in coverage… 1st round
4. Justin Houston Georgia – great size and pass rushing ability… stiff in coverage… 1st round
5. Jabaal Sheard Pittsburgh – great size and pass rushing potential… limited experience in coverage… 2nd round
6. Ryan Kerrigan Purdue – great size and ability against the run… not an elite pass rusher who will likely struggle in coverage… 2nd round
7. Akeem Ayers UCLA – good size and coverage ability… not a great run stopper or pass rusher… 2nd round
8. Brooks Reed Arizona – great size and pass rushing potential… struggles against the run… 2nd round
ILB
1. Quan Sturdivant North Carolina – good athleticism and instincts… not very big or good against the run… 3rd round
2. Kelvin Sheppard LSU – good size and instincts… isn’t overly athletic or good in coverage… 3rd round
3. Greg Jones Michigan State – good athleticism and instincts… not very big or powerful… 3rd round
4. Colin McCarthy Miami (FL) – good tackling ability and instincts… not overly athletic or big… 5th round
5. Nate Irving North Carolina State – good speed and coverage ability… not overly big or good against the run… 6th round
CB
1. Patrick Peterson LSU – great size, athleticism, and coverage ability… lacks great technique and perfect hips… top 5
2. Prince Amukamara Nebraska – great size and hips, good athletic ability… only average ball skills, and can get too high in back pedal… top 10
3. Jimmy Smith Colorado – great size, athleticism and press ability… not great in transition and doesn’t have overly fluid hips… 1st round
4. Brandon Harris Miami (FL) – good speed and fluid hips… not very big or strong… 1st round
5. Aaron Williams (FS) Texas – strong with good press ability… not very fast or fluid, may have to move to safety… 2nd round
6. Curtis Brown Texas – athletic with smooth hips and good ball skills… not very big or strong… 2nd round
7. Johnny Patrick Louisville – good size and athleticism… raw and not very good in run support… 2nd round
8. Ras-I Dowling (FS) Virginia – good athleticism and physicality… not very fast or quick… 2nd round
9. Brandon Burton Utah – good athleticism and ball skills… not very good in run support and inconsistent… 3rd round
S
1. Rahim Moore UCLA – is a playmaker with good zone coverage ability… not a good tackler with just okay speed… 2nd round
2. Marcus Gilchrist Clemson – good tackler with above average zone coverage ability… not a playmaker and has stiff hips… 3rd round
3. Robert Sands West Virginia – very good size, speed and athleticism… sometimes takes poor angles and isn’t great in coverage… 5th round
4. Deunta Williams North Carolina – good size, speed and coverage ability… isn’t a very good tackler and sometimes takes poor angles…
5. Quinton Carter Oklahoma – good size and athleticism… has stiff hips and displays poor tackling technique… 5th round
6. Ahmad Black Florida – physical with great coverage ability… very small with poor tackling technique… 5th round
7. Jaiquawn Jarrett Temple – a playmaker with good tackling ability… not very big or fast… 5th round
Overall (top 64)
Tier 1
1. Patrick Peterson CB LSU
2. A.J. Green WR Georgia
Tier 2
3. Marcell Dareus DT Alabama
4. Robert Quinn DE North Carolina
5. Julio Jones WR Alabama
6. Von Miller LB Texas A&M
Tier 3
7. Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
8. J.J. Watt DE Wisconsin
9. Cameron Jordan DE California
10. Nick Fairley DT Auburn
Tier 4
11. Jimmy Smith CB Colorado
12. Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri
13. Aldon Smith DE Missouri
14. Corey Liuget DT Indiana
15. Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
16. Da’Quan Bowers DE Clemson
17. Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
Tier 5
18. Tyron Smith OT USC
19. Justin Houston DE Georgia
20. Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin
21. Mark Ingram RB Alabama
22. Muhammed Wilkerson DT Temple
23. Martez Wilson LB Illinois
24. Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas
25. Jabaal Sheard DE Pittsburgh
26. Mason Foster LB Washington
Tier 6
27. Cameron Newton QB Auburn
28. Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College
29. Phil Taylor DT Baylor
30. Brandon Harris CB Miami (FL)
31. Ben Ijalana OT Villanova
32. Danny Watkins OG Baylor
33. Kyle Rudolph TE Notre Dame
34. Aaron Williams CB Texas
35. Mikel Leshoure RB Illinois
36. Akeem Ayers LB UCLA
37. Brooks Reed LB Arizona
38. Torrey Smith WR Maryland
39. Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State
40. Mike Pouncey OG Florida
41. Nate Solder OT Colorado
Tier 7
42. Stephen Paea DT Oregon State
43. Titus Young WR Boise State
44. Rodney Hudson C Florida State
45. Bruce Carter LB North Carolina
46. Jake Locker QB Washington
47. Orlando Franklin OT Miami (FL)
48. Jonathan Baldwin WR Pittsburgh
49. Randall Cobb WR Kentucky
50. Christian Ballard DT Iowa
51. Edmond Gates WR Abilene Christian
52. Adrian Clayborn DE Iowa
53. Rahim Moore S UCLA
Tier 8
54. Stefen Wisniewski C Penn State
55. Curtis Brown CB Texas
56. Kenrick Ellis DT Hampton
57. Drake Nevis DT LSU
58. Johnny Patrick CB Louisville
59. Leonard Hankerson WR Miami (FL)
60. Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia
61. Allen Bailey DE Miami
62. Marcus Cannon OG TCU
63. Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada
64. Ryan Williams RB Virginia Tech
Browns’ Board (top 32)
1. A.J. Green WR Gerogia
2. Patrick Peterson CB LSU
3. Marcell Dareus DT Alabama
4. Julio Jones WR Alabama
5. Von Miller LB Texas A&M
6. Robert Quinn DE North Carolina
7. J.J. Watt DE Wisconsin
8. Cameron Jordan DE California
9. Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
10. Aldon Smith DE Missouri
11. Nick Fairley DT Auburn
12. Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
13. Da’Quan Bowers DE Clemson
14. Corey Liuget DT Illionis
15. Jimmy Smith CB Colorado
16. Justin Houston DE Georgia
17. Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin
18. Tyron Smith OT USC
19. Muhammed Wilkerson DT Temple
20. Jabaal Sheard DE Pittsburgh
21. Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College
22. Mason Foster LB Washington
23. Aaron Williams FS Texas
24. Martez Wilson LB Illinois
25. Brooks Reed DE Arizona
26. Phil Taylor DT Baylor
27. Brandon Harris CB Miami (FL)
28. Ben Ijalana OT Villanova
29. Torrey Smith WR Maryland
30. Stephen Paea DT Oregon State
31. Drake Nevis DT LSU
32. Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri
Mock draft
1. Carolina Panthers – Cameron Newton QB Auburn
2. Denver Broncos – Marcell Dareus DT Alabama
3. Buffalo Bills – Patrick Peterson CB LSU
4. Cincinnati Bengals – A.J. Green WR Georgia
5. Arizona Cardinals – Von Miller OLB Texas A&M
6. Cleveland Browns – Julio Jones WR Alabama
7. San Francisco 49ers – Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri
8. Tennessee Titans – Nick Fairley DT Auburn
9. Dallas Cowboys – Tyron Smith OT USC
10. Washington Redskins – Robert Quinn OLB North Carolina
11. Houston Texans – Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
12. Minnesota Vikings – Jake Locker QB Washington
13. Detroit Lions – Jimmy Smith CB Colorado
14. St. Louis Rams – Aldon Smith DE Missouri
15. Miami Dolphins – Mike Pouncey C/G Florida
16. Jacksonville Jaguars – Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
17. New England Patriots (from Oakland) – J.J. Watt DE Wisconsin
18. San Diego Chargers – Cameron Jordan DE California
19. New York Giants – Corey Liuget DT Illinois
20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Da’Quan Bowers DE Clemson
21. Kansas City Chiefs – Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin
22. Indianapolis Colts – Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College
23. Philadelphia Eagles – Brandon Harris CB Miami (FL)
24. New Orleans Saints – Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
25. Seattle Seahawks – Muhammed Wilkerson DE Temple
26. Baltimore Ravens – Akeem Ayers OLB UCLA
27. Atlanta Falcons – Justin Houston DE Georgia
28. New England Patriots – Mark Ingram RB Alabama
29. Chicago Bears – Christian Ballard DT Iowa
30. New York Jets – Jabaal Sheard OLB Pittsburgh
31. Pittsburgh Steelers – Aaron Williams CB Texas
32. Green Bay Packers – Nate Solder OT Colorado
Browns:
6. Julio Jones WR Alabama – Dynamic receiver with the potential to be the league’s best. Perfect WCO fit.
37. Phil Taylor DT Baylor – A big run stopper to pair up with Rubin. The Browns have shown interest and the pair of Rubin and Taylor could clog up the middle.
70. Bruce Carter OLB North Carolina – A very good coverage linebacker who fits in on the Browns’ defense. Only reason he’s available is injuries.
102. Marcus Gilchrist S Clemson – Elam is one of the weaker links on defense and Gilchrist steps right in.
137. Steven Friday Virginia Tech – Small athletic end who fits Heckert’s profile.
168. Aldrick Robinson WR SMU – Fast wide out in the mold of a poor man’s DeSean Jackson.
And now I feel like stopping.
If you wish to do more research, visit the best draft site on the web at http://www.draftbreakdown.com /shameless plug
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
DEEP! Wow! Your list is terrific IMO. We agree on a LOT of these guys. I like your tier system.  Really only two people from your list that I'm surprised aren't there: Vincent Brown Marvin Austin Any info on why you didn't include these guys?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
I'm really not an Austin fan. He is a great athlete and he has superb physical ability, but he has never played up to his potential. He gets taken out of plays too easily IMO. I would be surprised to see him ever live to his selection.
As for Brown, he's one of the way too many guys I haven't had enough time to watch. As you can tell by my random numbers of guys at each position, I only included players I felt like I had seen enough of to make a good evaluation. Brown simply isn't one of them. Between medical issues and school, I simply didn't have the time this year to do as much research as in years past.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Thanks.
Hope whatever it was you had going on is getting better, and welcome back.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Quote:
2. Gabe Carimi Wisconsin – good size, run blocking ability and technique… a bit slow footed with limited upside… 1st round
Interesting.....
May I remind you what you said in December.....
Quote:
I will guarantee you Carimi doesn't go in the first.
I will gladly take your sig bet.
And I said:
Quote:
I'd say keep it simple.
"Disclaimer - I don't know as much about football as I think. "
It goes on after the last pick in the first round. And it stays until the week before the first preseason game. We on?
Your reply:
Quote:
Deal. I like the sig idea as well.
What brought you around...actually watching football games or group think? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
4-3 DE
1. Robert Quinn North Carolina – very athletic with huge pass rushing potential… needs to develop pass rushing moves, not good against run, injury questions… top 10
So you have a pass rushing specialist in your Top 5, that still needs to develop pass rushing moves, isn't good against the run, has injury questions and hasn't played in a year? Makes perfect sense 
You know I like what you do, but I already told you to decide if you want to be as accurate as possible (mock the GMs thinking) OR do it your way/trust your eyes....your lists always seems to be a mix of your thoughts and general (perceived) consensus
Other thoughts on your Top 64:
- Ijalana over Solder and Sherrod and Watkins? Really? There's a gutsy move...but I think this will backfire, actually I'm pretty sure
- I like Watkins over Pouncey...production over hype/name...I'd put
Cannon over Pouncey too...Pouncey is restricted to G only imho, Cannon has RT/G potential, he's more versatile/has more value
- M.Wilson is way too high....I mean you wrote it yourself: he has little instincts and has tackling issues...hello? He's supposed to play MLB in the NFL with below AVG tackling and instincts? Good luck with that...he's a mid round developmental project, who somebody will overdraft mid/late 2nd
- Paea and Ballard in the same tier is a slap in Paea's face...Ballard has done nothing despite playing between 2 much better players in Clayborn and Klug....he wouldn't even sniff my Top100
- Wilson and Ayers over Moch makes little sense to me...in 2-3 years 31 teams will regret not having picked Moch TWICE...even Mayock is with me here
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Ballard has done nothing despite playing between 2 much better players in Clayborn and Klug....
Sounds like a prime candidate for the Bills to jump back into the bottom of the first for, then.
Quote:
Wilson and Ayers over Moch makes little sense to me...in 2-3 years 31 teams will regret not having picked Moch TWICE...even Mayock is with me here
Wait... I thought you were Mike Mayock. I'm not big on any of these three guys. Moch is garbage.
Quote:
- Ijalana over Solder and Sherrod and Watkins? Really? There's a gutsy move...but I think this will backfire, actually I'm pretty sure
Solder's not that good, but Sherrod is. I just watched the Auburn Miss St game 2 nights ago (thanks ESPNU) and Sherrod was a man out there. Miss St would have won that game had just 1 of their players known they were allowed to catch the ball... DBs included.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Nice work..however after learning some things ..if PP/Green/Miller are off the board,look for the Browns to pull the trigger on Fairley..they're being quite about him..to quote Lloyd-Dumb and Dumber: '' THEY LIKE HIM ALOT"...
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/26/11 09:13 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Quote:
Nice work..however after learning some things ..if PP/Green/Miller are off the board,look for the Browns to pull the trigger on Fairley..they're being quite about him..to quote Lloyd-Dumb and Dumber: '' THEY LIKE HIM ALOT"...
We best not take a LB over Green or Peterson... 
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Thanks Deep. Just isn't the same draft season around here without you.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
What brought you around...actually watching football games or group think?
Zing! Sounds like DeepThreat might be in a little trouble. Of course I'd love Gabe Carimi or whatever to fall to the second. He'd be a great pick for the Browns
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
I had a feeling and was actually hoping you would chime in. Quite honestly, I was being stupid. I was way overanalyzing Carimi and was buying into the murmurs being thrown around at the time. I thought too much instead of just trusting my eyes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Quote:
So you have a pass rushing specialist in your Top 5, that still needs to develop pass rushing moves, isn't good against the run, has injury questions and hasn't played in a year? Makes perfect sense
Do you consider Dwight Freeney a pass rushing specialist? Because that's who I think Quinn might be in a few years. He has unbelievable quickness and pass rushing ability. He needs a little refining, but I firmly believe he will be very good. I'm not worried about him not playing last year. He was excellent as a sophomore and I don't see any reason why that wouldn't continue. The injury issues are really my only concern. He had a brain tumor as a high schooler which may or may not still be an issue, and I've heard he has a back problem as well. But I don't know enough about either of those to hold it against him.
Quote:
- Ijalana over Solder and Sherrod and Watkins? Really? There's a gutsy move...but I think this will backfire, actually I'm pretty sure
This is one I struggled with quite a bit. First of all, let me say that I'm not a fan of Solder or Sherrod. Solder is a bit too raw for my liking, and I don't see enough strength and run blocking ability in Sherrod. I like Ijalana as a RT or guard, but not LT. That's the only reason I almost put Solder and Sherrod ahead of him. But I love Ijalana's power and run blocking ability, and think that at the very least, he will be a pretty good guard. I don't see that in Sherrod or Solder.
As far as Watkins and Ijalana goes, I put Ijalana ahead because I think he can probably play tackle. I don't see that with Watkins. Purely as guards, I would rank Watkins higher.
Quote:
- I like Watkins over Pouncey...production over hype/name...I'd put
Cannon over Pouncey too...Pouncey is restricted to G only imho, Cannon has RT/G potential, he's more versatile/has more value
I'm not a big fan of Cannon. He's too slow and his weight issues scare me. He's a boom or bust type pick, but I tend to think he will bust. I'm definitely not a Pouncey fan though. Most overrated non-QB in the draft IMO.
Quote:
- M.Wilson is way too high....I mean you wrote it yourself: he has little instincts and has tackling issues...hello? He's supposed to play MLB in the NFL with below AVG tackling and instincts? Good luck with that...he's a mid round developmental project, who somebody will overdraft mid/late 2nd
I don't have Wilson as a MLB. I think he is either a WILL or 3-4 ILB. I like his athleticism and potential. I will admit that he is raw, but I think he could be a Lawrence Timmons type.
Quote:
- Paea and Ballard in the same tier is a slap in Paea's face...Ballard has done nothing despite playing between 2 much better players in Clayborn and Klug....he wouldn't even sniff my Top100
- Wilson and Ayers over Moch makes little sense to me...in 2-3 years 31 teams will regret not having picked Moch TWICE...even Mayock is with me here
On second thought, I probably should have moved Paea into the 6th tier. I'm not a huge Ballard fan either, but I do think he could be a decent 3-4 DE. I don't like him very much in a 4-3.
I am not at all a Moch fan. He has never played linebacker before and is a big project there. And quite honestly, I don't think he is a good football player at this point. He used his speed in college, but in the NFL he will need to learn to disengage from blocks and play the run better. He's a project and nothing more than a 3rd round pick IMO.
Ayers is another guy I don't love, but think could be decent. He has good size for any scheme and is very versatile. He has some pass rushing ability and can do a little bit of everything. I really don't see him busting and think he will be a solid starter for a number of years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
And to add on Cannon, I just saw a report that he tested positive for Lymphoma. That goes along with something I had heard through a friend earlier, and PFT ended up getting a hold of. Scary stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Dez Brant missed a year and beasted his rookie year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
..and even Freeney wasn't picked in the Top 5-10 (11th overall in 2002)...would I draft a Freeney at 6? Sure...but there's no guarantees until he proves he IS like him...he still has the injury concerns and the year off the field (and there are reasons for that too -> character red flag)...not worth the gamble and risk in the top 10 imho Watkins can be plugged in everywhere along the OL in 1-2 years from now and play at a good level, Ijlana is limited to G only...that's what I see..time will tell I really don't get all the Moch hate....seems like he's either loved or hated...but I still have not heared or read a good argument as to why he's any different prospect than Von Miller....anyone? He's no speed-only player, he his a high effort player and he can tackle at high speed...I think you guys are too quickly pushing him into the Mike Mamula category also, per PFT Ballard and Houston failed Marijuana tests....so much for Ballard, now we know why he was looking so lazy
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
am I safe then because I don't like Von Miller or Moch?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
am I safe then because I don't like Von Miller or Moch?
you're excused...at least you're consistent
I probably would not make any of those my 1st pick in most drafts (1st round), maybe in this particular draft I'd take them in the early 2nd too but def would be pretty happy rolling the dice on such prospects in the 3rd
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Yeah, I can't think of anyone who has been supporting Miller and against Moch on the board.
However, if I had to give a difference, it's that Miller has already played linebacker and he got his sack production against schools which have put out first-round OTs (OU, OkSt, Baylor, and now Colorado) whereas Moch did it in the WAC (that sounds dirty...)
Miller also was the clear leader of the defense at A&M while the #52 guy with three names was the one making all the plays when I saw Nevada play over and over. Admittedly, I haven't seen as much of Miller (despite living in central Texas) as I have of Moch, but he's got far superior play recognition to Moch from the 5 and a half games I saw of Nevada's this year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
No, there isn't any guarantee that Quinn will be like Freeney, but I think he will be near his level, which is why I have him rated where I do.
The only difference between Miller is that he's much better at everything than Moch. They're the same type of player, but Moch simply isn't on the same level. Note that Miller has 27.5 sacks the past two years, and Moch has 15. I'm not a huge Miller fan, especially in a 3-4, but I do think he can be a very good edge rusher and WILL in a 4-3.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
j/c...
If we don't come away with either Peterson, Green, or Jones in this draft, I'm going to consider it a disappointment.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
I think we can go one of two ways ... 1 would really be adding the "elite" gamechanger (Green / Jones / and Peterson) ...
But in all honesty I wouldn't be disappointed if we came out of the draft with 3 dlinemen drafted in the first 4 rounds and also added another OT in that first 4 ... we could add another development linemen (O or D) with a late rounder, and pick up some value...
It wouldn't be anywhere close to pretty ... but it would set a foundation that would carry us a decade on the defensive side of the ball.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Miller was sack hungry, he didn't care much about anything else...in that regard Moch is a more complete player...despite having much more sacks the last 2 years look at the TFL (sacks are part of of course): Miller 39, Moch 42
and adding both Sophomore seasons to get a larger sample size the stats say:
Miller 46.5 TFL, 30.5 sacks
Moch 59 TFL, 26.5 sacks
I have a film scouting report of Miller pretty much outlining the fact he played just for the sack and wasn't interested in anything else...that's not a complete football player...Moch is Ølearly stopping more RBs behind the LOS than Miller, which proves he's a better tackler and all hustle player no matter run or pass
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
How much does the level of opponent matter...?
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
Quote:
How much does the level of opponent matter...?
Ty Cobb could still kick your ass?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
Quote:
j/c...
If we don't come away with either Peterson, Green, or Jones in this draft, I'm going to consider it a disappointment.
That's just silly.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Dj,
I agree wholeheartedly that the stats overwhelmingly support Moch as a better draft selection (given the investment required) than Miller. It was because of his unbelievable stat line and reported measureables that I made it a point to watch his games this year whenever I could. I wanted to watch him specifically to tell everyone on this board how great he was and how we should draft him and how he was going to be the next Demarcus Ware and how he would fix our 3-4 defense.
The first game I watched, constantly focused on #55, seeing him make little impact. I thought "well, ok, maybe he's having a slow game." So I set his next game to record. I fast forwarded through every time Nevada had the ball just to watch Moch on the field and over and over again, I saw him late to see the play, getting dominated by blockers, and protected in the run game by scheme (putting him on the short side of the field.) He was not flying to the ball, he was just trying as much as he could to get across the line of scrimmage. They'd line him up at left end, at right end, standing up between the tackles... and every play it was his responsibility to try to sprint across the line of scrimmage. Half the time, the RB would be across the line of scrimmage before he realized whether the play was going to the left or right. I kept watching the Nevada games because I thought they were fun on offense. I'd keep an eye on Moch on defense, but #52 made all the plays.
How can I put this... Moch made me an non-believer. I wanted to be impressed. I wanted to like him. I wanted to be the guy to rave about how awesome he was... but he wasn't. He just wasn't good.
Maybe some of his issues can be alleviated by moving him to LB. Maybe if a tackle or guard isn't right on top of him at every snap, maybe if his vision was cleared up by being a few yards off the ball he'd be able to use his athleticism better as opposed to firing out of a cannon and hoping he smashes something. Maybe. But I don't know. If there's a tackle there like Cannon or Carpenter when we get to our pick in the third and we draft Moch, I'll be ticked. If neither of those guys are there and we take him in the third and still manage to get a good wideout and RT with the next two picks I could live with that. But I just haven't seen anything that says to me I want to use a Day 2 pick on this guy,
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
I don't really know what you mean.
I don't have an opinion on either miller or moch. I really don't ... but after reading this thread I looked it up. Statistically - Miller's best games came against Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, and Baylor ...
Moch's best games were against Hawaii, San Jose State, UNLV, and New Mexico State ...
If their numbers are comparable ... what would happen if Miller played at Nevada? That's all I'm asking.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744 |
I see where you have Nick Fairley rated and I think Heckert likes him more than you do. I think we take Fairley before we take Jones. Heckert said that character concerns wont dissuade him from drafting a player and there's this Quote:
Either Browns General Manager Tom Heckert really likes Auburn defensive tackle Nick Fairley or he wants other NFL executives to think he does. Regardless, Heckert has had Fairley's back in recent months.
Fairley has often been the target of criticism leading up to the 2011 NFL Draft, which will run Thursday through Saturday despite the league's turbulent labor situation. ESPN analyst Todd McShay isn't the only one who has been critical while evaluating Fairley, but he has called called him a ''one-year wonder'' and a ''cheap-shot artist'' who ''takes a lot of plays off.''
Heckert, meanwhile, has defended Fairley against each claim.
The 6-foot-4, 291-pound Fairley emerged as a force a year after transferring from junior college, compiling 60 tackles, including 24 for loss, and 111/2 sacks as a junior in 2010. He was named the defensive Most Valuable Player in the national championship game, and he's now a candidate to become a top 10 draft pick.
The Browns have the sixth overall selection, and they need defensive linemen to aid their switch to a 4-3 defense. The other top-rated tackle in the draft, Alabama's Marcell Dareus, is not expected to be available at No. 6, so Fairley would be a logical choice for the Browns if they seek a prospect who could cause trouble alongside Ahtyba Rubin on the interior of their four-man front.
Heckert is certainly aware of Fairley's potential.
''I think it's a great thing to have 111/2 sacks as a defensive tackle,'' Heckert said last week during a news conference. ''That's impressive. There is probably no other defensive tackle that is close to that in the draft, so you can't say he is a one-year wonder. He had a really good year, but you can't say that he didn't have a good year as a sophomore. I think that's blown out of proportion.''
When asked if he has seen Fairley take plays off, Heckert stood up for Fairley again.
''The stuff that is being thrown out there, it really bothers me,'' Heckert said. ''Some of the stuff you hear about is legit, but they toss around a lot of stuff way too easily, and I do think it affects the kids. I personally don't like it. As a scouting [community] in the NFL, we bring it on ourselves, and it's not a good thing. The scouts talk too much about their opinions to other people, and I don't think they should. It's not an issue for us.''
Well, what about those questionable hits? Is Fairley a dirty player?
''No, not at all,'' Heckert said at the NFL Scouting Combine. ''I think he's a tough player. He really is. I guess there's a fine line. I was fortunate to have [offensive lineman] Jon Runyan play for us in Philadelphia for a long time, and some people called him dirty. But he's a tough player. [With] those guys, it's not after-the-whistle stuff. I think it's more toughness than being a dirty player.''
No one denies Fairley's toughness. However, some question his motivation and dedication.
''How good does he want to be and how good does he want to be for a long period of time?'' NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said last week during a conference call. ''Anywhere in the draft, but especially in the top ten with all the money, you'd better be darned sure you're willing to bang the table and not just bet on a kid's upside all the time.''
''I also think there's a major concern about him translating to the NFL, getting paid, having this paycheck and continuing to work,'' McShay said this month during a conference call. ''When you look at the production, I think it was 31/2 tackles for loss and a sack and a half when you go back to 2009, and then this past year, he just explodes on the scene, 24 tackles for loss and 111/2 sacks. Why is he just a one-year wonder?''
Fairley offered an explanation at the combine. He said transferring from Copiah-Lincoln Community College in Wesson, Miss., to Auburn proved to be a difficult transition for which he wasn't fully prepared. Whether entering the NFL will be too overwhelming for him remains to be seen.
''Fairley concerns me a little bit,'' NFL.com analyst Gil Brandt said last week during a conference call. ''But when I see No. 90 play the way that he plays, the guy plays with a mean streak.''
http://www.ohio.com/sports/120743464.html
Now I know Heckert is in GM mode but it seems he answered some of those questions with some conviction.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Thanks for your assessment Steve...I can only add that DEs are very disappointing to watch film on most of the time...they are like Adam Dunn in baseball....they strike out a ton, don't look special from play to play but at the end of the season you're happy with their stats. Their job isn't to get on base, their job is to hit HRs and they will whiff and look bad way more often than succeed.....that's just normal for a DE....even the guys with the best stats like Miller or Moch only make a play behind the LOS twice a game...that's not much considering they are on the field for 50+ plays
I believe Moch's game will take off once he gets proper NFL coaching bringing him along slowly as a LB. I expect that he'll be used as nickel-pass rusher with occasional coverage responsibilities as a rook....his instincts aren't there, that's a given but he plays fast (not only times fast) and when he ever should get "it" and the light comes on, this guy will be a terror...I realize he's a project due to the position switch, that's why I mocked him in the 3rd round...but I don't even consider him a total boom or bust project....his floor is still acceptable for a 3rd rounder (sit pass rusher/STeamer...and he HAS ST mentality)...I just don't see him fail completely in the NFL...and above all: he can and is willing to tackle, that's half the battle
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I for one do not overvalue players with poor instincts unless we're talking 5-6 rounders..
Players in the third have a chance to start somepoint in their career and I want a good all around player there..
Rather take someone in a later round who has a more complete game.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Deep's Draft Blast
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
