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Quote:
j/c
My only question on this pick is... Was he the BPA? If so, then great. If not, then why did we draft him?
Not a chance. We reached based on need. And gave up picks to do it. Granted he's a good fit at a position of need, but it was a reach to fill a need nonetheless.
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Two things:
1. I loved the trade down out of 6. That's 5 picks, two first round picks at that. In a draft that's considered by many, including me, to be subpar. Awesome move.
2. To use a poker analogy, it's like Heckert had tons of chips all of a sudden and misplayed a hand because of it. Once I made that trade I watch what happens. There are guys like Christian Ponder going at 12 and other reaches and I'm thinking I may have 4 or 5 guys I'd love to have at 27. But he didn't and I think that was a mistake.
Phil Taylor must have been on a clearly different level from the rest of the options to trade away a very valuable 3rd. If he truly is and is a Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Kris Jenkins type then I'm all in! If he's not...and judging by some highlights I don't think he is...then it was a misstep.
I'd have loved to sit pat and grab Carimi at 27. But that didn't happen. Great job on the trade down. Count me in for another trade down for a 2012 first rounder at 37.
2011 is a learning year where we end up at .500. 2012 maybe we make noise. 2013 we start challenging. And that's BEST CASE SCENARIO.
And that's why trading down in 2011 is smart.
Every GM has some amount of hubris. Belicheck does it best because he trades down consistantly getting more picks to get one of them right. It would be my modus operandi.
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Legend
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Welcome to Cleveland kid. Bust your butt, and keep a good attitude and we will love ya. Also learn to ignore all the wanna be GM's running around Cleveland who prove every year just why they don't have jobs in the NFL. It's because they don't know squat but love to run around like roosters trying to strut their stuff and impress everybody.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Analysis: Taylor has been automatically labeled a true nose tackle simply because he is 337 pounds (and much more throughout his career). He will need to improve his hands and make his hat reads more consistently. The physical ability and the inability of linemen to budge him throughout the week was impressive, but Taylor will require technique work to accompany his staggering natural ability.
Two points, which I originally wrote in January, must be elaborated.
First, hand play was somewhat of an issue in Mobile. Upon further review, particularly the Texas Bowl, Taylor’s hands were much better upon further review. He continually controlled offensive linemen. He shot his hands and he hustled throughout the entire game. Two positives that were questioned earlier.
Second, Taylor has been labeled as a pure two-gap performer. That’s the furthest thing from the truth after watching him in person. He was continually shooting gaps and has the needed athleticism to be a 3-technique in the Browns new four man front. Physically, his potential play and size remind scouts of former Brown Shaun Rogers.
As Cleveland transitions into said scheme, one only has to look at history to see the type of defense new coordinator Dick Jauron prefers. Ted Washington and Keith Traylor were mammoth interior defenders which were impossible to budge as Chicago jumped out to a 13-3 record during the 2002 season. Taylor’s size has already been mentioned, but he will pair with one of the best interior defenders in the NFL, the 335-pound Ahytba Rubin.
Cleveland is making a concerted effort to stop the run and allowing its young and talented secondary to make plays when opposing teams are put in obvious passing situations.
scout.com
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Tom Heckert (On rumors about Taylor’s feet having problems and if he checked out okay)- “There was absolutely nothing with it. I would have to check on this and I’ll tell you tomorrow, but something showed up like a false-negative on one of the things, so they did a CAT scan, but he’s fine. There are no problems at all, no issues what so ever.” http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...3d-8987b61e33bb
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Legend
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Phil Taylor.... I just don't know a thing about him other than what some have posted on this thread.
Seems to be iffy.. Apparently a solid run stuffer, I got no issue with that, we've not been able to stop the run consistently since we returned in 99. So maybe it's time to address that problem.
still can't believe that cinci took Green.., who's gonna throw to him?
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I kind of like this pick.
With Rubin & Taylor facing teams on the line, I think we'll see blocks being eaten up.
We've got Benard and maybe Roth out there on the edges. I don't think I mind that so much.
We could be looking at a receiver and a corner in the second.
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Roddy White doesn't seem impressed...lol... CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- I just finished a news conference with Carolina coach Ron Rivera and Marty Hurney, walked out and got hit with the news the Atlanta Falcons had traded up to grab wide receiver Julio Jones at No. 6. Wow, that’s a leap. In fact, it’s such a big leap that further analysis on new Carolina quarterback Cam Newton can wait a bit. My first reaction as a reporter was to say to myself, “What does Roddy White think?’’, so I turned to White’s verified Twitter account. His first reaction: “Well we got Julio Jones. I’m excited.’’ Apparently, White then saw the same details on the trade that I saw. The Falcons gave up their first-round pick (No. 27) this year as well as their second- and fourth-round picks in this draft. They also gave up their first- and fourth-round picks in 2012 to move up to No. 6 to grab Jones. “Well, I was wrong,’’ White tweeted exactly a minute later. “We give up our draft.’’ White’s pretty much right. The Falcons basically gave up most of this year’s draft to get Jones. He’s a playmaking receiver from Alabama and, in theory, he and White should team together to provide franchise quarterback Matt Ryan with a great duo at receiver. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/20555/falcons-go-all-in-for-julio-jones
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Hate to root against them this year as I like them but they are "just" a solid team that had some little things going to win the close ones (maybe that's what makes a good team in the NFL nowadays) but there's alwas potential for a drop off in production, due to injuries or increased expectation/pressure/schedule etc...they aren't sure shots to be picking this late again next draft...we just could have landed a 10-20 pick as well
For us the deal was ok and made sense...for them? I think they overplayed their hand for what will essentially be their #2 WR the next years
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After all that movement we end up with... Phil Taylor. Talk about a buzzkill! LOL. Oh well... I don't know much about him, so I trust that Heckert and crew made a good pick.
It's just hard for me to imagine we had Taylor rated higher than Cameron Jordan (who I THOUGHT was the guy we were moving up to get -- I was pretty excited about THAT LOL). Apparently, he was our target though. Interesting indeed.
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Quote:
After all that movement we end up with... Phil Taylor. Talk about a buzzkill! LOL. Oh well... I don't know much about him, so I trust that Heckert and crew made a good pick.
It's just hard for me to imagine we had Taylor rated higher than Cameron Jordan (who I THOUGHT was the guy we were moving up to get -- I was pretty excited about THAT LOL). Apparently, he was our target though. Interesting indeed.
Think Vikings Williams/Williams Interior...
Think Bears Traylor/Washington Interior...
This is a huge step in stopping the run...
Now go get A. Williams CB...NOW...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
After all that movement we end up with... Phil Taylor. Talk about a buzzkill! LOL. Oh well... I don't know much about him, so I trust that Heckert and crew made a good pick.
It's just hard for me to imagine we had Taylor rated higher than Cameron Jordan (who I THOUGHT was the guy we were moving up to get -- I was pretty excited about THAT LOL). Apparently, he was our target though. Interesting indeed.
Yeah, I went to bed last night worked up. The girlfriend is angry because I got all worked up. So the Browns ruined my night and my girlfriend's night (which can be a dangerous thing for the Browns).
But I slept, woke up this morning, shook it off (and so did the g/f). Phil Taylor welcome to the Browns. Tom Heckert is a great manager, I'm sure he knows what he's doing. Hopefully Phil Taylor will be a good pro DT. I don't really care what the "Experts" say, Heckert is paid a lot of money to be an expert. He's the guy I trust.
I am still frustrated that the guy I wanted (Gabe Carimi) was picked with our spot at 27. I hope the Browns pick a RT with one of their 2nd round picks!
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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I guess Jordan was too "balanced" and "heavy" as a 4-3 DE for Heckert to really like him, too much of a base end. He prefers bigger guys than Jordan at DT (see Rubin and now Taylor) and smallish, pass-rushing only DEs...we better have some athletic and good tackling LBs and S to stop all those outside runs we will face
When we traded up my wishlist was 1. Jordan 2. Taylor 3. Paea 4. Watkins 5. Carimi and there were a lot of guys I'd be very disappointed with (WR Baldwin, DL Wilkerson, DE Heyward and many more)...so I'm pretty happy with Taylor
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I think the Browns did not go with Gabe Carimi because, as the announcers were saying, he's a mauler, a big guy, and an excellent run blocker. if there is a better pass blocker out there, that is probably who we are targeting being we want the wco. i dont know, just my opinion
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Yeah... After a small amount of reflection, I'm really not down on the pick at all. It certainly makes sense. We needed a DT to pair up with Rubin. It just wasn't what I was thinking at the time. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Legend
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Too early to tell, I guess. I'll feel better after this kid slams Ray Rice to the ground a couple of times.
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everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!
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Quote:
Quote:
We probably could have gotten Taylor at #37.
Umm, like NO WAY?
Several teams would have taken him before that..debatable if he'd make it to #27 but I like to go for what you really want...Colts, the Chiefs themselves and surely the Seahawks were candidates to pick Taylor...
I think it's a great pick at a value position which sets up the draft perfectly position wise....there simply weren't many more 3 down DTs left...he was the most balanced along with Paea and he surely wins the size battle with Paea....good pick, trust me
Read this:
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/huddlenotes/?p=532
I thought I did a mock(not the one with Wilkerson) and had his name and I could have sworn U said sumptin bout him also being a 34 prospect...?
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Legend
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Still a little disappointed....feels like we drafted need and gave up our 3rd to do so. Maybe it was a jump move because all the D-linemen were moving fast...and we had to get him, but jeez.
Well, I'll open up my arms and greet him to the team. Maybe he becomes the next Pat Williams.
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Legend
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I believe you are totally downplaying what we got.. and exaggerating what we gave up. Quote:
Yeah we'll get a late 1st rounder next year. That will be nice next year but does nothing right now.
Good, somebody is FINALLY trying to build a winning team, which takes a few years, instead of making a big splash in the draft so they can sell tickets and jerseys right away.
The only question I have, and I'll assume Heckert and his team know more than me, is... I think we could have gotten Phil Taylor at 27... but I don't know that for sure.
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everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!
Exactly. We have sucked against the run for a long time. And "sucked" doesn't quite do it justice. Taylor next to Rubin should make it more difficult for others to run up the middle.
The more I think about this, the more I like it.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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Apparently Julio Jones was not a "target" then, since we traded out after Peterson and Green were gone. Obviously also then, Fairley, Bowers, and Quinn never were on the radar either.
Not necessarily. We could have had some of those guys on the radar, but felt the Atlanta deal was too much to pass up.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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All Pro
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everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!
Nothing. We don't have Shaun Rogers anymore. I was seriously concerned about what our D would do with the loss of some serious poundage like that. They, apparently, wanted to go D line and fix that problem. Big guys with athletic skills don't grow on trees.
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I thought I did a mock(not the one with Wilkerson) and had his name and I could have sworn U said sumptin bout him also being a 34 prospect...?
Well, he is a prototypical 3-4 NT and I was sure we wanted a smaller 3tech guy next to Rubin...apparently that's not the case. He can also play in a 4-3...I liked him but he was off my radar simply because I thought he'd be gone by 37 and not being a typical 4-3 3tech
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j/c
well, not surprised to see people complaining about the pick.
Hey, it was a solid pick. An anchor in the middle. Rubin next to another 334 pound beast is hard to move. I'm sick of seeing teams run up the middle. This should put an end to it.
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Legend
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I'm not complaining about the pick, I'm complaining about giving up a 3 to move from 27 to 21 to take a guy who I don't think was significantly better than the others who were on the board there.
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2nd String
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I've watched his "highlights" on youtube and, while he DOES seem like he uses his size well, I was not overly impressed.
I think the Browns knew they were in dire need of some size in the middle on defense and they just didn't want to take a chance of him not being there at 27.
Bottom line is this: We trade: #6 overall and 3rd round pick this year
and we get : #21 overall pick, 2nd round (2011), 4th round (2011), 1st round (2012), and 4th round (2012).
Sounds good to me!
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The only question I have, and I'll assume Heckert and his team know more than me, is... I think we could have gotten Phil Taylor at 27... but I don't know that for sure.
I thought the same thing until I looked at it and read some things on the old Interweb this morning.
I now think that 2 maybe 3 teams were thinking of taking Taylor before 27.
If Taylor is who they really wanted, and it sure looks like he was, then jumping up to get him is OK by me.
Now we need to get a pass rusher or two and I'll feel a lot better about the upcoming season......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I'm not complaining about the pick, I'm complaining about giving up a 3 to move from 27 to 21 to take a guy who I don't think was significantly better than the others who were on the board there.
That's a point...but you forget position value...imho DT has much more value than RT and this draft does not have many 3down DT who are scheme versatile...from that angle he was worth the move...maybe the 3rd was a steep price but keeping the 3rd and losing out on a position of urgent need whith little chance to make up for it later in the draft? It's easy to armchair GM, I know for a fact...I was somewhat disappointed too to give up the pick but when you job is on the line you tend to take the safe way to egt what you WANT and NEED...simply put: it was worth it, especially with the extra picks we got from ATL
2 ways to look at those 2 moves we did:
1. We got Taylor AND a 1st n 4th next AND a 4th this AND moved up from 70 to 59
or
2. We got Taylor AND a 1st n 4th next AND 2nd this AND moved down from 70 to 124
We still have 1 more pick in this draft than 24hours ago AND 2 valuable picks next draft
I'm VERY happy with boths ways to look at this...this wasn't a Mangini-like discount...we got real value and used about 20% of that value to secure a guy we wanted and needed, I like being pro-active and not passive like Mangini was...I screamed at the TV to trade up for Nicks with our picks...Mangini stayed put and we got Robo and Massa...I'd trade both AND Veikune for Nicks today, woudln't you?
We are now in position to get good value at positions who offer much better mid round value than DT imho...the draft isn't just the 1st and I applaud Heckert the way he played out his hand here, we finally might have a real GM here
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What drafting Taylor means.
First it means we are one step closer to actually stopping everyone from running the ball down our throavs over and over and over and over and over again.
Secondly we saved enough money to sign a STUD free agent.
Third, his biggest knock in my eyes is that he doesnt fully understand how to use those long arms and big paws. Ray Rhodes is one of the best teachers in the game and should be a major asset to the young man.
Forth, DT was the strongest position of this draft and we got a good one. In fact I would not be the least bit surprised if we didnt get the second best off the board.
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I agree on all 3 Mourg...Taylor has some major upside left in his game and he was pretty good to begin with, everyone raves about his run stopping ability and hustle to make tackles downfield too PLUS he generates some push..sounds like a Rubin with better athleticism/pass rush potential..I like
I might add...what this also means: Dqwell's value just increased immensly, now his instincts will show up even more....I just hope he hasn't lost too much with the injuries
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everyone describes him as a run stopping plug in the middle of the line. what's wrong with that?!
Absolutely nothing, if it happens. Trusting the FO here. 
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That's a point...but you forget position value...imho DT has much more value than RT and this draft does not have many 3down DT who are scheme versatile...from that angle he was worth the move
I agree that DT was an urgent need, and that by our 3rd rounder they may be all gone... but I don't see Taylor as a significant upgrade over Kenrick Ellis, who at worst we sit tight and take at 59. Heck I wouldn't have been mad had we taken him at 37 with Heyward at #27. He is definitely a 3-down guy and from what I've read of Taylor probably has more pass rush ability. He looked like a terrific player at the senior bowl week, which was the same arena that turned me on to Tubby Rubin.
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I really like the pick. Loved the trade with Atlanta. I trust Heck's judgement with regard to the trade to move up to 21, and I think that this player is going to have a much bigger impact on our defense than anyone currently expects.
I think his combination of size/strength/agility was what attracted us the most. And this combination also set him apart from all the "top-tier" DL projected to go early in the draft. I don't think any of them were on par with this guys size---and we really needed his kind of size in the middle. (though I could be wrong, haven't really paid a lot of attention to the measurables this year.)
The value we got in the trade down afforded us the opportunity to draft a need-type player without necessarily abandoning the bpa strategy that most professional gm's subscribe to.
His talent is right on par with where we grabbed him. And he fills a huge void in the center of our DL that Rubin would struggle to fill by himself.
We still need to add some more talent on the D side of the ball with the next 2-3 picks. Maybe look for a change of pace RB late in the draft. I could also see us possibly looking for WR in the 4th round.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I agree that they are comparable DT types but Taylor has much more talent and upside imho and already a more rounded game...better strength too...he wsa highly recruited out of HS
Sure, we buyed high on Taylor but there def was a crowded market for him..so the team who wanted him most is going to get him...apparently we were that team.
If this move was isolated I'd agree but in combination with the ATL trade I'm happy
Also, no guarantee that Ellis is still there at #59, so we would have to take him at #37 to make sure...I get what you're saying you'd rather have Ellis + #70 prospect than Taylor...debatable, I think both scenarios would be good with me....but don't forget: we already traded down from 6...we probably wanted more upside and impact with our 1st pick than a Carimi or Heyward (no fit anyway)
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Everyone last year said we reached for TJ Ward. After a year it looks like we didn't reach at all and got great value for him. So let's wait a year before we start talking about reaches.
Today is going to be a good day. We got two 2nd round picks and 2 4th rounds picks to get back in the 3rd if we really want to. We aren't afraid of injury concerns (Ward, Hardesty, Taylor) So if we pass on Bowers again it will really say something about how scared teams are of Bowers knee.
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i have to be honest, i didn't watch any of baylor live, other than some highlights. so i know nothing about phil taylor, but from what i hear, it sounds like a very smart pick, he fills our biggest need, he's great against the run.
but what i do know is that i loved the trade. the 3 guys i was hoping for were gone, and sure enough they get out of that spot.
i like julio jones, i think he would have been fine in cleveland, but what was atlanta thinking? he's not a number one receiver. and i know they won't try and make him be, but i thought it was quite the stretch to give up a number one, a number two and even a four on top of it to move up and get him?
my philosophy is that you don't trade up unless you are getting either a quarterback or a linebacker/captain/leader type. those are cornerstone guys.
but hey, i am glad we were at the other end of this deal. i would have thought our value for that pick would have dropped ridiculously with green, peterson, dareus, miller off the board. apparently not. heckert should be arrested. i think there is a warrant out in atlanta for him.
it's crazy that people went heavy on a few positions yesterday. 1 linebacker taken, no safeties, 4 quarterbacks, a truckload of defensive linemen, 1 rb, 2 wr.
i'm still saying we go bpa with these 2 picks though. just get us 2 more players, the best pros available.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 Likes: 1
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 Likes: 1 |
I don't think Taylor was a real injury concern. Someone posted something on here earlier I believe, the foot thing was a kind of misinformation, a faulty diagnosis.
At least, per Heckert.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
U know ..this is how I feel..I ,like the pick..I was distracted because my upstairs computer is screwed up ,so I got tied up with that and didn't even see the first tradedown..then didn't see the move up..I feel that Taylor would still have been there @ 27 ,but I don't know for sure ..I don't like giving up hard-earned picks.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,388 |
I will never complain about Dline/Oline pick. Build from the inside out. Great pick IMO.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Your new Brown...Pick #21!
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