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I'm on the fence about this pick.
On one hand, he's a run stopper, and everyone knows we need help stopping the run.
On the other hand, we left the first round without getting a playmaker.
I guess with Green and Peterson both off the board, it's not a bad move to trade down that low and end up with Taylor, though.
Time will tell, but I'm neutral right now.
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IMO, this was not the draft for play makers....there were a couple and then a lot of talent in the trenches
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http://www.draftcountdown.com/ScoutingReports/DT/Phil-Taylor.phpPhil Taylor, Defensive Tackle | Baylor | SR Strengths: • Excellent size and bulk with a big frame • Very strong, powerful and physical • Nice balance and stays on his feet • Stout at the point of attack and can anchor • Able to take on and occupy multiple blockers • Does a terrific job of stuffing the run • Good bull rusher and will push the pocket • Violent hands and uses them well • Aggressive and plays with an edge • Offers some schematic versatility Weaknesses: • Weight, conditioning and stamina are problematic • Not very fast, quick, agile or explosive • Doesn't always play with proper leverage • Not real mobile and lacks great range • Is awfully limited as a pass rusher • Questionable instincts and awareness • Might have some durability issues • Character concerns after off-the-field trouble Notes: Began college career at Penn State, where he redshirted then started five games over the next two years --- Arrested on assault charges following a fight at a frat party in 2008 and after initially being suspended was dismissed from the Nittany Lion football team and opted to transfer --- Was a two-year starter for the Bears --- Named 2nd Team All-Big 12 in 2010 --- Was hampered by a sprained knee in '07 and missed time with a turf toe in '09 --- Showed lots of potential early in career then struggled as a junior before really coming on as a senior and improving draft stock -- Possesses intriguing size and profiles as a prototypical nose tackle in a even (4-3) or odd (3-4) front.
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IMO, this was not the draft for play makers....there were a couple and then a lot of talent in the trenches
I agree. I mean, I do like the pick. I guess I'm still just disappointed that Green and/or Peterson didn't fall to us 
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What drafting Taylor means.
First it means we are one step closer to actually stopping everyone from running the ball down our throats over and over and over and over and over again.
Secondly we saved enough money to sign a STUD free agent.
Third, his biggest knock in my eyes is that he doesnt fully understand how to use those long arms and big paws. Ray Rhodes is one of the best teachers in the game and should be a major asset to the young man.
Forth, DT was the strongest position of this draft and we got a good one. In fact I would not be the least bit surprised if we didnt get the second best off the board.
We have to be able to stop the run..I was looking this kid when i first started doing my mocks ,but took him off when all the madness started..it surprised to a bit,but I remember reading some thigns ..plus the Browns had brought him in..no doubt he was high on the list after Dareus..probably the # 2 DT.
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Yeah, not sure what the upheaval is over this.
Browns run defense ranks:
2010: 27th
2009: 28th
2008: 28th
2007: 27th
2006: 29th
You win on defense by stopping the run. I get that there are some concerns with Taylor but the Browns want to neutralize the point of attack. Taylor and Rueben should do that.
I think there's only one or two players that there'd have been no upheaval over - Peterson or Green.
I personally love the pick. Lets pick up 2 quick DEs (Reed and Chinasa please), an OLB, an offensive lineman and BPAs and try for Holmes or Rice in FA for WR and we've improved our team leaps and bounds this offseason.
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Everyone bickers that we should have Ngata on our team.. well now we got a guy very similar to him..
Stop complaining.. the guy will be a huge asset to our new defense. It automatically means that our DE's will be playing one on one against the tackles b/c either Rubin or Taylor will require a Double Team.
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No bickering,...it is many (five?) years later. We traded with a division rival to let them get what they wanted and we got nothing while he still plays/contributes,...Hopefully we now have our Ngata. 
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Everyone bickers that we should have Ngata on our team.. well now we got a guy very similar to him.
Not to sound down on Taylor, as I like the pick and see the need for him ...
But he's no Ngata (coming out of college, anyway) Ngata was a physical specimen at the time he was drafted. 350 lbs of muscle who had some speed and quickness. People were thinking he was athletic enough to play as a DE despite his proto-typical NT size.
Plus people bicker because of what we picked instead. We passed on a prototype NT and instead took a tweener DE that we had to pigeon-hole as an OLB.
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It's not like we had a need at nose tackle or anything though. We had 97-year-old Ted Washington to play that position! And Babatunde Oshinowo!
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....,....that we don't even have anymore.
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I think I would compare him to Vince Wilfork before Ngata. I think their measurables, and even combine numbers are nearly identical.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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...and Vince Wilfork was the 21st pick.
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So I may have posted here last night or not, saying that I hated the pick.
Today, after sleeping it *and...other things* off, It is rapidly growing on me. The thought of jamming up the middle with Rubin and Taylor, guys who both, at times, can take on two guys...wowww.
This will improve our run defense MASSIVELY. And last year, when we stopped the run, we won a lot.
you had a good run Hank.
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I think one part of Rubin and Taylor;s skill set that is overlooked in the passing game is their ability to take away the pocket. neither are gonna get a lot of sacks but their ability to push that pocket right back into the face of the QB can be monumental.
It leads to interceptions as the QB cant follow through. It leads to big hits as it makes the QB take that extra step backwards beyond his protection. it can also lead to receiver decapitation as the QB will often try to loft the ball into coverage.
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Everybody who keeps saying how this pick is great lists the following reasons:
1) He's a monster run stuffer in the middle
2) He's Shaun Rogers-light to pair with Rubin
3) He will command double teams allowing our DE/LB to run free
My simple thought to all of that is, those same exact things were said about Shaun Rogers when we had him. Yes it was in a 34 front but we plopped him right next to Rubin. How "awesome" was our run D then? How many great athletic plays did our DE/OLB make because Rogers and Rubin were eating blockers? If Taylor is Rogers-light and yet we sucked with Rogers...how is Rogers-light automatically awesome? I dunno.
I repeat, I don't hate the pick or the player. I hate that we had the opportunity to get some elite talent here and CHOSE not to. Fourth round picks and later are crap-shoots. You don't count on those picks getting you anything of value. If they do it's just a bonus, so throw those 4th rounders we got from ATL out the window. So again we traded #6 and #70, to get picks #21 and #59 and a 1st next year. THAT is what I don't like. Losing that extra pick at #70 is a killer. We could have gotten 1 elite player (6) and two solid contributors (37/70) or 4 solid contributors (27/37/59/70). Now we're only going to get 3 solid contributors (21/37/59). I hate hate HATED the trade up. You never ever ever trade UP unless it's to get a stud (like ATL did to grab Julio Jones). We traded up to get....Shaun Rogers light? Unimpressed.
The Browns motto is apparently quantity over quality, but that happens when you blow up a team for no good reason and start from square one....again. If Shurmur doesn't make filet mignon out of the dog poo he's been given and figure out a way to win 8 games (I'm predicting 3-4 wins), then he better start looking for a new job. It's the Cleveland way!
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rogers didnt play his position. he tried to penetrate (thats what she s.....) and did not eat up blockers. different player.
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You don't count on those picks getting you anything of value. If they do it's just a bonus, so throw those 4th rounders we got from ATL out the window.
Wait what? Those 4th rounders don't count? We got hosed!
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My simple thought to all of that is, those same exact things were said about Shaun Rogers when we had him. Yes it was in a 34 front but we plopped him right next to Rubin.
Correct my if I'm wrong here. Last year Rubin started most of the games (or "all" if you want to get technical) and Rogers subbed in for him when he got tired last year. They hardly played together as Colemen, Schaefering, Robinson, and Smith played end.
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Wow. Stay away from the knife drawer.
I was not happy with losing the 3rd rounder...but Heckert did well last year...so no reason to be too skeptical this year.
It sounds like they had Taylor rated fairley high. Like TJ Ward...this apparent reach may not be such a reach afterall. Time will tell.
Also, don't overlook the salary cap implication here.
I think we are happy with our WRs and the trade was too good to pass up. The opportunity too great.
Lastly, that "throw away 4th" this year will likely land a serviceable DE.
I think we fleeced Atlanta and paid a little too much to KC.
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I think we are happy with our WRs
I hope not. Now maybe we saw the value in getting 3 or 4 potential really good players over getting one potentially great player... but I'm still hoping we add a WR somewhere in the next 2 rounds.
yebat' Putin
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Shaun Roger was old, slowed-by-injury, unmotivated, overweight, and rarely saw the field outside of obvious running situations. He never practiced, was uninterested in his future here, and was a borderline malcontent.
This guy is young, motivated, healthy, and his skill set suggests that he will be on the field for both running and passing downs. He also demonstrated throughout college his willingness to hustle down the line to make tackles in pursuit. He will practice and grow with the team, play a high percentage of downs, and make an impact on our defense immediately.
He is not SR-lite. He is a bigger Vince Wilfork, with near exact attributes. He will anchor the line for the next 5 years. He is anything but another SR, and he will prove that over the next few years.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I find it hilarious that to justify his point you have to "throw out" the 4th rounders.
The point is much easier to make when you throw out some of the other side of the argument.
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Quote:
Lastly, that "throw away 4th" this year will likely land a serviceable DE.
Having a couple extra 4th round picks are also great if you want to package them to trade back up...
yebat' Putin
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Nope. There are just throw aways. 
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Nope. There are just throw aways.
Tell that to Baltimore.
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If everything after the 3rd round is a throw away, lets just make the draft 3 rounds and then let everyone go to free agency  Love this pick, i laughted at Kiper asaying he didnt understand because this guy is a 3-4 nose. Hey Idiot, NT and DT are the same thing, take up 2 blockers so the LB's can do thier job.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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In last year's 4th round there were four players taken that made pretty big impacts for their teams.
Mike Williams of the Buccaneers had 964 receiving yards and 11 TD's.
Alterraun Verner started twelve games at corner for the Titans with 3 INT's and 11 pass defenses.
Jacoby Ford made a couple of huge catches for the Raiders last year and had three kick returns for TD's, 2 receiving TD's, and 2 rushing TD's.
And Aaron Hernandez was one of Tom Brady's best weapons last year with almost 600 yards and 6 TD's.
Those are only the guys that I spotted that made a significant impact this year for their teams. I'm sure down the road a bunch more guys will end up starting.
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Jacoby Ford made a couple of huge catches for the Raiders last year and had three kick returns for TD's, 2 receiving TD's, and 2 rushing TD's
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I remembered that somebody was pimping him pretty hard last year.
Couldn't have been you.
Hopefully I'm not doing the same thing with Jacquizz Rodgers next year at this time.
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j/c
I'm surprised to see so many calling Taylor a reach. Many mocks had him going at exactly 21 to the Chiefs.
I am a big Taylor fan. I had him around 30 due to the alleged foot issue, but that appears to have been misinformation. I would have had him quite a bit higher if I had known that. He has good quickness and burst for his size, and he is incredibly strong. He's athletic and plays with a good motor. Surprisingly, he actually is well conditioned and doesn't take many plays off at all.
I've seen the Wilfork comparison, but I don't buy it. Wilfork is quicker and a better pass rusher. I'd say that Taylor is more like Kris Jenksins. Regardless, have fun running at him and Rubin.
Now time to change my sig...
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It sounds like they had Taylor rated fairley high. Like TJ Ward...this apparent reach may not be such a reach afterall. Time will tell.
I don't think it was much of a reach. I know I had Taylor going to KC in that spot, and know that some of the talking heads on TV and radio did as well. Not that me having him there means anything 
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I also love that building the line is going to make some free agents want to come here ... Ray Lewis played night and day in the seasons before and immediately after the Ravens got Ngata. Now I have no idea if we actually go Martez Wilson or get any MLB ... but we could have some amazing backer play if they have almost 675 of a Rubin/Taylor sandwich in front of them...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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I'm surprised to see so many calling Taylor a reach. Many mocks had him going at exactly 21 to the Chiefs.
Thats because it's a Cleveland pick..me,I hesitantly say they probably could have sat @ 27 and still got him even though I hear two teams might have moved on him..but he's was the first rated NT ..and probablt the second biggest DT left in the top 30 after Dareus.
It should tell everyone that Heckert had MD rated # 1 on his board and wanted a run stuffer early.
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Quote:
Quote:
It sounds like they had Taylor rated fairley high. Like TJ Ward...this apparent reach may not be such a reach afterall. Time will tell.
I don't think it was much of a reach. I know I had Taylor going to KC in that spot, and know that some of the talking heads on TV and radio did as well. Not that me having him there means anything
I know there is a lot of talk that Phily and the Jets really liked him. I don't think it was a reach at all.
#27 against the run in 2010 (avg of 129.4 yds a game)
2009 we gave up an average of 144.6 yds a game. Couldn't find the rank but I thought we were dead last.
In 2008 we gave up 151.93 yds a game. Again don't know the rank but can't imagine imagine being higher than 31.
We have to fix the run defense.
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Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?
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Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?
I'd say both. I saw plenty of runs up the middle as well as out side. Now a lot of it was on the LB's in the 3-4 defense. So switching back to a 4-3 and having Ruben and Taylor in the middle I think is going to help.
BTY since 1999 we have been higher than #27 rushing defense one time, #23 in 2003.
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Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?
Early on, when we were healthy, it was the perimeter only.
Once we lost Fujita, it was everywhere.
Rogers was not good at maintaining his gap... SO MANY runs went right by him, it was sick; and it was because he'd be trying to make a play rather than doing his job. He'd overcommit and the RB would just be patient and watch to which side he would go, and the linemen would just help him go that way.
The perimeter was suspect because other than Roth, our OLB's weren't very good at getting out and setting the edge to force things back inside, and once Fujita went down and things got shuffled, the outside was even worse.
Either way, we're in a different defense now, one where more is asked of the DLine than just eat blocks and maintain gap control for the LBers to make plays.
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out, but I do find it odd that we let Rogers walk just as we switch to a D style that should fit him well.
Heck, make him get conditioned better and rotate him at both DT and DE. Him going as hard as he can from the outside would DEFINITELY draw attention.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?
Last year, without looking. Id guess most came on the edge. My sense was that we played well up the middle for the most part. Except for the few times a game Rogers would get caught out of position. In prior years I was much more concerned about the interrior.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Let's look at it this way -
Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green
Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith
Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward
Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor
You tell me how we're doing against the division. The point of the draft is for the weak teams to get better players than the good teams so they can like..you know...get better right?
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Your new Brown...Pick #21!
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