DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Looking Ahead to #37 and #59

So we got interior DL help. That's great and much needed. Still need probably 2 DEs, a RT, at least 1 WR. Maybe a corner and safety as well. So who is left that you're looking at in Day 2? Here's my list:

1. DaQuan Bowers, DE Clemson
2. Brooks Reed, DE Arizona
3. Brandon Harris, CB Miami
4. Randall Cobb, WR Kentucky
5. Rahim Moore, FS UCLA
6. Leonard Hankerson, WR Miami
7. Justin Houston, DE Georgia
8. Marcus Gilbert, OT Florida
9. Marcus Cannon, OT TCU
10. Titus Young, WR Boise St.

I actually think we have a much better shot at getting Bowers than Reed. With NE and Buff drafting 1st and 2nd and looking to improve their pass rush, he's probably a goner. NE drafted OT then traded away their 2nd 1st-rounder (I'm surprised they didn't take Heyward there), so they will almost certainly take Reed or Houston. Buff may go QB, but I think probably only if Reed is gone. They really liked Ponder... the fans like Kaepernick but IDK if the Bills do. Cincy has drafted a WR but still needs a QB. Could be Mallett or Kaepernick. The Broncos I think aren't a threat to take either Reed or Bowers having already taking Miller. I think if we can get Bowers without trading back up, then the top 40 will be a home run for us... especially if his knee holds up (and Taylor's feet hold up .)

I am bummed that Carpenter is gone, and also a bit bummed that if they wanted another jumbo DT why they didn't just take Kenrick Ellis at #59, but oh well.

I am obviously very intrigued by Bowers. But if he really does need to have microfracture surgery at some point in the future he is undraftable at any point.

Both of the corners available (Brandon Harris and Aaron Williams) are very intriguing to me. It would be great if we could get one of them. You can never have enough corners in this league.

I don't really like Leonard Hankerson very much but I think he is a possibility just because he is one of the top WR's available. If we were to take a WR I would hope it would be Titus Young. He runs great routes and is very good after the catch, both important attributes in the West Coast Offense.

Jabaal Sheard, Kyle Rudolph, and Bruce Carter are some others that I like going into round two.

The guy I want the most is Rahim Moore. He isn't the most physical corner, but he is a ballhawk with the cover skills of a corner. I really think Moore could play in the league at least an above average level for ten years.

I think Heckerts type of player is starting to be shown in his picks, this pick in rd 1 reminds me alot of the Hardesty pick last year and the TJ ward pick, in that they are Solid picks.
I guess I would look for someone else who looks solid and think Heckert probably sees the same thing I'm seeing and guess that'll be a possible pick.

With our #37 I'd like:

Bowers, Da'Quan
Paea, Stephen
Houston, Justin

With our #59:

Cobb, Randall... He's short BUT has great hands.

At #37

Brooks Reed DE
Akeem Ayers OLB
Justin Houston DE
Jabaal Sheard DE
Christian Ballard DE
Torrey Smith WR

At #59

Allen Bailey DE
Titus Young WR
Bruce Carter OLB
Marcus Cannon RT
Mason Foster OLB
Leonard Hankerson WR

Bowers won't get past Cinci. They don't have a scouting staff and I swear they always pick the guy who slipped out of Round 1 in Round 2 (according to national draftniks).

37 Brooks Reed
59 Rahim Moore

#37 Ben Ijalana, Aaron Williams, Brooks Reed

# 59 Marcus Cannon, Ras-I Dowling, San Acho, Titus Young.

37# Brooks Reed

59# Justin Houston

What OLB, has a knack for gettng pick 6's ? Akeem Ayers does, he gets alot of touchdowns on defense.

this is how I hope it plays out
New England or traded up , Daquan Bowers 33
34 Buffalo Mikel Leshoure, they'd look good with a runningback
35 Cincinnati, ( will Mallet fall to them to replace carson palmer) Take Mallet
36 Denver, Kyle Rudolph Tight end, would look good
37 Cleveland Gotta take him, Akeem Ayers,

I don't care How slow he is, he makes plays forces turnovers scores touchdowns, he makes pick 6's out of all those dink and dunk passes that we usually see our qb throw. You gotta get an Lb, / De who can cover and scores points from defense.

Akeem Ayers > Von Miller, and the thought of possible having both Phil Taylor and Ayers , would make waiting on the wide receiver ok until 59

4 picks, doggonit we gotta get this guy
C'mon Browns don't pass on Ayers, he is a playmaker, if your not getting turnovers scoring points on defense then whats the point, and thats what he does.

When I look at Ayers I just see a lack of intensity and passion for the game... I dont know what it is.

his tape does show otherwise though.

Oh my gosh, with all the passion I've ever had on this board
Brooks reed vs Akeem Ayers, Reed looks like a no playmaking also ran and Ayers looks like a game changer .

Who has more touchdowns, they play the same position, how can someone without passion have so many touchdowns.

I just hope they take Ayers so you can see, the guy is going to be a sure fire, highlight reel, touchdown scorer, from defense, because they follow him all too often and I want a guy who returns an interception 70 yards to be on the Browns for once.

me too..

Ayers definitely has production to his advantage just about over everyone left...

Bowers is still too much of a risk....Harris is very raw, some technique issues and not very sharp reading what's going on, he has some Eric Wright to him, comparable talent imho

Here's a guideline:

1. I want: The BPA for me is clearly CB A.Williams, he's the bump and run CB we covet...I'd be very pleased with DE Sheard, WR Cobb, WR T.Smith though...that's my top 4

2. I'd be ok with (some may be considered Ward-like reaches but I dont care, they're good players that could help us day1): OLB Moch, DE Acho, CB I-Dowling, RB Williams, CB/FS Gilchrist, DT Paea (would be in list 1, but we already took a DT), LB Sturdivant, LB McCarthy, LB Foster, LB KJ Wright, S Sash, WR Salas

3. I'm torn on: CB Harris, DE/OLB Reed, like him but he's a better 3-4 fit, also torn on WR T.Young but be ok with (tending list 2), torn on OLB Carter but not so ok with (obv injury, tending list 5), Jernigan (not a bad player but he'd be a reach for us in the 2nd imho), G/C Hudson (would be on list 2, maybe even 1 if we didnt have Mack, he is a great C-prospect, just ok as G), RB Murray (like him a lot but simply not so good position and slot value, list 2-3 guy), RB Vereen (see Muray), RB Leshoure (really, only reason he's here: I dont know much about him, maybe a list 2 or 4, dunno), WR Gates (see Leshoure), G Rackley (see Gates), S Conte (he's meh, I'd be ok with him later but not in the 2nd), OT Brewer and OT J.Reid (too raw, would be reaches in 2nd)

4. I don't want: DT Austin, OT Gilbert, FS Moore, WR Hankerson, LB Wilson, LB Ayers, DE/OLB Houston), WR Little, DL Bailey, OT Franklin, OL Ijalana, TE Rudolph and any QB at this point

5. Medical no gos: DE Bowers, OL Cannon (maybe OLB Carter should be in here too)

That said...if we pick 1 of my top4 and another one NOT on list 4 I'd probably be very happy...if both picks are from my top 2 lists, then start planing a big party

We need a Corner opposite Haden...And if we wait it's gonna be a Nickel type...

Time to POUNCE on A. Williams...

Give a 5th if u need to...Just get this kid...

No damn way Heckert goes taking a DE just because we need one...

I hope Heckert doesn't stretch and reach for an End...

Keep with the Board...Whether it be WR/OT/LB/S...

When the NFL figures out this League Year stuff and announces it today we'll know WHEN FA starts...And who's a FA...(Like this coming week)...I bet we pounce on an End in FA...Kiwanuka???

I recorded the replay of the UT v. A&M game over the weekend and watched it Wednesday night specifically for Von Miller, the three Texas corners, and Sam Acho. I did not come away impressed with Williams. I think Curtis Brown played better (Chykie was basically not on the field except for special teams).

Looking at your list #2... it sure would he nice to have a pick around #70.

I would not conisder Sheard a need reach at #37...if we bypass Williams for him, then yes it was a need pick...but still I consider DE a more value position than CB and it IS a much bigger need for us at this point...now if we get both Williams and Sheard I better don't think it or else I will just be disappointed

37 We can get a very good player here. DE Bowers, FS Moore, Hell I might even take Paea if he is still available, You have to rotate these big tackles often.

59 should be a good position for a receiver. Young, Cobb, Little, Hankerson I dont have a problem with any of them.

those 4th round picks u can get a good RT and a couple DE's in the Jauron mold.

Sheard probably gone to the pats with that first pick today or to Buffalo. I doubt he makes it to us.

At 37 I would go Aaron Williams, he can be a solid nickle corner, or FS, has good ball skills, great body control, and would step in and be playing right away (or should at least).
Others I would consider (in no particular order):
*(Bowers just because of potential, but not knowing exactly what the deal is with his knee he may not even be on our board any longer.
*Justin Houston, LB, Georgia (Despite the character concerns he is a force on the field)
*Akeem Ayers, LB, UCLA (for above mentioned reasons)
*Torrey Smith, WR, '(questionable hands at times' scares me, but he has that quick-twitch I like to see in a receiver).
*Brooks Reed, DE, Arizona (Not spectacular at anything, but very good at almost everything, stout at point of attack and uses hands really well, imo)

At 59, some of the above may still be there, so of course them, or;
*Allen Bailey, DE, Miami
*Bruce Carter, OLB, North Carolina,
*Martez Wilson, OLB, Illinois
*Ras-I Dowling, CB, Virginia
*Johnny Patrick, CB, Louisville

I would also try to trade back with the 59 pick, maybe acquire a third or fourth in addition to the new later pick.

37: Brooks Reed (DE) or Aaron Williams (CB/FS)
59: DeAndre McDaniel (FS) or Allen Bailey (DE) or Ras-I Dowling (FS/CB)

Really don't get the Ayers and Wilson lovefests...LBs who have tackling issues in college and have "raw" or "questionable" instincts bust regularly..for me both are very athletic projects with a mindset that is hard to change at the NFL level...

I prefer Moch as a project because he LIKES to tackle and is fearless which enables him to play as fast as he times....Wilson and Ayers otoh have some softness to their game, slwoing down before contact...that's a recipe for failure in the NFL at that position...I'd really be disappointed if we picked any of the 2 at any point in the 33-75 range

Quote:

---

I would also try to trade back with the 59 pick, maybe acquire a third or fourth in addition to the new later pick.

---

This is a good idea... if Reed and Bowers are gone when we pick at #37 I'd like to move back in the second if we could get another 3rd. Darned Steelers got Heyward at #31.

Hmmm, so Bowers is still on the board? ESPN.com must have had a glitch last night then. Their update ticker popped up as Bowers with the Packers pick and then I went to bed.

Its not a 'love-fest', its that I see them as productive college players that can be coached up. I don't consider them my 'top' choices but rather players would could be of value when we pick if other players are no longer available.

I don't like the 'instinct' issue either, but that can either be something with how he watches tape, or just a mental issue. If mental, not saying hes dumb just that he can't process quick enough, then its an issue, but if its how he watches tape and learns to read the O its coachable and correctable and his athleticism makes him a good pick.

We can't say which it is exactly, but I hope the staff has that worked out, and either hes on the board or not.

I just don't see Bailey as a fit for what they are looking for at DE

Next time you quote me better make sure you use the whole quote if you're really interested in a discussion, you're whole "point" is based on cutting off my post ...I actually explained WHY I prefer Moch over those 2 (and I labled them ALL projects if you mind to re-read)...you didn't give me any arguments as to why Ayers is better btw...so much for arguments and discussions and stuff

j/c I don't understand why it's not ok to draft a guy who might only be really good for a few years at #37 but it's OK to draft a guy who might never be any good at all

Heckert has said that the kind of DEs he likes are available later in the draft ..... from the 2nd round all the way to the 5th or 6th rounds, because many are "pure" 4-3 ends who will not make great OLB, but are really good pass rushers from the DE spot. This means that there is far less competition for them.

I thought that DT would be the harder spot to fill in this draft wnen it came to a true, impactful player. There are tons of DEs, but not nearly as many DTs. It really doesn't surprise me that much that we went DT. Hopefully we went with the right DT. lol

I think we could go OLB, CB, or WR in the 2nd. I think that we'll load up on DE prospects in the 4th-5th rounds, or maybe even package picks to move back into the 3rd.

j/c ...

I don't understand why some of you are sooo down on Bowers.

I think it's a no-brainer to take him if he's there.

If you can get a top 5 talent, even with injury concerns, in the 2nd, I think you take the risk.

FRom nfldraftscout: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1244512

Tackling: Generally a reliable tackler, leading with his shoulder or getting too high going for the highlight-reel hit and bouncing off the ballcarrier. Can improve as a wrap-up tackler. Can get a bit out of control when pursuing laterally and overrun the play, but is so long and athletic, he's usually able to trip up the ballcarrier to prevent cutback opportunities. Good effort laterally and downfield in pursuit. Good strength for the drag-down tackle. Brings his hips as a tackler, creating explosive hits to force the ball out. Has seven forced fumbles in three seasons.

Major red flags imho...if he's not a dominant/consistent tackler at the college level he's not worth a top 75 pick for the NFL imho...a "bounce off" or not secure wrap up tackler at LB will lead to many big plays...I'd rather have a slower guy that doesn't mess up as often

That said I'd take Ayers over Wilson for sure...

I think the issue with Bowers is we have no real information on his knees.

If his knees are not fully recovered and he's going to need additional microfracture surgery now. Then, that means he won't play this year and not be 100% next year. And, we won't know how much of his athleticism he will lose (though the procedure/rehab is better now)

finally, there was plenty of stuff on how teams thought there were also long-term implications in how his knees were built. so, if you can't trust him presently and can't trust him long-term, then you are drafting him hoping you can squeeze a year or two out of him a couple years from now.

If all that's true, and it might be, then he's a 3rd round gamble, maybe even a 4th. You pick a guy with the expectation of playing/growing him now. NOT the next year.

and this site you are showing still has Ayers rated as the #27 prospect, Moch as the 67th.

also, I think this portion of that profile for Ayers is important to pair with what you posted:

Run defense: Has size, strength and willingness to take on blockers at the point of attack. Seems to enjoy the physicality of the game, showing good upper-body strength and quick, active hands to quickly shed blocks. Unselfish defender that typically maintains gap discipline.

Can Justin Houston be a 4-3 end?

I wonder if Ryan Mallett might be on holmgren's wish list today lol. Bret Farve clone and heckert and holmgren like to stockpile quarterbacks. hmm