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Legend
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Quote:
I was thinking they say it was a mission to capture or kill OBL.
I bet it wasnt I bet the mission was just to kill him.
I'm ok with that!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Everything had to go right, and it did
umm not really we lost a helicopter do to mechanical failure. The fact that that happened at it didnt seem to matter is also amazing.
Joe Thomas #73
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Legend
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I'm still of the opinion that bin laden has video tapes or audio recordings that will be released soon saying, in effect "Contrary to what the infidels have stated, I am not dead." etc, etc.
They won't be dated, of course.
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Legend
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It would be a lot easier to do like the Soviets did in Afghanistan and just wipe out villages, but we don't.*
*since 1975
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Do non combatant fatalities occur? Yes, they do, and it's extremely terrible and unfortunate. But, I think we at least TRY to keep them at a minimum.
Never agreed with that argument. When you rain bombs on major metropolitan cities, you're not trying to not harm innocent civilians.
You can also have all the 'strategic' targets you want ... when you fire a couple hundred missiles, it's a crapshoot.
And, hey, that's how war works, I get that. But the moral deflection of 'we tried not to' doesn't sit right with me.
You drop the bomb, you should live with the depravity of it.
Do you somehow think that people don't live with it, don't care or perhaps don't even think about it?
Bad things happen. Unintended things happen. Sometimes, a person needs those moral deflections to keep themselves sane after something that *should* have worked goes horribly wrong.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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They're going to release the picture soon.
Really.
Soon.
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Legend
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Unarmed?
I'd say "Who cares?".
We sent SEAL's, not Federal Marshall's.... we weren't there to bring him back for a trial.
I agree....he wasn't armed my ass....as far as I am concerned he was pointing a gun at everyone.
They still need to release photos. If not, letters from Bin Laden will start to appear saying he is still in control.
We are about the only "politically correct" nation in this world....."Fcrew" what the Muslims think.
And for that matter, who really likes anything "political" anyway??
Show some pictures....fish his rotten corpse out of the water, pickle him and put him in a side show.
There is no problem find a pic of this dead woman.
http://www.werismyki.com/imgs/falling08.jpg
I agree. I believe they will release photos within the next few days. All they have to do is put the disclaimer of "graphic; viewer discretion advised".
I'm not one to celebrate death, but this is one guy I will be glad to see with a big chunk of his head missing.
In this day and age....who hasn't seen stuff like that???
I am sorry it is that way.....but it is what it is.
It would be better like when I was 13, rooting through the barber shop dumpster with my friends seeking out a freshly discarded stag magazine....but then again, just plugging in naked woman is much easier then having one root through a dumpster while a few others stood watch....but I still prefer it my way....kind of kept the mystery involved.
Today, there is no mystery involved.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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Couple of thoughts: First, I stand in wonder at our military's ability to fly into a foreign country, unbeknownst to them, spend 40 some minutes on the ground, and fly out. All less than a mile from a military base. Radar jamming. Painting our helicopters - what ever. It's amazing.
No kidding, it's really amazing. I understand that this particular Seal Team is considered the best of the best.. well, seems as if they proved it. amazing. Simply amazing.
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Second - I find it extremely difficult to believe our troops were told to "capture or kill" bin laden. That might be what we are saying now - but I highly doubt the troops involved were told capturing bin laden was a viable option. Had he been captured - then what?
Totally agree. I also agree with those that are saying the reason Pakistan wasn't informed of the operation is because we believe they'd have tipped him off.
To me, that's a no brainer.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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No doubt....we went in the first several years keeping the Pakistanis informed....and low and behold...the guy got away.
Ok.....we finally get more legit INTEL, so, send in the CIA to send out bogus info, send in the SEALS, and tell the goofs in Pakistan a bit too late and we nail the rooster sucker.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Oh, believe me, I'm not saying it's an excuse or makes everything we do *ok* if we try to limit noncombatant fatalities. It's always terrible and always tragic when it happens.
But, it happens. It's not going to be possible for us to engage in any military action and not have civilians die. It's just not possible. All we can do is try to keep it to a minimum.
But, as I said, in the end, the most important thing to me, FWIW, is to advance American interests and protect American lives.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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All Pro
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You think we're going to see them anytime?
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
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Legend
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Oh, believe me, I'm not saying it's an excuse or makes everything we do *ok* if we try to limit noncombatant fatalities. It's always terrible and always tragic when it happens.
But, it happens. It's not going to be possible for us to engage in any military action and not have civilians die. It's just not possible. All we can do is try to keep it to a minimum.
But, as I said, in the end, the most important thing to me, FWIW, is to advance American interests and protect American lives.
We could always return to carpet bombing if people *really* want to get up in arms over it. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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You think we're going to see them anytime?
I shot and killed Big Foot yesterday, dumped him in the lake though, didn't want to anger the locals.
Trust me, I got him 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Dawg Talker
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The question is .. even with things like plastic surgery ... what's to say even if we "saw" him that it would actually be him? They could take a guy who has a similar build, do a little plastic surgery and have it be the decoy for Osama?
Or our government could have done the same thing, then shot him in the face and given just a little more reason for why the face doesn't match up? Just because you think you see something shouldn't give you any verification.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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NYT was saying yesterday that they dumped him at sea b/c they didn't want his burial place to become a shrine.
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Legend
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Why did Bin Laden hate America so much? Serious question. Surely it wasn't all about religion - was it partly because he was a Palestine sympathizer? No one has to tell me how brutal 9/11 was, if anyone deserved a bullet it was him... Obviously I'm not justifying his terrost bent, but what in your opinions led him to ordering the attacks of Sept. 11?
Thoughts & facts, please.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Why did Bin Laden hate America so much?
1. We support Israel.
2. We supported the mujihadeen, then abandoned them once they kicked out the soviets.
3. We're not muslim.
4. We've often been involved with dictatorships in the middle east. The best example is the Shah of Iran, who we put back into power after his people outed him.
5. We're not muslim.
6. In his eyes, we are a decadent society. Personally, I don't consider women in bikinis, women driving, or women working to be decadent. I'd love a woman to work for me while driving in a bikini.
7. We're not muslim.
8. In about 1100 AD, christian soldiers took back Jerusalem from the muslims. Muslims considered Templars to be the terrorists of their time, as the Templars would usually kill everyone not christian in their path, and would fight to the last man.
9. We're not muslim.
Let's face it, silly people have been fighting over the same little plot of land for over 6000 years. They get really assinine when they have nothing to show for 6000 years of fighting.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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Legend
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That's pretty much it. Here are the words straight from the horses mouth if you're interested.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Why did Bin Laden hate America so much? Serious question. Surely it wasn't all about religion - was it partly because he was a Palestine sympathizer? No one has to tell me how brutal 9/11 was, if anyone deserved a bullet it was him... Obviously I'm not justifying his terrost bent, but what in your opinions led him to ordering the attacks of Sept. 11?
Thoughts & facts, please.
One of the things that you should understand is that the media outside of the USA presents the USA differently than the media inside the USA.
USA media protrays the USA as honorable, seeking compromise, and trying to do the right thing, and studing up for truth, justice, and liberty for all.
International media is not so kind to the USA. We are portrayed as an 800 lb gorilla, with a navy that is larger than the next 12 countires combined., a war monger, and a bully... We are also inconsistent... and the whole waterboarding Gitmo saga did not help that at all.
The truth is probably somewhere in-between.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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Wait... I thought lamp was Canadian.
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Pstu24;
I am not sure how many 6'5" muslim guys are living in a million dollar house in the middle of Pakistan.
I heard last night on tv that the gov't says that they have pictures, they have DNA and they also have a bunch of OBL's computers, DVD's and other stuff, so they should be able to tell if it was really him. And yes with the political society that we live in, Obama is going to have to release something to quell the other side and yes it may ... off some people in the middle east.
And if it were me, I wouldn't have sent him off at sea. I would have had a bonfire at ground zero or something like that.
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Dawg Talker
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But the point is ... how many 6'5 people are there in the world that could be a terrorist linked to Osama? "You are going to get plastic surgery to play the double of our leader to please Allah" .. if they blow themselves up, pretending to be Osama isn't exactly a stretch of the imagination. What are the criteria? 6'5. Check...... anything else? Well it should be DNA ... but how is the common citizen going to see the DNA? My point was that even if we saw pictures, it doesn't exactly proove it was him. Heck, I could give you some photos in 20 minutes if you let me log into photoshop ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Random comment
Why is it so important to some people to believe that they are being lied to about everything? So the US decided to create one of the biggest hoaxes in world history which would send the nation into an outrage if it was ever exposed?
It provides an actual psychological rush. Some people actually get their jollies by thinking they know a secret, which leads to conspiracism.
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Quote:
My point was that even if we saw pictures, it doesn't exactly proove it was him. Heck, I could give you some photos in 20 minutes if you let me log into photoshop ...
Kind of surprised the US is being coaxed in to showing pictures / video / DNA of Osama Bin Laden's death.
If the US did not kill him Sunday, he would have already been on Al Jazeera, eating a donut, reading the Monday edition of the NY Times and telling Obama to kiss his ass.
The deafening silence is more damning than any picture / evidence the US could ever produce. You can fake photos, videos and DNA evidence. You can't fake silence.
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Quote:
Random comment
Why is it so important to some people to believe that they are being lied to about everything? So the US decided to create one of the biggest hoaxes in world history which would send the nation into an outrage if it was ever exposed?
It provides an actual psychological rush. Some people actually get their jollies by thinking they know a secret, which leads to conspiracism.
What has the government done to earn your trust? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I can see why some end up going down that paranoid road.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Random comment
Why is it so important to some people to believe that they are being lied to about everything? So the US decided to create one of the biggest hoaxes in world history which would send the nation into an outrage if it was ever exposed?
It provides an actual psychological rush. Some people actually get their jollies by thinking they know a secret, which leads to conspiracism.
What has the government done to earn your trust? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I can see why some end up going down that paranoid road.
I am not going to walk around with a tin foil hat.
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Legend
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a new random thought:
Been watching news on CNN tonight, complete with footage of ObL's crib.... and I'm thinking: Damn! Real estate in Pakistan must go for about the same as Manhattan- a million bucks ain't buyin' you much.
What a hole.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Legend
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Secrecy carries a premium.
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Legend
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Secrecy carries a premium.
He should ask for a refund when he talks to his "allah"
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1st String
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Quote:
Why did Bin Laden hate America so much?
Bin Laden's real problem with the United States only began after we stationed U.S. troops in the Arabian peninsula after the first Gulf War. That's what caused him to issue his 1996 "declaration of war" against the U.S.
I think there's a popularly-held idea that al Qaeda was formed to battle the U.S. and what it stands for. The fact is, the organization was around for seven years before bin Laden turned their targets toward the U.S. Bin Laden was much less of an ideologue (at least in the beginning) than people think. All the ideological stuff came later as a way to spread his political message and recruit disillusioned youths.
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Legend
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Quote:
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Secrecy carries a premium.
He should ask for a refund when he talks to his "allah"
That dude didn't believe in a god of any sort.
And curious - why did you put "allah" in quotes with no capital? He does exist as a character, no different than Jesus.
Would you write "jesus"?
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All Pro
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Allah is God.
The same God that Christians believe in.
Difference is that Muslims don't really like JC all that much and instead like Mohammad who came a lot later.
It's just semantics, but they're really the same "being."
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
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Dawg Talker
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If the US did not kill him Sunday, he would have already been on Al Jazeera, eating a donut, reading the Monday edition of the NY Times and telling Obama to kiss his ass.
The deafening silence is more damning than any picture / evidence the US could ever produce. You can fake photos, videos and DNA evidence. You can't fake silence.
Point taken. And I can buy into that too. However, I can also see a guy who has been the FBI #1 target for a decade (give or take a few months) who now is presumed dead. It might give him a great chance to just get back to doing what he was doing, and that could include planning attacks.
I don't know if I buy into anything I am actually saying, but at the same time it's not like we know how this guy thinks anyway...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Why did Bin Laden hate America so much?
Bin Laden's real problem with the United States only began after we stationed U.S. troops in the Arabian peninsula after the first Gulf War. That's what caused him to issue his 1996 "declaration of war" against the U.S..
I think there's a popularly-held idea that al Qaeda was formed to battle the U.S. and what it stands for. The fact is, the organization was around for seven years before bin Laden turned their targets toward the U.S. Bin Laden was much less of an ideologue (at least in the beginning) than people think. All the ideological stuff came later as a way to spread his political message and recruit disillusioned youths.
Enough with the gobbledygook.
He hated our freedom. 
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Legend
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Obama: I won't release bin Laden death photos
May 4, 2011
In an interview with Steve Kroft for this Sunday's "60 Minutes," President Obama says he won't release post-mortem images of Osama bin Laden taken to prove his death.
Video of the comments will appear on the CBS "Evening News" on Wednesday.
Republican House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said Wednesday that the Obama administration should not release the gruesome post-mortem images, saying it could complicate the job for American troops overseas. Rogers told CBS News he has seen a post-mortem photo.
"The risks of release outweigh the benefits," he said. "Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East."
"Imagine how the American people would react if Al Qaeda killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the internet," he continued. "Osama bin Laden is not a trophy - he is dead and let's now focus on continuing the fight until Al Qaida has been eliminated."
Skeptics have called on the United States to release photos of bin Laden, who officials say was shot in the face during a raid on his compound, in order to prove that the al Qaeda leader is really dead.
The White House had said it was debating whether to release the photographs, which are believed to be extremely graphic. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday that the photos could inflame anti-American sentiment.
CIA director Leon Panetta told CBS News Tuesday that he thought a photo would be released, though he said the White House will make the final decision. Panetta told NBC News that "I don't think there was any question that ultimately a photograph would be presented to the public."
CBS News national security correspondent David Martin has been told the photographs are "very gruesome" and won't be for the "squeamish."
"I've had it described to me and it does sound very gruesome," he said. "Remember, bin Laden was shot twice at close range, once in the chest and once in the head, right above his left eye, and that bullet opened his skull, exposing the brain, and it also blew out his eye. So these are not going to be pictures for the squeamish."
Neil Livingstone, Chairman and CEO of Executive Action and author of nine books on terrorism, said he disagreed with Mr. Obama's decision.
"If we can't conclusively demonstrate that indeed he is dead there will be those who say he is still out there," he said. "Al Qaeda might even try to keep his legacy going and say 'they got someone else, they didn't really get him.'"
Two Republican senators -- Saxby Chambliss, R-GA, Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Armed Services Committee, and Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-NH, a member of the Armed Services Committee - told CBS News Wednesday they had seen post-mortem photographs of bin Laden.No Democrats have said they have seen the images.
Photoshopped images purporting to show bin Laden after he was killed have already surfaced on the Internet.
web page
Last edited by mac; 05/04/11 02:04 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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Quote:
"The risks of release outweigh the benefits," he said. "Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East."
Thank you Mike Rogers. 
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2nd String
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"If we can't conclusively demonstrate that indeed he is dead there will be those who say he is still out there," he said.
Even with released photos, there will be those who say he is still out there. I agree 100% with Obama on this one.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Secrecy carries a premium.
He should ask for a refund when he talks to his "allah"
That dude didn't believe in a god of any sort.
And curious - why did you put "allah" in quotes with no capital? He does exist as a character, no different than Jesus.
Would you write "jesus"?
Because I felt like it
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Bin Laden killed (Part 2)
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![[Linked Image from i26.tinypic.com]](http://i26.tinypic.com/30vow7m.jpg)