DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Do We Finally Have A Legit WR Corps?

I'm going out on a limb here by saying we do.

I really like the Little pick. Big, strong, aggressive with good hands is just what we needed. Knock is route running, but that can be learned and in this new system, he basically needs to be open where McCoy expects him to be, or where he can find him.

Robo and Mo-mass, now in their 3rd year, should flourish in the WCO, and it's time for them to get comfortable and step up their games. Consistency with a QB will help immensely.

Jordon Norwood is a legit slot guy that, IMHO, will surprise a lot of fans. I expect big things from him.

Either Mitchell or Haggerty may stick as a back-up.

I hope the Cribbs experiment is done. I believe it's very important to give these other guys the time on the field they need. He's still potentially an effective offensive weapon, but likely more useful out of the backfield in this system.

Sprinkle in Watson, Moore, Cameron, Hillis, Hardesty and Marecic, McCoy should have legitimate pass catching weapons all over the field, and should be able to mount a serious air attack, giving opposing defenses major problems covering. Given the number of capable pass catchers on the roster, under the new system, we should be able to create serious match-up problems for all of our opponents.



Thoughts?

With the lock out firmly in place along with a new scheme, I don't think this is doing our receivers any favors. I'm hoping in their 3rd year the light will come on for Robo and Momass but I have my doubts considering how the deck is stacked against them right now. The new guys are not going to offer much value this season if we don't have a training camp.

So, I'm not necessarily in your happy place, yet anyway.

I worry about the Little pick. I worry about his attitude and character. He also lacks any hint of top end speed. He is very, very raw, and may become something, but I don't expect much this year.

I do think that Massaquoi and Robiske will benefit from the change to the WCO. I think that they'll fit the offense well.

I have been saying all along that I expect Norwood to be a larger than expected part of our offense this year. He's not big or super fast, but he's quick, has been able to consistently get open against college competition, runs precise routes, and has exceptional hands.

I think that our RBs and TEs will help cover a multitude of sins in the receiving corp.

Mitchell is another one I wonder about. He's almost like Little ...... big, strong, limited experience ...... I almost think that anything we get from him is a bonus. That makes me worry even more about the Little pick. They are about the same size, but Mitchell is much faster. Both have really limited experience. Mitchell entered the draft after his junior year. Little entered the draft after playing his junior year, and missing his entire senior year to suspension. Mitchell had just over 700 yards and 4 TDs in his junior year. Little had just over 700 yards recieving and 5 TDs in his junior year.

The biggest difference is that we took Mitchell in the 6th ..... but spent a 2nd on Little.

I dont think the Cribbs experiment at receiver is close to being done. Cribbs is now in a system that is more suited for his skill set. I keep thinking of the play in which he messed up his toes. That quick little slant and wow. Those are the plays that he can run and be effective.

As for the topic, I like this group of receivers but the overall lack of speed is worrisome. It also worries me that Robo and Mo are so easily dislodged from their routes. In a quick run after catch system based on timing, you have to fight through any and all traffic and finish the route or its a pick six.

Now year 3 as a general rule of thought, is the year receivers begin to click. Robo began flashing at the end of the season. Mo has flashed brilliance since he has been here but has lacked consistency. I think this group of coaches along with Holmgren and Haskell could be huge in the development of these young players.

This is a big strong athletic group of weapons for Colt with pretty good hands. Hillis may have the best hands of anyone in our division and we all know what he can do with the ball in his hands. Throw in Watson, Cameron and Moore and you have even more weapons to go with the receivers.

Shurmur and Colt have weapons.

I thought Cribbs played pretty well last year up until his injury. He made quite a few clutch catches on third down--not to mention a couple td receptions.

I think our wr's are under-rated. And I don't think the "Cribbs experiment" is over. He will still see the field as a wide receiver.

I thought he had his best year yet as a wr last year--and he is definitely a fit at the position---albeit, not as an every down guy. But as a number 3 or 4, or occasionally in a package at number1 or number 2.

I truly think that our style of offense can make these receivers look better than they are in the mold of the patriots of the early part of the decade - which is funny that it happens now that Mangini is gone ...

But what I mean is that if these guys are able to rotate in and contribute at different points throughout games and the season, then we could be just fine for now with our receivers.

If we assume that we can get production somewhat as follows:
Little 600 yards
MoMass 600 yards
Robiskie 500 yards
Cribbs 400 Yards

Then some combination of Norwood / Haggerty / Mitchell to pull in another 400 and Hillis / Marecic / Vickers / Cameron / Moore / Watson another combined 1500 ... we are already at Colt being a 4000+ yards passer. Will he get there? I doubt it ... but even if he falls short of that goal and we are close, we will have a very good looking offense.

The funny thing is I just ballparked those figures, but I wrote Robiksi and Massaquoi combining for 1,100 ... last year they still combined for 793! ... not too much of a stretch.

Last year by the way Hillis, Moore, and Watson combined for 1,562 yards ... just for the three of them. I think they can add in the same relative production in an offense that features the passing game ...

I don't think we have any stars, but I think we have inserted a few more pieces to what could look like a top 1/2 offense if it's executed correclty (maybe around 12th to 16th is my guess ...) But these guys can make plays in this system if we have a quarterback that can deliver.

I have doubts.
We haven't had a true receiver weapon since BE and KW2, and by that I mean a guy who is a huge threat and draws a lot of attention.

Maybe Mitchell or (most likely Little) can be that guy, although if so it won't be right off the bat.
I dunno how MassQ and Robiskie will do in the WCO. Hopefully better, but while Robiskie made some strides in the latter half of 2010, I'm not sold on him. Mass Q and Robiskie don't seem to get separation a whole lot, but maybe they could with a big-play threat on the field with 'em.
Norwood and Haggerty I've seen almost nothing, don't know how they're progressed since hitting the NFL.

Cribbs is alright in some packages but I almost agree maybe the experiment should be over, or at least curtailed somewhat.
Colt will be they key here. If he can raise the level of play of his teammates in this new WCO, in other words find the open receiver and hit him in stride, it'll help immeasurably.

Little has amazing feet and plays the game fast.

Mitchell is nothing like Little. He is a long strider. Their games are as different as night and day.

WR has a HUGE question mark... but I like all the pieces we have..

definitely gonna be successful IMO..

I have douts as well. The new WCO is the best hope for the future. Cribbs is interesting until he has a better year than he has had at receiver thus far. Adequate receivers in an aggressive framework that runs coordinated routes, an above average QB who is allowed to be mobile, and an O line that can hold longer than the turnstiles we had at times, should improve all of our receivers. We did them way too few favors to be able to judge them fairly. I do not think we are more than OK at best at this time; we should be able to coach them up enough to move the sticks much better than last two years. If Jauron's guys can get themselves off the field more regularly, we should put up much improved numbers. If we score more TDs, we preserve some wins we should have had last year IMO. Better than we have seen, but remains to be seen if we are good enough and aggressive enough to be a real ongoing threat. Potential for corps at best.

IMO, we're not even close. I love Little and think that he may someday be a #1 WR, but he definitely isn't it yet, and neither MoMass or Robo is either. In fact, I don't think either Robo or MoMass is a legitimate #2 receiver. Take a look at teams around the NFL.

The Steelers have Hines Ward and Mike Wallace; the Ravens have Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Derrick Mason; the Chargers have Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd; the Jets have Santonio Holmes and Braylon Edwards; the Bills have Lee Evans and Steve Johnson; the Dolphins have Brandon Marshall, Brian Hartline and Davone Bess; the Colts have Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie and Anthony Gonzalez the Texans have Andre Johnson and Kevin Walter; the Titans have Kenny Britt and Nate Washington; the Giants have Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks; the Chiefs have Dwayne Bowe, Jon Baldwin and Dexter McCluster; the Cowboys have Miles Austin, Dez Bryant and Roy Williams; the Eagles have DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin and Jason Avant; the Lions have Calvin Johnson, Nate Burleson and Titus Young; the Packers have Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, James Jones and and Randall Cobb; the Vikings have Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin and Bernard Berrian; the Falcons have Roddy White, Julio Jones and Michael Jenkins; the Saints have Marques Colston, Devery Henderson, Lance Moore and Robert Meacham; the Buccaneers have Mike Williams, Arrellious Benn and Sammie Stroughter; and the Cardinals have Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Breaston and Early Doucet.

That is 20 teams who easily have better WR corps than we do. There are several others who I would consider at least as good as, but I chose not to include them. So no, I don't think the 21st best WR corps can be considered "legit"..

I will say this about Colt. I think he throws about the best swing passes and outlets as anyone in the game today. He also throws the slant in stride.

sideline throws need work although he now has people that will go up and get it. Fade routes need a lot of work.

Mid post routes (the homerun plays in this offense) have me curious. Early on he made those throws and made them look easy. They were tight. Latter half of the year, he had nothing on those throws and he floated them. Often floated over the head of the receiver into the chest of the defender.

crossing routes over 15, he should avoid. short cross i thought was in stride although "someone" never seemed to gain an inch on those routes lol.

To be fair, those 20 other teams didnt have Daboll calling the shots either lol

I'm thinking the truth is, how could we know?

We've not seen "FOR SURE" what our new system will be. Lots of conjecture about it, lots of guessing, but wouldn't it stand to reason that until we see what we are supposed to look like, that isn't impossible to tell if we havea legit WR Corp or not?

Nice post.

I was just going to say "No" but your reply was better.

We're still pathetic at WR.

Deep's post was a bit of an exaggeration. As a whole those WR corps are better than ours but he was also listing some average players as team's second and third options. MoMass would likely stud out as a 2 or 3 on some of those teams.

We need a legit #1. The rest of our guys - like many of the guys he listed - would look much better with a legit #1.

That's where we disagree. I think MoMass is far and away the team's most overrated player on this board. I think he's out of the league in 3 years.

Based on an untried season, you're probably right, but the potential exists, so you may actually be wrong. I'm hoping you are. And this year won't actually be a true test, but next year and the year after may show that we do have legit talent at the position. I like our chances with the current personnel in the new scheme, and I'm betting we continue to upgrade, especially developmentally.

J/C.....it's hard to say.....but right now I like the chances.



Both Mo and Robo are entering their 3rd year.

We now have a system....at least we hope that will get the ball out quickly...and both are decent in that role.



Little has some real potential. Has good enough speed and YAC'ability.


I'll say I don't think it's going to be a sore spot.....at least for now and compared to what we have had.



Let's see how it plays out.......but sure....it's legit....we have some talent.....maybe not great.....but you don't need great....if Colt steps up, he can make them better.



It's a two way street.....Colt can make them better and they can make him better.

I really don't think our WR core is legit. We have two recievers in Mass and Robo who struggle to get separation and a largely unproven rookie in Greg Little. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if we could add Santana Moss , Sidney Rice, or Santonio Holmes via FA.

I don't think that we do, until they prove it by their play on the field. Our only addition was Little and the other WRs have shown little to get excited about, except their inability to separate from Cornerbacks.

I do hope that you're right though.

No Emoticons were injured during the making of this post!

North Carolina coach certain Greg Little was a good catch by the Cleveland Browns in NFL draft
Published: Sunday, May 08, 2011, 8:08 PM Updated: Sunday, May 08, 2011, 8:09 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer


In just one full season as a wide receiver, Greg Little (here grabbing a pass against Pittsburgh in the 2009 Meineke Car Care Bowl) showed enough to make him a sleeper candidate for many NFL teams before the Browns took him in the second round last month.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns draft choice Greg Little's receivers coach at North Carolina is convinced that with enough time and effort, his former star can overcome his 2010 suspension and make an impact in the NFL as a rookie.

"Greg made it his mission to the get the NFL, and now that he's there, he's going to have to continue to work at it," said Charlie Williams. "How hard he works during the off-season and season will determine how long he stays in the league."

The Browns drafted Little with the 59th overall pick acquired in a trade with Atlanta. The Browns took Little despite his absence from the 2010 season for accepting agent benefits and then lying about it to the NCAA.

"By not playing last year, it's going to take some time for him to develop on that level," said Williams. "He's going to have to learn on the run in terms of the speed of the game and game contact. He'll have his bumps and bruises and struggles his first year, but he should be able to play right away. He'll correct whatever he needs to, and once he learns, he's going to be good."

Williams is convinced Little (6-2 1/2, 231) would have been mentioned in the same breath as premier receivers A.J. Green and Jones had he played his senior season. As a junior, he caught 62 passes for 724 yards and five touchdowns.

"If Greg had played his senior year, he would've had big numbers," said Williams. "I don't know where he would've stacked up with those two guys, but I truly believe if Greg had played his senior year, he would've had a chance to be a first-rounder."

Williams said Little is athletic enough to excel at running back or receiver, which he did in both high school and college. He also played some Tar Heels basketball as a freshman.

"We knew we could hand him the ball and he'd make the first guy miss," said Williams. "In a jump-ball situation, he's going to go up and get the ball and he usually wins. He can block, he's tough and he's hard to tackle."

As for his occasional drops, Williams has a simple diagnosis.
"It's just his concentration, which can be corrected," said Williams. "He's got big, strong hands."

The Tar Heels managed to land Little, a North Carolina prep star, after he had all but settled on an offer from Notre Dame. Signed to be a receiver, he was pressed into service at running back as a freshman because of injuries. He responded with 59 carries for 300 yards (5.1 average) and two TDs.

"Greg didn't mind because it got him on the field faster," said Williams. "We had the three amigos at receiver in Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Tate and Brooks Foster."

His sophomore year, Little was switched to receiver, but spent time at running back again because of injuries. He rushed 78 times for 334 yards and three TDs. He also returned kickoffs.

"Finally, we were able to move him to receiver full-time as a junior and he played well," said Williams.
Last year, Little was caught up in the agent scandal that rocked the program. He accepted jewelry and trips to the Bahamas and Miami from agents totaling $4,952 and was suspended for the year along with defensive linemen Robert Quinn and Marvin Austin.

"When Greg thought he was going only going to miss the first six games, he was okay," said Williams. "But when he realized it was the whole season, it totally crushed him. I know, because I stayed in touch with him the entire season."

Williams said Little couldn't have been more remorseful.
"He was sick about it because he never thought he could put himself in that position," said Williams. "I talked to his high school coach and other players on the team, and there's no doubt it really affected him."

What's more, the ordeal unfolded in Little's own backyard. "This is his town," said Williams. "He's a home-growner here. He was embarrassed about it because he had to face his high school coach, his parents, his family and friends."

Little responded by immersing in preparations for the NFL Combine in February. In addition to working out in North Carolina with an MMA fighter he met, he trained at Athletes' Performance Institute in Arizona.
"He worked out in Arizona with A.J. Green and Julio Jones and I think that really helped him," said Williams.
Little dazzled scouts and coaches at the combine, benching 225 pounds 27 times, recording a 40 1/2-inch vertical leap and running the 40 in 4.51. He also put on a show at his North Carolina Pro Day.
"It was his first time back with us on campus," said Williams. "When I watched him work that day with [quarterback] T.J. Yates, every ball that T.J. threw to him had me thinking of what might've been for the 2011 season."

The Browns brought Little to Cleveland for a visit. Tight ends coach Steve Hagen was on Butch Davis' staff in North Carolina during Little's career.
"Greg knows he'll be able to lean on Steve to help him out," said Williams.
The Browns' new West Coast offense is similar to the scheme Little experienced at North Carolina. Browns coach Pat Shurmur has already said Little has a chance to become a No. 1 receiver.
"Greg is a smart kid," said Williams. "Whatever offensive he's in, he's going to learn it. He was their first receiver picked, so I'm sure he'll play right away. He's going to have get in that playbook and learn the system. But it's time now for him to show what he can do."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/05/north_carolina_coach_certain_g.html

In one word. No.

MoMass - Currently he should be a rotational #4. His UPSIDE is as a #2. Him as a #1 is beyond laughable.

Robiskie - A nice bench possession receiver. He runs good routes. He has good hands. He couldn't get consistent separation in college. Good luck in the NFL. Him as a #2 is beyond laughable.

Cribbs - He's a wildcat RB (I say RB b/c all he ever does is run 99.9% of the time) and kick returner/gunner. Period. Reason #4,926 why that spiffy contract he "earned" was ridiculous as now we HAVE to play him at WR just to justify his salary. He was the best special teams player in the NFL. The best special teams player in the NFL doesn't deserve his current salary.

Little - Is he even really a WR? He's a RB. He's big, fast and physical. He runs horrid routes. He has an attitude. His hands are questionable. He's only played the position for 2 years. He hasn't played a football game in over a year. Hey what's not to like? Can not believe we got duped into drafting this schmuck. Al Davis took over Heckert's brain on this one.

Mitchell - He has the most potential of any WR on our roster IMO. He's also really raw. That being said, all the potential in the world doesn't mean much when we had one of the worst WR corps in the history of the NFL and he still couldn't get off the practice squad as a rookie. I'd love to give him a few years to develop and see what we end up with. My gut tells me it won't be much unfortunately.

Norwood/Haggerty/Williams - Practice Squad/camp fodder. Sometimes you mold them or find a hidden gem. 99 times out of 100 they are what everyone thought they were.

If we don't find a legit #1 (or #2 for that matter) in FA we'll have the worst WR corps in the NFL again this year.

I just find it hard to say these kids can't make it when I believe they have been in an impossible situation and in a scheme that didnt work. Hell 90% of the playcalling in the last 2 years made no sense.

Scheme and coaching has a lot to do with success. The WR coach we had didnt belong in the NFL. Daboll was no where near ready to be a coordinator.

They may succeed or fail but I believe they are in a much better position to find success.

They're going to put up better numbers as a group this year (if there is a year) no doubt.

Reason 1 - A full season of McCoy as the starter as opposed to the Delhomme's of the world last year.

Reason 2 - We're going to pass the football a HECK of a lot more this season. Sheer volume will skew their stats upward.

Don't be fooled into thinking either of these things means they are magically more successful or the new "scheme" or "coaching" has helped them.

I look for Mitchell to suprise a lot of people around here this season.

What? No mention of Ben Watson, he led the team in catches and receiving yards in 2010.
TE Ben Watson, 2009 29, 404 13.9 ....5 tds
TE Ben Watson, 2010 68, 763 11.2 ....3 tds

Haggerty and Norwood had 0 games played last year.

Demetrius Williams since coming to Cleveland played in 2 games with no catches.
Carlton Mitchell has 0 catches.

Here's some other.
Mo' Massaquoi, in 2009, 34, 624, 18.4 ... 3 tds
Mo' Massaquoi, in 2010, 36, 483, 13.4 ... 2 tds

Cribbs, in 2009, 20, 135, 6.8 .... 1 td
Cribbs in 2010, 23, 292, 12.7 .... 1 td

Robiskie, 2009, 7 106, 15.1 .... 0 tds
Robiskie, 2010, 29, 310, 10.7 ..... 3 tds

Stuckey, 2009 19, 198 10.4 .... 1 td
Stuckey, 2010, 40, 310 8.7 .... 0 tds

TE Evan Moore, 2009, 12, 158 13.2 .... 0 tds
TE Evan Moore, 2010, 16, 322 20.1 .... 1 td

TE Robert Royal, 2010, 5, 56, 11.2 .... 1 td

Rb Hillis, 2010, 61, 477, 7.8 .... 2 tds

If they do have a legitimate Wr corps then they need to get the ball to them more.

and if the QB can Find an Open Man, for a Catch in the End Zone, then you don't need Yards After the Catch!

If the QB can FOM for a CEZ then you don't need YAC!

Agreed! Crippler of Young Stats.

I'm just going to say that until they show it on the field, the answer is the same as it was last season: Not even close.

I also think our WR's success individually will stem from the rapport they build w/ Colt..

MoMass started the season off pretty hot when Delhomme was taking center.

When McCoy came in, he and Watson were best friends on the field, and then slowly Robiskie started getting a little shine.

It's gonna be up to Colt to get the ball to the WR's.. Their growth statistically, which a lot of people base success on, will be on the shoulders of the QB.

Until they actually do it, it's all still just pie-in-the-sky hopes and projections with really very little to base it upon.


You can cite projections of body types and speed and player styles and how they should fit into someone's guess of what our scheme is all day long, but the fact is simply this: there is nothing that has actually happened on the field to this point that suggests that the hope is warranted.


I truly hope to be incredibly surprised with something that resembles a competent and effective passing game - but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

We were #29 in passing last year, and #30 in receiving. I doubt MoMass or Robo will ever be a true #1, and Little is a huge question mark as a rookie. Our best chance at a legit WR corps is next year's draft.

To answer the question, no.

This links to the Mary Kay article that Jester already posted . . .

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ds-julio-jones/

Greg Little could end up being Cleveland’s Julio Jones

Posted by Mike Florio on May 8, 2011, 8:55 PM EDT

The Browns passed on the opportunity to pick receiver Julio Jones with the sixth overall selection in the draft, opting instead to slide down to No. 27 in exchange for an extra first-round pick, a second-round pick, and two fourth-round selections. With the second-round pick acquired from the Falcons, the Browns picked receiver Greg Little.

Though it remains to be seen whether and to what extent either Jones or Little will make an impact at the NFL level, the two players will be constantly compared (at least by us) for as long as Jones plays for the Falcons and Little plays for the Browns.

For Little, it may be too much to expect an immediate impact, given that he didn’t play in 2010 due to an NCAA suspension. “By not playing last year, it’s going to take some time for him to develop on that level,” North Carolina receivers coach Charlie Williams told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “He’s going to have to learn on the run in terms of the speed of the game and game contact. He’ll have his bumps and bruises and struggles his first year, but he should be able to play right away. He’ll correct whatever he needs to, and once he learns, he’s going to be good.”

In time, though, who knows?

“If Greg had played his senior year, he would’ve had big numbers,” Williams said. “I don’t know where he would’ve stacked up with those two guys [Jones and A.J. Green], but I truly believe if Greg had played his senior year, he would’ve had a chance to be a first-rounder.”

Regardless of how it all shakes out, Little’s performance in Cleveland will be a big factor in the overall assessment of the trade that allowed the Falcons to get Jones.