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Judge Doty to rule today on the owner's attempt at using TV revenue money as a war chest..........if he awards monetary damages to the players and rules that the owners violated the CBA in effect at the time--- this could liven things up. web page
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This thing is getting out of hand. Thanks for the read Shep
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As mediation approaches, gap between NFL, players possibly has grown Posted by Mike Florio on May 11, 2011, 11:44 PM EDT GoodellSmithCongress AP On March 11, the league and the players had narrowed their gap to $320 million for 2011, with the NFL offering a salary cap per team of $141 million and the NFLPA wanting $151 million per team. Nearly nine weeks later, with another round of mediation approaching, the gap apparently has gotten wider. The players are believed to have increased their number to $159 million per team, characterizing the March 11 figure as a discount aimed at getting a deal done. We’re told that the league believes the move is aimed at allowing the players to continue to pursue their litigation strategy, in the hopes of gaining even more leverage. Another problem arises from the reality that the total revenue pie for 2011 has begun to shrink, which would make it even harder to hit the $141 million per team the league offered in March. As a result, the normal incentive that would be created by the uncertainty of litigation simply doesn’t apply here, with each side opting to push for the ultimate leverage of a win in court in lieu of trying to work out a deal that works for each party. That’s possibly why the league won’t take the option of shutting down all business operations off the table. If the appeals court concludes that the lockout should be lifted, the NFL will be backed into a corner, forced to allow the players to return to work and get paid while they pursue even more leverage by attacking any rules that the NFL imposes regarding free agency and the draft. From the perspective of the owners, it may be better to simply close the doors until the players finally cry, “Uncle. PFT There is also a goo interview with Goodell on there.
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I'd like to see what would happen if a few owners met with a few players - without Goodell and Smith. There'd probably be a deal by the end of the day.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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As someone else said, I'd like to see someone get the owners and the player reps in a room, lock the door and say "you aren't leaving until you get your heads out of your collective butts." It wouldn't happen, but I'd still love to see it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
As someone else said, I'd like to see someone get the owners and the player reps in a room, lock the door and say "you aren't leaving until you get your heads out of your collective butts." It wouldn't happen, but I'd still love to see it.
There's no need for that until we get close to missing exhibition games. Until that day, there is no rush from either side. And I agree with them. This will come down to a game of chicken. I think the players are clearly winning...but the owners might be stubborn enough to lose games on purpose to break the players.
There seems to be a lot of talk about expanding free agency, losing the cap, and dropping the draft. Normally, I probably wouldn't care, since we have a rich owner.....but since we made that trade with Atlanta, it would suck to miss out on two first rounders next year.
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At this point I would not be upset if every single NFL player was fired, sent home, and told to never return. Teams could be rebuilt with college players and UDFA.
I could maybe keep anybody making less than a million per year. Everybody else can take a hike.
Another thing I was thinking the other day, I wonder how many endorsement contracts have opt out clauses if the player is no longer playing. That would hit some of the better-known players right in the wallet.
Started to leave the house today wearing one of my Browns hats. Took it off and put on a generic one.
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Have to admit I haven't been keeping up on this, so I went and read 2 pages of the part 4, I wonder if we will get to part 10. The more I think about it, there is no way the players can win, the best they can hope for is to shut down the NFL. If you side with the players, because you think the owners are asking for a bigger piece of the pie then thats not how I see it.
The players continued to ask for bigger pieces of the pie every year leading up to this as the last 20 years have come along and they did it through the slotting system of the 1st round of the draft demanding 10-15% more than the player in that slot the previous year.
Someone has said that the players have a unique skill set, I think that is bunk, because they don't include that the teams have a unique brand and I don't care what skillset you have you can't play a game by yourself.
The only way the players could ever win is if they bought a team, formed a brand and became more popular than the current teams we have.
Or, If they somehow found a way to be eligible to play for a college team for more than the 4 years of eligibility that exist and get paid for it too.
What if the players get everything they want, total free agency, unlimited contracts, plus billions from the nfl in court decisions, who win?
a select few of the Tom Brady's win about 1 20th of the league?
What else would happen, You don't get the Brand, you don't become the owner of a team, no matter what it would take, even if the teams had to disband and re-form outside of the United States and play the future best players of the world to play the best football, eventually the owners win.
If you don't remember, how much BETTER football was before free agency for ALL of the teams as far as level of play on the field, it was; and free agency benefited the players but it didn't benefit the fans, or the game.
Free agency, which it can be argued was inevitable and necessary has not proven how much the fans love the players, it has proven the oppisite.
If you don't think fans are more loyal to the Brand of the team than to player, then you need only think back to one year ago just around the draft, and ask yourself, How many fans of Eric Berry were there on this board 2 weeks before the draft? and How many fans of Eric Berry were there after he was picked by another team and the Browns went with someone else?
If Peyton Manning were to put on a Tennessee Titans uniform and Mark Sanchez were to go to the Colts, who would the fans in Indianapolis be rooting for?
No matter what the Owners are not going to lose, There are 33 teams and 1500 players? give or take.
The players have a unique skill set?
Well there are 150 new players every year? 10 %
Are there 3.3 new team brands every year?
If they players win everything, they can make some players richer, make many have better benefits, they can destroy the NFL, but they can't make themselves bigger than the game.
It is very hard to envision a solution, because the NFL player can be so many different types, even amoung active players, and then you have future and past players.
there are 53 roster spots, there are so many different jobs to an NFL team player by position,
It is what makes it the greatest game, its not just like basketball or baseball or hockey or Sumo wrestling, none of those have so many different types of players such as like the kicker, punter, longsnapper, rb, fb te wr qb, ol, dl, lb, ss, cb, kick coverage.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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MINNEAPOLIS -- Seeking more clout in their fight with the NFL, locked-out players asked a federal judge Thursday to make $4 billion in disputed broadcast revenue off limits to the league and to award them at least $707 million in damages, too.
U.S. District Judge David Doty took the request under advisement after a two-hour hearing that included arguments from attorneys for the league and the players.
Jeffrey Kessler, an attorney for the players, urged Doty to rule quickly on the request to put the $4 billion "war chest" in escrow because of the ongoing lockout. The players have argued that the league can make it through the work stoppage in part because it illegally secured that money by renegotiating TV contracts for 2011 that allows the NFL to get paid even if there are no games to televise.
Gregg Levy, an attorney for the league, said the players have no right to damages, and he accused them of "sandbagging and ambush."
Levy told reporters afterward the league never intended to finance a work stoppage with money from the networks. He said the players don't have the right to access the money, however, and balked at the proposal for an escrow arrangement.
"It would in effect give the players some entitlement to that money which we don't believe they are entitled to," Levy said.
The damages award alone could amount to a huge piece of leverage for the players in their fight with the NFL over the next collective bargaining agreement. And so could making the broadcast money off limits.
"I think that the owners predicated a lot of their strategy in having a revenue stream for 2011," said Marc Greenbaum, a labor law professor at Suffolk University Law School in Boston who is following the case. "If Judge Doty grants the players' request, an important part of their strategy is undermined."
None of the team owners or high-ranking league officials attended the hearing. Players Ben Leber, Chester Pitts and Steve Smith were present, as was the head of the NFL Players Association, DeMaurice Smith.
Leber is one of the 10 named plaintiffs in the federal antitrust lawsuit against the league pending before one of Doty's colleagues, U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson.
On March 1, 10 days before the lockout began, Doty ruled that the NFL failed to maximize revenues for the players, essentially leaving money on the table for the last two years to gain leverage in the labor fight. He described it as an "unconscionable advantage."
That order overruled a special master's decision in February to award $6.9 million in damages to the players for an extra Sunday night game given to NBC last season, but it left open the chance for the players to seek more damages over the objections of the league.
"We continue to believe that the special master got it right, that Judge Doty's findings did not give adequate deference to the special master and we are hopeful that Judge Doty will look at this record and see that the players' claims for damages and injunctive relief need not go beyond and should not go beyond what the special master ordered," Levy told reporters.
Thomas Heiden, another attorney for the players, accused the league of manipulating broadcasters to serve as banks for the lockout.
NFL Labor Negotiations and Lockout
The NFL lockout began on March 11, with no obvious end in sight. ESPN.com Topics keeps you up to date on all of the latest on the labor situation. More »
In addition to the $707 million, the players are also seeking unspecified damages for other alleged breaches, including digital and advertising rights. The extra NBC game, the players argued, was worth $39 million, which would entitle them to more than $15 million based on their 57.5 percent share of TV revenue in the CBA that expired March 11.
The players have also asked for at least three times the total amount of compensation awarded by the court.
The TV revenue fight is a separate battle from the court fight over the lockout, though Doty's decisions will almost surely influence the tack of attorneys for both sides.
Nelson ordered the lockout lifted on April 25, saying it is irreparably harming the players and their careers. The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has put the order on hold pending a June 3 hearing in St. Louis.
Eighth Circuit Court Clerk Michael Gans told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter Thursday he does not expect a ruling on stay until Monday at the earliest.
The NFL asked the appeals court for an expedited decision to keep the issue from lingering too far into the summer, but in the broadcast contracts case the league doesn't have such incentive and Levy made that clear to Doty.
"In our view it's most important that you get it right than you race to get it done," Levy said.
The players, meanwhile, asked for a quick injunction that would keep the $4 billion off limits to the league until the NFL's first work stoppage since 1987 is settled. Doty described that as a request to "put my thumb on the scale" and push along the process.
"They have illegally obtained a very large thumb that they have inserted in the players' eye," Kessler responded. And in concluding his remarks, Kessler waved his arms and pointed to Leber, Pitts and Smith, saying: "They're being hurt irreparably."
Later, Kessler stressed to reporters the importance to the players of putting the war chest in escrow: "That makes a difference to players, to fans, to communities right now. Damages, we can enjoy a little bit later if the court needs more time, but we do hope we'll get the injunction right away."
Doty has consistently ruled for the players since he began handling NFL labor cases in the late 1980s. He opened the hearing by chiding both sides for their inability to reach an agreement and achieve labor peace to ensure a 2011 season.
"I'll be honest with you. I didn't think we would have this hearing, and I'm a bit disappointed that we are having it," Doty said. "Judges don't like to make decisions in business matters like this. We like you to do it, but if we have to we will."
He also sounded sentimental when noting this could be the last time he presides over such a hearing since Nelson has the new case.
The 81-year-old Doty tried to keep the mood light, jokingly suggesting to Levy at one point during a disagreement that they should continue their discussion over a beer sometime. Doty also teased Kessler about his penchant for exceeding time limits on his arguments: "When he gets wound up like that, it's awfully hard to get him off the stage."
Information from The Associated Press
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Pay per View material, that. I would like to watch. Winners dictate terms. Settle this! Good stuff, Shep! 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Players are trying to build a lever here, it seems, just the type of thing that is needfully done by the realtive "underdog" in negotiations. Shep, this seems to be new ground to me; precedents and past practices are major things at the table. Does it seem to have a far-reaching implication to you? Suddenly, players are part of a pie and some form of time pressure is added to owners with money escrowed in effect. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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J/C...
Am I the only one that feels nothing about this whole situation? It's like I just don't care anymore.
The players are ridiculous. The owners are ridiculous.
Give me baseball and the up-coming college football season and I'll be fine.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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MLB has a CBA expiration in December next year that noone is talking about.
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And I'll worry about that if it happens in December. If MLB has learned nothing from their past - and what's going on now in football and will probably happen in the NBA - then they're even more ignorant than many people have said since the mid 90's.
What I'm surprisingly not worried at all about is this NFL thing and it's happening now.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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yeah, the NFL better be careful because it'll just cultivate a bunch more college football fans right at the time that college football is greatly expanding their television offerings.
of course, as a Buckeye fan, it's happening in a likely down year for the Bucks and possibly in a year where we could have a bowl ban. good times.
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Quote:
J/C...
Am I the only one that feels nothing about this whole situation? It's like I just don't care anymore.
The players are ridiculous. The owners are ridiculous.
Give me baseball and the up-coming college football season and I'll be fine.
Jackyl,..." I Stand Alone "
Believe me, you do not.
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Let me get this right, the players want to stop the league from using the money they negotiated for TV rights but want the league to pay out 707 million?
sounds like they are going to try and wait them out by stopping the league revenue stream and hoping to enhance thiers with 707 million.
1 problem I see.. The players number 1600 or so.. The league is made up of 32 owners. I think it's safe to say that each owner is worth more than 1 billon.
Collectively, the players would have 707 million + personal net worth.. Let's say an average of a 1/2 million, that would mean the players have about 5.7 or so billion.
The owners have a minimun of 32 billion.
Who's gonna out wait whom?
I know, neither number is correct, but the owners can wait, with or woithout the TV Revenue money.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Quote:
yeah, the NFL better be careful because it'll just cultivate a bunch more college football fans right at the time that college football is greatly expanding their television offerings.
of course, as a Buckeye fan, it's happening in a likely down year for the Bucks and possibly in a year where we could have a bowl ban. good times.
That really doesn't matter all that much..
First, colleges play on Saturday, the NFL on Sunday.
Each day has it's place for a reason.
Second, college tickets are usually harder to secure and more expensive when you start hunting the broker sites since colleges generally have more season ticket holders and fewer actual tickets to sell after they designate 10,000 for the student body, the 150 band members, a thousand or so per game to the alumni association, and the faculty and administration section.....so you aren't going to find many who would go to a NFL game switch to going to a college game.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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after reading Sheps latest article, I just feel like the greed of the players has no end. 57.5 % of tv revenue, they've had that for this entire last agreement?
No wonder there is a lockout, I don't know how the league survived, TV revemue is probably the #1 revenue to all of the NFL.
57.5% went to the players all this time, and all this time I've complained how they have a commercial break, after a score, before the extra point, after the kickoff and after the next possession goes to a punt.
Commercials, commercials, commercials, adevtisers and sponsors, and then they ask for personal seat licenses, and build stadiums full of luxory boxes just to stay profitable,
and the players average, how many ? 4 years in the league and then go off into the sunset taking a share of 57.5% of tv revenue, and leaving new draft picks waiting to get paid.
Who is looking out for the interests of the teams, the profitability of each franchise?
And that lawyer claims the fans are suffering because the players aren't getting paid? Please!!, and also that the players are irrepairably harmed?
They haven't even missed a game yet! if there were no lockout there would not be a game in May, or June!
I don't even like to read my own rants, but I can't beleive some of the things I"m reading. And I"m not against fair compensation for the players, but 57.5%! that's not even 50/50 and they can't play without the 32 franchise teams and get paid like this, just look at the xfl, usfl, and whatever they have now?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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From Sheps last article Quote:
Seeking more clout in their fight with the NFL, locked-out players asked a federal judge Thursday to make $4 billion in disputed broadcast revenue off limits to the league and to award them at least $707 million in damages, too.
Idiotic really.. as I said earlier,, it's safe to say that each owner is worth AT LEAST 1 billion dollars. ( very safe underestimate I think) So 32 Billion in worth and the players are sweating 4 billion.
The teams want to use that money, but they don't NEED to use that money. the teams don't' need a war chest,,, The owners ARE a war chest
#GMSTRONG
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I am sure they are worth that.....but a large part of that is the team.
While I doubt the owners are going to starve or miss car payments, I don't know all have all that much disposable, available cash.
Look at the Dodgers and the financial mess they are in at this point.
This economy hits all classes....a few bad or late choices and it doesn't take long to lose 30 or so mil in worth....you're a sharp guy....you know this.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I am sure they are worth that.....but a large part of that is the team.
While I doubt the owners are going to starve or miss car payments, I don't know all have all that much disposable, available cash.
Look at the Dodgers and the financial mess they are in at this point.
This economy hits all classes....a few bad or late choices and it doesn't take long to lose 30 or so mil in worth....you're a sharp guy....you know this.
The top four owners in net worth are Allen, Ross, Kroenke, Glazer. Jerry Jones is 5th with a net worth of 2 billion which the team makes up 1.7 of. So he's worth 300 million without the cowboys.
After looking over the list, none have less than a 150 million if you remove the team value.
Paul allen is with 12 billion so he's really the big exception to that rule. Dan Rooney is at the other end of the spectrum with a New Worth of 150 million without counting the Steelers.
No, none of them are going to miss a car payment or a meal. None are going to lose thier homes.
But my point was and remains, they can outlast the players.. .
Just a guess here, but the 700 or so million the players want as "damages" or whatever they are caling it, is to help them survive and stand toe to toe with the owners over the long haul.
Bottom line, the owners can outlast the the players.., which is all I was saying when it gets right down to it.
Again, just a guess... but it does seem reasonable
#GMSTRONG
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J/C
I have tried to see both sides, and I still come to the conclusion that the lawyers for the NFLPA are the ones who show the most greed.
The owners are billionaires, but that is what it takes to own an NFL team. They have costs that are not being reported. IMO Smith and the "association" is trying to use a form of class envy to sway fans and the media. The players are receiving a large chunk of the pie, but are not responsible for anything, even the "legacy" players who seem to be being left out by the NFLPA.
As much as I try to side with the players, I just can't. They are not equal partners, and the league, even if people think it can't, can be successful without any of them.
IMO all this money being asked for in damages, just means that a bunch of lawyers are looking for a huge payday, while the fan gets jack squat.
I have lost all respect for Brady, Manning , Fujita, and the rest of the greed filled lackeys being manipulated by the lawyers. Screw them all. I will never cheer for Fujita, and could care less if he ever dons a Browns uniform again.
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That's a big jump most wouldn't go directly from Brady, and Manning to Fujita. it made Me laugh.
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I chose Fujita because he is a Brown. But after reading press clippings from him about this situation, I have no respect for him at all. He is a "union" member before a football player in my eyes.
One other thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is that the big names will convince the lower level players to continue to back the "union" demands. These guys will take a beating while the multi-million dollar big names will be able to handle it.
IMO, Smith and many of the top "union" players are looking for a huge payday. Complete FA and no draft. I see this as an end to a great league, and the beginning of huge paydays for a select few, and agents and lawyers cashing in big time.
Wanting to see the "books" is a ploy. It would be used as a propaganda piece against the owners. The players have no right to see them, and I believe the lawyers want it in the open so they can create hate towards the owners. Much of the owners income comes from ventures other than the team they own, that is by no means any business of an "employee".
If I make a game this year, Fujita will be booed by me, I gaurantee it. His good guy persona has been ruined for me, and I see his true colors, and they are greedy green.
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Quote:
I chose Fujita because he is a Brown. But after reading press clippings from him about this situation, I have no respect for him at all. He is a "union" member before a football player in my eyes.
One other thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is that the big names will convince the lower level players to continue to back the "union" demands. These guys will take a beating while the multi-million dollar big names will be able to handle it.
IMO, Smith and many of the top "union" players are looking for a huge payday. Complete FA and no draft. I see this as an end to a great league, and the beginning of huge paydays for a select few, and agents and lawyers cashing in big time.
Wanting to see the "books" is a ploy. It would be used as a propaganda piece against the owners. The players have no right to see them, and I believe the lawyers want it in the open so they can create hate towards the owners. Much of the owners income comes from ventures other than the team they own, that is by no means any business of an "employee".
If I make a game this year, Fujita will be booed by me, I gaurantee it. His good guy persona has been ruined for me, and I see his true colors, and they are greedy green.
You seem to have a Vendetta against Union Members. But in my eyes they are men first and for you to say His good guy persona is ruined because he is a member and calling him greedy is a joke and shallow. Do you know how much he has given of himself and his money to Charity?? He gave half of his Superbowl check, half of his playoff earnings, he does countless hours of Charity events and recently held one here in Cleveland for the Littlest Hero's. He doesn't have to do any of that and for you to come on here and call him anything but a good member of the community strictly based on your obsessive anti union stance just makes you look little in comparison. You call him a union member first before a football player?? What does that make you? His true colors have shown thru and you try to tarnish them with a biased opinion based on football and not as a man.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 05/15/11 03:39 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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J/C
I have tried to see both sides, and I still come to the conclusion that the lawyers for the NFLPA are the ones who show the most greed.
The owners are billionaires, but that is what it takes to own an NFL team. They have costs that are not being reported. IMO Smith and the "association" is trying to use a form of class envy to sway fans and the media. The players are receiving a large chunk of the pie, but are not responsible for anything, even the "legacy" players who seem to be being left out by the NFLPA.
As much as I try to side with the players, I just can't. They are not equal partners, and the league, even if people think it can't, can be successful without any of them.
IMO all this money being asked for in damages, just means that a bunch of lawyers are looking for a huge payday, while the fan gets jack squat.
I have lost all respect for Brady, Manning , Fujita, and the rest of the greed filled lackeys being manipulated by the lawyers. Screw them all. I will never cheer for Fujita, and could care less if he ever dons a Browns uniform again.
My thoughts exactly. And anyone who thinks they can't just get rid of all the current players and restart is not seeing the big picture. 2-3 years of mediocre football might ensue, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of these players would "cross the line" so to speak as they have no other options for work, especially at the pay the currently make. If the league folds after that, most of the owners will still be billionaires but a majority of the players will be broke or at least not living they lifestyles they are used to.
I'd love it if the owners could pull a Regan and just fire all of the players and start over like the President did with the air traffic controllers. Tell the players that this is their last chance and if they don't agree they are gone and the league is starting over. I'm tired of this crap from both sides, but I am certainly on the owners side since it is their business and their dollars at risk for the investment.
edit
I don't have a vendetta against any of the players for this as you do however. They are just doing what they feel is right - if/when they come back I'll still cheer for them.
Last edited by ColumbusDawg; 05/15/11 03:41 PM.
#gmstrong
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The owners opened this can of worms by asking for such a huge give-back by the players. You wouldn't want to agree to it and neither do they.
In the end there will still be a draft. Count on it.
The players are no greedier than the owners. They were willing to stay with the CBA the way it was. It was the owners that opted out to try and get a markedly bigger payday.
Hate whoever you want but try to do it with a little logic. Your rant really showed none of that.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I want to know when the players will include their endorsement contracts into the pie?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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They already do..You ever buy Team Merchandise with a player's name on it? Who do you think gets that money?
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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The owners opened this can of worms by asking for such a huge give-back by the players. You wouldn't want to agree to it and neither do they.
In the end there will still be a draft. Count on it.
The players are no greedier than the owners. They were willing to stay with the CBA the way it was. It was the owners that opted out to try and get a markedly bigger payday.
Hate whoever you want but try to do it with a little logic. Your rant really showed none of that.
+9
Go Browns!!!
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I wish it were that simple...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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They already do..You ever buy Team Merchandise with a player's name on it? Who do you think gets that money?
Not sure...
Would love 2 c a breakdown of that one...
Who gets what???...If u think the PLAYER u r insane...
Go Browns!!!
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They already do..You ever buy Team Merchandise with a player's name on it? Who do you think gets that money?
I was thinking more like Peyton's FedEx commercials, Brady's credit card commercials, T.O. TV shows, etc.
You know, all the extra money certain players make off their football celebrity.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
The owners opened this can of worms by asking for such a huge give-back by the players. You wouldn't want to agree to it and neither do they.
In the end there will still be a draft. Count on it.
The players are no greedier than the owners. They were willing to stay with the CBA the way it was. It was the owners that opted out to try and get a markedly bigger payday.
Hate whoever you want but try to do it with a little logic. Your rant really showed none of that.
Outside of his rant about hating the players, his argument is very logical. The owners are in the drivers seat here no matter how you look at it IMO. I don't hate either of them; they each have their own beliefs and are going to fight for them. I understand that the players are upset - anytime money is trying to be taken away people are going to be upset. I personally think the owners are looking at sustainability 5, 10, 15 years down the road. The players are looking at tomorrow, and logically so, since they are in the league for such a short period of time. However, they are all compensated very well and will continue to be with whatever agreement is signed.
The players, outside of the elite ones, stand to lose a lot if there is no football. The owners also stand to lose a lot, but most can survive just fine without football. Some, such as the Rooney's and Wilson's, will likely take a huge hit and need football to be played more so than others but they will be fine.
I, as might be expected, side totally with the owners on this subject. They own the business and pay their "help" very fair wages. I'll be very saddened if there is no football but at least I'll have my Sunday's in the fall free.
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The players, outside of the elite ones, stand to lose a lot if there is no football. The owners also stand to lose a lot, but most can survive just fine without football. Some, such as the Rooney's and Wilson's, will likely take a huge hit and need football to be played more so than others but they will be fine.
Define "Fine"...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
The owners opened this can of worms by asking for such a huge give-back by the players. You wouldn't want to agree to it and neither do they.
In the end there will still be a draft. Count on it.
The players are no greedier than the owners. They were willing to stay with the CBA the way it was. It was the owners that opted out to try and get a markedly bigger payday.
Hate whoever you want but try to do it with a little logic. Your rant really showed none of that.
Outside of his rant about hating the players, his argument is very logical. The owners are in the drivers seat here no matter how you look at it IMO. I don't hate either of them; they each have their own beliefs and are going to fight for them. I understand that the players are upset - anytime money is trying to be taken away people are going to be upset. I personally think the owners are looking at sustainability 5, 10, 15 years down the road. The players are looking at tomorrow, and logically so, since they are in the league for such a short period of time. However, they are all compensated very well and will continue to be with whatever agreement is signed.
The players, outside of the elite ones, stand to lose a lot if there is no football. The owners also stand to lose a lot, but most can survive just fine without football. Some, such as the Rooney's and Wilson's, will likely take a huge hit and need football to be played more so than others but they will be fine.
I, as might be expected, side totally with the owners on this subject. They own the business and pay their "help" very fair wages. I'll be very saddened if there is no football but at least I'll have my Sunday's in the fall free.
Pretty good post,...basically I agree with all of it.
"Taking away" money from the players in this bubble of a problem comes nowhere close to say, reducing everyone at Kohl's hourly rate by a buck. Blue collar America just doesn't want to hear about a millionaire ballplayer not making enough or having to take a cut.
NFL football WILL survive, as it always has. The players can change, as they always DO every 3-4 years. I won't care a bit if they all get fired.
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Most will still be billionaires and have other businesses and investments. They will start another league more than likely IMO. I cannot define "fine" from a billionaire point of view, but their lifestyles will likely not change all that much. Of course some owners will suffer more than others but none will be in the poor house. The players? Plenty of them will end up in the poor house - a lot of them already do and they are working! Many do not have other skills to find other jobs. The owners are for the most part a group of very, very successful businessmen. They more than likely possess the ability and drive to remain successful even without the NFL. I of course could be wrong but I'd put my money on the owners being better off without the league than the players. And that is why they are in the drivers seat with negotiations, as they should be, since they own the teams and put all of their money at risk to sustain a football team.
I know that my view is not the popular one and I'm fine with that. I want football as much as anyone and I still do think they will play once the players realize they have no real power in these negotiations. There are 1500 other guys out there willing to play this game for good money - I'd suspect many of the current players would play under a new league once they realized they would need to get a job that likely would pay a lot less. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think people would come back and the league would be as strong as ever in 2-3 years with just as good of competition.
Again, just my opinion, and I do see the other sides point of view but I'm going to side with the business owner until I can see they are deliberately screwing over thier employees. I just don't see that they are doing that.
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Quote:
Quote:
They already do..You ever buy Team Merchandise with a player's name on it? Who do you think gets that money?
Not sure...
Would love 2 c a breakdown of that one...
Who gets what???...If u think the PLAYER u r insane...
No...I guess that means I am sane..I don't think the players do.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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They own the business and pay their "help" very fair wages.
This sums up my thoughts on the subject. It seems to me the players are wanting an "entertainer" type arrangement. Without the NFL, they'd be nowhere, whereas an actor, comedian, musician etc. are not dependant on a sole entity like the NFL. They are employees of an oraganization and should be treated as such.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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