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The principal said it was appalling! I'll bet she then went home and had chicken, beef or pork for dinner. I guess it's ok if somebody else does the killing and no one has to see it. People are so far removed from where their sustenance originates it's laughable. I'm not at all for slaughtering livestock for the shock factor or as "a spectacle", but animals must die for non-vegetarian humans to survive. foxny (NewsCore) - WELLSBURG, W. Va. -- Two students at a West Virginia high school are accused of killing a chicken outside a classroom with the intention of cooking and eating it, WTOV-TV reported late Friday. Brooke High School Superintendent Kathy Kidder confirmed to the station that two male students, a junior and a senior, were involved in the incident. The two students reportedly asked the school's principal for permission to hold a cookout at the school and were denied. The students then asked another school official, who approved the cookout not knowing that the principal had forbidden it. One of the students, whose family raises chickens at home, brought two live chickens to the school Thursday, Kidder said. He and the other student left a class and decapitated one of the chickens with a knife on the lawn outside a classroom. A teacher inside the classroom saw the two students kill the chicken and went outside to stop them before they killed the second chicken, the report said. "I thought it was appalling," the station quoted Kidder as saying. "I know some people get their chicken in that manner, but not as a spectacle." One of the students, in a statement to school officials, said he planned to cook the chickens on a grill outside the school. Kidder said the grill was removed later Thursday. The students were immediately disciplined, Kidder said. School officials are investigating the incident.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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2 students disregarded a denial of permission from the principal and also brought a knife onto school grounds. despite the way the journalist is trying to frame this event, those are the relevant facts.
#gmstrong
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I have a number of thoughts here.
First, many people do NOT know how the beef they eat, chicken, etc, dies. I cannot provide a link, but I read a "letter to the editor" a while back. In this particular letter, the author was disgruntled about hunters - killing animals. And I quote: "I don't know why people have to shoot innocent animals. Why don't they just go to the grocery store and buy the meat, so no animals get hurt."
Secondly, has anyone watched videos of slaughter houses? Be they cattle, chicken, etc? Fairly gruesome when you get down to it.
Thirdly, if these kids asked permission from the principal, and he/she said no, the kids were in the wrong. UNLESS the person that said yes was the superintendent.
It sounds to me like they did it more for the effect.
As most on here know - I am totally NOT against killing animals to eat. (or, in the case of rodents, killing them because they are there).
From this article though, it does seem as though the kids were more interested in the effect that killing chickens would have, as opposed to just wanting to eat. Kill them at home, bring them in - no problem is my guess.
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People are so far removed from where their sustenance originates it's laughable.
Yep. Absolutely.
However, I'm not sure I want teenagers holding knives and killing things for show regardless of what the proclaimed purpose was. Hard to imagine a scenario where it's appropriate for these kids to be killing things on the school grounds when classes are going on. They're going to have a cookout?! How about going to math class?
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I bet 90% of the kids at Wellsburg HS have seen some kind of animal, be it chicken, rabbit, deer, whatever.. gutted and cleaned. The kids need to be disciplined for going behind the principals back and maybe a little for the shock value of killing the chicken on site (which was unnecessary and I assume means somebody had a decent size knife, which I also assume is against the rules)... the actual act of decapitating a chicken should really be no big deal.
yebat' Putin
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I think its quite reasonable to ask why the students did the killing at school and not at home.
If they had killed the chickens at home, and brought them in; then I doubt there would much controversy. And I don't see how killing the chickens at home would have taken anything away from their bbq. It would have probably been a lot easier to transport two dead chickens, then two live chickens.
This leaves me questioning the motives of the two teens. The fact that they are teenagers, and I often view teenagers with a healthy amount of contempt, probably leaves me questioning their motives a little bit more than if we were discussing mature adults.
IMO....these two guys wanted to cause a scene, they wanted to disturb their classmates and teachers, and above all, they wanted to provoke a reaction.
They did just that. And now they are being disciplined. I see no problem with this. Far be it from me to attempt to try to differentiate what is appropriate from inappropriate---but I think that they could have, and should have, killed these animals at home.
Doing it at school was inappropriate.
I have no problem with killing animals for food. But I do have a problem with two punk kids making a spectacle of the killing in an effort to provoke a reaction---and I believe that there is ample reasoning to suggest that this is precisely what they were doing.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I fully realize what the kids did was wrong, I didn't intend for this thread to go in this direction (although I should have seen that it would). The points that I am trying to make are that the principal said the act of killing the chicken was appalling, and that the killing of animals is necessary for us to survive.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Ignore the decap,...focus on the knife. Whatever the district's policy on weapons is, enforce it. End of this non-story.
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Quote:
"I thought it was appalling," the station quoted Kidder as saying. "I know some people get their chicken in that manner, but not as a spectacle."
Yeah, this quote does indicate some aloofness...
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Quote:
I fully realize what the kids did was wrong, I didn't intend for this thread to go in this direction (although I should have seen that it would). The points that I am trying to make are that the principal said the act of killing the chicken was appalling, and that the killing of animals is necessary for us to survive.
And the principal should realize that, especially in rural W. V. - these kids either kill a lot of their meat, or watch it be killed. To call it appalling was stupid.
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And the principal should realize that, especially in rural W. V. - these kids either kill a lot of their meat, or watch it be killed. To call it appalling was stupid.
A lot of these kids are probably having sex too, doesn't mean they should do it on the lawn during school. People are focused on the word appalling.. maybe "inappropriate" would have been a better word.. but I can also see where seeing the chickens head, blood and guts on the school lawn would also be appalling. It's like the old saying, "A time and a place for everything".. and during school on the lawn is neither the time nor the place to be decapitating and gutting chickens.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
And the principal should realize that, especially in rural W. V. - these kids either kill a lot of their meat, or watch it be killed. To call it appalling was stupid.
A lot of these kids are probably having sex too, doesn't mean they should do it on the lawn during school. People are focused on the word appalling.. maybe "inappropriate" would have been a better word.. but I can also see where seeing the chickens head, blood and guts on the school lawn would also be appalling. It's like the old saying, "A time and a place for everything".. and during school on the lawn is neither the time nor the place to be decapitating and gutting chickens.
Perhaps you missed my first post on this subject, in this thread?
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"I thought it was appalling," the station quoted Kidder as saying. "I know some people get their chicken in that manner, but not as a spectacle." Shes right, their usually eloping 
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Quote:
2 students disregarded a denial of permission from the principal and also brought a knife onto school grounds. despite the way the journalist is trying to frame this event, those are the relevant facts.
I agree.
That said, they shouldn't get kicked out of school or face any legal action for weapons possession.
I could straighten these punks out with 3 swats of a wooden paddle and a couple of weeks detention.
It would go like this:
Ok son, why are you here?
Sir, I am here because I disobeyed rules, Sir.
Swat!
Ok son, why are you here?
Sir, I am here because I disobeyed rules, Sir.
Swat!
Ok son, why are you here?
Sir, I am here because I disobeyed rules, Sir.
Swat!
Ok son, now you report to my office at 3PM for the next two weeks...8am on Saturdays. Any questions??
Sir,no Sir.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree, 3 swats is about right. If they use my old 9th grade English teacher, it would be exactly right. Man those suckers stung!
#GMSTRONG
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I knew a kid in high school who got suspended because he got caught CHOKING his chicken in the bathroom.
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I cannot provide a link, but I read a "letter to the editor" a while back. In this particular letter, the author was disgruntled about hunters - killing animals. And I quote: "I don't know why people have to shoot innocent animals. Why don't they just go to the grocery store and buy the meat, so no animals get hurt."
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Facts:
1) students brought live animals onto school grounds. Usually not permitted without prior permission.
2) student was denied permission by principle to have a cookout
3) student brought a knife onto school grounds
4) student(s) had a grill on school ground for the non-approved cookout. I'm sure there is something about this in the fire-code.
This story should not even be about the killing of the chicken, but about the disregard for authority and laws the students have.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Softie! Give 'em 6 months in the electric chair. Lasting impression, that. But for manual behavior modification, yours works too.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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j/c
I agree with most that the problem here is the kids ignoring the rules. That's just the way it is.
But, as to how animals are killed for food, I will say this. I do not hunt and it is very likely that I never will. It's just not my thing. I have a total soft spot for animals.
But, just as I don't want people telling me I HAVE to hunt, I will never tell someone they shouldn't hunt. Like I said, it's just not my thing.
And, I remember an old saying about laws and sausages (and probably about most other food we eat). We want them, but we don't want to see how they're made.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
But, just as I don't want people telling me I HAVE to hunt, I will never tell someone they shouldn't hunt. Like I said, it's just not my thing.
And most hunters - MOST, not all - are aware of their abilities. I, for one, don't take shots that I don't have more than a good chance of killing the animal with one shot.
I was never a hunter up until about 8 or 9 years ago. I was a shooter - at targets. But a neighbor of mine gave me some canned venison. After about 6 months, my wife finally made it - for me and my bro in law. She was making burritos - my bro in law and I got the venison, she made beef for her and her sister. (our kids weren't eating that kind of stuff at the time).
I was a bit wary. Until I had a bite. Dear Lord Jesus, you want to talk about good????? After dinner I told my wife "I'm going deer hunting next year. That was AWESOME!"
Now, most of the meat we eat - not all - is venison. We'll still buy burgers, we still get steaks. But we also eat venison steaks. Any spaghetti, lasagna, taco, stew, chili, etc etc - is venison.
I would never tell anyone they had to hunt. But like you, I don't want someone telling me I can't, or shouldn't hunt.
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Did any one else on the board have a pocket knife when you where young ?? I bet I carried a Old Timer the whole time I was in school ... I know times they have a changed , but shoot ! ... I'm just saying ! 
Last edited by waterdawg; 05/25/11 05:11 PM.
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Quote:
j/c
I agree with most that the problem here is the kids ignoring the rules. That's just the way it is.
But, as to how animals are killed for food, I will say this. I do not hunt and it is very likely that I never will. It's just not my thing. I have a total soft spot for animals.
But, just as I don't want people telling me I HAVE to hunt, I will never tell someone they shouldn't hunt. Like I said, it's just not my thing.
And, I remember an old saying about laws and sausages (and probably about most other food we eat). We want them, but we don't want to see how they're made.
But I'll bet $5 to your 2 donuts you enjoy a nice cut of beef, hog, or chicken from time to time.
Those "hunted" animals stand a better chance at survival then do those raised for the stockyard.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Both kids should be expelled.
I don't care where you live, you bring a KNIFE onto school property you are expelled.
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First of all, if they asked permission and were denied, they shouldn't have done it.
Secondly, I worked for a pork producing factory, and I've seen first hand how the animals are killed. The hogs were brought in on trucks, and put in large pens to relax. There was water to drink, sprinklers to cool them, and enough room to move around. The secret to good tasting meat: stressed animals release chemicals into their muscles that doesn't taste good.
The hogs were left in the pens for 4-6 hours, and then they are corraled into the carrosel area. The guys that "push" the hogs into the carrosel use "slappers", which are two plastic paddles that make noise when smacked on the floor. They do not usually smack the hogs with the slapper, unless the hogs are very stubborn.
The hogs are forced into the carrosel by moving doors and walls. The carrosel drops into a pit that is filled with carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide is to render the hogs unconscious. When the hogs are dropped from the carrosel, they are tatooed (to identify the lot), and hung by their rear legs on a conveyor. They are then carried by the conveyor to the pig sticker, which is a guy who is trained to stick them in the jugular with a very sharp knife. From their, they continue on the conveyor to be processed. The motto in the processing plant was, "Everything but the squeal", as every part of the hog was used.
In the time I worked at this plant (as a network engineer), I never saw a single hog abused. The plant processed about 8000 hogs a day, and one of the larger plants processed 32,000 a day. The process is similar for chickens, cattle, and other domestic animals.
I hope everyone enjoyed their brief education in meat processing.
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Quote:
Both kids should be expelled.
I don't care where you live, you bring a KNIFE onto school property you are expelled.
Its a sad day in America when this is our attitude.
I carried a pocket knife from fourth grade until 8th grade when I whipped it out to cut a piece of string we were using in a science class and the teacher completely flipped out......I got in-school suspension--and they tried to have me expelled.
It was ridiculous. My parents were ticked off..they had bought me the knife as a Christmas present and felt that I was old enough to be responsible and carry a tool around with me.
I also got suspended when I explained to the class how to use powder scraped off match-heads to fuel a projectile. They tried to expel me for that---they said I was caught with bomb-making plans....
We live in a really screwed up time. People have no sense whatsoever. Everyone wants to turn everything into a federal case. And anything that has some possibility to hurt someone at some point under a specific circumstance--it gets blown out of proportion.
Throwing a kid outta school for having a pocket knife is ridiculous. Where are we at in society when we can't trust a 12 year old with a pocket knife...
At one point in time, kids took pride in being able to carry around a knife, it meant that you were becoming responsible, and it gave you a tool at hand that could be used many different ways to get things done.
Now people here about a kid with a knife and all they think about is other kids or adults getting stabbed.
That has become the expectation. We expect people to do bad things anymore. People even look at firearms like they are meant to kill people--this is not true. A firearm is a tool, it has plenty of uses. But anymore, its synonymous with murder.
Pretty sad society we live in......
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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All Pro
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Meh, principal says no, ask someone else who says yes. Mom says no, ask Dad.
Knife or grill (fire) on school grounds, we did it all the time in high school, mostly to raise money for school activities. We would grab knives from the school cafeteria. Gasp, real knives right in the school!
Killing a live chicken, please. If you eat chicken, you should clean a live one before you are 12. Meat doesn't naturally come on styrofoam trays in clear wrap. I grew up with deer hanging from the rafters in the garage, and the chickens at my Aunt's farm. I still hunt and fish, and eat it. I call it food.
These milquetoasts would complain if you boiled a live lobster or steamed a clam.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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jc.
Most agree that the knife and grill are stupid things to get in a fuss over, BUT since we were all younger they made rules against it, and you can't pick and choose which rules you follow.
If your caught breaking the rule, expect and accept the consequences or follow the rule to begin with.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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you can't pick and choose which rules you follow.
Actually, you can pick and choose which rules you follow. And its not a bad thing either. Civil Disobedience proved to be a boon to the civil rights movements in the 60's, and various other uprisings across teh globe---even today.
if rules aren't right---then they aren't right----and disobedience, on a large enough scale opens the door to dialogue.
I see way to much of this attitude where, "those are the rules, so follow them or face the consequences." Or else its, "Its illegal, get over it."
Nothing the Nazi's did was illegal in Nazi Germany.
Slavery wasn't illegal either.
Injustice will always exist in the world, and people need to stand up against it when they can. It can start with just a few, and grow to become a force; civil disobedience is a tried and true method for changing the "rules."
Sorry FLA---not directed at you. I just get sick of the attitude that's often espoused on here that advocates strict adherence to laws without any dialogue on how just they are.
I know I am off topic....but this stuff really grinds my gears.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
Its a sad day in America when this is our attitude.
I carried a pocket knife from fourth grade until 8th grade when I whipped it out to cut a piece of string we were using in a science class and the teacher completely flipped out......I got in-school suspension--and they tried to have me expelled.
That was then and this is now. Since Columbine weapons are NOT allowed on school grounds. There is a ZERO tolerance policy for a reason. Since they tried to have you expelled you are aware now that taking knives to school is grounds for expulsion.
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It was ridiculous. My parents were ticked off..they had bought me the knife as a Christmas present and felt that I was old enough to be responsible and carry a tool around with me.
Not on school grounds.
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I also got suspended when I explained to the class how to use powder scraped off match-heads to fuel a projectile. They tried to expel me for that---they said I was caught with bomb-making plans....
Should have been expelled for that. That is bomb-making plans.
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We live in a really screwed up time. People have no sense whatsoever. Everyone wants to turn everything into a federal case. And anything that has some possibility to hurt someone at some point under a specific circumstance--it gets blown out of proportion.
No, it is not about "no sense". It is about having sense. You do NOT take weapons to school. HELLO!!! 
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Throwing a kid outta school for having a pocket knife is ridiculous. Where are we at in society when we can't trust a 12 year old with a pocket knife...
You can't trust a 12 year old with a pocket knife. Just like you can't trust a 17 year old with an uzi. Just like you can't trust a 17 year old with a shotgun. They can/will use them. Just ask Eric Harris and Dylon Klebold. Back to your "gunpowder display". In the minds of somebody that wants to be a copycat of those two above individuals do you think your little display would help them? If they were too stupid to know how to create a pipe bomb do you think your display could give them a nudge in the direction on how to make one? I think so.
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At one point in time, kids took pride in being able to carry around a knife, it meant that you were becoming responsible, and it gave you a tool at hand that could be used many different ways to get things done.
Yes, that time is gone. Just like in the past pilots were perfectly fine with leaving the cockpit door unlocked during a flight. Somebody ruined that for them didn't they? There also was a time when you could leave your front door unlocked. Not anymore!
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Now people here about a kid with a knife and all they think about is other kids or adults getting stabbed.
Yes, because it leaves the opportunity. If it is ok for this kid to bring a knife to school to kill a chicken. Is it ok for a student to bring a rifle to kill a deer on school grounds? No, it is not. Sure, it is a slight leap. But you have to draw the line somewhere. A knife can be used as a weapon. Students are in school to learn. Not to learn how to decapitate chickens. If students in rural communities want to learn to decapitate chickens that is not for the school to teach them. That is for their parents.
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Quote:
Quote:
you can't pick and choose which rules you follow.
Actually, you can pick and choose which rules you follow.
Which totally disregarded my next sentence.
"If your caught breaking the rule, expect and accept the consequences or follow the rule to begin with. "
Even if the masses disagree, getting the rules changed usually means someone will be punished initially, until change is forced.
2 high school students hardly makes up masses though, or pushing for change.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Since Columbine weapons are NOT allowed on school grounds. There is a ZERO tolerance policy for a reason.
And the reason is because we make knee-jerk rules to cover 300,000,000 people because a handful of people went off and did something really stupid. This is how our rights are eroded, when we start making laws to cover every possible exception to the bigger rule, which is that you can't assault somebody at school. When we start making rules against every possible means by which you can assualt somebody, then you go to far...
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No, it is not about "no sense". It is about having sense. You do NOT take weapons to school. HELLO!!!
A pocket knife isn't a weapon, it's a tool. And in the mind of the scared, anything is a weapon.. a piece of lumber, a nail, a wrench...
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Yes, that time is gone. Just like in the past pilots were perfectly fine with leaving the cockpit door unlocked during a flight. Somebody ruined that for them didn't they?
Yes, and now you can't take nail clippers on a plane or more than 6 ounces of shampoo.. another perfect example of taking a common sense idea like "we need to protect the flight crew" and turning it into "Let's be irrationally afraid of everything" ...
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If students in rural communities want to learn to decapitate chickens that is not for the school to teach them. That is for their parents.
Right, I forgot. Schools are there to educate on the important things like when and how to use a condom.. and how to care for a crying doll which simulates parenthood.. and how to make a plastic dish.. why you should change all your light bulbs to earth friendly halogen bulbs... how to make a stuffed pillow that looks like a soccer ball... how to bake a pizza... and how to do the long jump.. can't have the schools teach anything as stupid as survival skills related to FEEDING YOURSELF in the event of an emergency.  That's for the parents... 
yebat' Putin
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,150 |
Quote:
You can't trust a 12 year old with a pocket knife. Just like you can't trust a 17 year old with an uzi. Just like you can't trust a 17 year old with a shotgun. They can/will use them.
Lol. I trust my 13yo with firearms (including handguns), and he can/will use them.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658 |
These are the types of knee jerk over-reactions that qualify to make up TSA rules. No one will be able to hijack an aircraft with a box cutter or pocket knife again. The days of assuming that if you cooperate with the hijackers, you'll just land safely in Cuba are over. Now the assumption is everyone on the plane is dead if you don't kill the hijackers first.
Plenty of 17 year olds are responsible with shotguns. Over 99% of them. Two screwballs at Columbine don't change it. That is as silly as saying that since the shooter at Ft. Hood was a marine, the marines shouldn't have weapons.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,830
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,830 |
The problem as I see it is educators are teachers, but they aren't thinkers.
Each case carries it's own consequences IMO.
Blanket rules suck.
The United Negro College Funds slogan for years was, " A mind is terrible thing to waste."
I agree.
I wonder how many minds we have wasted and twisted by kicking some kid out of school because a goofy blanket rules??
All cases have mitigating factors.
Maybe we need to start teaching a course in common sense because it seems we lack much of that in this country.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
The problem as I see it is educators are teachers, but they aren't thinkers.
Each case carries it's own consequences IMO.
Blanket rules suck.
I believe teachers are perfectly fine and capable thinkers.. I just think they have that ability to use common sense and apply good sound logic to problems is sucked out by school boards/administrations/everybody else that fears if they are allowed to apply common sense that somebody might not get exactly the same punishment as somebody else for a similar offense and then everybody will get sued because somebody will swear one got was discriminated against because its a girl or because he wears glasses or because she is overweight or because he is a Hindu.....
Yes, you are correct.. zero tolerance policies and blanket rules and punishments suck.
yebat' Putin
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